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Author Topic: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help  (Read 751 times)

Doctorhealsgood

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Since the last update gave rugged construction to all of the derelict drones i wanted to try out a build where pretty much i just send tons of these drone ships to go nuts on the enemy.
However i just can't figure out what sort of loadouts i should use for the ships to be effective and they just blow up without doing enough damage for me to be satisfied about their performance.
If someone can give me some pointers about what to equip on each of the derelict ships i would appreciate the help.
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Megas

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2022, 02:37:52 PM »

You need AI cores to get skills like Impact Mitigation and Polarized Armor on them.

Without shields, the ships want Heavy Armor, Armored Turret Mounts, and Resistant Flux Conduits hullmods.  They provide more armor and tougher weapons.

Rampart (with an AI core) is fairly good.  My favorite weapons on it are two Mark IXs and Cyclone Reaper.  If I have extra OP (after s-modding Heavy Armor and ITU), I may add two dual flak to the side mounts.  Otherwise, they are empty.  Rampart is good enough that it can built with Makeshift Shield Generator and more shield mods, but it probably works better without shields.  I like to use Alpha core on Rampart.  The really important skills are Impact Mitigation, Polarized Armor (assuming no shields), and Missile Specialization.  The rest are Combat Endurance, Ballistic Mastery, Target Analysis, and Gunnery Implants.  For hullmods, Armored Turret Mounts, Heavy Armor, ITU, and Resistant Flux Conduits.  Leftover OP (which will not be much) goes into vents.

The rest of the Derelict ships are weak.  It is hard to outfit them because they have so low OP, and you probably need to add s-mods.

For Picket, I use Light Dual Autocannon, Vulcan, and Light Mortar.  Any hullmods you want on it will probably need to be s-modded.

For Warden, I use Heavy Mortar and Railgun.

For Berserker, one or two Heavy Mortars and some Light Autocannons.  Some mounts will be empty; it is really OP starved.  If I want to spend 6 DP on a shieldless ship, I prefer to use Vanguard instead.

I have not found a satisfactory loadout for the other Derelict Drones.

If I want to use Derelicts (and no Remnants), two Ramparts with Alpha Cores is what I would use.  That is worth exactly 120 points out of the 120 point pool from Automated Ships.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 02:50:26 PM by Megas »
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Amoebka

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2022, 02:44:15 AM »

Another detail to remember is that AI cores are always reckless and will rush into the closest weapon range, including PD, which can be suicidal for shieldless ships. A way around it is s-modding converted hangar and using mining pods with elite PD skill on the core, while only fitting long range weapons.

Ultimately, I can't see a reason to use derelicts. Even with alpha cores they are considerably worse than similar human ships with support doctrine. Compare an alpha core Berserker to a SD Enforcer. It's just sad.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2022, 02:48:19 AM by Amoebka »
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Grievous69

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2022, 02:47:36 AM »

Ultimately, I can't see a reason to use derelicts, sadly. Even with alpha cores they are considerably worse than similar human ships with support doctrine. Compare alpha core Berserker to a SD Enforcer. It's just sad.
Yuuuup, I recently did a tier list on all [REDACTED] ships, and pretty much every derelict one is either trash tier or meme material in some specific strats (but even then inferior to others). It's kinda crazy you have to compare them with Remnants since they compete for the same resource and both require 5 skills points into Tech tree.
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Megas

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2022, 01:05:47 PM »

Yuuuup, I recently did a tier list on all [REDACTED] ships, and pretty much every derelict one is either trash tier or meme material in some specific strats (but even then inferior to others). It's kinda crazy you have to compare them with Remnants since they compete for the same resource and both require 5 skills points into Tech tree.
Not too impressed with most Remnants either.  The good ones are Glimmer and Radiant, but the rest are unremarkable enough that they get used only on a whim or convenience.  Whenever I think about using Brilliant, I often want to use Apogee, Dominator, Eradicator, Gryphon, or Champion instead.

I tend to get Automated Ships because I am a compulsive looter, and I want to take the ships even if I do not need or benefit from them.  Of course, if I already have four in Tech, spending one more point to get Automated Ships just for the fun factor is tempting, even if the benefit for my current fleet is minimal.

Ultimately, I can't see a reason to use derelicts. Even with alpha cores they are considerably worse than similar human ships with support doctrine. Compare an alpha core Berserker to a SD Enforcer. It's just sad.
I rather have Vanguard piloted by level 5 officer than a Berserker with alpha core.  Both zombie ships with same DP cost, but Vanguard seems to do better when I tried them against SIM opponents.

Rampart on the other hand is a budget Dominator (its closest human ship equivalent).  Pay 15 DP instead of 25 DP for similar focused firepower and durability?  I'll take it!  I might even take it over Brilliant because Rampart is cheaper, and if it dies, it has Rugged Construction to resist d-mods.  Not a bad ship for what it does, and it does not even need s-mods (although that means no weapons in the side medium mounts).  Now if Rampart cost had much more DP, then yes, I would rather take a human ship or Brilliant.  As it is, I have recently taken Rampart instead of (a second) Dominator because of its 15 DP cost plus zombie properties.  It feels kind of cheap (in a mildly unfair way) if built well enough.

The biggest drawback of Rampart is finding them to kill and recover.  There is no red system to farm unlimited Derelicts like there is for Remnant ships.  (I was unlucky with a contact bounty long enough that I got the special Omega bounty before I got my first Derelict bounty, which was led by three Guardians.)
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Amoebka

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2022, 09:28:52 PM »

Alright, this topic really resonates with me, so here's the latest breakthrough in applied memetics:

Spoiler
[close]

The loadout is designed for low-tech fleet support. I'm assuming you have your officers in the likes of Onslaughts/Eradicators/Manticores, and want to fill the remaining DP with solid line destroyers. This makes it directly comparable to Support Doctrine Enforcers (XIV) - the usual choice for this situation.

1) Defense

The main appeal of Enforcers is them being hard to kill. Surprisingly, our Berserker isn't too far behind!
Shield efficiency is about the same (1.0), with similar base capacity (4500 vs 4200). Of course, Enforcer actually has OP to spare on caps, so it wins in the end.
Armor is virtually the same! Polarized Armor + Impact Mitigation effectively increases armor by 33%, so our Berserker has ~1260 armor, against 1390 on Enforcer (XIV) with heavy armor and armored weapon mounts.
Enforcer has much higher hull (4500 vs 8000). The core in this build doesn't have Damage Control, while SD does (33% increase in effective hull).
The lack of PD is the obvious issue. I've tried converted hangar Mining Pods, but they don't really achieve much, even with elite PD skill. They can kill lone harpoons, but it's usually easier to catch them on omni-shields anyway. In a fleet setting you would outsource the PD to your main ships (Xyphos on Eradicators, etc).

2) Speed
Pretty much the same (64 vs 61, burn drive on both). Berserkers max out your Coordinated Maneuvers by themselves, but that's fairly easy to achieve anyway.

3) Offense
Here is where Berserker actually outcompetes the Enforcer. Not only does it have much higher range (1450 vs 1200), it does considerably more damage, thanks to elite Target Analysis, Ballistic Mastery and Wolfpack Tactics. 10% more against frigates, 20% more against destroyers, 35% against cruisers, and 40% against capitals!
The Enforcer does bring 4 small missiles, however you would generally not boost them with EMR/ECCM.

4) DP
Berserkers are 6 DP instead of 7 for Enforcers with SD. They become even more competitive if you use Derelict Contingent. D-mod penalties are halved for Berserkers, so you can discount them further much more readily.

Overall, it's a surprisingly decent alternative. For this specific scenario, of course. And assuming you have spare alpha cores to integrate. :)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 09:31:49 PM by Amoebka »
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2022, 06:20:17 PM »

Hi. With the information i have got from the thread i have played around with the derelict ships for a bit. It seems to be working nicely enough so far.

Managed to get a lucky find from a mothership recently (Cryosleeper on the same system!) and got a nice haul of 3 ramparts for me to mess around with. So far i am using only one with an alpha core equipped with a Mark IX Autocannon, Hepahestus Assault Gun, A locust SRM Launcher and Dual Flak on the sides as weapons. For mods it has Heavy Armor (S-Mod), ITU (S-Mod), Armored weapon mounts, Resistant Flux conduits, and ECCM Package (This is more of a frivolous mod choice as i just wanted to see the missiles go faster). No Shields as i decided to just let them go nuts with the flux instead.

Berserkers were a more easy find to get and i am currently running 4 with beta cores (Considering fully integrating them for either target analysis or point defense). For weapons i run 3 heavy mortars and 4 light autocannons but think that even without shields it is a bit too harsh on the flux so i will probably have to tweak the configuration a bit. Hullmods are ITU (S-Mod) and Converted hangar (S-Mod) i admit that the hangar was done on impulse when i decided that i was going to go shieldless with them and hoped that the mining pods would help cover them up for free fluxwise. It kinda works but i have been thinking about maybe using sparks instead i can get the OP i need from removing one heavy mortar and a light autocannon or two honestly i wish there were more support wings other than the xyphos. With that change maybe swapping the light autocannons with the dual version would be neat but the difference in range makes me hestiate.

Finally we have the Sentries. These ones are simple, I have 6 of them on my fleet with three Salamander MRM on them and i watch as they spam their Fast Missile Racks (Tempted to install gammas on them with system expertise and missile specialization just so they can spam harder). Not completely sure of their actual efficacy due to PD being a thing but sometimes i get to see enemy ships getting drowned on salamanders and it is something i enjoy watching. To support their role i had an idea and got three Ventures Equipped with two Pilums two Breaches two Hypervelocity Drivers and one Ion Beam (Considering the graviton beam too).The Hypervelocity drivers to poke shields a bit, the pilums and ion beam to annoy with EMP and the Breaches to crack open armor so the pilum become more effective and to help the rest of the fleet further. Because the Venture has fast Missile Racks too the Pilum/breach spam is quite enjoyable to see too. ECCM and ITU are there too.

To top it all off i have Field Repairs, Makeshift Equipment, Derelict Contingent, and Coordinated Manouvers and Crew Training as extras. I can pretty much go with fights back to back without pause and they are almost always ready for more. No crew to worry about either. Might not be the most optimal group of ships but i enjoy how lenient they are. I feel like i still have to optimize the ships further but i had to share how i have been going so far with them. I made the thread myself afterall.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Exploratorium/Derelict drones Automated Ships Loadout Help
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2022, 09:36:14 AM »

I am also trying out this weapon set for the Berserker with an Arbalest Autocannon and two Light Autocannons on the left, a Heavy Mortar and two Light Mortars on the right with an added flak at the left medium slot with PD skill as it gives everything more or less the exact same range. It seems nice enough i think? I keep falling into the pitfall of wanting to fill all weapon slots but it is a shieldless ship so it should be fine.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 09:52:31 AM by Doctorhealsgood »
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