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[TaLaR]

Thread about Mora being OP has gathered a lot attention, but I think it's misdirected. It's not Mora, it's Talons.

Combination of being extremely cheap to reconstruct + access to swarmer missiles makes them absolutely deadly.

To make a dent in carrier's fighter recovery speed you need to pop them immediately on spawn. Anything short of that seems to be not enough , it will hover around 90%.

And due to being very fast and armed with swarmer missiles, a stream of talons will wear down anything short of Onslaught. Or at least any ship in same size class that is not 100% optimized for PD role (and even then, it's going to be a tough fight without skills).

Just try to fight Condor with 2 talons in simulator. Especially compared to carriers using any other kind of fighters.

The above of course doesn't make game not playable - just spam Talons too. But I think they need to be hit with nerf bat. Hard.

[Igncom1]

Doesn't flak just shread them like the rest?

Also their vulkan guns, they shred like crazy.

[TJJ]

Honestly it's.... (loads up SS to find the name)... Khopesh that terrify me the most.
The rockets from their annihilators are terrifyingly focused, and strip so much armour (even on heavy capitals) that you *have* to block them with your shield.

They also launch their salvos far enough out that the sheer volume of ordnance forms its own defence against your weapons.

[Megas]

Flak still kills fighters, but Talons are better than many more expensive fighters against targets without proper defenses.

A few moments ago, I experimented with a Tarsus (in missions) by stripping it and installing a hangar and a wing of fighters.  Opponents were either two Hounds or one Lasher.  Talons could kill the two Hounds by themselves.  Wasps cannot, nor can many more expensive fighters.  Against one Lasher, the Talons could sometimes kill the Lasher, sometimes not.  Wasps, Thunders, Gladii, and others cannot do - they die to Lashers weapons.  Xyphos could only do it after my Tarsus' LMGs put some hard flux on the Lashers shields.  That said, I have not tried Kohpesh yet, only the classics and maybe one of the Remnant drones.

Talons are cheaper and hit harder than other fighters once shields are down.

Personally, I think Talons are just right, and most other fighters are (still) too weak for what I pay for.

P.S.  Have not tried bombers because Converted Hangar does not give bomber refit discount, or so we were told.  Astral can pull some nasty shenanigans with bombers and Fighter Recall system.

[Midnight Kitsune]

Thread about Mora being OP has gathered a lot attention, but I think it's misdirected. It's not Mora, it's Talons.

Combination of being extremely cheap to reconstruct + access to swarmer missiles makes them absolutely deadly.

To make a dent in carrier's fighter recovery speed you need to pop them immediately on spawn. Anything short of that seems to be not enough , it will hover around 90%.

And due to being very fast and armed with swarmer missiles, a stream of talons will wear down anything short of Onslaught. Or at least any ship in same size class that is not 100% optimized for PD role (and even then, it's going to be a tough fight without skills).

Just try to fight Condor with 2 talons in simulator. Especially compared to carriers using any other kind of fighters.

The above of course doesn't make game not playable - just spam Talons too. But I think they need to be hit with nerf bat. Hard.

The reason why people hate the Mora is because Alex thought it was a GREAT idea to add the still OP as all hell D Field to a carrier armor brick that could still fight with its fighters. Talons still pop like fireworks with anything that has more than token PD and players using them basically need the carrier skills to not go bankrupt from crew losses.
SPARKS on the other hand, are OP as all hell. 5 fighters, 10 burst PDs, DRONES (no crew losses) and shielded. All for EIGHT OP.

[TaLaR]

Doesn't flak just shread them like the rest?

Also their vulkan guns, they shred like crazy.

Flak - yes, if you have enough of it.
Vulcans - no, they don't kill fast enough (because Talons are very maneuverable and Vulcans get distracted by swarmer missiles a lot) to make a dent in carrier recovery rate.

Talons are cheaper and hit harder than other fighters once shields are down.

Talons bypass any non 360 shield very easily due to speed.

SPARKS on the other hand, are OP as all hell. 5 fighters, 10 burst PDs, DRONES (no crew losses) and shielded. All for EIGHT OP.

You can get Sparks without mods?...

[Midnight Kitsune]

SPARKS on the other hand, are OP as all hell. 5 fighters, 10 burst PDs, DRONES (no crew losses) and shielded. All for EIGHT OP.

You can get Sparks without mods?...

Yes. MANY people in the discord channel have gotten them, mod free. Hell, Even the console can't spawn their LPCs! (Talk about some serious DRM!)

[Igncom1]

Doesn't flak just shread them like the rest?

Also their vulkan guns, they shred like crazy.

Flak - yes, if you have enough of it.
Vulcans - no, they don't kill fast enough (because Talons are very maneuverable and Vulcans get distracted by swarmer missiles a lot) to make a dent in carrier recovery rate.

I mean the talons own Vulcans shred, not using Vulcans for defeating them. PD lasers might be better for that, or Anti-fighter missiles if you can find some.

[Linnis]

I tried an 10 talon fleet once, after one 280k bounty I lost 40% of my crew...

So atleast in player's hands there is a price to using them.

[Megas]

Talons are cheaper and hit harder than other fighters once shields are down.

Talons bypass any non 360 shield very easily due to speed.

Sort of.  The partial shields may block enough damage that the target might kill off enough Talons before Talons kill the target.  If Lasher had no shields, one Talon wing would probably always kill the Lasher.  Sometimes, the Lasher kills enough Talons that my freighter is helpless and Lasher effectively wins.  Still, one wing of Talons being able to kill one Lasher singlehandedly some of the time while other interceptors and heavy fighter wings as a single wing cannot is something.

P.S.  I tried one wing of Sparx against Lasher.  Lasher ate them.  In my lone fighter wing vs. Lasher experiment, I only got wins with Talons or Xyphos, and Xyphos needed an assist from the mothership putting hard flux on the Lasher's shield so that Ion Beams could penetrate shields.  Talons could do the job singlehandedly.

[Thaago]

Talons are solid, but have poor hitpoints. I've had my own wings wiped many times. I have not found any Sparks or Xyphos so I can't speak to them, but imo there aren't any other fighters that are very effective against frigates. I would be happy if the current Talons were bumped to 5 OP. I would also be happy if Daggers were reduced to 15 OP and Tridents to 20 - they are a bit overpriced atm.

[Megas]

Daggers are probably overpriced because Astral can attempt to imitate 0.7 era infinite Fast Missile Racks and Salamander cheese thanks to its fighter recall special.

I would not mind Talons and Wasps swapping OP costs.  I would like Wasps for no crew, but otherwise Talons are better.

[Thaago]

And currently Wasps are a lot less potent than they could be because they don't keep their beams on target - maybe half fire at a given time.

[Megas]

@ Thaago: I remember seeing a Xyphos for sale one time, but I did not get it because I did not need two Gradius-style options hovering around the mothership as much as a solid wing that can kill things far away.

As for Wasps, they also have weird flak mines that they drop near missile fire.  They look pretty, but I have no idea how useful they really are.

[SCC]

What's more dangerous - enforcer, brawler and a sunder of 6 talon wings?
SIX TALON WINGS GODDANGIT! Constant spam of swarmers from invincible carriers is dangerous... Moras were the last to die and before that talons probably damaged most of my fleet just because there was so many of them.