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[Gothars]

So, you can now install the hullmods "Nav Relay" and "ECM Package" on civilian ships, with is supposed to be an initiative to send them into combat and make them more tangible. For me this initiative seems insufficient, definitely not enough to risk my valuable freighters and tankers.

So, some ideas for alternative hullmods:

- Rescue shuttles. Hullmod that saves crew from destroyed ships. The effectiveness could be relative to the max crew of the ship it is installed on, to give an imitative to deploy passenger ships into combat. You could basically have a makeshift hospital ship that way.
This would help one of the weaknesses of using d-hulls, there are skills to mitigate crew losses from damage, but not from destroyed ships.

- Emergency field service shuttles*. Hullmod that expands the CR of all frigates. An unfortunate side effect of peak readiness time is that frigates are not reliable in big battles, because they will run out of time/CR before the battle ends. That is not just bad for your fleets combat performance, but also annoying, because you have to interrupt the fight to retreat them.

If you could deploy a civilian ship that helps frigates prolong their peak readiness time, it would mean that they can participate for the duration of an entire big battle. And that without getting a time bonus in engagements where the operate alone, allowing them to kite and negating the point of their timer.
Frigates with delicate machinery/high maintenance should probably be exempt from this.


* edited from "teams" for clarity

[Bastion.Systems]

I just put the survey cost reduction mod on every single civ ship on my fleet.

[Gothars]

Exactly, I do, too. That leaves them as little more than a spreadsheet entry.

[orost]

It sounds a bit too 'magical' to work out for me. So this freighter with the hullmod is cowering in the corner while a frigate is fighting for its life on the other side of the battlefield, and those "field service teams" from the freighter are somehow extending the frigate's CR? Suspension of disbelief is one thing but there are limits to what can be handwaved away.

[Hussar]

Meanwhile I do not, rather unstable injectors & insulated engines. If anything's left, the nav releay or ECM package. /offtop slightly

As for ideas huh... Speaking of frigate's CR, what if there was a mod called "ressuply shuttles" (it could work for other ships as well but with with lesser effects) which would restore frigate's CR to it's full potential during the battle, but the Peak Operating time would be halved? This sounds a little powerful but it would create a niche for choosing certain ships over others as battlefield support. This could be limited by charges/ammo and demand frigate to retreat behind the lines into a safe zone for a procedure to complete. The procedure could utilize the personal shuttles (ones "we" use upon changing flagships during the battle) to complete, just slower & with short range (plus AI could target them and shoot them down) as they would carry out emergency supplies and/or crew replacements. I also think that a shuttle would have to make few trips between ships for it to complete fully, so it wouldn't be a 1s wonder ability without any downsides.

Spoiler

Like this? (modified screenshot)

[close]

[Gothars]

It sounds a bit too 'magical' to work out for me. So this freighter with the hullmod is cowering in the corner while a frigate is fighting for its life on the other side of the battlefield, and those "field service teams" from the freighter are somehow extending the frigate's CR? Suspension of disbelief is one thing but there are limits to what can be handwaved away.

Well, I was thinking they'd fly over in shuttles. But yeah, it is a little bit contrived. I think the mechanic would be solid, though.
Maybe somebody can come up with a better hullmod on civilian ships that can prolong the peak time of frigates.


@ Hussar: That's more or less what I meant, sorry for being unclear. The actual visible shuttles would be great, but not strictly necessary (we already have invisible shuttles for fighter pilot rescue). I'd also recommend the mechanic to restore peak readiness time, not CR, because the latter usually costs supplies.

[Hussar]

@Gothars: Hmm I think that our ideas differ rather in principle. My bonus would be a toggle'able active one, while yours suggested to be passive? As for recovery shuttles, I always assumed this was happening after battle. While in this case I think THEY'RE NECESSARY to be visible and fair game for enemy ships/fighters/missiles in order to have significant downsides and element of risk if a player orders a resupply close to the frontline or under heavy pressure. To go further I would even go a far as having the resupplied frigate either totally on a shut-down or with significant debuffs to it's point defense during that time (not to mention that both ships should also be still or move on a very slow speeds together [second option harder to code]). Not to mention that the shuttle range would have to be extremely low most likely.

As for the ships that could get this mod, I think a minimal standard would be buffallo or tarsus, with bigger ships like collossus maybe sending out more shuttles at the same time shortening the process a little bit. But in general I think that it took a few trips to complete, so it would be a question what % of CR each shuttle would restore.

[Gothars]

Why would the hullmod need extra downsides, though? The downside is that is either takes OP from your combat ships, or makes you deploy civilian ships, which is risky and costs supplies.

[Deshara]

We already have rescue shuttles. Could adjust it to provide it's benefit to escort targets or any fighters within engagement radius (so if you're ordering a heavy fighter escort for your flagship & expect heavy losses you could give your flagship a shuttle-class escort with rescue shuttles installed and a cautious officer so it'll try to avoid fire while remaining close enough to reduce crew losses, and if made stackable when mixing use cases doing so and having the carrier have rescue shuttles would give 0% crew loss from having both long-range rescue shuttles off-loading the crew from the close-range rescue shuttles

[Hussar]

@Gothars: Imagine fielding a fleet of phase frigates that you can keep resupplying over and over to a point they'll out-cr an onslaught for example.

No. This shouldn't be a wonder-ability at all. There should be limits to it for both stances of game balance and realism. Having an option like would be a significant asset to the player already, so having it limited (for example buffallo can resupply 2 frigates/1 destroyer, while collossus can 4 frigates/2 destroyers?) & with set of prerequisites (ship have to disengage for the procedure during which it will be vulnerable) will bring it back into line so it won't be overpowered. It would still be a great ability to have, especially for players that liked soloing or like flying their favorite frigate during the battle. If they ran out of cr and there's possibility for it, they can call in a support freighter for a resupply and go back to the fight. Or they could utilize it for other ships in their fleet.

[mendonca]

I think the concept of a non-combatant supporting the information grid in combat wouldn't require too much handwavium. It's sensible, to me, that a couple of command-center type shuttles cowering in the corner; with direct ship-to-ship 1200 baud modem links (or even higher) sharing some of the information overheads.

Would a 'command-center' hullmod work; boost to the command-related network skills; cost 80% OP?

Get the crew on the field; in civilian ships if necessary? Also supports timid / cautious officers in another role?

[Gothars]

@Gothars: Imagine fielding a fleet of phase frigates that you can keep resupplying over and over to a point they'll out-cr an onslaught for example.

OK, we are really thinking of quite different things here.

I think the concept of a non-combatant supporting the information grid in combat wouldn't require too much handwavium. It's sensible, to me, that a couple of command-center type shuttles cowering in the corner; with direct ship-to-ship 1200 baud modem links (or even higher) sharing some of the information overheads.

Would a 'command-center' hullmod work; boost to the command-related network skills; cost 80% OP?

Get the crew on the field; in civilian ships if necessary? Also supports timid / cautious officers in another role?

The existing "Nav Relay" and "ECM Package" are basically information network hullmods. The idea is to have other hullmods to install alongside those. And we've got a command center hullmod too, although it only works on the flag ship and speeds up command point regeneration.

[BillyRueben]

Do we really need civilian ships in battles?

I like how they only show up when someone is retreating. It makes sense. If you start introducing them as "corner buffs", they are just going to be that pain in the ass you have to manage every engagement.

-Battle Starts
-Hit "Deploy All" twice
-Rally civie ships in the corner
-Baby sit them the whole fight

I'd almost rather have freighters and tankers have built in weapons and hull mods only since, let's face it, we all don't put any weapons and the same three hullmods on them anyway.

[Megas]

I would like to experiment with civilians as improvised carriers, if I only found that elusive Converted Hangar hullmod.

If you start introducing them as "corner buffs", they are just going to be that pain in the ass you have to manage every engagement.

That can be risky.  I send a few guards so that the enemy turtle ball does not drift and kill them as targets of opportunity so easily.

[BillyRueben]

If things start getting a little too "hot" in the corner, you can immediately have all of those ships retreat. No real risk, and if they broke through your lines you are probably getting your butt handed to you already.