Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6

Author Topic: Planetary Surveys  (Read 47007 times)

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23723
    • View Profile
Planetary Surveys
« on: June 09, 2016, 04:00:40 PM »

Blog post here.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 04:03:12 PM by Alex »
Logged

Dri

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2016, 04:35:01 PM »

Damn, this survey system is laying some serious groundwork for an expansive outpost/colonization system! I was always under the impression that Starsectors industry system was going to be fairly basic but this has changed my mind! All these various planetary resources are going to need methods of exploting them - there are going to be a lot of things to build and enhance for each outpost it seems!

But this blog post has created even more questions than it has answered! >_<

Logged

Bribe Guntails

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2016, 04:36:36 PM »

Industry has finally revealed itself!

I always thought 'Outposts' would constitute only space stations but this looks like it'll be fun, especially with the possibility of modifications to 'Market Conditions'. I can see this opening up ways for the player to be at odds with the major factions who may be after the same worlds you're surveying.

Will procedural generation (be considered to) affect the current worlds in the game too?
Logged

Achataeon

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • ~stare~
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 04:48:01 PM »

This is starting to give me that Elite: Dangerous vibes. It's awesome! So will this new feature tie in to contracts? i.e. Survey planet X for X $pacebucks, establish outpost Y for Y $pacebucks.
Logged
"On average, a human has one breast and one testicle"
- Vsauce, Michael here

Nanao-kun

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 04:55:59 PM »

Woah, nice. Looking forward to how this turns out.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23723
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 05:11:24 PM »

But this blog post has created even more questions than it has answered! >_<

Excellent, blog post working as intended :)

Will procedural generation (be considered to) affect the current worlds in the game too?

Probably to some degree? I can't say for sure right now, but for example:
- currently, hand-made uninhabited planets will get random conditions each game
- you can add procedural content to existing systems, i.e. in the current dev build Corvus has lost Mors and Somnus and instead gets a few random outer-system entities (planets, rings, asteroid belts, etc). In a plot twist, it can also randomly roll a Mors and/or a Somnus due to how name assignment works :)

On the other hand, handmade markets will likely remain fixed - i.e. Jangala is unlikely to be subject to random changes.

So will this new feature tie in to contracts? i.e. Survey planet X for X $pacebucks, establish outpost Y for Y $pacebucks.

Probably! That very item (at least, the survey one) is on the TODO list somewhere, but since "TODO" usually means "try this", I don't want to commit for sure. But, yes, very much thinking in terms of tying missions and exploration together; there are a few more TODO items to that effect.
Logged

Sunfire

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2016, 05:14:27 PM »

This looks so cool, makes me really excited about the next version!

Will mods be able to set markets as set? Same with systems planets etc.
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2016, 05:17:41 PM »

Couple of thoughts:
   Why should the survey be a one time thing? It's hardly how it work irl: the more time you spend surveying, the more stuff you are able to find. Why not have the outposts operate as a permanent survey mission? As they grow, they could be able to find things that the player missed, maybe even things that cannot be uncovered from space. Just to spice things up, imagine your secondary colony suddenly stumbling upon some major hidden treasure, then you have to defend that outpost with teeth and nails when before you could have let it fall into enemies hands without a second thought.

   And, I called dibbs on the Acheron system (and Tartarus too ><)
Logged
 

Midnight Kitsune

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2846
  • Your Friendly Forum Friend
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2016, 05:31:50 PM »

Outposts... WOOT!!!

Also, what is with you Alex and stealing famous mods' names?
Logged
Help out MesoTroniK, a modder in need

2021 is 2020 won
2022 is 2020 too

Bribe Guntails

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2016, 05:33:10 PM »

Will procedural generation (be considered to) affect the current worlds in the game too?

Probably to some degree? I can't say for sure right now, but for example:
- currently, hand-made uninhabited planets will get random conditions each game
- you can add procedural content to existing systems, i.e. in the current dev build Corvus has lost Mors and Somnus and instead gets a few random outer-system entities (planets, rings, asteroid belts, etc). In a plot twist, it can also randomly roll a Mors and/or a Somnus due to how name assignment works :)

On the other hand, handmade markets will likely remain fixed - i.e. Jangala is unlikely to be subject to random changes.

Sounds perfect! A mix of familiar and unfamiliar worlds should keep new games fresh whilst maintaining a familiarity.

Couple of thoughts:
   Why should the survey be a one time thing? It's hardly how it work irl: the more time you spend surveying, the more stuff you are able to find. Why not have the outposts operate as a permanent survey mission? As they grow, they could be able to find things that the player missed, maybe even things that cannot be uncovered from space. Just to spice things up, imagine your secondary colony suddenly stumbling upon some major hidden treasure, then you have to defend that outpost with teeth and nails when before you could have let it fall into enemies hands without a second thought.

   And, I called dibbs on the Acheron system (and Tartarus too ><)

I'm a bit in favor of this. I imagine a planetary survey takes some time, depending whether it's 'boots on the ground' or scans and analysis in orbit/atmosphere. I also imagine it's an exercise in balancing what's fun/interesting/compelling and what's tedious.

My input is that surveys may take from days to months depending on how thorough you want to be, maybe leave the teams at the celestial body while you take your fleet somewhere else?
Logged

Voyager I

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2016, 06:12:04 PM »

But this blog post has created even more questions than it has answered! >_<

Excellent, blog post working as intended :)

Will procedural generation (be considered to) affect the current worlds in the game too?

Probably to some degree? I can't say for sure right now, but for example:
- currently, hand-made uninhabited planets will get random conditions each game
- you can add procedural content to existing systems, i.e. in the current dev build Corvus has lost Mors and Somnus and instead gets a few random outer-system entities (planets, rings, asteroid belts, etc). In a plot twist, it can also randomly roll a Mors and/or a Somnus due to how name assignment works :)

On the other hand, handmade markets will likely remain fixed - i.e. Jangala is unlikely to be subject to random changes.

So will this new feature tie in to contracts? i.e. Survey planet X for X $pacebucks, establish outpost Y for Y $pacebucks.

Probably! That very item (at least, the survey one) is on the TODO list somewhere, but since "TODO" usually means "try this", I don't want to commit for sure. But, yes, very much thinking in terms of tying missions and exploration together; there are a few more TODO items to that effect.

That sounds like the best way to handle procedural generation.  The foundations of the game need to be properly handcrafted to ensure that the game flows correctly, which having what is effectively the wilderness beyond be procedurally generated lets each playthrough stay fresh and exciting.

In general, I just really like the way you approach game design.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23723
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2016, 06:17:20 PM »

Will mods be able to set markets as set? Same with systems planets etc.

Yeah, that's all subject to how a mod wants to code it.

  Why should the survey be a one time thing? It's hardly how it work irl: the more time you spend surveying, the more stuff you are able to find. Why not have the outposts operate as a permanent survey mission?

Thought about this exact thing! This seems like too much of a bother for the player to deal with. Imagine having to establish 5+ outposts and then check in on them and cease operations some months later every time you go to survey a star system. Just the mechanics of doing that seem like they'd get repetitive. Plus it takes away the immediacy of something fun - sort of a slot-machine type gambling, finding out what the conditions are.

Instead, you're establishing an outpost to answer the question of whether this planet is one you want to establish an outpost on. This seems a bit circular and confusing, and the question is, what's the benefit?

Not that going to survey 5 planets in a system is something that won't get old, but it's still a lot more concise.

Side note: also thought about surveys taking campaign-time, with a progress bar and all that. Also seems a bit unnecessary.

I think maybe this depends on how many planets you want to ultimately survey. If the game was all about surveying a single star system, then establishing outposts everywhere and then checking on their progress and steering things along, fixing problems that come up, etc, sounds like it could be a lot of fun. But if the scale is bigger than that, then I don't think that would work.

Making some assumptions about precisely what you meant, though, so perhaps I'm off in that.

As they grow, they could be able to find things that the player missed, maybe even things that cannot be uncovered from space. Just to spice things up, imagine your secondary colony suddenly stumbling upon some major hidden treasure, then you have to defend that outpost with teeth and nails when before you could have let it fall into enemies hands without a second thought.

That, however, could totally be a thing, but perhaps handled through events instead. Effectively, generating new conditions rather than uncovering something predetermined.


  And, I called dibbs on the Acheron system (and Tartarus too ><)

Ahh - sorry! Not much I can reasonably do about this; a lot of the names are common stuff from mythology, sci-fi staples, animal names, etc. Trying to avoid mod-names would be extremely limiting in terms of what the game *could* use, just not a road I want to go down.

However: there's an API method call you can make to report a system/planet name as being used. So, while "Acheron" will have a chance to show up in a normal game, you could make it so that it won't show up if your mod is enabled.

... actually, you know what - let me add that call to initStar()/addPlanet(), seems like something you'd always want to happen anyway.

Also, what is with you Alex and stealing famous mods' names?

Heck, I almost ended up with a ship named "Karkinos" by going "hmm, crab - ok, latin? "Cancer", nope. Greek? - Karkinos, that sounds ok... oh, wait, I think it's a BRDY ship. The "cool name" space, while pretty large, really isn't *that* large. So far, the use of names that are found in mods has been 100% unintentional, though, per the above, I wouldn't let that stop me if the name was a really good fit for something in vanilla.


That sounds like the best way to handle procedural generation.  The foundations of the game need to be properly handcrafted to ensure that the game flows correctly, which having what is effectively the wilderness beyond be procedurally generated lets each playthrough stay fresh and exciting.

In general, I just really like the way you approach game design.

Thank you! Will do my best for the game to live up to expectations :)
Logged

Madao

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2016, 06:43:35 PM »


Thank you for not having the surveying unlock in stages Alex, even reading about the possibility of it was driving me up the wall. The binary solution really sits well with me too.
Logged

Orikson

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Always Seen on Discord
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2016, 07:35:14 PM »

The more I read the Blog Posts, the more I like the game and taking its time to refine is fine with me.

Looks like modders are going to have to do a lot of work once this update with all the new stuff comes.

I can only imagine how many hours they'll have to sit on it. Good luck and take your time modders!

I'm probably going to go for a planet in Corvus anyway, middle of the sector makes it much easier to go around. (Captures Barad A and B through Sabouteurs anyway).

<Surveys a planet in empty systems to prevent getting stuck> <Gets a weird name planet>
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 07:38:18 PM by Mr. K »
Logged
"A story teller and a trader. Tell me your tales and I'll tell you no lies."

Come join the Starsector Fan Chat! It's decently active.

Link: https://discord.gg/eb5UC

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 11948
    • View Profile
Re: Planetary Surveys
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2016, 07:37:25 PM »

Sounds like Apogee is becoming more of a godship, or at least be a high-tier combat ship in addition to cargo hauler and other utility.  First, equal or superior combat performance than Aurora for less cost; next, high cargo capacity (for a combat ship) and high-resolution sensors; now, bonuses to surveying?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6