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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: The end goal  (Read 14433 times)

StarGibbon

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2017, 03:41:55 PM »

I'd kinda hope the end version of SS has a 'timer'. Get ready by cycle xxx, when the Domain return. Something akin to that. Sure, be my guest continuing after that happens if you push through.

The game already has a time limit of sorts.  If you view hitting the level cap as more or less the "end" of the current game, and you on average level up after every major engagement, then the current game has a time limit of 39 major battles, give or take.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 04:45:58 PM by StarGibbon »
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Megas

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 04:32:20 PM »

The problem with level cap as endgame is you may reach it before you can fight enemy capitals in bounties or acquire one yourself.  I had triple or more XP than the level cap before I could afford the provisions I need to explore far from core worlds and search for Remnants to farm and battlestations to kill.
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StarGibbon

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2017, 04:40:26 PM »

The problem with level cap as endgame is you may reach it before you can fight enemy capitals in bounties or acquire one yourself.  I had triple or more XP than the level cap before I could afford the provisions I need to explore far from core worlds and search for Remnants to farm and battlestations to kill.


I don't disagree, which is why the game needs long terms goals that will provide appeal beyond just leveling up a character, as well as tweaks to the leveling curve.  In the game now though, I dont play beyond level cap, as there's no longer any sense of progression, and steamrolling the AI with capital ships is only fun for a battle or two.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 04:46:37 PM by StarGibbon »
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Megas

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2017, 04:54:54 PM »

For me, steamrolling fleets with capitals is the fun part of the game.  Everything else before that is boring tutorial or survivalist mode.  I just wish I had more skill points so I can have some extra for fun stuff (like Helmsmanship) instead of spending it all on the very best skills (generally fleetwide buffs or QoL features).  I give up Surveying and Navigation so I have a chance to maybe get enough of the fun combat stuff with a limited 42 point budget.
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StarGibbon

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 05:04:54 PM »

  I had triple or more XP than the level cap before I could afford the provisions I need to explore far from core worlds and search for Remnants to farm and battlestations to kill.


On this specific point, though, it seems to me you're rolling with too big of a fleet if you cant afford to buy the supplies you need to travel at range. I have a dedicated battlefleet with a paragon in tow, sufficient to defeat any single fleet outside of getting ganked by multiple fleets (which should virtually never happen to the player with S-burn), and I can travel to any point on the map for 1200 fuel round trip, which is easily supported by 3 lowly Drams.  I don't even need to abuse Sindria for gas.

In my experience, outside of the early game where a player may not have access to a tanker yet, if you're actually having trouble affording or even finding enough fuel/supply to get your fleet to destinations, it means you're rolling with a bloated, overly generalized fleet. Figure out what you want your fleet to do specifically, and put anything superfluous into storage.
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StarGibbon

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2017, 05:06:00 PM »

For me, steamrolling fleets with capitals is the fun part of the game.  Everything else before that is boring tutorial or survivalist mode.  I just wish I had more skill points so I can have some extra for fun stuff (like Helmsmanship) instead of spending it all on the very best skills (generally fleetwide buffs or QoL features).  I give up Surveying and Navigation so I have a chance to maybe get enough of the fun combat stuff with a limited 42 point budget.

To each their own, but outside of battlestations the game no longer poses any significant challenge with access to fully outfitted capital ships.
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NinjaPirate

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2017, 05:56:06 PM »

Quote from: Starsector main page
   Upcoming Features

    Claim new worlds, build outposts and industry
    Determine the fate of the Sector by your actions


As to what form those will take I can't say, but it's clear the game intends to add long term goals.

Similar to the Nexcrelin mod.  Or Mount and Blade in space.
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StarGibbon

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2017, 06:03:23 PM »

Quote from: Starsector main page
   Upcoming Features

    Claim new worlds, build outposts and industry
    Determine the fate of the Sector by your actions


As to what form those will take I can't say, but it's clear the game intends to add long term goals.


Similar to the Nexcrelin mod.  Or Mount and Blade in space.

Or Sid Meier's Pirates :)

Personally, Im hoping more for a 2d version of the egosoft X games, but I'll probably need mods for that. Poor Alex is just one guy.
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Megas

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2017, 07:31:24 PM »

@ StarGibbon:  Or stick with what works.  My current game is my first 0.8 game.  I did not know of all of the gameplay changes at the time.  I did what I knew best, and adapted as I played.  Just because I might be able to kill things with a smaller fleet at greater risk does not mean I want to do it.

Quote
To each their own, but outside of battlestations the game no longer poses any significant challenge with access to fully outfitted capital ships.
I do not want a challenge if there is a way to solve a problem trivially.  I will accept a challenge if there is no other way to win, but if I can stack the deck, with resources provided by the game, to destroy a challenge (e.g., stacked ECM and Paragon to destroy battlestation), I will do it!  In other words, I play with combat-as-war mindset, not combat-as-sport.

P.S.  In other words, the challenge is not always the fight itself, but planning and exploiting resources to destroy the fight before it begins, or to make the inevitable fight as easy as possible.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 07:35:20 PM by Megas »
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StarGibbon

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2017, 07:59:44 PM »

@ StarGibbon:  Or stick with what works.  My current game is my first 0.8 game.  I did not know of all of the gameplay changes at the time.  I did what I knew best, and adapted as I played.  Just because I might be able to kill things with a smaller fleet at greater risk does not mean I want to do it.

My apologies. You said you were at the level cap and unable to fund your fleet travel, so it seemed to me that something *wasn't* working for you.  And I don't take risks. One thing about playing without save-scumming is that it turns you into a coward. I dont engage in risky battles Im not confident in. My fleet isn't particularly small, but it is efficient and sufficient for the task its designed for.   If I want to go on some survey/salvage runs, I take my salvage freighter ships out of storage, and put the bulk of my heavy warships in, not designing for heavy combat.


Quote
To each their own, but outside of battlestations the game no longer poses any significant challenge with access to fully outfitted capital ships.
I do not want a challenge if there is a way to solve a problem trivially.  I will accept a challenge if there is no other way to win, but if I can stack the deck, with resources provided by the game, to destroy a challenge (e.g., stacked ECM and Paragon to destroy battlestation), I will do it!  In other words, I play with combat-as-war mindset, not combat-as-sport.

P.S.  In other words, the challenge is not always the fight itself, but planning and exploiting resources to destroy the fight before it begins, or to make the inevitable fight as easy as possible.

As I said to each their own. Capital ships in the game currently feel like an "I Win" button in the players hands, and god mode bores me personally, so after I take a victory lap or two with them it's time for a re-roll. That will hopefully change when long term goals are added to the game and I feel like Im working towards a goal other than just being able to defeat AI fleets, or the economy tightens enough that fielding a capital ship is a difficult economic decision to make and requires substantial trade off.  Currently fielding a capital ship is a fairly trivial matter for the potency they provide.  A Paragon can wipe an entire fleet single-handledly without getting a scratch on the hull.

The only real goals available in the game at present are character advancement and fleet potency, and the level cap and capital ship acquisition signal the end game in those regards for me.

Wherever *you* gain most of your enjoyment from the game is fine by me.
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RawCode

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2017, 08:51:35 PM »

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DinoZavarski

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2017, 04:46:40 AM »

The only real goals available in the game at present are character advancement and fleet potency, and the level cap and capital ship acquisition signal the end game in those regards for me.

Unfortunately it is so for now, although things may change if some aspects of X2/3 universe style gameplay are implemented one day. Also i think factions and inter-faction relations have potential to add a lot of extra playability with not so much efforts if used properly. Just some state system aspects like licensing, trade and import/export regulations, technology research/production/salvage bans, etc, and and make it affect player's own development.

Of cause XP-based progressive growth within a fixed still set remains problem for continuous playability of any RPG's, while hard limits on development (like level cap) can really ruin re-playability. Fun thing with SS is that the variety of mods with imperfect i different ways balance actually come quite handy prolonging character playtime. Otherwise the only known (to me at least) "cure" for this is Cataclysm:DDA style skill development (learn/improve by use, degrade when not used, forget if learned to much since, but restore much faster what you already learned once...). Would have loved to see something similar, but don't think it will happen in SS.
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Cosmitz

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 07:14:27 AM »

I'd kinda hope the end version of SS has a 'timer'. Get ready by cycle xxx, when the Domain return. Something akin to that. Sure, be my guest continuing after that happens if you push through.

The game already has a time limit of sorts.  If you view hitting the level cap as more or less the "end" of the current game, and you on average level up after every major engagement, then the current game has a time limit of 39 major battles, give or take.

Meant an end-game condition.
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RawCode

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Re: The end goal
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 07:31:15 AM »

level means nothing.

it's possible to remove entire leveling system and game won't loss any of content.

final boss is remnant battlestation, kill it and gg.
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