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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 639172 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #165 on: December 12, 2016, 11:32:16 AM »

just a quick question ... will/can something be done about maneuverability of fleets? (both in the star system and in hyperspace) ... in battle it takes quite a bit of time to do 360 turn in Onslaught, but on the main map fleet full of Onslaughts changes course just as fast as frigate-only wolfpack fleet. Sure, the max speed/burn is different, but quite often the AI fleets are able to do really uncanny dodge maneuvers, especially when coupled with the maximum burn ability (and their total disregard for supplies/fuel needs)

Forgot to reply here: probably not, no. That's all pretty much working like it's supposed to, and emergency burn in particular gives a boost to acceleration, as it's meant to be used for these kinds of maneuvers.
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Linnis

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #166 on: December 12, 2016, 04:19:06 PM »

high tech trading! I like that!
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #167 on: December 12, 2016, 04:21:07 PM »

The Persean League, yes. (If it helps, I pronounce it "Per-see-an", as in a word derived from the name Perseus.)

Oh, interesting. That implies some things about the extent of the Domain, and maybe even about the location of the Sector. The Perseus arm is the closest spiral arm to the Orion arm (which is home to Sol). It's about 5000 light years from us, in the direction from the galactic center away. If there's a faction in the Sector named after it, then the Sector is either in it, or the faction is powerful enough to have spread across the Domain. Something to look out for in the lore :)
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #168 on: December 12, 2016, 11:55:05 PM »

I don't know, that's one of the major arms of Milky Way Galaxy and quite huuuuuge...

Warning: below contains some random slightly-out-of-context calculations done by me.
Spoiler
The Domain is said to be "Spanning hundreds of thousands of worlds in the Milky Way" according to the State of Affair, now sort-of-obsolote piece of lore but I will risk a guess that this part remained the same.

Assuming by "hundreds of thousands" it meant literally, Domain had n * 10^7 planets under control. Milky Way Galaxy is estimated to have few hundreds of billions(n * 10^11) of planets.

Maintaining above assumption, we can see Domain had n * 1/10^4 = 0.0n% of our Galaxy as its territory. Which is pretty impressive number - something more than a small dot in a picture of entire Milky Way Galaxy.

For easy calculation, assume all stars in our Galaxy are in a single plane(it is not) and distributed evenly(again, certainly not). Our galaxy has diameter of 100~180kly. Taking the median 140kly, dividing it by 2 to get radius(70kly). To have a circle 0.01% of the area of a circle 70kly radius, its radius has to be 700ly.
The numbers would be several parsecs off but we got some sense of scale :/

Part of the Perseus Arm closest to the Sol is 6400ly antiradial away, 10 times further from what I have assumed, but might be plausible.
[close]
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 12:12:45 AM by Aron0621 »
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Cik

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #169 on: December 13, 2016, 01:14:12 AM »

nothing really says that the domain of the domain (heh) has to be contiguous. whatever very-long-distance-FTL is or was in service may enable travel of arbitrary distances, which is why there's nothing of interest past the core of the sector; domain finds interesting worlds using very-long-range-FTL sensor, domain hops in, settles it and then links it through whatever means.

the persean league could very well be from the perseus arm without necessarily having control of everything between here and there.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #170 on: December 13, 2016, 03:31:30 AM »

Quote from: Alex
Battles leave behind short-duration debris fields that can be scavenged

Do AI fleets scavenge, or are the maybe even specialized scavenger fleets? Sound like fighting/racing other weak fleets for access to debris fields could be a fun early game activity.


nothing really says that the domain of the domain (heh) has to be contiguous. whatever very-long-distance-FTL is or was in service may enable travel of arbitrary distances, which is why there's nothing of interest past the core of the sector; domain finds interesting worlds using very-long-range-FTL sensor, domain hops in, settles it and then links it through whatever means.

the persean league could very well be from the perseus arm without necessarily having control of everything between here and there.

I'm pretty sure that's how it is. I imagine the Domain send a gate-ship in a promising cluster very far away (years of travel), connect it to the gate network, and then expand outwards from the new gate. If the theory is correct, that's the reason why we have a Sector (probably many Sectors) in the first place, instead of continuous settled territory. And why our Sector is cut off from the rest of the Domain upon gate failure.

That they probably settled in the Perseus arm just tells us something about the reach of the Domain, not about the total settled volume of space or number of stars.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 03:40:57 AM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Cik

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #171 on: December 13, 2016, 04:13:47 AM »

if that is so they've come a long way.

looking for something, perhaps?
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ChaseBears

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #172 on: December 13, 2016, 04:57:46 AM »

There's also the Perseus constellation and the various Perseid stars :^)
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #173 on: December 13, 2016, 06:01:45 AM »

...right. I wasn't thinking about the gates.

How wide was our Sector(more specifically, our Core World area)?
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #174 on: December 13, 2016, 09:08:43 AM »

...right. I wasn't thinking about the gates.

How wide was our Sector(more specifically, our Core World area)?


According to the cartography blogpost (things might change), the Sector core seems to be about 18x10 light years  across. The entire Sector encompasses about 72x48 ly.

For reference, here's a picture of a 25ly(diameter) volume around the sun (what might have been the Domain's core worlds).

Spoiler
[close]


There's also the Perseus constellation and the various Perseid stars :^)

Right, but constellations are perspectivic and only make sense from the viewpoint of one system (i.e. Sol). Case in point, the Perseus constellation contains stars that are as close as 30, and as far as 2000ly from Sol. I'd assume that they'd lose their relevance for an interstellar civilization. I mean, it's of course possible that the Persian league is just from Alpha Persei or some such, but the spiral arm seems more likely to me as the source of the name.


if that is so they've come a long way.

looking for something, perhaps?

Maybe... Although for a civilization with slow hyperspace travel and instant hypergate travel spreading your gates as far as possible is simply the most efficient way for expansion, I believe. It means that all your territories can expand evenly in all directions, instead of bordering on each other and thus mutually restraining their growth.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 09:26:54 AM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #175 on: December 13, 2016, 09:39:26 AM »

Quote from: Alex
Battles leave behind short-duration debris fields that can be scavenged

Do AI fleets scavenge, or are the maybe even specialized scavenger fleets? Sound like fighting/racing other weak fleets for access to debris fields could be a fun early game activity.

Thinking along similar lines, yeah. Not in the game right now, but definitely considering if/how to add those kinds of things in.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #176 on: December 13, 2016, 02:11:07 PM »

SALVAGE RIG! YAY!

My gut reaction is this seems small, seeing as you're burning supplies dragging it out there, and additional supplies to deploy it, and you're likely needing escorts to keep it safe.
Yeah, I'm not sure this will stay in actually. It has some other problems - it's either always worth it to deploy the rig, or always not, depending on the battle size.

I love the idea of this mechanic! I hope it will stay in, pending whatever adjustments to the numbers are needed to make it worthwhile for people willing to lug around a rig in their fleet. It's really cool because it adds a meta-objective to combat for the player: deploy/defend your salvage rig. (and for the AI, to destroy it.) Just for veracity pirate fleets should also sometimes deploy a rig in combat.

Combat needs more stuff like this that the player and AI can both deploy for advantage. It gives both teams something to hunt and something to defend, which overall adds much more options to the way combat can play out.

Here are some more things like that:
-Sensor ship that provide sensor radius increase to all friendlies on the map while deployed.
-Scout ships that improve speed/maneuverability and nebular navigation to all friendlies on combat map (and buffs in campaign map)
-Telemetry spotter ships that provide buffs to missile accuracy and gunfire accuracy/damage to all friendly ships within a certain distance of telemetry ship. (so you'd assign these ships to escort heavy hitters a lot)
-Troop ship that increase chance of successful boarding if deployed to battle. (you didn't deploy the troop ship? Then you can't use it in the post battle boarding dialogue. Don't remember current status of boarding dialogue)
-Medical ships that reduce crew fatalities in/after combat while deployed (if crew even still exist in the game)
-Command and Control ships that increase command points and speed at which friendly ships respond to new orders and do something good to CR. (every capital ship would have this, think of those pits full of guys with computers in  star destroyers)

Notice a pattern? It's all replacing stuff that is currently combat map objectives, which don't make sense and aren't particularly fun, or XP skills, which are unbalanced and just reward hours played by the player character, rather than real skill building by the actual player. Basically I think skills are totally wrong for this kind of game. Growth and improved capabilities should come through learning to play the game better, coming up with better strategies, and getting/deploying new and better ships. Not "XP skills" which are points for grinding that magically let you "upgrade your X by Y%" They make sense in a table top RPG, but not in a game that uses the arrow keys.


*Note since officers aren't actual humans who can grow better at the game, there might be more potential for the XP and skills for the officer characters rather than the human player character.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 02:14:49 PM by nomadic_leader »
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Nick XR

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #177 on: December 13, 2016, 02:35:18 PM »

SALVAGE RIG! YAY!

My gut reaction is this seems small, seeing as you're burning supplies dragging it out there, and additional supplies to deploy it, and you're likely needing escorts to keep it safe.
Yeah, I'm not sure this will stay in actually. It has some other problems - it's either always worth it to deploy the rig, or always not, depending on the battle size.

I love the idea of this mechanic! I hope it will stay in, pending whatever adjustments to the numbers are needed to make it worthwhile for people willing to lug around a rig in their fleet. It's really cool because it adds a meta-objective to combat for the player: deploy/defend your salvage rig. (and for the AI, to destroy it.) Just for veracity pirate fleets should also sometimes deploy a rig in combat.

Combat needs more stuff like this that the player and AI can both deploy for advantage. It gives both teams something to hunt and something to defend, which overall adds much more options to the way combat can play out.

Here are some more things like that:
-Sensor ship that provide sensor radius increase to all friendlies on the map while deployed.
-Scout ships that improve speed/maneuverability and nebular navigation to all friendlies on combat map (and buffs in campaign map)
-Telemetry spotter ships that provide buffs to missile accuracy and gunfire accuracy/damage to all friendly ships within a certain distance of telemetry ship. (so you'd assign these ships to escort heavy hitters a lot)
-Troop ship that increase chance of successful boarding if deployed to battle. (you didn't deploy the troop ship? Then you can't use it in the post battle boarding dialogue. Don't remember current status of boarding dialogue)
-Medical ships that reduce crew fatalities in/after combat while deployed (if crew even still exist in the game)
-Command and Control ships that increase command points and speed at which friendly ships respond to new orders and do something good to CR. (every capital ship would have this, think of those pits full of guys with computers in  star destroyers)

Notice a pattern? It's all replacing stuff that is currently combat map objectives, which don't make sense and aren't particularly fun, or XP skills, which are unbalanced and just reward hours played by the player character, rather than real skill building by the actual player. Basically I think skills are totally wrong for this kind of game. Growth and improved capabilities should come through learning to play the game better, coming up with better strategies, and getting/deploying new and better ships. Not "XP skills" which are points for grinding that magically let you "upgrade your X by Y%" They make sense in a table top RPG, but not in a game that uses the arrow keys.


*Note since officers aren't actual humans who can grow better at the game, there might be more potential for the XP and skills for the officer characters rather than the human player character.

The force multiplier ships could be interesting, but having to keep them within the proper distance of other ships is a non-starter because the player doesn't have that kind of fine-grained control of ship location(this isn't StarCraft).  As far as deploying salvage ships and what not, when would you deploy those?  In a close battle with lots of salvage to be had where you will only win if you go all out, or one where the fight is a guarenteed win?  Probably only in the "win" scenario, at which point it's a non-choice masquerading as a choice and you shouldn't have to deal with it.  Maybe a general force multiplier ship could still be useful, but the bonus would have to be significant enough to outweigh any individual dead-weight that a ship not kitted for combat brings.  So in theory it looks good, but I have doubts if it actually would add anything in practice.

Perhaps salvaging a debris field after combat that takes a bit of time and would leave fleets that were attacked suffering from some sort of disadvantage if combat breaks out (like fewer deployment points, further away from map objectives).  I like all of the campaign map bonuses that ships could provide, I think that's where there's lots of low-hanging fruit to be had with adding content.  Combat is pretty great as it.

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #178 on: December 13, 2016, 02:39:01 PM »

I might bring a salvage rig if it meant finding more rare weapons like Light Needlers or Atropos.  I would not bring salvage rigs just to harvest more supplies, unless I get much more, but then that has the "...always worth it to deploy..." problem.

Construction/Salvage rig is ugly.  I hope bringing a rig is not mandatory to be optimal, not unlike Diablo characters wearing ugly helms or accessories (like an ugly green skull) and look stupid because they are the best with much better stats than everything else.  Already, I always bring tugs when I have ships with burn of 8.  If tugs can use Augmented Drive Field, I will probably use more tugs because many more ships can get burn 9.

All combat objectives are to me are ways to exploit AI and/or as a CP generator later in the battle (let enemy take it, then take it back for more CP).  I prefer no objectives for a nice clean fight.  No tricks, no distractions, just raw smackdown.
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David

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #179 on: December 13, 2016, 03:21:36 PM »

Construction/Salvage rig is ugly.

(I've redrawn it, btw.)
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