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Author Topic: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability  (Read 4565 times)

Morgan Rue

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Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« on: December 19, 2016, 05:32:46 PM »

Limit the military markets to only faction commission holders, and have them have a much larger number/variety of ships with a significant discount on ships that faction produces. If you are holding a commission from a faction, you are acting as a part of that factions military, and have the access that any other patrol or strike fleet commander would have. Limited by what high command is willing to give you, of course.
Add another market, "Military Surplus", which can contain any ship that the normal military market can have, but has less ships in general. The only requirement for purchases from military surplus markets is relations, and, of course, credits. You do not have to have a commission to buy from a military surplus market. After all, whats the harm in selling a surplus Onslaught to a highly trusted independent fleet commander? For a hefty sum of credits of course. They'll surely do some good with it.

 I think this would greatly help ease expensive losses for the player an make losing ships in fleet actions generally less painful.

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Dauntless.

Cik

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 09:01:02 PM »

there needs to be a system for concrete ship production, and then ways to earmark ships for yourself from that supply, as well as demand (ask)? them to build you a certain ship they are capable of constructing, for lots of money and/or reputation.

"cleaning" out markets doesn't make any sense, and is only there because of systems that are entirely undeveloped. ships shouldn't be randomly generated. it's too random and makes no sense.
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Megas

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2016, 06:26:09 AM »

Limit the military markets to only faction commission holders, and have them have a much larger number/variety of ships with a significant discount on ships that faction produces. If you are holding a commission from a faction, you are acting as a part of that factions military, and have the access that any other patrol or strike fleet commander would have. Limited by what high command is willing to give you, of course.
Add another market, "Military Surplus", which can contain any ship that the normal military market can have, but has less ships in general. The only requirement for purchases from military surplus markets is relations, and, of course, credits. You do not have to have a commission to buy from a military surplus market. After all, whats the harm in selling a surplus Onslaught to a highly trusted independent fleet commander? For a hefty sum of credits of course. They'll surely do some good with it.
This is already in the game, annoyingly.  Aside from a few basic frigates, military market is effectively locked to commission holders.  Nearly every useful ship and weapon is locked behind commission.  This makes reputation with factions that require commission almost useless.  Military market could already be military surplus for all we know.  Probably why the good stuff lower than capitals is so rare yet common in factions' fleets and junk like Hammerheads are so common for sale.  It is like "Ha! We have all the good stuff, but you can buy these junky Hammerheads that nobody wants.  Oh, due to game regulations, we must have a capital available for surplus at all times.  Here's an Onslaught if you can afford it."

It would be nice if commission did not block so much.  Maybe just remove commission requirements, but lower maximum relations possible until you get commission.  At least things up to destroyer size would be accessible if faction is friendly enough.

Being able to earmark ships would be nice.  Closest thing we have for that is attacking one of your faction's fleets and boarding that ship.

I hope the game will feature blueprints and factories to build the ships a player wants.  Find world with an abandoned or hidden autofactory, colonize it, obtain blueprints from elsewhere, and start cranking out ships and weapons!  Maybe not obvious faction specialties like XIV or Pather ships but standard hulls.  Maybe an industry skill would boost your manufactured ships to the level of faction specialties.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2016, 07:51:12 AM »

If you think that, I'd say it's working exactly as intended.
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Techhead

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2016, 09:39:07 AM »

"Ha! We have all the good stuff, but you can buy these junky Hammerheads that nobody wants.  Oh, due to game regulations, we must have a capital available for surplus at all times.  Here's an Onslaught if you can afford it."
Game regulations? I think you mean "Our PR department's Commission Incentive Initiativeā„¢".
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Morgan Rue

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2016, 11:12:54 AM »

Are commission holders actually considered to be part of a factions military? I just sort of assumed and didn't really check, but I don't know where I would check such a thing.
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Megas

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2016, 01:28:43 PM »

Game regulations? I think you mean "Our PR department's Commission Incentive Initiativeā„¢".
I did not spend much time thinking of a better phrase.  Game regulations is blunt and to the point, despite breaking fourth wall.

Are commission holders actually considered to be part of a factions military? I just sort of assumed and didn't really check, but I don't know where I would check such a thing.
There probably is no definitive answer, but since you need commission to buy the vast majority of ships/weapons in military market, they might as well be.
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PCCL

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2016, 03:57:16 PM »

Are commission holders actually considered to be part of a factions military? I just sort of assumed and didn't really check, but I don't know where I would check such a thing.

considering you don't actually follow orders or anything, I'm guessing it's more of a privateering type deal
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Darloth

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 03:26:45 PM »

Seems to be basically a letter of marque situation since they pay you for enemy ships destroyed...
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Voyager I

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 10:29:52 PM »

Seems to be basically a letter of marque situation since they pay you for enemy ships destroyed...

Seems to be the best analogue.  You are authorized to attack their enemies on their behalf, and they will allow you access to normally restricted hardware to facilitate this, but you are not a part of their formal military structure; you don't receive orders, you aren't paid a salary, and they don't provide you with any direct material support.
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Sy

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 06:35:20 AM »

i also feel there needs to be some change to how much rarity affects which ships you can get. there should certainly be differences in how commonly a ship is found, but when you're maxed out in reputation and would be willing and able to pay millions of credits just for a single specific ship, i think you really should be able to get it without still having to pray to RNGesus for hours.


you don't receive orders, you aren't paid a salary, and they don't provide you with any direct material support.
yep. and if you do something stupid, they'll deny having had anything to do with it.
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xenoargh

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 10:03:46 AM »

Quote
there needs to be a system for concrete ship production, and then ways to earmark ships for yourself from that supply, as well as demand (ask)? them to build you a certain ship they are capable of constructing, for lots of money and/or reputation.

"cleaning" out markets doesn't make any sense, and is only there because of systems that are entirely undeveloped. ships shouldn't be randomly generated. it's too random and makes no sense.
This.  It just adds un-fun grind to the game.
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Morrokain

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Re: Military Markets, Ship Costs and Replacability
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2017, 01:20:06 PM »

Quote
there needs to be a system for concrete ship production, and then ways to earmark ships for yourself from that supply, as well as demand (ask)? them to build you a certain ship they are capable of constructing, for lots of money and/or reputation.

"cleaning" out markets doesn't make any sense, and is only there because of systems that are entirely undeveloped. ships shouldn't be randomly generated. it's too random and makes no sense.
This.  It just adds un-fun grind to the game.

I think it makes sense to limit faction military market access to reputation unlocks only and have commissions either the "top tier" requirement as Megas has suggested before, or a separate thing all together that just mitigates ship losses slightly when fighting that factions enemies.

But as far as what's available on those markets?... if it doesn't work this way already only those ships and weapons the faction actually uses (more technically: only those weapon ids contained in the variant files linked to fleet generation through the faction file) should be available on the military markets for that faction. The black market can have a very small, VERY overpriced, randomness beyond that. I am talking like one or two rare random ships or weapons per market. Think the scene in Aladdin where the street hawker runs after you yelling like "wait, wait I have something extra special!"

The rest of the black market should be discounted general weapons (tier 0) that pirates typically use, D-class ships, cheaper supplies and fuel and finally an assortment of, again VERY overpriced, military market ships and weapons that would normally be locked behind that factions rep, besides the top tier stuff of course.

Imo, seeing random weapons and ships outside the faction in their markets just really breaks the game world's immersion. I always cringe a little seeing the Phase Lance on Jangala when I start a new game because I just don't see the Hegemony really selling one. If anything, they would destroy it if they didn't use it themselves because they wouldn't want to see it on a TriTachyon vessel later on after selling it to some independent trader.

**edit** Yeah not the best example I know, remembering that Heg eagles actually use Phase Lances... but you get the idea  :P

With so many new markets and worlds opening up with the Cartography post, I think this kind of market generation is pretty supportable too without locking the player out from too much. It also makes exploring new factions' markets more enticing and rewarding.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 01:48:08 PM by Morrokain »
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