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Author Topic: The Lion's Guard 0.03e (Now Redundant)  (Read 18502 times)

King Alfonzo

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The Lion's Guard 0.03e (Now Redundant)
« on: July 04, 2016, 03:11:16 AM »

This mod simply added Lion's Guard skins to Sindrian Diktat and Lion's Guard ships. It's now been folded into Ship and Weapon Pack, HERE. However, this mod is really simple, so I'm keeping it up for first-time modders to copy-paste-despair from it. NOTE: This mod is kept as an example, and the artwork in it is not to be used by other modders.

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Dark.Revenant

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP)
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 04:27:49 AM »

FYI the effects of the hull mod can be summarized:
Code
	private static final float DISSIPATION_MULT = 0.7f;
        private static final float CAPACITY_MULT = 1.35f;
private static final float HANDLING_MULT = 1.6f;
private static final float SPEED_MOD = 1.35f;
private static final float FUEL_MOD = 2f;
private static final int BURN_LEVEL_BONUS = 1;

        BLOCKED_HULLMODS.add("augmentedengines");
        BLOCKED_HULLMODS.add("auxiliarythrusters");
        BLOCKED_HULLMODS.add("unstable_injector");

On top of that, these ships have about -12.5% OP from the normal, except for the Buffalo (unchanged) and the Vigilance (inexplicably actually higher OP than the base).


There are numerous problems here.  First, the hullmod's effects are really overblown and overpowered -- it's like getting Auxiliary Thrusters and Augmented Engines built-in by default, and on top of that getting a huge change in flux characteristics.  Plus double fuel consumption for some reason.  All you have to pay is an amount roughly equivalent to Auxiliary Thrusters to get the benefit of both that and Augmented Engines...  a crazy bargain, to be sure.  The XIV bonuses don't give you anywhere near as much value.  Plus, the hullmod blocker doesn't protect against various mod-added engine hull mods, which lets you abuse this for, say, a mega-speed SO eagle that can reach alarmingly close to the 600-speed cap.  The downsides don't really overcome the huge positives.  Increased fuel consumption is usually irrelevant unless the price is inflated for some reason - and the Sindrian Diktat is the #1 producer of fuel in the first place.  The reduced dissipation speed IS a major downside, but it's overcome by the built-in speed boosts and huge boost to capacity; you can charge, tank, and retreat in order to effectively kite enemies to death.

There are technical issues as well, like the fact that the entire Lion's Guard faction file is redefined, which can cause weird problems and actually break other mods that affect that faction (such as Ship and Weapon Pack).  This mod is otherwise compatible with Ship and Weapon Pack.  I wish people would stop saying Starsector+ is incompatible with content mods; it will work with this mod just fine.  You're correct that it won't work with DynaSector.

For some reason, none of these ships are skins; they're new hull files.  There is absolutely NO reason to add new hulls for any of these ships, aside from the legacy weapon placements on some of them.  Which brings me to the aesthetic issue:

Some of these (most egregiously, the Conquest skin) use the old crappier sprites rather than the updates/repaints.  The new Conquest is vastly superior to the old; even if the technical aspects were up to par, I would demand a redo of the Conquest before adding any of this to the aggregate mods (S&WP, DynaSector).  The apparent brightness levels aren't balanced properly between them either, but that's more of a nitpick.
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King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP)
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 06:22:56 AM »

Thanks for the feedback, Rev!

On top of that, these ships have about -12.5% OP from the normal, except for the Buffalo (unchanged) and the Vigilance (inexplicably actually higher OP than the base).

The Buffalo was deliberate (It only has solar shielding), and the OP will be tweaked down a bit. The Vigilance was an oversight.

There are numerous problems here.  First, the hullmod's effects are really overblown and overpowered -- it's like getting Auxiliary Thrusters and Augmented Engines built-in by default, and on top of that getting a huge change in flux characteristics.

Fair Cop. I'll reduce the bonuses and the OP.

All you have to pay is an amount roughly equivalent to Auxiliary Thrusters to get the benefit of both that and Augmented Engines...  a crazy bargain, to be sure.  The XIV bonuses don't give you anywhere near as much value.

But in my opinion, they don't FEEL all that different from Vanilla, other than being just slightly better at flux and slightly slower. I was trying to avoid that a bit, and try and give a more solid difference to make them stand out from the Hegemony and TriTachyon. I wanted to see if I could make a series of ships that was wildly different from the norm, instead of minor +5, -5% bonuses.

Plus, the hullmod blocker doesn't protect against various mod-added engine hull mods, which lets you abuse this for, say, a mega-speed SO eagle that can reach alarmingly close to the 600-speed cap.  The downsides don't really overcome the huge positives.

Damn, forgot about the Safety Overrides. Will be fixed. Any others I should be aware of? I know the BRDY drive one is restricted to BRDY ships, and none of the mods I usually play with have engine tweaks.

Increased fuel consumption is usually irrelevant unless the price is inflated for some reason - and the Sindrian Diktat is the #1 producer of fuel in the first place.  The reduced dissipation speed IS a major downside, but it's overcome by the built-in speed boosts and huge boost to capacity; you can charge, tank, and retreat in order to effectively kite enemies to death.

That was kind of what I was aiming for for the Sindrians - They're sitting on the Sector's main fuel producer, so they aren't bothered by it. Will probably increase this malus, on reflection. Additionally, that kiting strategy is the strength of the build. The weakness is that terrible vent - when you're venting, you're fairly vulnerable for a long time, and if you don't vent, you are going to overload - a lot. Probably should reduce armour and hull more to strengthen this weakness and balance it out.

There are technical issues as well, like the fact that the entire Lion's Guard faction file is redefined, which can cause weird problems and actually break other mods that affect that faction (such as Ship and Weapon Pack).  

To be honest I have no idea what that means - this is the first time I've ever attempted something like this (and presumably it shows). Is this due to the replacement of the FACTION files? Or the additions to the FACTION files?

This mod is otherwise compatible with Ship and Weapon Pack.  I wish people would stop saying Starsector+ is incompatible with content mods; it will work with this mod just fine.  You're correct that it won't work with DynaSector.

Will fix the description presently.

For some reason, none of these ships are skins; they're new hull files.  There is absolutely NO reason to add new hulls for any of these ships, aside from the legacy weapon placements on some of them.  

That was before I knew you could change the image files directly from the VARIANT files - something I only figured out quite recently.

Which brings me to the aesthetic issue:

Some of these (most egregiously, the Conquest skin) use the old crappier sprites rather than the updates/repaints.  The new Conquest is vastly superior to the old; even if the technical aspects were up to par, I would demand a redo of the Conquest before adding any of this to the aggregate mods (S&WP, DynaSector).  The apparent brightness levels aren't balanced properly between them either, but that's more of a nitpick.

I wanted to make the skins look more different and older than the newer updated forms the other factions, to reflect the fact that the Lion's Guard are comprised of ships that are supposed to be from an older hegemony battlegroup, rather than the newer, cleaner ships. But if you wanted the newer conquest skin to jam it in the SWP I'm all for it - I just wanted the Sindrians to have pretty ships like the Hegemony and TriTachyon, that play in a new and exciting way.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

Dark.Revenant

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP)
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 02:09:21 PM »

There are technical issues as well, like the fact that the entire Lion's Guard faction file is redefined, which can cause weird problems and actually break other mods that affect that faction (such as Ship and Weapon Pack). 

To be honest I have no idea what that means - this is the first time I've ever attempted something like this (and presumably it shows). Is this due to the replacement of the FACTION files? Or the additions to the FACTION files?

You've replaced the Lion's Guard faction file when there is no reason to do so.  You could have just added ships to their faction file like you did with the Sindian Diktat.  By replacing it, you block other mods from making any edits to the faction file (such as Portrait Pack and Ship and Weapon Pack).


I wanted to make the skins look more different and older than the newer updated forms the other factions, to reflect the fact that the Lion's Guard are comprised of ships that are supposed to be from an older hegemony battlegroup, rather than the newer, cleaner ships. But if you wanted the newer conquest skin to jam it in the SWP I'm all for it -- I just wanted the Sindrians to have pretty ships like the Hegemony and TriTachyon, that play in a new and exciting way.

My main critique with the design is that these ships are massively changed in stats from their base versions.  Even supposing that they are somehow balanced out through expertly-chosen multipliers, the fact remains that the difference is too great in the first place.  A Hammerhead (LG) is significantly more different than its base model than the Hammerhead (I) is -- and the Hammerhead (I) is a different hull with modified weapon slots!

A Dominator (XIV) versus a normal Dominator versus a Dominator (D) is conceptually simple and doesn't force you to re-learn the ship.  The Dominator (D) is the 'el crapo' edition with generally reduced stats, the Dominator is a rough and tough anvil ship, and the Dominator (XIV) takes the ship even further with better armor and flux stats.  You use all of them the same way, except with the better editions you can rely on your armor more.

The XIV bonuses conceptually match what you see the Hegemony actually doing with their ships.  It enhances the existing flavor.  The Sindrian Diktat mostly favors midline ships -- ships that tend to be relatively balanced and self-sufficient with middle-of-the-road speed and flux -- so I would expect their skins to represent that.  The Lion's Guard actually favors high-tech ships, so the justifiable "excuse" for changes would be that the (LG) designated ships are veteran, battle-tested vessels that were gradually upgraded over the years to use more advanced parts taken from high-tech ships.  If I were to do it, the bonuses would be slightly better flux dissipation and capacity (5%) plus a moderate OP bonus (about 10%), with the downside of 1.2x CR per deployment (so 15% CR per deployment becomes 18%).
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King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP)
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2016, 11:32:25 PM »

The XIV bonuses conceptually match what you see the Hegemony actually doing with their ships.  It enhances the existing flavor.  The Sindrian Diktat mostly favors midline ships -- ships that tend to be relatively balanced and self-sufficient with middle-of-the-road speed and flux -- so I would expect their skins to represent that.  The Lion's Guard actually favors high-tech ships, so the justifiable "excuse" for changes would be that the (LG) designated ships are veteran, battle-tested vessels that were gradually upgraded over the years to use more advanced parts taken from high-tech ships.  If I were to do it, the bonuses would be slightly better flux dissipation and capacity (5%) plus a moderate OP bonus (about 10%), with the downside of 1.2x CR per deployment (so 15% CR per deployment becomes 18%).

Updated the mod with these suggestions, in addition to using SKIN and VARIANT files instead of SHIP. Many thanks to Histidine for debugging, and Revanant for suggestions.

Tartiflette

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP) 0.02b
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 01:43:03 AM »

That new Conquest is really really nice!
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Sy

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP) 0.02b
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2016, 05:02:05 AM »

agreed, the updated Conquest is a great improvement.

you could add your Hammerhead freighter conversion to this fleet as well. since the Lion's Guard is (afaik) purely a defense force that doesn't do large scale freight hauling or long-range incursions into enemy territory, i think a well armored supply transport that can defend itself against light threats in an emergency would fit their demands better than the squishy Buffalo. Sindrian Diktat, on the other hand, really should have its own Buffalo skin.
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King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard (WIP) 0.02b
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 05:14:03 PM »

I was thinking of including the Hammerhead-C in a different mod I'm thinking of doing, however I don't think it'd be a stretch to stick it in this one.

King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03 (WIP Hackjob Edition)
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2016, 11:34:05 PM »

UPDATE:
Made it work kind of-sort of with Dynasector, until I can learn how to Unix.

Orikson

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03 (WIP Hackjob Edition)
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2016, 02:27:57 PM »

Report: Your 'Assault' variant for the Lion's Guard Eagle contains a weapon from Ships/Weapon Pack.

So, you can imagine what happens when a player loads the mod without Ships/Weapon Pack.
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King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03 (WIP Hackjob Edition)
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 03:03:49 PM »

Report: Your 'Assault' variant for the Lion's Guard Eagle contains a weapon from Ships/Weapon Pack.

So, you can imagine what happens when a player loads the mod without Ships/Weapon Pack.

I'll get right on it - thought I had deliberately avoided using SWP weapons, but apparently one snuck through...
Apologies for the issue.

King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03a (WIP Hackjob Edition)
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2016, 11:16:46 PM »

Issue fixed! 0.03a is now available through the link above. Apologies for this - I honestly have no idea how that snuck by me. Also checked the other variants - shouldn't be an issue.

Orikson

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03a (WIP Hackjob Edition)
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2016, 11:31:38 PM »

It happens. We all make mistakes. Thanks for the quick fix!
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King Alfonzo

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03d (0.8.1a Compatible edition)
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2017, 05:05:53 AM »

Quote from: Fractal Softworks Forum
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Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."

Good grief I haven't touched this in a while.

Especially when it's such a simple fix.

Updated to work with 0.8.1a, if anyone's interested. Don't have to do the whole Dynasector thing to get it to work. Contact me if there's bug / I've used a SWP weapon again.

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Re: The Lion's Guard 0.03d (0.8.1a Compatible edition)
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2017, 06:57:35 AM »

Great to see this mod's been updated again. And does this work with dynasector?
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