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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hostile Activity (09/01/22)

Author Topic: 64-bit Java version 8  (Read 8597 times)

Squish Cat

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64-bit Java version 8
« on: April 21, 2017, 11:29:29 AM »

Looking for someone that has experience to answer a few questions relating to this.

After changing the jre files over to 64-bit Java in the Starsector folder, and set the vmparams file to use 4 gigs, I started the game only to run into an error message that says Starsector only supports version 7 of Java.  There is an option, which I located and changed, to allow any version of Java to be used in the settings.json file.  I currently have Java 8 installed, which is the version I migrated over to Starsector. I need Java 8 for a work related application and am not sure I can install Java 7 without overriding 8.  Starsector started fine and I managed to play a bit of the tutorial, but I was wondering if anyone knows if running Starsector on Java 8 is going to cause any problems.  Warning messages exist for a reason, after all.
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grinningsphinx

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 01:45:46 PM »

I tried Java 8 and while the game ran fine, my save file was corrupted.

I switch ti Java 7.80 and will see if the same issue occurs.
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TJJ

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 02:00:01 PM »

Looking for someone that has experience to answer a few questions relating to this.

After changing the jre files over to 64-bit Java in the Starsector folder, and set the vmparams file to use 4 gigs, I started the game only to run into an error message that says Starsector only supports version 7 of Java.  There is an option, which I located and changed, to allow any version of Java to be used in the settings.json file.  I currently have Java 8 installed, which is the version I migrated over to Starsector. I need Java 8 for a work related application and am not sure I can install Java 7 without overriding 8.  Starsector started fine and I managed to play a bit of the tutorial, but I was wondering if anyone knows if running Starsector on Java 8 is going to cause any problems.  Warning messages exist for a reason, after all.

If it works for you, it'll be fine.
Of course it'll cast some doubt on the cause of any future problems you may have.

That said, I'm a staunch proponent of using Java8; you just have to make sure you configure its launch parameters properly, as Java8's default GC behaves very differently to Java7's.
The specific launch parameters I use (just add them to your vmparams), are:

Code
-XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+UseParNewGC -XX:+CMSConcurrentMTEnabled -XX:+DisableExplicitGC

It's much better suited to Starsector's use case than both Java8's default GC, and Java7's GC.

FYI there's no problem having many different JREs installed; the Java Control Panel allows you to specify which is the system default
More importantly Starsector doesn't use the system JRE anyway, it uses the one in the starsector\jre folder. (or the one specified in starsector.bat/.sh)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 02:06:49 PM by TJJ »
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Alex

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 02:16:41 PM »

There were quite a few reports of java 8 outright crashing in native jvm code, so I'd strongly recommend not using it.
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arcibalde

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 02:18:55 PM »

I have Java 8 installed in standard Program Files/Java dir. Anyway, after installing Starsector 0.8 and double-clicking on exe nothing happened. So i uninstalled Java 8 and installed Java 7 but still nothing (and when i say nothing i really mean nothing like i didnt do anything, nothing starts). So, i uninstalled Java 7 then installed Java 8 in Program Files/Java dir and then i installed Java 7 in Starsector/jre. Then it worked. There was more stuff that i did, like installing Java 7 in Program Files/Java and copying jre from there to Starsector dir but that didnt work too. Anyway, after instaling 0.8 hotfix i needed to reinstall Java 7 in Starsector dir cos it didnt work again. After reinstall it worked - worked as i got into game, first screen with options for New Game, Load, Exit etc.  
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Squish Cat

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 02:28:31 PM »



FYI there's no problem having many different JREs installed; the Java Control Panel allows you to specify which is the system default
More importantly Starsector doesn't use the system JRE anyway, it uses the one in the starsector\jre folder. (or the one specified in starsector.bat/.sh)

This is good to know.  So installing Java 7 won't overwrite 8, and I'll just need to set which one my computer defaults too outside of Starsector, yes?
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Squish Cat

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 02:36:06 PM »

There were quite a few reports of java 8 outright crashing in native jvm code, so I'd strongly recommend not using it.

Also, since you're here, quick question.  Is there a reason you don't also distribute the game with java 64-bit along side of the 32-bit version?  Licensing, file size, etc?  Or some other reason?  I'm just curious for curiosities sake.
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Alex

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 02:47:40 PM »

There were quite a few reports of java 8 outright crashing in native jvm code, so I'd strongly recommend not using it.

Also, since you're here, quick question.  Is there a reason you don't also distribute the game with java 64-bit along side of the 32-bit version?  Licensing, file size, etc?  Or some other reason?  I'm just curious for curiosities sake.

For not going both? File size mostly. The JRE is a big chunk of the total. Planning to switch to 64-bit for the .8.1 release, though. Seems like more people need to install a 64-bit version than would need to install a 32-bit one, if that makes sense.
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Squish Cat

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 03:03:04 PM »


For not going both? File size mostly. The JRE is a big chunk of the total. Planning to switch to 64-bit for the .8.1 release, though. Seems like more people need to install a 64-bit version than would need to install a 32-bit one, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the reply!  I kinda figured it had to be either licensing or file size.

If it helps, it seems only a handful of people who play video games are even using 32-bit operating systems any longer.  This is a screenshot from Steam's hardware survey.

http://imgur.com/a/CQtD8

Seems only 7.17% of Windows users are using a 32-bit exclusive OS, while 100% of the Apple and Linux OSes are 64-bit.  Not saying that Steam is the defacto authority when it comes to this sort of thing, but there will very likely be heavy overlap with Steam users and people who play video games outside of Steam.  The other thing to consider too is that if you're switching over to 64-bit, it might not be a bad idea to up the memory usage in the vmparams to at least 2 gigs.  I think most people are going to have at least 8 gigs of memory now if they play video games.  Just a thought.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 03:09:19 PM by Squish Cat »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 06:02:02 PM »


For not going both? File size mostly. The JRE is a big chunk of the total. Planning to switch to 64-bit for the .8.1 release, though. Seems like more people need to install a 64-bit version than would need to install a 32-bit one, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the reply!  I kinda figured it had to be either licensing or file size.

If it helps, it seems only a handful of people who play video games are even using 32-bit operating systems any longer.  This is a screenshot from Steam's hardware survey.

http://imgur.com/a/CQtD8

Seems only 7.17% of Windows users are using a 32-bit exclusive OS, while 100% of the Apple and Linux OSes are 64-bit.  Not saying that Steam is the defacto authority when it comes to this sort of thing, but there will very likely be heavy overlap with Steam users and people who play video games outside of Steam.  The other thing to consider too is that if you're switching over to 64-bit, it might not be a bad idea to up the memory usage in the vmparams to at least 2 gigs.  I think most people are going to have at least 8 gigs of memory now if they play video games.  Just a thought.
The ability to switch JREs or at least up mem usage in the launcher would be nice.
Also, you'd be surpirsed how many people are still using 4Gigs of RAM
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Soychi

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Re: 64-bit Java version 8
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 07:31:17 PM »


Seems only 7.17% of Windows users are using a 32-bit exclusive OS, while 100% of the Apple and Linux OSes are 64-bit.  Not saying that Steam is the defacto authority when it comes to this sort of thing, but there will very likely be heavy overlap with Steam users and people who play video games outside of Steam.  The other thing to consider too is that if you're switching over to 64-bit, it might not be a bad idea to up the memory usage in the vmparams to at least 2 gigs.  I think most people are going to have at least 8 gigs of memory now if they play video games.  Just a thought.
agreed. When I last went to buy a computer 3 years ago I was encouraged to get something with 8 gigs, and I was shopping for a laptop to play games with in the 800-1000 dollar range.
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