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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.15.1  (Read 1177338 times)

Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1155 on: July 09, 2023, 11:48:33 AM »

Just colony mods, this is the only ship/weapon mod i'm currently using. Its late game and my colonys are making tons of cash so i can afford to order new capital ships just to fight REDACTED fleets. I'm guessing its the jump in AI officers from medium threat systems to high because even my exploration cruiser fleet was handling medium fleets just fine. The biggest problem is my torpedoes are absolutely useless and won't get through--like missile and fighter weapons just aren't an option which is kinda nuts.

I remember having to swap out to a heavy kinetic build back in the day to deal with radiants just to keep pressure on them but my 50DP, 3 S-mod, lv7 officer paragon was getting bullied by that 25DP cruiser which was just blowing my mind.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1156 on: July 09, 2023, 11:53:55 AM »

Remnants are pretty brutal.  High-end Ordos are technically the most powerful thing to fight in vanilla right now.  SWP just gives them a couple ships (frankly, these are not upgrades; feel glad if you roll one of the SWP ships in their fleets) and access to the new SWP weapons.
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Toxcity

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1157 on: July 10, 2023, 01:29:15 PM »

Just colony mods, this is the only ship/weapon mod i'm currently using. Its late game and my colonys are making tons of cash so i can afford to order new capital ships just to fight REDACTED fleets. I'm guessing its the jump in AI officers from medium threat systems to high because even my exploration cruiser fleet was handling medium fleets just fine. The biggest problem is my torpedoes are absolutely useless and won't get through--like missile and fighter weapons just aren't an option which is kinda nuts.

I remember having to swap out to a heavy kinetic build back in the day to deal with radiants just to keep pressure on them but my 50DP, 3 S-mod, lv7 officer paragon was getting bullied by that 25DP cruiser which was just blowing my mind.

The 0.96a energy weapon buffs may be the culprit. The small and medium Burst PD lasers got OP reductions and an additional charge, while the Gravitron beam got a shield debuff (5%/8%/10% more damage for 1/2/3+ beams respectively).
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Phim

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1158 on: July 16, 2023, 02:32:43 PM »

Is there a way to get the Better Left Burried ship, the Excelsior Prototype Hyperfrigate? Either through normal means or some cheats?
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Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1159 on: July 16, 2023, 09:30:56 PM »

Trebs might need some rebalancing as they perform far better than every other large missile though thats more due to the anemic selection and the AI's preference for weak PD coverage haha. Currently fielding 6 venture MK II's with them and they'll alpha down half the enemy fleet with an opening volley due to the AI trying to flee into their allies and the area explosion being massive. It's definitely a trade off for high volume fire with limited endurance which honestly vanilla large missiles should already do but fail miserably at it.

Either reducing the ammo count down to MIRV levels or reducing their non EMP damage should be the sweet spot. I already had a few fights where they ran out of ammo and it fell to my other ships to pick up the slack. A huge alpha strike that would overload the enemy fleet requiring other weapons to finish them off would be a nice balance for their ability. It does feel rather cheap and the trebs overload and destroy everything before my other ships can get into range.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1160 on: July 17, 2023, 10:41:59 AM »

Trebs might need some rebalancing as they perform far better than every other large missile though thats more due to the anemic selection and the AI's preference for weak PD coverage haha. Currently fielding 6 venture MK II's with them and they'll alpha down half the enemy fleet with an opening volley due to the AI trying to flee into their allies and the area explosion being massive. It's definitely a trade off for high volume fire with limited endurance which honestly vanilla large missiles should already do but fail miserably at it.

Either reducing the ammo count down to MIRV levels or reducing their non EMP damage should be the sweet spot. I already had a few fights where they ran out of ammo and it fell to my other ships to pick up the slack. A huge alpha strike that would overload the enemy fleet requiring other weapons to finish them off would be a nice balance for their ability. It does feel rather cheap and the trebs overload and destroy everything before my other ships can get into range.

I was planning on Trebuchet changes, but this spurred me to try the following:

- Trebuchet LRM:
  * Fixed the damage to the target - the extra EMP arc wasn't doing non-EMP damage, now it does proper Energy damage like it's supposed to
  * Base damage and EMP increased to 1000/1500 from 900/900
  * Ammo halved to 15 from 30 (reminder: no regen)
  * Visual enhancement

With no hullmods or skills, this means it'll do 2000 shield damage on a hit and sustain fire for 66 seconds.  On a Gryphon, it'll sustain fire for roughly the same amount of time that the Gryphon has PPT (5 minutes, unless you have something that makes missiles fire faster).  On a Pegasus, it'll completely overwhelm the target but run out of ammo quickly.
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Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1161 on: July 17, 2023, 11:39:58 AM »

It really boggles my mind how bad the vanilla MIRV is, the pilum has its place as a cheap spam weapon but even then its missiles are far too slow for no apparent reason. Getting 10 rounds base for 25 OP is absolutely absurd when i can get 20 torpedoes for 20 OP.

Trebs might need some rebalancing as they perform far better than every other large missile though thats more due to the anemic selection and the AI's preference for weak PD coverage haha. Currently fielding 6 venture MK II's with them and they'll alpha down half the enemy fleet with an opening volley due to the AI trying to flee into their allies and the area explosion being massive. It's definitely a trade off for high volume fire with limited endurance which honestly vanilla large missiles should already do but fail miserably at it.

Either reducing the ammo count down to MIRV levels or reducing their non EMP damage should be the sweet spot. I already had a few fights where they ran out of ammo and it fell to my other ships to pick up the slack. A huge alpha strike that would overload the enemy fleet requiring other weapons to finish them off would be a nice balance for their ability. It does feel rather cheap and the trebs overload and destroy everything before my other ships can get into range.

I was planning on Trebuchet changes, but this spurred me to try the following:

- Trebuchet LRM:
  * Fixed the damage to the target - the extra EMP arc wasn't doing non-EMP damage, now it does proper Energy damage like it's supposed to
  * Base damage and EMP increased to 1000/1500 from 900/900
  * Ammo halved to 15 from 30 (reminder: no regen)
  * Visual enhancement

With no hullmods or skills, this means it'll do 2000 shield damage on a hit and sustain fire for 66 seconds.  On a Gryphon, it'll sustain fire for roughly the same amount of time that the Gryphon has PPT (5 minutes, unless you have something that makes missiles fire faster).  On a Pegasus, it'll completely overwhelm the target but run out of ammo quickly.

It's a powerful weapon but it should be at 24 OP and its salvo size of 3 makes it vulnerable to decent PD coverage. Changing its ammo to 15 would definitely balance it out giving you a nice opening weapon that's prone to running dry unless you support it with hull mods or officers. I'd honestly love to see a medium mount for a similar weapon, basically a pilum that has limited ammo. Missile options are already so anemic with a few options dominating the weird niche ones.

I also loved the concept of basically area denial nukes wiping out enemy fighter wings, it'd be a fun missile that spread into sort of a cluster bomb raining on the target for large formation saturation. The treb already does such a good job of disrupting AI formations allowing you to pick off stragglers and herd the enemy fleet away with stand off munitions haha.
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Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1162 on: July 19, 2023, 10:28:23 PM »

Some more trebuchet feedback now that i'm taking them into really large battles,

Their suppression is amazing and provide this really natural team with my direct damage ships. My venture MK II's sit back and lob missiles from a distance that disrupt enemy formations and bring down shields allowing my shooty cruisers(eagles, apogees, dominators) to get stuck in. As soon as you take one of those teams down(run out of missiles or my ventures get separated) it falls flat on its face. As this combined arms team i can punch up against bigger fleets but it's risky because the ventures are sitting ducks and the brawlers will get overwhelmed without missile support. If they did less direct damage the missiles would be perfect as an area suppression weapon that are useless for finishing off ships.

I fought a risky fringe point battle against a heavy pirate fleet that made my missiles run dry after an initial slaughter it became a desperate battle. Ships with a quality PD ratio survived really well while the aggressive ships died in droves. The missiles killing fighters is also a nice double edged sword that made me stagger carriers after my missile load has been spent due to friendly fire issues.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1163 on: July 20, 2023, 10:58:26 PM »

Some more trebuchet feedback now that i'm taking them into really large battles,

Their suppression is amazing and provide this really natural team with my direct damage ships. My venture MK II's sit back and lob missiles from a distance that disrupt enemy formations and bring down shields allowing my shooty cruisers(eagles, apogees, dominators) to get stuck in. As soon as you take one of those teams down(run out of missiles or my ventures get separated) it falls flat on its face. As this combined arms team i can punch up against bigger fleets but it's risky because the ventures are sitting ducks and the brawlers will get overwhelmed without missile support. If they did less direct damage the missiles would be perfect as an area suppression weapon that are useless for finishing off ships.

I fought a risky fringe point battle against a heavy pirate fleet that made my missiles run dry after an initial slaughter it became a desperate battle. Ships with a quality PD ratio survived really well while the aggressive ships died in droves. The missiles killing fighters is also a nice double edged sword that made me stagger carriers after my missile load has been spent due to friendly fire issues.

I feel that the updated design Trebuchets sit in a good place.  A proper sustained area-suppression missile would be a worthwhile niche, but I think it would be somewhat inappropriate for such a missile to have 5k range.  Trebuchet, on the other hand, has a bold niche that offers an interesting gameplay dynamic: long range, low sustain, anti-everything.  I'm wary of any weapon that just invalidates a whole facet of the game, e.g. carriers.
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Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1164 on: July 21, 2023, 01:47:20 AM »

If the missiles had limited ammo you'd really only suppress fighters for a limited time until you ran outta missiles. Vanilla missiles are in such a weird spot that its hard to find a good comparison, pilum spam is pretty funny but they have no business being that slow. Closest thing i can think of is the squall for large magazine suppression but there definitely should be a middle ground. There's definitely missile boats that are really under utilized because they lack a ranged answer.

I'd love for some expanse style torpedoes with really long range, good speed, and a variety of warheads at the cost of volley size. It'd be cool to be forced to choose between warheads for the trebuchet so you could tailor your fleet.
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Smilein

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1165 on: July 25, 2023, 01:42:34 AM »

anyone have any advice on how to build the cathedral? should i be piloting it or is it better off in an officer's hands? when i pilot it i notice the hangar modules dont send out their bombers often and the main gun module keeps opening its damper field even while shielded. currently im focusing on LRM missiles on the core with unstable and just focusing on mining and launching missiles, but im unsure how to build the other modules.
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Bonisagus

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1166 on: July 25, 2023, 05:26:56 PM »

Hey I've run into the Buried Treasure quest, which looks like a really cool idea (awesome to go on a pirate-themed treasure hunt, complete with betrayals and dubious rules of engagement), however it is clearly half-finished and right now it is blocking a bar with an encounter with Jakk Tannen where the dialogue option is TBD and I have to exit it. Any way to switch off or leave the quest?
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Killsode

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1167 on: July 30, 2023, 05:30:19 AM »

I've been using SWP and doing IBB bounties a lot, but i realized some of those ships could really do with a bit of a buff. For instance, the Special lashers are actually kind of disapointing. Despite being unique, they're kinda just worse than normal lashers in use. each of them have 3 less mounts, and slightly less OP. they're almost like souped up hecates, hehehe.
Would love to see them get a bit of a touch up, as unless i want to actively go out of my way to use them they're just kinda worse than a lasher with two light-ac's and a light-ag.
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Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1168 on: August 03, 2023, 01:20:30 AM »

The hub ship is so silly and awesome haha, having a ton of trouble making it work but it might be an hilarious flag ship.

So how does that bounty mission work, the buried one? Is it some silliness where i need to bring less ships or can i just deploy less ships? I've been ignoring them but i decided to try it since i was in the area and it was a stupid little ship constantly healing haha reloaded and never looked back.
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Killian

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Re: [0.96a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.14.0
« Reply #1169 on: August 03, 2023, 09:09:07 AM »

Does this mod tweak REDACTED fleets at all beyond adding some ships? I think i fought them last like before .95 but *** hell the amount of PD they're fielding was absolutely insane. I had 2 14th legions with S-mods, a paragon with S-mods, 2 14th dominators, with support cruisers and they got utterly obliterated by a medium fleet. Missiles and fighters weren't getting within 500 range and i watched a destroyer take my paragons full firepower and stay flux neutral. I had 10 officers, 3 of them level 7 the rest level 6 with everyone having at least 1 elite skill.

I'm going to drop all carriers and missiles and try to build a pure gun fleet that has nothing but kinetic weapons then just save scum to see what works because i've never seen such brutality haha. I even tried to take on a station with that fleet and it was firing non stop while pooping out insane swarms of fighter craft haha. I remember high threat systems being attrition warfare but i don't remember losing an entire capital fleet so convincingly before.

Just colony mods, this is the only ship/weapon mod i'm currently using. Its late game and my colonys are making tons of cash so i can afford to order new capital ships just to fight REDACTED fleets. I'm guessing its the jump in AI officers from medium threat systems to high because even my exploration cruiser fleet was handling medium fleets just fine. The biggest problem is my torpedoes are absolutely useless and won't get through--like missile and fighter weapons just aren't an option which is kinda nuts.

I remember having to swap out to a heavy kinetic build back in the day to deal with radiants just to keep pressure on them but my 50DP, 3 S-mod, lv7 officer paragon was getting bullied by that 25DP cruiser which was just blowing my mind.

The 0.96a energy weapon buffs may be the culprit. The small and medium Burst PD lasers got OP reductions and an additional charge, while the Gravitron beam got a shield debuff (5%/8%/10% more damage for 1/2/3+ beams respectively).

It doesn't help that - from what I've observed - REDACTED ship loadouts can be completely random as well. So far as I can tell the game normally uses a bunch of presets most of the time, since you're dealing with standardized navies, but that's not so with certain groups. Their weapons, and I presume hullmods, can be totally random at times. There might be some general guidelines like "fit at least X% or X points of PD", but I haven't delved too deep into the code and loadout systems to say for sure.

Anyway point is I've seen a Radiant fitted with 5 Paladin PD arrays - as you can imagine, fighters and missiles couldn't get anywhere near the thing, but it had far less firepower than your average Radiant and so crumpled like so much tinfoil when its support was taken out. Conversely I've also seen one that had several (possibly a full rack of 5!) Tachyon Lances and was utterly monstrous, because the sheer amount of EMP it could put out would simply "turn off" or instantly flux-overload literally any ship it so much as glanced at; fighting it was basically a case of using one ship to bait and tank the damage whilst everyone else wailed on it before the thing's support took out the tank. God forbid the monster decide to stop focusing on disabled targets because it would just run through and turn everyone off, at that point it's reload your last save time.

Sometimes you may just run into a group that hard-counters your fleet setup, and you either have to avoid it until it despawns (if it despawns) or retool to take it out. I've lost some good ships that way even in pre-0.96.
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