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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 639202 times)

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #150 on: December 11, 2016, 12:06:30 PM »

Just don't go aRPG with the loot/mods/weapons—the moment I see a Thunderous Arbalest of the Techno-Gods, I'm out!
Like in the Diablo series?  If so, I do not blame you.  That way leads to a few top-tier items while the rest are junk, and the game is multiplayer, the best gets duped.  It is not a pleasant experience, except possibly for the lucky elite that gets the perfect item and use it for max damage PvE.
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Questionable

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #151 on: December 11, 2016, 12:15:19 PM »

and it would require a lot more to sell it from the point of view of the moving ship.
The same distortion effect that is used during explosions in the graphics lib mod, could be used for the distortion effect, the only problem is that it's not a simple distortion from the center point, similarly the warp travel trail could also be a small distortion trail, much like hot air distorting the background. Only real concern is how much of a performance drain the fancy distortion effect would be compared to simple particle trails.

But, really, coming back to my prior point, "warp" and "sustained burn" are just fundamentally different, not one being a slight tweak of the other.
They can be as different as you make them to be. Really my original idea was that balance wise and gameplay wise they would be pretty much the same, with the only real difference being "the feeling" of using it would give.
Here is a picture of why I think they are relatively the same from a balance standpoint. https://s28.postimg.org/os6bhvqx9/exxample.jpg

Maybe I should just try to make a mod for this later on and not pester the dev.

Let's assume it was all perfectly balanced - which, as you note, is unlikely to be the case if there's a lot of it. Then an extra bit of customization is either an important decision or it's not. If it's not an important decision (and, ok, this is not a well-defined concept, but let's roll with it) then it's just adding noise, making it harder for the player to see what's actually important. This may be ok to some degree if it's also adding flavor or something else valuable.

If it *is* an important decision, well, how many of those do you want the player to make before they get to stop customizing and play the rest of the game?
Both of these issues are addressed by limiting the players exposure to the said choices. What I mean by this is that the same way you don't start the game with every single shipmod, weapon, ship available to you, the same way this customization would be only available or relevant later on.


Side note: It would be really nice for new players if the game let people see what a hull mod does, when either looking at character perks, or when looking at other ships in the store for example. For new players it would be handy if they didn't need to buy a ship before they can find out what a hull mod does, or if they need to level a character to find out what certain hullmods do.


Point is, even well-balanced customization options have downsides if there are too many of them. Basically, imagine if Starsector had ten times the number of hullmods, without UI improvements to help manage this information/decision overload.
As mentioned above, even 10 times the ship mods would be okay, as long as players aren't exposed to all of them at the same time at the start, but rather gradually introduced to them. For more advanced players, I imagine extra choices are very pleasant because they have assimilated all the available choices and extra choices are just that, more freedom, rather than overload of decisions.

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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2016, 12:48:17 PM »

Both of these issues are addressed by limiting the players exposure to the said choices. What I mean by this is that the same way you don't start the game with every single shipmod, weapon, ship available to you, the same way this customization would be only available or relevant later on.
...
As mentioned above, even 10 times the ship mods would be okay, as long as players aren't exposed to all of them at the same time at the start, but rather gradually introduced to them.

While something being initially overwhelming is something to consider and deal with, tweaking the progression to an end state is not going to help a whole lot if that end state is bad to begin with. I mean, at some point too much stuff is just too much stuff, no matter how you get there.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 12:50:23 PM by Alex »
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #153 on: December 11, 2016, 02:44:55 PM »

I'm looking forward to getting that feeling of going on a long, lonely journey in search of new worlds and treasures. With no markets out in distant systems, you'll finally need to bring actual fuel tankers to make it there and back again safely—anything that gives a more meaningful purpose to currently poorly utilized parts of the game (like tankers) is a big win to me!

But damn, Alex, there better be some good stuff to find out there! Getting to those distant systems is looking like it could cost thousands of fuel/supplies!

You ever think of giving the cap sized tanker (Prometheus) the ability to convert various raw resources into fuel? Something like onboard micro-refineries that take volatiles/organics/rare metals and turn'em into fuel? Wouldn't be efficient but certainly nice to have in tight situations considering raw resources will probably be common loot when exploring systems. Could be a hotbar ability that only shows when you have a ship with said refineries in your fleet!
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Carabus

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #154 on: December 11, 2016, 03:19:55 PM »

While we are at the topic of too many hullmods, I think even with current amount of hullmods, user experience would benefit from putting them into categories. They can be pretty easily segregated into categories like for example these:
- Weapon mods
- Armor/Hull mods
- Shield mods
- Power/Flux mods
- Engine mods
- Sensors mods
- Logistics mods
- Other
StarSector used to try that with prefixes like [A] and [E], but imho it needs proper UI support.
Hullmod selection window could have expandable lists for each category.
On top of that, each hullmod could have small icons representing categories it belongs to.
I say categories, because it it not hard to imagine one hullmod with belong to more than one category. In such case it would have several category-icons, and would show when at least one of expandable lists it belongs to is expanded.
There could even be "positive" and "negative" icons for each category, so for example the new Unstable Injector could have green engine icon and red weapons icon. There could be yellow icons too if the change is somehow neutral.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 03:31:51 PM by Carabus »
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #155 on: December 11, 2016, 03:58:54 PM »

OH SHOOT are we gonna get the ability to filter weapons in the drop down by damage type or size?
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Imperium

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #156 on: December 11, 2016, 06:10:43 PM »

OH SHOOT are we gonna get the ability to filter weapons in the drop down by damage type or size?
Please oh please be so
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gozer

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #157 on: December 11, 2016, 11:05:13 PM »

awesome ... I'll have to check the forums more often

just a quick question ... will/can something be done about maneuverability of fleets? (both in the star system and in hyperspace) ... in battle it takes quite a bit of time to do 360 turn in Onslaught, but on the main map fleet full of Onslaughts changes course just as fast as frigate-only wolfpack fleet. Sure, the max speed/burn is different, but quite often the AI fleets are able to do really uncanny dodge maneuvers, especially when coupled with the maximum burn ability (and their total disregard for supplies/fuel needs)
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RandomnessInc

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #158 on: December 12, 2016, 12:48:25 AM »

With the new hull mod acquiring system, would you be able to find hullmods like the special fourteenth battle group one, possible under a different name but withthe exact same affects?


On a side note, any special hullmod for the tri-tachs?
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Barracuda

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #159 on: December 12, 2016, 05:11:54 AM »

Just wondering, when is the "Coalition" going to join the sector? Its just a minor question referencing one of your old blog posts on the fraction icons.
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PCCL

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #160 on: December 12, 2016, 07:47:20 AM »

I remember seeing something about them becoming the Persian league which is coming next patch
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David

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #161 on: December 12, 2016, 08:57:02 AM »

I remember seeing something about them becoming the Persian league which is coming next patch
The Persean League, yes. (If it helps, I pronounce it "Per-see-an", as in a word derived from the name Perseus.)
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PCCL

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #162 on: December 12, 2016, 09:53:03 AM »

Aha, and here I was wondering what the Persian nation from old Earth is doing in our fine sector... Thanks for the clarification
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #163 on: December 12, 2016, 10:11:32 AM »

You ever think of giving the cap sized tanker (Prometheus) the ability to convert various raw resources into fuel? Something like onboard micro-refineries that take volatiles/organics/rare metals and turn'em into fuel? Wouldn't be efficient but certainly nice to have in tight situations considering raw resources will probably be common loot when exploring systems. Could be a hotbar ability that only shows when you have a ship with said refineries in your fleet!

Not specifically; it's a potential solution for a potential problem :)


While we are at the topic of too many hullmods, I think even with current amount of hullmods, user experience would benefit from putting them into categories. ...

Yeah, been thinking along very similar lines. Actually, right now, hullmods even have "tags" under the hood, which are precisely what you're talking about with categories.

This kind of thing would definitely be nice to add. Just a question of finding time for it at some point, since it's not a high priority item.


OH SHOOT are we gonna get the ability to filter weapons in the drop down by damage type or size?
Please oh please be so

Again, a "finding time" issue. I've got a TODO item for this, but we'll see if I actually manage to get to it. A lot of "let's improve the UI" type things tend to only get done while reworking some mechanics in a related area, since then the mental cost of diving into that area is already paid, if that makes sense.


With the new hull mod acquiring system, would you be able to find hullmods like the special fourteenth battle group one, possible under a different name but withthe exact same affects?

Probably not that one; wouldn't make a lot of sense given its description.

On a side note, any special hullmod for the tri-tachs?

Not (yet?).
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ChaseBears

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #164 on: December 12, 2016, 10:45:37 AM »

Tri-Tachyon Hull Mods

Luxurious Appointments
Real-Time Stock Market Link
'Peeping Tom' Surveillance AI
Executive's Yacht
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