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[PCCL]

So, in the current hullmod system, potentially extensive ship upgrades can be removed and/or installed for free while similarly extensive damage have great costs associated with removing them.


I think it would be nice if hullmods become a more permanent part of a ship's hull than a simple, temporary loadout option, perhaps something along the line of the way d-mods are done right now. Detailed proposal follow:

• The "restore" button be changed to "hullmod"
• This button will lead to a menu where players can add/remove hullmods at some cost
  
  • hullmods available for addition/removal depend on player skills and station docked at
  • some stations provide installation of hullmods unavailable to players at a higher cost
  • d-mods can only be removed in stations, some hullmods need dry dock to install, etc
  • d-mods will be removed in the same way as all other hullmods
• potentially some hullmods are illegal in some spaces (eg integrated PD AI illegal in heg space cuz AI)
• ships can show up in markets with pre-installed hullmods, much like (XIV) or (A) hullmods but non-permanent
  
  • highly hullmodded ships may be very valuable (think buying a normal YT-1300 vs buying the Millenium Falcon)
  • ships can be bought with hullmods players cannot install themselves because they haven't learned them
  • number of positive hullmods can be indicated as blue pips next to the red pips of d-mods
  • a ship disabled in combat may both lose normal hullmods or gain d-mods, potentially both

There are two primary advantages to this system:

• this brings hullmods and d-mods in line with one another and make them more streamlined as parts of the same system
• this allows highly specialized/upgraded ships (like the Millenium Falcon) to be a valid way for players to invest their resources, potentially creating a new playstyle (like playing the Millenium Falcon). Did I mention I wanna be Han Solo, flying the Millenium Falcon?

[Gothars]

You had me at Millenium Falcon. I'd really like what this would do for ship-individuality... but I think it would be really bad for experimenting with different loadouts. That is a major fun factor in Sector, so not even the Falcon would be worth giving that up.

[orost]

I think this a great idea.

but I think it would be really bad for experimenting with different loadouts. That is a major fun factor in Sector, so not even the Falcon would be worth giving that up.

Well, there needs to be a balance between flexibility and ship identity - and right now, for my tastes, it's too far towards the former. I don't want ships to be interchangeable shells with no history or any individual traits, but currently they are, with the sole exception of d-mods.

And there's always the simulator for experimentation.

[Megas]

This sounds like something for a level 3 Industry skill perk, if player can manufacture ships one day.  Add one hullmod to each ship you build.

[ChaseBears]

i like it in some ways, though it does inhibit speed of experimentation with ship loadouts.

[TaLaR]

Most hullmods are very specialized and cost OP. Having ships littered with random ones pre-installed will just add extra cost to remove them before ship can become useful.

I very much prefer current system.

There is still place for special ships - in the way they are done for IBB, as skins.

[orost]

Most hullmods are very specialized and cost OP. Having ships littered with random ones pre-installed will just add extra cost to remove them before ship can become useful.

Good. Making do with what you have is fun. To hell with min-maxing.

(Also, if this happened, it would probably involve slashing OP costs for hullmods across the board. Some could even be free.)

[TaLaR]

(Also, if this happened, it would probably involve slashing OP costs for hullmods across the board. Some could even be free.)

Which will lead to overpowered player fleet in endgame, when economic constraints stop holding you back.

[orost]

They player's fleet is already overpowered once money is not an issue (go kill some bounties and restore their Onslaughts or something) and I can't see that ever not being the case. It's really not that relevant what happens once you've essentially beaten the game.

[TaLaR]

It might be not endgame only problem.
The ship that matters most is the one piloted by player. Unless heavily modding even single FR/DE is going to be ridiculously expensive (in which case hullmods become exclusive endgame stuff), reducing hullmod OP cost is going to have very profound effect past earliest game.

[PCCL]

hmm, I was thinking most markets would only have stock/d-mod ships, with very few markets (pirates, independents, black markets) sometimes selling ships with some aftermarket modifications ("you see these thrusters here? mounted 'er myself! Fire 'er up in hyperspace and I swear you'll reach burn 11 in this bucket! Yeah, no, no sustained burnin' or nothing! Now, usually these upgrades come at a premium but... you seem like a nice guy with a nice crowd so..... 20 kilocreds for the whole thing, whaddayasay?)

maybe tri tachs or lion guards can also sell you some military surplus if you kiss up to them enough, kinda like the (XIV) from the hegemony

so @TaLaR, they would still work much like skins, just less permanent. I would not expect the rate of pre-modded ships appearing to exceed the current rate of d-ships/a-ships/xiv-ships showing up by much, if at all

@orost, I'm not sure if slashing OP is strictly necessary, but hey, talking about that kind of fine tuning is a bit preemptive, I think... That said though, we already do have free hullmods in the form of built in salvage gantries, heg reserve, XIV, etc etc

[Gothars]

kinda like the (XIV) from the hegemony

And that's the answer right there. The present system stays, but with more of these special ships with permanent hullmods sprinkled in. Not all as faction specials, but as normal (but rare) ships with (random?) fixed hullmods. Some could even have a combination of positive and negative ones, and the d-skin.

I think it's OK that we'd not get to pick and choose, Han Solo didn't modify most of the Millennium Falcon himself after all, he just won it.

[Darloth]

there could even be a fairly standard set of modspecs that most ships have at least one of, in the way that many ships currently share a heg military variant...

You'd have your Speed Optimized ship and your Uparmored ship (arguably we already have this with heg military variants) and maybe your Overdriven ship if you want to make Safety Overrides more of a commitment to use.

Perhaps when hullmods are built in this way they take up less OP, or none?

[PCCL]

kinda like the (XIV) from the hegemony

And that's the answer right there. The present system stays, but with more of these special ships with permanent hullmods sprinkled in. Not all as faction specials, but as normal (but rare) ships with (random?) fixed hullmods. Some could even have a combination of positive and negative ones, and the d-skin.

I think it's OK that we'd not get to pick and choose, Han Solo didn't modify most of the Millennium Falcon himself after all, he just won it.

don't like the idea of that. A big part of this proposal is that it bridges the gap b/t built in hullmods and normal hullmods. The last thing we need, imo, is special hull-mods for every faction/independent/what-have-yous.

[xenoargh]

I think this idea has major problems.

It removes one of the greatest bits of Fun; optimizing ships to work with loadouts.  It's already considerably less Fun, now that we have to search around for RNG Hull Mods just to get stuff equipped well (and that's for those of us who know what the important Hull Mods are in the first place).

It'll just slow down the game, like the other things have- the glacial pace of leveling, the RNG rareness of weapons and having to hunt down RNG Hull Mods.  We'll have to add, "spend lots of time looking at RNG ships for ones that we don't want to fix because they're badly set up" and "save ridiculous amounts of money before we can get to midgame".

None of this is Fun.  None of this adds real challenge to the game or satisfying interest; all it does is slow things down, again and again, which is a very poor substitute for having challenging things or genuinely interesting things to do.