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Author Topic: Brexit Wins  (Read 12566 times)

Morbo513

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2016, 02:35:20 AM »

Personal preference to staying in or out. I'm completely on the fence, hence why I didn't vote.

This is an enormous mistake.

You simply can't be on the fence in such a far reaching decision; the result WILL(does) effect you, so you MUST(should have) vote(d).

If you are happy with the status quo, you vote IN.
If you are unhappy with the status quo (and think leaving the EU will improve things), you vote OUT.

Referendums should either be mandatory voting, or require an absolute majority.
Otherwise you get stupid *** like this happening, where the populist vote gets levied resulting in the passive majority being dragged along by a vocal minority.

The most prevalent arguments from both sides were pretty much full of rhetoric based pretty much on sensationalised speculation. I'm not happy with the status quo, nor am I sufficiently well-informed to be able to decide for myself whether my country leaving the EU was a better option. I'd say the vast majority of people who did vote are in the same proverbial boat, the difference is I acknowledged it. I personally think referendums are nonsense for this reason: The public of pretty much every country are too subject to sensationalist media - educating ones self on the subject of the referendum is not a prerequisite to voting on something with such far-reaching ramifications.
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TJJ

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2016, 03:25:10 AM »

The most prevalent arguments from both sides were pretty much full of rhetoric based pretty much on sensationalised speculation. I'm not happy with the status quo, nor am I sufficiently well-informed to be able to decide for myself whether my country leaving the EU was a better option. I'd say the vast majority of people who did vote are in the same proverbial boat, the difference is I acknowledged it. I personally think referendums are nonsense for this reason: The public of pretty much every country are too subject to sensationalist media - educating ones self on the subject of the referendum is not a prerequisite to voting on something with such far-reaching ramifications.

Completely agree; the referendum itself was a mistake.

However abstaining from voting because of this principle is compounding the problem, as you're delegating your vote to the general populace - a populace who is (on average) even less qualified to make an informed decision.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:38:37 AM by TJJ »
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TJJ

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2016, 03:52:50 AM »

Wow, the creator of the 2nd referendum petition (now @3.1M signatories) has outed himself as a leave supporter who, like Nigel Farage, apparently has double standards when it comes to democracy.

Quote from: Oliver Healey(on facebook)
Oliver Healey - English Democrats
5 hrs ยท
***CAN I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!!!***
Dear All
Re: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum petition
This petition was created at a time (over a month ago) when it was looking unlikely that 'leave' were going to win, with the intention of making it harder for 'remain' to further shackle us to the EU. Due to the result, the petition has been hijacked by the remain campaign. Admittedly, my actions were premature however, my intentions were as stated above. THERE WAS NO GUARANTEE OF A LEAVE VICTORY AT THAT TIME!!! Having said that, if it had not been mine, it would have been orchestrated by someone on the remain campaign. However, since I am associated with the petition and before the press further associate me with it I felt the need to better clarify my position on the issue even if it looks bad. I am it's creator, nothing more! The logistical probability of getting a turnout to be a minimum of 75% and of that, 60% of the vote must be one or the other (leave or remain) is in my opinion next to impossible without a compulsory element to the voting system.
I have been opposed to the bureaucratic and undemocratic nature of the European Union as an institution privately for many years and for all of my political career. I have openly and actively lent my support to both Vote Leave and Grassroots Out campaigns - why would I do this if I wanted to remain in the EU? I am genuinely appalled by the behaviour of some of the remain campaign, how they are conducting themselves post-referendum not just with this petition but generally. The referendum was fairly funded; democratically endorsed, every vote was weighted equally and I believe this was a true reflection of the mood of the country. To my fellow leavers, now doubting their decision please keep the faith, we will be fine just stick with it. I believe what we need to do now for the good of the country; is get behind the will of the British people, unite, issue Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon and move forward, with the process of leaving the European Union.
William Oliver Healey
Creator of EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum petition

Poetic justice is real.
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Morbo513

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2016, 09:38:40 AM »

The most prevalent arguments from both sides were pretty much full of rhetoric based pretty much on sensationalised speculation. I'm not happy with the status quo, nor am I sufficiently well-informed to be able to decide for myself whether my country leaving the EU was a better option. I'd say the vast majority of people who did vote are in the same proverbial boat, the difference is I acknowledged it. I personally think referendums are nonsense for this reason: The public of pretty much every country are too subject to sensationalist media - educating ones self on the subject of the referendum is not a prerequisite to voting on something with such far-reaching ramifications.

Completely agree; the referendum itself was a mistake.

However abstaining from voting because of this principle is compounding the problem, as you're delegating your vote to the general populace - a populace who is (on average) even less qualified to make an informed decision.
And I'm indifferent as to the outcome. If I were leaning either direction, it was towards leave but not by much.
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Deshara

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2016, 01:18:52 PM »

Well fun fact for people who're emotionally invested in this vote one way or another; back in the 90's, the last time this got voted on, parliament basically stated ahead of the vote that a referendum to leave will probably not actually be put into action. Government is funny that way
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Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then

Spoorthuzad

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2016, 01:46:39 PM »

Well fun fact for people who're emotionally invested in this vote one way or another; back in the 90's, the last time this got voted on, parliament basically stated ahead of the vote that a referendum to leave will probably not actually be put into action. Government is funny that way

How democratic  :-\

TJJ

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2016, 06:57:53 PM »

Well fun fact for people who're emotionally invested in this vote one way or another; back in the 90's, the last time this got voted on, parliament basically stated ahead of the vote that a referendum to leave will probably not actually be put into action. Government is funny that way

90's? The last time there was a referendum on the EU was 1975. Not that I was there; I was born in '80 :-*
That referendum, like this one, was advisory only; not forcing.

Don't forget that in a Parliamentary Democracy the Parliament is elected by the people to govern in the interests of the people.
If Parliament cannot find a way of interpreting the referendum result in a way that is in the interests of the people, they're legally bound to disregard it in favor of acting in the people's interests.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:20:36 AM by TJJ »
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The Soldier

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2016, 09:19:28 PM »

I don't live in either the EU or Britain, but take this for what it is - even though 51% of Brits voted to leave the EU.  But there's still the 49% of the people who most definitely did not.  Democracy is funny that way.
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Deshara

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2016, 02:20:17 AM »

51% of Brits voted to leave the EU.  But there's still the 49%

30% voted. Baby Boomers are one of the most motivated voter base in the world, so you generally can't assume that the people who didn't vote agree with them, since apparently the #1 thing that gets pensioners out of bed is trying to destroy the country just before they pass away so they can leave the worse world possible for their grandkids. If 15% of a population turns out to be a bunch of xenophobic ******** doesn't mean you can extrapolate their headrot to the 35% that didn't vote.
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Serenitis

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2016, 12:50:53 PM »

Brexit was a political stunt gone wrong. This entire thing is like living in a production of The Producers, and no-one has a damn clue what to do about anything. Zero plans made etc.

And the fash are already out doing their thing.
link

brb. vomiting uncontrolably.
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Cik

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2016, 02:20:08 PM »

fuggin gommies :DDDDDDDDDD
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2016, 11:38:57 PM »

Spoiler
[close]
Felt like this fit here
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Serenitis

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2016, 11:16:46 AM »

I think I've figured it out.
There's nothing to worry about. It's just a game.
Europe is having a LARP holiday, the theme is "the 1930's" and we're cosplaying Germany.
It's fine.

Spoiler
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Cik

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2016, 12:49:41 PM »

yuo are a nadzi :DDDDDDDDD

i don't know about you guys but i think brexit is hilarious and the gloom & doom totally overdone

the EU, regardless of the conveniences it provides is an undemocratic USSR-esque formation of a internationalist cabal answerable to no one with an extraordinarily nebulous mandate for a pan-european unification that not one of it's member states actually asked for. for mutual defense NATO is already a thing and all of this wolves on the border song & dance is totally ridiculous.

but you know i'm sure any minute now farage & friends are going to unfurl the swastika and declare their intention to annex france for lebensraum or something.

any minute now..

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Goumindong

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Re: Brexit Wins
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2016, 05:51:28 PM »

No it's not. You vote for MEPs. And Brussels has limited authority as agreed upon by your sovereign bodies. Hell its limited authority is its largest problem since it lacks the power to fix accounting imbalances inherent in a currency union*...which the UK isn't even a part of!

You ponces literally voted to cut your nose to spite your face. The majority of your excess labor and exports are services (finance and education and so on) and you just voted to give all that up. And then on top of that you're not going to get better deals with anyone as you were because your prime advantage to non-EU states was as a stopover into the EU!  And then, on top of that, entry into the single market will require abiding by EU regulations anyway so you literally just voted to have less representation! And then there is the fact that the rest of the Union actually wants to stay so you might have just screwed 300 years of tradition and Union so that you could be worse off.

The mandate for a European Union is literally world war 2 in that "you know this is he second time we have done this recently maybe we should take steps to ensure that our nations, being intertwined, do not do it again".

And people in the UK are probably less worried about annexing France as they are getting hit by a Molotov cocktail. . So you know actual tangible holy *** fascism right here folks, in your England.

*basically the reason why the US doesn't run into Greek style crisis is because the Federal govt subsidizes States off the books. These imbalances occur because currency fluctuation should occur to deal with productivity differences but can't when currency is unified thus no equilibrium in either capital or good current accounts.
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