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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: New player  (Read 10349 times)

Elaron

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New player
« on: December 20, 2016, 08:44:32 PM »

Just want to say "Hi". Found the game through Nemo's videos, and bought it based on what I saw. Steep learning curve, but satisfying to climb. Tried a vanilla game, then loaded it up with mods, and instantly fell in love with Blackrock and Mayorate ships. And, of course, the big 0.8 update is on the horizon.

Still trying to find missiles I like, but I suspect that "reloading", "fast", "small / medium mount", and "decent tracking" isn't a common combo (for good reason!).
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Thaago

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Re: New player
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2016, 09:12:04 PM »

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

Swarmers are small, fast, with good tracking, and have tons of ammo, but don't do very much damage and have low hitpoints. They are HE however, so pretty darn effective against frigates and destroyers with bad armor. I usually just leave them on autofire as I'm lazy...
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Doom101

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Re: New player
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2016, 11:34:05 PM »

They don't track, but annihilator rockets are my favorite, who needs tracking when you can just fill the whole field with missiles?

( pro tip, aiming usually leads to multiple hits even without tracking)
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Morgan Rue

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Re: New player
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2016, 12:19:35 AM »

Theres also salamanders, but they do almost entirely EMP damage.
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Elaron

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Re: New player
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2016, 12:10:29 PM »

I like Salamanders on one or two ships, to spread some flameout love among the enemy, but their lack of ability to otherwise apply shield/flux pressure or a killing crunch does relegate them to a niche role.

Tracking is certainly less of an issue for forward-firing mounts, but some ships (eg the Nevermore) have side-firing mounts on otherwise front-loaded ships. I could put Salamanders on those, with the front missile mounts tasked otherwise, but more different kinds of weapons has its own drawbacks. I could always leave them empty, or use PD missile weapons, but that doesn't seem very satisfying.

I'll keep looking at what drops / is available to buy from various markets. I'm sure there will be systems that fit most of my criteria!
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Sy

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Re: New player
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2016, 01:56:49 PM »

welcome!

missiles that reload, do good damage and are good at hitting things don't really work from a balance perspective, especially for the very common small missile mounts. the main drawback of most damaging missiles is that you can (usually) only use them to add burst damage or hit a target outside your normal weapon range, but the limited ammo prevents you from using them as a primary weapon.

there are still a few missiles that you can just keep on autofire and that don't just do EMP or fragmentation damage:
  • Blackrock has the Scalaron Pulse Launchers (small and medium). their missiles are very slow, so they are not good at hitting fast targets. but they have good tracking, are hard to shoot down with PD, and they hurt when they do hit. the small version only fires for about a minute at full rate, but they never run out entirely, and the Expanded Missile Racks hullmod helps as well.
  • Tiandong Heavy Industries has Muscle LRM for small and Apsis LRT for medium mounts. they have long firing delays, but aren't based on ammo (similar to Salamanders) and have very long range. Muscle has very low dps, but its other advantages still make it quite useful against lightly armored targets. Apsis being a "long-range torpedo" is easily avoided by small targets, but it's mobile enough to rather reliably hit larger targets, and does a lot of damage with each hit.
  • Diable Avionics' Thrush LRM (medium) also has large ammo stores, is fast and has very long range. the main missiles will usually miss small targets, but they explode into a cluster of Micro Missiles if they pass by the target they were aiming for.
  • Junk Pirates' Grapeshot (despite doing fragmentation damage) and Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering's AMM Blisters are really good for small mounts... but i actually feel they're both somewhat overpowered, so i don't like using them, personally.

i hope that helps a bit. if you have any other questions, or just feel like chatting, there's almost always someone online in our Unofficial Discord Server for either. :]
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Megas

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Re: New player
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2016, 02:08:02 PM »

Salamanders used to do much more damage.  Still fragmentation damage, but that did not matter when enough attackers launch them en masse and defending ships that lost armor took full damage (plus EMP), which was not much less than a Harpoon.

For one release, when Salamanders first became unlimited, Fast Missile Racks were unlimited too, and ships with that system could spam Salamanders non-stop and kill enemy ships without ever seeing them.  Soon after, Fast Missile Racks got charges to break the combination with unlimited missiles.

Salamanders are still very good, and they can still deliver the killing blow occasionally.
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King Alfonzo

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Re: New player
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2016, 03:06:14 PM »

Another good missile system (if you can get it) is the Mayorate Laserhead. From memory it reloads like a salamander (infinite ammo), and when it explodes, it shoots a laser at the enemy ship. Useful for pressuring enemy shields on anything bigger than a destroyer, but also really good at clipping the side of a strafing ship with front shields. Sucks against frigates; they usually move out of the way of the laser.

Also, do not under estimate the Mayorate Tornado AOE missile. That thing is DANGEROUS when used properly.

stormbringer951

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Re: New player
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2016, 07:17:06 AM »

Check the codex on weapons and look through all the missile weapons for small mounts. Best weapons depend a lot on hull and intended role, but I would recommend having a look at:
  • Diamonddust MRMs (kinetic submunition missiles) from the AI War mod pressure very well.
  • Traceurs LRMs from Dassault Mikoyan are more or less superior salamanders (more EMP damage, more frag damage, and a beginning magazine) which will probably be nerfed soon.
  • Muscle LRMs or micro missiles en masse.
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Weapons Group Controls mod - deselect all weapon groups, hold-down hold-fire mode, toggle alternating/linked fire
Captain's Log - throw away your notepad: custom notes, ruins and salvageable reminders
Old Hyperion - for your dose of nostalgia
Adjustable Skill Thresholds - set fleet DP and fighter bay thresholds

Harmful Mechanic

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Re: New player
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 06:14:33 PM »

Traceurs LRMs from Dassault Mikoyan are more or less superior salamanders (more EMP damage, more frag damage, and a beginning magazine) which will probably be nerfed soon.

Thus far, just the speed (550>450). But I will be doing some testing of the scripted damage and magazine numbers as well.
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Elaron

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Re: New player
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 07:56:07 PM »

Thanks for the suggestions all! I can appreciate the balance reasons for why most missile launchers, especially small / medium ones, have only 2 or 3 attributes from my wishlist. But it doesn't stop me from having the wishlist!

I'll also join the Discord server and say "Hi" from time to time!
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Elaron

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Re: New player
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2016, 05:59:45 PM »

I think I may have had my opinion of Darts adversely coloured by trying to use them in the mission "Waking the Beast" to deal with the frigates that move aggressively to flank. I probably wasn't spending enough rounds per frigate, plus I think the missiles had a tendency to go for targets other than my selected one.

Still, I gave them another go in the simulator a short while ago and I do need to re-evaluate them. I also may have not given them a fair shake due to their generous, but still limited ammunition. I have a bad habit of hoarding limited-use resources in almost every game I play.
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Elaron

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Re: New player
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2016, 11:25:29 PM »

"Finite" would have been a better description of their ammunition; 126 rounds is a good amount, but still easy to burn through. In "Waking the Beast", the default loadout of the Karkinos has four, and they're about the only things that can engage the half-dozen frigates that aggressively move on the ship's rear.

I do like the Wolf myself, finding it more suited to my playstyle than the Lasher. Short-distance teleports are definitely an advantage.
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Seth

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Re: New player
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 10:04:00 AM »

Since thread is already exists, I wanna chime in with related question:
Can you guys recommend me some fast missiles (preferably not rockets or torpedoes) with infinite or huge magazine, from medium to small size that does good job at overwhelming shields specifically? Don't care much about damage or anything else.
P.S. I've got most (balanced) faction mods.
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Sy

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Re: New player
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 12:20:39 PM »

Since thread is already exists, I wanna chime in with related question:
as with the original question in this thread, missiles that 1) have tracking, 2) are fast, 3) deal good damage and 4) aren't severely limited by ammo just don't really work, balance-wise. missiles with high or even unlimited ammo are generally only for support, not for dealing reliable damage.

vanilla Squall (large) is maybe closest to what you're looking for, but it currently has some issues (that should be fixed in 0.8). BRDY Quills (small and medium) are pretty good, but are unguided rockets. vanilla, Shadowyards Reconstruction Authority and Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering all have ammo-limited but otherwise powerful anti-shield missiles.
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