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Author Topic: How can I command fighers?  (Read 22434 times)

Sapling

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How can I command fighers?
« on: May 01, 2017, 06:30:00 AM »

The carrier in my fleet seems to be automatically issuing commands to the fighters.

My question is, is it possible to issue commands to the fighters myself?
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NinjaPirate

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 06:40:07 AM »

I've been wondering the same thing myself. 
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Gothars

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 06:44:17 AM »

In short: no. You can issue commands to the carriers however, who will use their fighters to follow them.
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Shodan13

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2017, 07:19:01 AM »

It would be nice to get some more granularity. Like distribute the fighters from one ship to act as point defense for multiple ships. Send some to cover bombers and others to stay back etc.
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Schwartz

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 07:50:13 AM »

Yeah it would. This is one of the downsides of the fighters-as-weapons thing. Since we now have more command points, it would be nice to have a couple of extra commands that work just for fighters. Like Attack, Bomb, Defend. We used to have Strike, which was a bombing run AFAIK. We still have Harass which is a frigate order - and quite useless to me personally. That could go if it meant bringing one or two fighter orders back into the game.

I know Alex is trying to cut down on commands, but the AI sometimes does boneheaded stuff like pulling 3 carriers onto the same defense point and having their 12 fighter wings all huddle into a ball instead of taking apart one or two of the incoming destroyers with that firepower - which they could easily do. Or switching between friendlies to form up with instead of being given a dedicated order.

That aside, you can still order wings indirectly by giving the carrier an attack order or setting targets with your flagship.
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The Soldier

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2017, 07:50:45 AM »

I rather like the more hands-off thing with fighters.  Don't have to waste loads of command points ordering them around for them to be effective - under the carrier's command, they can actually get stuff done without me having to micro their every last move.
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Thaago

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 07:56:09 AM »

Also, at present there is a bug where if you set a carrier to engage/eliminate a target, its the 'carrier' that goes and attacks, rather than its fighters. If its not already fixed for the next version, Alex is aware of it.
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The Soldier

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 08:02:19 AM »

Also, at present there is a bug where if you set a carrier to engage/eliminate a target, its the 'carrier' that goes and attacks, rather than its fighters. If its not already fixed for the next version, Alex is aware of it.
But hey, sometimes that's good when dealing with Remnant or Domain stuff.  But yea, on the whole it's getting a bit too close for comfort.
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Allectus

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 12:06:32 PM »

You can't anymore as a fleet commander.  Your options are:

  • Do nothing and hope the carrier handles itself reasonably well.  Quite boring as you're no longer playing the tactical game
  • Give an order directly to the carrier and hope it assigns fighters appropriately.  Usually just gets itself massively out of position and killed.  Do not advise
  • Fly the carrier as a flagship; your direct control over fighters in an action game sense is much improved. No way to give waypoints to avoid flak though, so just treat them like super missiles rather than interceptors/bombers/fighters.  Also precludes you from flying line ships.  Probably the best option in the current iteration, if a bit sad for what we've lost
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Allectus

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2017, 12:10:25 PM »

I rather like the more hands-off thing with fighters.  Don't have to waste loads of command points ordering them around for them to be effective - under the carrier's command, they can actually get stuff done without me having to micro their every last move.

Don't see why we couldn't have both.  All ships should operate reasonably well without orders, but also abide by ones we issue if we decide their worth the command points (which imho they absolutely are).
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StarGibbon

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2017, 12:17:01 PM »

I rather like the more hands-off thing with fighters.  Don't have to waste loads of command points ordering them around for them to be effective - under the carrier's command, they can actually get stuff done without me having to micro their every last move.

Don't see why we couldn't have both.  All ships should operate reasonably well without orders, but also abide by ones we issue if we decide their worth the command points (which imho they absolutely are).

With as powerful as fighters are in the current version, I can't help but think that raw power combined with that level of tactial micro in the players hands would give you too much advantage. Why would anyone ever use something other than a carrier when they have that much control over their lethal wings?  The lack of of the ability to micro/focus the fighter squadrons is the only reason to use a non carrier in the present version, IMO. Carriers are that good now, they actually need to have "one arm tied behind their back".
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miljan

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2017, 01:26:17 PM »

I rather like the more hands-off thing with fighters.  Don't have to waste loads of command points ordering them around for them to be effective - under the carrier's command, they can actually get stuff done without me having to micro their every last move.

Don't see why we couldn't have both.  All ships should operate reasonably well without orders, but also abide by ones we issue if we decide their worth the command points (which imho they absolutely are).

With as powerful as fighters are in the current version, I can't help but think that raw power combined with that level of tactial micro in the players hands would give you too much advantage. Why would anyone ever use something other than a carrier when they have that much control over their lethal wings?  The lack of of the ability to micro/focus the fighter squadrons is the only reason to use a non carrier in the present version, IMO. Carriers are that good now, they actually need to have "one arm tied behind their back".

And that arm should never be bad AI or lack of controls for your cariers, but more balance of dmg and similar. Never put bad AI to balance something out, as that doesnt fix anything just makes more problems
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StarGibbon

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2017, 01:38:10 PM »

I rather like the more hands-off thing with fighters.  Don't have to waste loads of command points ordering them around for them to be effective - under the carrier's command, they can actually get stuff done without me having to micro their every last move.

Don't see why we couldn't have both.  All ships should operate reasonably well without orders, but also abide by ones we issue if we decide their worth the command points (which imho they absolutely are).

With as powerful as fighters are in the current version, I can't help but think that raw power combined with that level of tactial micro in the players hands would give you too much advantage. Why would anyone ever use something other than a carrier when they have that much control over their lethal wings?  The lack of of the ability to micro/focus the fighter squadrons is the only reason to use a non carrier in the present version, IMO. Carriers are that good now, they actually need to have "one arm tied behind their back".

And that arm should never be bad AI or lack of controls for your cariers, but more balance of dmg and similar. Never put bad AI to balance something out, as that doesnt fix anything just makes more problems

Well, "lack of controls" depends on whether you think you're playing a primarily action oriented combat sim, or a fleet level tactical sim. It's possible that the game you think you're playing is not the game Alex is making.

As far as "bad AI", I disagree, and think that the AI for carriers is pretty good, in that you can mostly leave them alone and wait for them to win the battle for you.  They dont need too much babysitting as long as you dont issue them stupid orders, which is what I want out of a ship AI.

As far as balance, carriers *should* be powerful, but they should also be much more vulnerable then they are now, requiring heavy escort. They should definitely be a ship the enemy AI prioritizes. I personally think that carriers of human piloted strike craft are an anachronism in a sci fi setting, but if youre going to use the concept then carriers are something that need escort because they are vulnerable to a number of threats without it. In the game at present, there are no real threats the carriers are particularly vulnerable to that cant be solved with their fighter bays.
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miljan

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2017, 01:55:59 PM »

Well, "lack of controls" depends on whether you think you're playing a primarily action oriented combat sim, or a fleet level tactical sim. It's possible that the game you think you're playing is not the game Alex is making.

As far as "bad AI", I disagree, and think that the AI for carriers is pretty good, in that you can mostly leave them alone and wait for them to win the battle for you.  They dont need too much babysitting as long as you dont issue them stupid orders, which is what I want out of a ship AI.

As far as balance, carriers *should* be powerful, but they should also be much more vulnerable then they are now, requiring heavy escort. They should definitely be a ship the enemy AI prioritizes. I personally think that carriers of human piloted strike craft are an anachronism in a sci fi setting, but if youre going to use the concept then carriers are something that need escort because they are vulnerable to a number of threats without it. In the game at present, there are no real threats the carriers are particularly vulnerable to that cant be solved with their fighter bays.
And its possible to have both in the game and not force it one way or another by removing features from the game or dumbing it more down.

Bad Ai is when computer does random crap when playing and when I cannot guide him to do what I want. If i can play fleet level tactical sim with other ships, I expect to have same control and AI of carriers, and not for them to be *** because of some balance thing. As said bad AI should be never considered as a balance thing in games like this. And no , AI of carriers is not good in any way or form. Or better said AI of fighters
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:57:51 PM by miljan »
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Allectus

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Re: How can I command fighers?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2017, 02:00:29 PM »

I strongly agree with Miljan.

StarGibbon, I also agree with your view on carrier vulnerability, you might be interested in this discussion: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11477.msg206722#msg206722
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