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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 639222 times)

Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1650 on: May 18, 2017, 10:37:03 AM »

I get that, handling multiple independent moving layers of background terrain was my #1 most hated thing back when I was designing stuff that weren't for me and will never ever do again.
Which leaves me thinking that the only real solution that could make mobile Omni-shield ships viable for me, aside from just omni-weapons (altho my time in a condor suggests that doesn't help much either) would be a hullmod or something that allowed me to order my second in command to control shields in-combat
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1651 on: May 18, 2017, 10:41:54 AM »

I'd say that omni shield is highly dependent on the weapon group you're controlling. Hard-points or missiles make it that you just have to point your ship the right way with keyboard and point your shield with mouse. Turreted firegroups are going to be impossible to aim because you either aim correctly weapons or shield, but not both.

Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1652 on: May 18, 2017, 10:49:54 AM »

I'd say that omni shield is highly dependent on the weapon group you're controlling. Hard-points or missiles make it that you just have to point your ship the right way with keyboard and point your shield with mouse. Turreted firegroups are going to be impossible to aim because you either aim correctly weapons or shield, but not both.

Even hardpoints, I find. I can't aim the dual triple auto cannons on my eagle if I put Omni shields on it unless I'm %100 concentrating the movement and orientation of my eagle on its cannons, at which point I might as well have fixed shields anyway. I think maybe the problem wouldn't be so pronounced if it weren't for the AI appearing to have no trouble doing both.
But, that's not incredibly helpful a thing to point out cause the AI already needs as many edges as it can get against a human player. It just would be helpful to some if they were able to leverage a bit of that point-perfect shield slinging the AI can do casually from time to time without having to surrender player agency entirely to do so
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1653 on: May 18, 2017, 01:21:52 PM »

I thought that the AI uses autofire for its weapons, not that it has a "mouse" that it aims at - it has the same tools as the player, if not less. Perhaps its just me, but I haven't manually aimed a weapon (other than pointing my ship at the enemy for hardpoints) in years so I have no trouble with omni shields.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1654 on: May 18, 2017, 01:25:50 PM »

It doesn't always, but it could to achieve that effect, so whether or not it does is just a minor implementation detail.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1655 on: May 19, 2017, 12:06:42 AM »

Alex, you aren't planning on disabling friendly fire for bombs, are you? I ask because when I'm piloting an Aurora I've been repeatedly flying into Flashes' bombs because I either don't spot them in time or because they missed their target and hit me. It's a bit worse because GUI doesn't show they're bombs because they're "yours" and your PD doesn't shoot them, but they hit you all the same. I suspect that if I used a frigate it would be even worse.

kobeathris

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1656 on: May 19, 2017, 06:28:43 AM »

Alex, you aren't planning on disabling friendly fire for bombs, are you? I ask because when I'm piloting an Aurora I've been repeatedly flying into Flashes' bombs because I either don't spot them in time or because they missed their target and hit me. It's a bit worse because GUI doesn't show they're bombs because they're "yours" and your PD doesn't shoot them, but they hit you all the same. I suspect that if I used a frigate it would be even worse.

I think Bombs in general are kind of weird. They seem either totally ineffective or hilariously overpowered. I'd almost rather see them become mines instead and add a command to lay a mine field in a certain area. This could open up some different tactics as it would allow for a form of battle field control. They could be used to funnel ships into a kill zone, or screen a retreat.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1657 on: May 19, 2017, 08:03:38 AM »

Bombs are not the only one; that is one of the disadvantages of non-guided... anything.  There were few times I took Swarmers instead of Annihilators because the Swarmers can pass through ships.  Handy when you want to send about thirty frigates against a tough cruiser or capital, but only ten or so can attack the target while the rest hover in a back-line waiting for their turn.

As for funneling enemy ships into minefields, will that even be effective given how omniscient and fiendishly the AI acts now?
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kobeathris

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1658 on: May 19, 2017, 09:28:34 AM »

I wasn't thinking of funneling into minefields, but how you could use minefields as a funnel so that you had superior local firepower. Like, if you had a small fleet with a few mine layers against a larger fleet that wants to press the attack, you could limit where they could engage.
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Toxcity

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1659 on: May 19, 2017, 10:07:16 AM »

Bombs could use some sort of color change so they are more noticeable or some jets (like the Reaper got) to be more noticeable.

As for bombs being effective in some situations and useless in others, isn't that bombers working as intended?
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Kwbr

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1660 on: May 19, 2017, 05:58:06 PM »

Bombs seem fine imo, the dark color makes them a threat if they're coming from the enemy and you aren't paying attention. The main problem I have with them is more the bombers fun habit of dropping them directly behind you instead of plotting their attack run on a course that doesn't result in them carpet bombing your flagship. Any bomber with any sort of unguided ordnance is nigh unusable currently unless you like running the risk of severe friendly fire.
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Linnis

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1661 on: May 19, 2017, 10:35:02 PM »

...fun habit of dropping them directly behind you...

I noticed this alot also...
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1662 on: May 19, 2017, 11:32:05 PM »

Bombs seem fine imo, the dark color makes them a threat if they're coming from the enemy and you aren't paying attention.
I don't have problems with those, I always spot them because I pan my view towards enemy. Bombs from my bombers, on the other hand, are hard to spot because they come from behind, exactly where you're not looking because enemy is ahead, not behind. That's why I hated being hit by bombs from my bombers, they literally hit me from nowhere.

Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1663 on: May 20, 2017, 04:31:42 AM »

Yeah, bombers need to 1) lead their target and 2) try avoiding friendly fire.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1664 on: May 20, 2017, 05:03:13 AM »

My view is that the risk of friendly fire is inherent with swarms of dumb bombs. They are very price-efficient tools otherwise, I think it is an appropriate part of their balance. If you don't want friendly fire use high-tech torpedo bombers. In this case mechanics and lore work well together.
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