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News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Cartography  (Read 67001 times)

Xanderzoo

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2016, 07:14:06 PM »

This is looking great. Can't wait for the update. :)
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kazi

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2016, 07:30:18 PM »

This is really fantastic Alex, no complaints on my end!

One question about procedural generation, how is faction control of neighboring systems decided? Is it the default where all factions dominate the space around their core worlds? Or is there a stat that controls what percentage of nearby worlds are controlled by that faction?

Just to throw an idea out there, but market stability seems like a particularly great way of controlling procedural generation of who gets what. More stable markets already produce bigger fleets, why not let it also control the chance that a faction dominates nearby space as well? It also lays the groundwork for faction politics/conflict later on. Markets with marginal stability (2 or less?) would be prime takeovers for more stable (read: powerful markets). Add in some temporary market conditions like "Military Defeat", "Trade Boom", "Epidemic", etc., and you've got a fantastic way to have a dynamically changing sector that the player can influence.

Kill a bunch of a faction's ships? Nearby markets from that faction gain a temporary "Military Defeat" modifier, reducing stability and making them prime candidates for a military invasion, internal coup, or further negative debuffs. Trade a lot with a given port, and it becomes prosperous? That port gains increased stability, and a chance to quietly buy out and take over neighboring markets with a "Trade Disruption" event. The player should get a mission/event to interfere when these types of high stability/low stability takeover events arise (you only hear about these if you've tapped a commlink or gotten friendly with the factions/people involved). For instance, you could prevent a buyout with one of your own/friendly faction's (either hard cash or badly needed goods), or perhaps wipe out an invasion fleet en route to a planet. Really, the possibilities are pretty good here.

Even better, give factions certain flavors that biases what events each faction get. The Hegemony might gain better chances at/more military takeover events when piracy is rampant, esp. against independent worlds incapable of defending themselves. Meanwhile, the Luddic Path might do particularly well at internal coups on worlds sympathetic to the religion or events that cause widespread public dissatisfaction. This might give each faction a bit more of a preferred playstyle and added flavor.

Anyhow, cool stuff!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 07:38:42 PM by kazi »
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Alex

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2016, 07:37:59 PM »

One question about procedural generation, how is faction control of neighboring systems decided? Is it the default where all factions dominate the space around their core worlds? Or is there a stat that controls what percentage of nearby worlds are controlled by that faction?

Ah! The procedural systems are not, generally speaking, "controlled" by established factions. They mostly contain ruins to explore, dangers to brave, and rewards to reap. The civilized portion of the Sector has been largely reduced to the core worlds.

Right now, I'm thinking I'd like to have some outposts and such be dynamically established by outside the core by factions, but it wouldn't be a huge amount, and it almost certainly wouldn't be for this update.

And, yes, the plan is to use "stability" as a core stats for a lot of higher-level stuff like that; that was much of the point of rolling so many things into that one number. Hopefully that'll pan out!
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kazi

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2016, 07:43:34 PM »

I think it would be very worthwhile to throw in a chance for a random colonized planet/semi decent-sized market into the procedural generation. Not huge ones, but it'd be a nice surprise to find a backwater port hidden out in the outback every now and then. It makes things a bit more random/unpredictable, and also rewards players who explore with new bases of operations (albeit limited ones), trade opportunities, or perhaps danger from hostile fleets.

A faction-specific name list for different-sized outposts/colonies might also be nice, flavor-wise. But only during initial factor generation.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 07:46:15 PM by kazi »
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DrakonST

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2016, 07:47:53 PM »

It seems that updating already soon. ::)
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Alex

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 07:48:12 PM »

I did say "generally" - yeah, very much keeping that idea in mind, as it's very neat!

(A lot of the current work is "fill these systems with stuff"...)
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StarSchulz

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 08:07:33 PM »

Furiously Shoveling coal into hype train


Looks awesome, every addition makes it look and feel like a whole new game.

Deshara

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2016, 08:22:29 PM »

Right now, I'm thinking I'd like to have some outposts and such be dynamically established by outside the core by factions, but it wouldn't be a huge amount, and it almost certainly wouldn't be for this update.

Update confirmed soon

« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 09:11:05 PM by Deshara »
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Alex

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 09:56:43 PM »

(Minor note on the 'how far can you go' overlays; personally, for readability I'd screen those back to about half their current opacity and add a fat outline of maybe 2px - easier to see where the edge is, harder to miss locations of interest inside it.)

(Actually tried that first; a solid enough circular outline at the outer edge was pretty hard to make look good, and got in the way quite a bit besides.)
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 10:07:14 PM »

I'm curious about the performance, how is the game running now with all these systems? How much has the average number of fleets been increased for?

EDIT. Not to go off topic too much, but how is the skill revamp going? You mentioned that the majority of the work left is to fill the void with stuff to do but I figured revamping such a core part of the game would take a lot of testing to get it right.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 10:13:08 PM by Cyan Leader »
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Vinyl Dash

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 10:26:25 PM »

Ooooh, just looking at those maps is making me giddy. I can't wait to explore them.
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Alex

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2016, 10:32:02 PM »

I'm curious about the performance, how is the game running now with all these systems? How much has the average number of fleets been increased for?

It's running well, I'd say the various performance improvements so far outweigh any increased requirements. The number of fleets in being at any time is actually about the same right now.

You mentioned that the majority of the work left is to fill the void with stuff

I said that's been a lot of the "current work". That doesn't mean that's all that's left :)
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Nick XR

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2016, 10:41:37 PM »

Regarding the left click interaction on the map creating a drop down; that'll work only as long as the players fleet is the only fleet that is commanded.  Every 4X I can think of goes with left click to select (brings up all sorts of succinct info), right click to command.  Granted here in SS the player fleet might be the only fleet that is ever theirs to command, but I feel that sticking with convention of "how to order space ships around on a map" that has been established by countless other games shouldn't be discarded.

Alex

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2016, 11:13:21 PM »

I see what you're saying, but consider that this interaction is almost entirely about navigating the map UI, with the "lay in course" option being a leftover from the olden days. The interaction paradigm is driven by the former; the latter is simply tacked on in a convenient place.

If more giving-orders-oriented controls were needed, they could be perhaps be handled through another mode enabled using the filter (similar to how the "starscape" mode changes the view), or through various other means depending on exactly how those needed to work.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 11:15:01 PM by Alex »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Cartography
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2016, 12:13:54 AM »

Question: How are you going to stop hidden game overs of someone running out of fuel and falling into an empty system?
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