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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.10.2  (Read 17446 times)

Ioulaum

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2021, 06:22:45 AM »

keep seeing AI firing reaper towards fighters no matter what fire mode is....

Hmm, that doesn't sound right...
Did you turn on force-autofire? If so, Opportunist mode is probably what you want for reapers, as most other modes don't really care about conserving ammo. IgnoreFighters mode shouldn't fire them at fighters, but will probably still waste most of the shots against frigates that can easily dodge them etc.^^

If you don't turn on force-autofire, the base ship AI usually decides to control reapers manually. But even the base ship AI shouldn't really fire them at fighters, I think...
Can you give me some more details about the exact mode(s) you tried? This sounds like something that shouldn't happen. I assume the weapon group with the reapers didn't contain any other types of weapons?

Quote
But is a great mod nonetheless

Can PD mode use custom AI as well? So devastator can shoot both missile and fighters

Thanks =)
Weird, devastator cannons should work with PD-mode and should still prioritize fighters over missiles but also target missiles. Making PD-mode be able to use custom AI would be easy enough, but I kind of didn't want this mod to turn non-PD weapons into PD-weapons. That being said, the devastator cannon has the PD tag and can target missiles, so it should work as is.

Can you let me know if this clarification already helps? If it doesn't, I'll have to test it again and see if there's maybe some bug that makes things not work as intended.

Correction, tested without mods and AI still fire reapers at fighters, bug reported at https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22013.0

This bug is strange and annoying, don't think I saw it in 0.91 before...

BTW, the notification on discord saying there's a release of 0.10.2 but I haven't been able to locate it XD
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 07:10:59 AM by Ioulaum »
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DesperatePeter

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2021, 11:47:44 PM »


Correction, tested without mods and AI still fire reapers at fighters, bug reported at https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22013.0

This bug is strange and annoying, don't think I saw it in 0.91 before...

BTW, the notification on discord saying there's a release of 0.10.2 but I haven't been able to locate it XD

That's kind of what I expected^^ Good to know, thanks for confirming =)
About the 0.10.2: Ooops, I just mistyped. That was supposed to be 0.10.1
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Topkack

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #77 on: July 08, 2021, 03:17:30 AM »

could you make a "lock weapons until % of phase cloak cooldown" so my afflictors stop blowing themselves up with antimatter blasters? lol
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Klokinator

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2021, 12:15:31 PM »

I'd like to see the settings for this mod change a bit, so that instead of the current system, you can change weapons to shoot or not-shoot at specific things.

For example, I love the Heavy Arc Emitter. It shreds anything in PD range, and tears through ships with downed shields.

But... there is no setting for "PD and if enemy has downed shields"

So, how about a system where, for each weapon, you can click boxes twice, once to highlight them green, once for red, or set them to off as in 'it doesn't matter'.

Prefixes:
Fighter
Missile
Shields
Armor
Hull

Suffixes:
Holdfire 90%
Holdfire 75%
Holdfire 50%
Conserve Ammo
PanicFire
PD Flux > 50%
PD Ammo < 90%

...

So, in the case of my Heavy Arc Emitter, I'd do the following:

Prefixes:
Fighter
Missile
Shields
Armor
Hull

I highlight the bolded options in green, and cross out shields, meaning this weapons acts as PD, but can also target unshielded enemies too. As for the options below, the ability to set them as positive or negative, for the inverse, would be cool.

Maybe I want a PD weapon that only fires if flux is above or below a certain level.
Maybe I want it to never conserve ammo, or to always conserve ammo.
Etc

By switching to a Yes/Whatever/No system, you'll add a lot more versatility to what I consider a mandatory mod. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
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Farlarzia

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2021, 12:58:41 PM »

Hello again!

I've really been enjoying a lot of the new options you've been adding, but I've found the <90% ammo one sometimes a bit frustrating - for weapons that reload an individual shot at a time this works well, but for weapons that have large magazines, where a reload can be half the total capacity, it really doesn't work so well.

For example, the Victorys has a pair of built in guns. 90% ammo pool on this means it'll only fire 3 shots out of the 15 given per reload, until the opporuntist AI kicks in and it fires everything.
So for weapons like this, having another weapon AI option that can read a weapons reload size, and fire an entire reloads worth of ammunition before conserving would be ideal.

Expanding on the opportunist AI - I think the additional constraints for when the AI decides to fire (enemy movement speed compared to projectile speed, likely to be in range after travelling etc), can make the AI too hesitant to fire.
Projectile weapons already have a fadeout distance past max range, which means even if the enemy moves out of range, the projectile still has a grace period where it will connect for reduced damage.
I'd often just want the weapon to fire at the target, at the off chance it'll connect and deal a chunk of damage, than not firing at all because it thinks its not likely enough, and dealing no damage at all - especially considering the limitations the opportunist mode already places upon when it will fire (high flux etc), means the windows for when the weapons will consider firing at all are already small.

Ideally I'd like there to be two seperate conserve AI types.
The first being the current, overly cautious opporunist AI kicks in past the ammo threshold
And a second, where the opportunist AI only checks the ships flux level, without the other firing constrictions past the ammo threshold.

Edit: Another suggestion would be an option to  force AI ships to select an empty weapon group, if possible - this is a niche scenario, but a scenario I have come across nonetheless, where if a ship has only PD weaponry, the AI by default is assigned to group 1, which in this case would always be a PD group - however AI in manual control of a PD weapon group, cannot actually use it as PD!
However, selecting an empty weapon group for that ship instead, allows all the groups to function as intended.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 01:57:36 PM by Farlarzia »
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DesperatePeter

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2021, 01:32:29 AM »

First of all, sorry that updates have been very slow lately, I didn't really have much time to work on the mod recently. I hope that I'll have more time in the future, but probably the next update will still take a couple weeks.

could you make a "lock weapons until % of phase cloak cooldown" so my afflictors stop blowing themselves up with antimatter blasters? lol

Thanks for the suggestion, that's a funny little idea. That should be easy enough to implement, but I'm afraid it would be very difficult to implement well. I could implement it as a ship mode, but then it won't affect weapons on auto-fire. I could implement it as a weapon mode, but then it would only work (reliably) if you set the ship AI to force-autofire. And then there will be situations, where you would really much prefer for your afflictor to come out of phase and immediately fire and kill e.g. smaller ships rather than unphasing and then eating fire for 3 seconds before firing^^
Also, I'm trying to not include too too many "confusing" modes, where the name doesn't immediately tell the user what the mode does. E.g. Opportunist mode seems to be fairly confusing to people at times.
So unless you can think of a good/clean/universal solution for this, I think I'll have to say no, unfortunately.

I'd like to see the settings for this mod change a bit, so that instead of the current system, you can change weapons to shoot or not-shoot at specific things.

For example, I love the Heavy Arc Emitter. It shreds anything in PD range, and tears through ships with downed shields.

But... there is no setting for "PD and if enemy has downed shields"

So, how about a system where, for each weapon, you can click boxes twice, once to highlight them green, once for red, or set them to off as in 'it doesn't matter'.

Prefixes:
Fighter
Missile
Shields
Armor
Hull

Suffixes:
Holdfire 90%
Holdfire 75%
Holdfire 50%
Conserve Ammo
PanicFire
PD Flux > 50%
PD Ammo < 90%

...

So, in the case of my Heavy Arc Emitter, I'd do the following:

Prefixes:
Fighter
Missile
Shields
Armor
Hull

I highlight the bolded options in green, and cross out shields, meaning this weapons acts as PD, but can also target unshielded enemies too. As for the options below, the ability to set them as positive or negative, for the inverse, would be cool.

Maybe I want a PD weapon that only fires if flux is above or below a certain level.
Maybe I want it to never conserve ammo, or to always conserve ammo.
Etc

By switching to a Yes/Whatever/No system, you'll add a lot more versatility to what I consider a mandatory mod. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

Hmm, I like that idea, thanks for the suggestion. I think that might be an effective way of keeping "mode inflation" in check (which has become a bit of a problem, as more and more people request somewhat specific modes xD). However, it would make it harder to adjust weapon modes during combat. Also, this would require some major reworking of how modes work. I already explored a similar concept for ship modes, so I know how one could do this. I'll keep the idea in mind and if I find the time to do a big rework of the mod, I'll definitely consider this option.

Hello again!

I've really been enjoying a lot of the new options you've been adding, but I've found the <90% ammo one sometimes a bit frustrating - for weapons that reload an individual shot at a time this works well, but for weapons that have large magazines, where a reload can be half the total capacity, it really doesn't work so well.

For example, the Victorys has a pair of built in guns. 90% ammo pool on this means it'll only fire 3 shots out of the 15 given per reload, until the opporuntist AI kicks in and it fires everything.
So for weapons like this, having another weapon AI option that can read a weapons reload size, and fire an entire reloads worth of ammunition before conserving would be ideal.

Hi there and thanks for the suggestions =)
Yeah, I can see changing the "PD/ConseverAmmo (ammo <90%)" modes to "PD/ConseverAmmo (first magazine empty)". Probably that still won't be perfect for every weapon in existence (as some weapons do a full reload), but might be better than 90%.

Quote
Expanding on the opportunist AI - I think the additional constraints for when the AI decides to fire (enemy movement speed compared to projectile speed, likely to be in range after travelling etc), can make the AI too hesitant to fire.
Projectile weapons already have a fadeout distance past max range, which means even if the enemy moves out of range, the projectile still has a grace period where it will connect for reduced damage.
I'd often just want the weapon to fire at the target, at the off chance it'll connect and deal a chunk of damage, than not firing at all because it thinks its not likely enough, and dealing no damage at all - especially considering the limitations the opportunist mode already places upon when it will fire (high flux etc), means the windows for when the weapons will consider firing at all are already small.

Ideally I'd like there to be two seperate conserve AI types.
The first being the current, overly cautious opporunist AI kicks in past the ammo threshold
And a second, where the opportunist AI only checks the ships flux level, without the other firing constrictions past the ammo threshold.

Haha, yeah, the opportunist mode has been a pretty big headache for me so far xD
I originally intended it mainly for limited ammo big boom missiles (reapers etc.), where you really want to make sure that shots have a good chance of hitting.
From my perspective, opportunist is pretty much working as intended (i.e. pretty conservative). But I also see, that a lot of people want to use opportunist for other types of weapons and it's not great for projectile weapons...
So, in the end, I kind of think that I might to have to add a check if the weapon that's using this mode is a limited ammo missile weapon or something else. Then I could make the mode less conservative for weapons that don't have limited ammo (or reload their ammo automatically).

Quote
Edit: Another suggestion would be an option to  force AI ships to select an empty weapon group, if possible - this is a niche scenario, but a scenario I have come across nonetheless, where if a ship has only PD weaponry, the AI by default is assigned to group 1, which in this case would always be a PD group - however AI in manual control of a PD weapon group, cannot actually use it as PD!
However, selecting an empty weapon group for that ship instead, allows all the groups to function as intended.

The force-autofire ship mode actually does exactly this. In addition, it sets all weapon groups to auto-fire (i.e. they are forced to obey the fire mode).
I think that might already be a good solution for this problem?


So, thanks for all the feedback guys, I'll try to work on these suggestions sometime in the near-ish future =)
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Farlarzia

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2021, 01:37:10 PM »

Quote
Edit: Another suggestion would be an option to  force AI ships to select an empty weapon group, if possible - this is a niche scenario, but a scenario I have come across nonetheless, where if a ship has only PD weaponry, the AI by default is assigned to group 1, which in this case would always be a PD group - however AI in manual control of a PD weapon group, cannot actually use it as PD!
However, selecting an empty weapon group for that ship instead, allows all the groups to function as intended.

The force-autofire ship mode actually does exactly this. In addition, it sets all weapon groups to auto-fire (i.e. they are forced to obey the fire mode).
I think that might already be a good solution for this problem?

Hmm - I was doing some more testing last night regarding this, and it looks like its just a quirk of player piloted ships being on autopilot for those niche situations, and regular AI controlled ships don't suffer from the "can't use selected group as PD option", even in vanilla. So while this could potentially still be an extremely niche problem that occurs, practically it should never matter
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Helldiver

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2021, 07:30:08 AM »

This mod is a godsend for essential things like setting target priorities or making ships actually use certain weapons in all situations. It's one of these mods where there's no excuse that its functions aren't in the base game and it alleviates massive sources of frustration.
Huge thanks for making and sharing it :D
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DesperatePeter

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.9.3
« Reply #83 on: July 25, 2021, 05:48:25 AM »

So, this weekend I finally had some time to work on the mod =)

I just released a new version, 0.10.2. It mainly addresses issues with the opportunist mode.
Opportunist mode will now behave less conservatively when the weapon doesn't use ammo and there is a new setting which you can use to make it less/more conservative (opportunist_triggerHappinessModifier).

Spoiler
  • For weapons that don't use ammo, the closest point (rather than the center) of the target will be used for range calculations and the mode won't assume that the enemy will try to move out of range
  • For limited ammo weapons that don't reload, the behavior is the same as before
  • For limited ammo weapons that can reload ammo, a mix of the aforementioned behaviors is used
[close]

This mod is a godsend for essential things like setting target priorities or making ships actually use certain weapons in all situations. It's one of these mods where there's no excuse that its functions aren't in the base game and it alleviates massive sources of frustration.
Huge thanks for making and sharing it :D
Thanks man, I'm really glad you like it!

I've really been enjoying a lot of the new options you've been adding, but I've found the <90% ammo one sometimes a bit frustrating - for weapons that reload an individual shot at a time this works well, but for weapons that have large magazines, where a reload can be half the total capacity, it really doesn't work so well.

For example, the Victorys has a pair of built in guns. 90% ammo pool on this means it'll only fire 3 shots out of the 15 given per reload, until the opporuntist AI kicks in and it fires everything.
So for weapons like this, having another weapon AI option that can read a weapons reload size, and fire an entire reloads worth of ammunition before conserving would be ideal.
I implemented a prototypical version of this idea and did some testing and...I hated it xD
The idea sounded really cool and I though it would solve many problems, but I found that in reality it didn't really work all that well, especially for weapons with large reload sizes...
But, on the bright side, I found that simply tweaking the settings pd90_ammo and conserveAmmo_ammo works pretty well to address the issues you mentioned.
So, if you don't mind, please try setting them to e.g. 0.5 or 0.75 and see how it goes. I could also see setting them to e.g 0.75 by default.
Additionally, the new opportunist rework (which also affects the ConserveAmmo suffix) should also help alleviate the problem with the built-in hephaestus guns of the victory class, as opportunist will be slightly less conservative for weapons that can reload ammo.

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2467861266

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Re: [0.95a] AdvancedGunneryControl 0.10.2
« Reply #84 on: July 29, 2021, 09:25:11 AM »

This mod is amazing. But I think it is better to set fire mode for each weapon so no need to set each ship specifically anymore. Most of the time we just need to specify each weapon's behavior instead of a weapon group. for example, I just don't want tri-tachyon lance to fire at fighters but I don't wanna set every ship that equips tri-tachyon lance.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 09:27:15 AM by 2467861266 »
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