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Author Topic: [0.97a] Underworld 1.8.3  (Read 653198 times)

Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #300 on: April 26, 2021, 03:39:05 PM »

Quote
I agree the enormous shield presentation makes it vulnerable to fluxing out. Maybe get really creative and add a module that has a makeshift shield and that's all it is. Set the module pointed foreword so it only protects the nose. Then make the real shield into 60° OMNI. Would make the defenses unique and feel cobbled together like the rest of the ship.
The ship can barely be classified as low tech given it's a fusion of a fuel barge with a salvage gantry and as many weapons that could be bolted onto it as possible. Shield tanking was never really an option, especially when the vehicle can reach the 2.000 armor value just by using heavy armor and a base flux dissipation most capitals would dream of.
It's a trading frontsider that can slightly broadside to let one of the two large and two of the medium ballistics fire into the same target, and we can't even use the same excuse the Stalker could have that it's a former high tech ship and that it therefore could retain almost all the shield goodies of it's source material.

That module you suggest feels an awful lot like installing a module on the ship like the Cathedral Hubship or the Locomotive from HMI. I'm not sure the Infernus even can have something else stapled onto it at this point to be perfectly honest. The closest thing to that I can think of would be to give the Infernus the Damper Field ship system instead of the Burn Drive. That would just make it disgustingly durable at the cost of making it one of the slowest ships in the entire modiverse at a snail 20ish too speed while engaging the enemy.

Took a while to understand what that review post was talking about since it mostly used the weird custom names instead of the class of the ship.

On the Stalker, it doesn't make much sense for the pirate-based Apogee conversion to be significantly stronger than the Apogee itself.  As such, I'm opposed to the tweaks on that basis alone.  However, it's also worth nothing that none of the stalker changes proposed are actually worth the 25 DP compared to Vanilla ships, some are no stronger or even weaker than the original (proposition B comes to mind), pretty much all of them take the design further away from the Apogee baseline, and the proposal of sacrificing the surveying equipment built-in hullmod is just lame.

(Also, I've never had any issues mounting a large missile on a Stalker)

I apologize about the nomenclature. Truth is that talking about balancing numbers and concepts really, really bores me no matter the subject so I had to improvise to keep myself from just saving what I had written so far, put it in a word file and forever forget about it afterwards. 

Do not worry, I'm on my phone now and selecting silly names, scrolling up, pressing that tiny little B I could very well fatfinger for another effect and then come back down to keep writing is way too much finger waggling for me to pursue.

The Stalker is already a lot stronger than the Apogee, much more than a mere 2 more Deployment Points would imply it is.

It retains the one large missile mount to the side, most of the flux and shield stats, can now install medium kinetic weapons that can also reasonably point forward on the side medium turrets and trades the already very good set of energy weapons and single missile hardpoint at the front for 4 small and 1 medium incredibly good angle turrets.
And it does not end there, all the new weapon mounts even benefit from the new system which massively boosts firepower and weapon flux Efficiency and, in addition to that, the ship even recurves free point defence and medium to short range frag damage in the form of the Revolver wing.

Buffing it to a level where it can actually USE all the weapons it comes with at the cost of an already well deserved DP increase would probably make you enjoy the ship that much more.

I would also argue with the fact a mostly kinetic weapon cruiser with near-high tech shield stats, Improved Ammo Feeder AND enough leftover ordinance points to field max vents and almost max capacitors is not worth 25DP, because it most certainly would be since, unlike most cruisers in that DP range, the Stalker would be able to deploy top-shelf weapons and reasonably have enough flux stats to fire them all basically indefinitely with the help of the skill.

I'm surprised you seem perturbed about the removal of Surveying Equipment from the ship. And here I was comforting the poor old High Resolution Sensors that were axed when the Apogee went into the pirate dockyard. I hypothesized a removal of it because there are almost no vanilla ships that carry two built in hullmods, and pretty much all of those are civilian, exploration vessels, not nearly 100% combat focused vessels like the Stalker.

Pirates have already removed High Resolution Sensors which were most likely installed on the front of the ship to fit a plethora of ballistic weapons plus a fighter bay, wouldn't converting surveying equipment into a makeshift Integrated Targeting Unit (just to mention the Stalker B(allistic) you feel is weaker) make a whole lot of sense?

And finally, about that large missile slot. The Stalker massively boosts ballistic weapon performance (even more so if the ship has an officer with system expertise, I'll tell you that much) across the board. Let us keep count of the used ordinance points up to 130 without the Special Modifications, shall we?

You're going to want either heavy maulers or Hypervelocity Drivers in the back mounts since they sit in the back and need to be the offensive weapons with the most range. I will go with two Drivers.
26 Ordinance Points
I now also would really like a good ranged option for that front mount. Heavy Mauler would be ok but I will start saving OP early and go for the trusty old Heavy Mortar.
33 Ordinance Points
We still don't have any point defence and just two Hypervelocity Drivers and one Heavy Mortar sound really pathetic for a 20FP cruiser, so we're going with the rather expensive option of 4 Railguns plus Dedicated Point Defence AI plus Advanced Turret gyros for both the Railguns to become the best ballistic point defence in the game and all the weapons in the ship to stay locked into even the fastest of targets.
33+28+12+6= 79 Ordinance Points
Now we need the obligatory Integrated Targeting Unit for that juicy 40% range plus Stabilized shields for those shield flux stonks.
79+15+9=103
Oh, would you look at that. We only got 27 Ordinance Points left after fully kitting out the cruiser to make full use of Accelerated Ammo Feeder. I guess I'll just have to dump them all into vents and call it a day.

So, what would you cut for a large missile weapon that won't even be able to come with Expanded Missile Racks or ECCM, without butchering the only weapons benefitting from the ship ability?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 03:53:02 PM by Arcagnello »
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Retry

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #301 on: April 26, 2021, 07:10:12 PM »

Quote
The Stalker is already a lot stronger than the Apogee, much more than a mere 2 more Deployment Points would imply it is.
It really isn't.

While Stalkers are good, you're underselling the strengths of the Apogee (and neglecting the Stalker's sacrifices).  The conversion from an Apogee to a Stalker results in considerable compromises: The Apogee has 20% more capacity, .3 more efficient shield, 70% more effective shield HP, 250 more flux dissipation, 10 more OP, and a Plasma Cannon Large Energy Hardpoint.  The latter part seems to be undervalued in your analysis of the Apogee, as it practically defines an Apogee's role.

Both Apogees and Stalkers are easy recoveries in my fleet, and they both easily pull their weight.  If your Apogees aren't, well, then use more plasma cannon I'm kind of curious as to how you're building them.
Quote
I would also argue with the fact a mostly kinetic weapon cruiser with near-high tech shield stats, Improved Ammo Feeder AND enough leftover ordinance points to field max vents and almost max capacitors is not worth 25DP, because it most certainly would be since, unlike most cruisers in that DP range, the Stalker would be able to deploy top-shelf weapons and reasonably have enough flux stats to fire them all basically indefinitely with the help of the skill.
The Stalker would be directly competing with the Champion and Dominator at 25 DP, and indirectly competing with the slightly cheaper Eagle.  Fighting a Dominator would be rough due to its heavy weapon advantage and equivalent missile capability, Eagles have equivalent firepower & range with all the capability to dictate engagement range, and Champion's a particularly one-sided matchup with the Champion matching or exceeding Stalkers in practically every attribute.

And if you do buff Stalkers even more such that they do become competitive with the 25 DP options, they become Pirate-In-Name-Only.
Quote
You're going to want either heavy maulers or Hypervelocity Drivers in the back mounts since they sit in the back and need to be the offensive weapons with the most range. I will go with two Drivers.
26 Ordinance Points
Only necessary for long-ranged Stalker builds.  Otherwise the slots are better suited to Flak Cannons; while the Revolvers are ok at incidental PD their Mining lasers and mini-Thumpers are insufficient against serious missile threats.

We'll assume a long-range build and take 2 HVDs.
Quote
I now also would really like a good ranged option for that front mount. Heavy Mauler would be ok but I will start saving OP early and go for the trusty old Heavy Mortar.
33 Ordinance Points
Absolutely not.  You decided this ship was going to be a long-range build when you installed the HVDs, and you need to range-match it.  Heavy Mauler it is.
Quote
We still don't have any point defence and just two Hypervelocity Drivers and one Heavy Mortar sound really pathetic for a 20FP cruiser, so we're going with the rather expensive option of 4 Railguns plus Dedicated Point Defence AI plus Advanced Turret gyros for both the Railguns to become the best ballistic point defence in the game and all the weapons in the ship to stay locked into even the fastest of targets.
33+28+12+6= 79 Ordinance Points
Ah, that's your problem.

All right, you just spend more OP on your PD guns than your actual offensive capacity.  While not wrong per sey, you must understand that sacrifices will have to be made when you start spending more than 1/3rd of your total OP budget (and no less than 2 hullmods) specifically on your PD array.
Quote
Now we need the obligatory Integrated Targeting Unit for that juicy 40% range plus Stabilized shields for those shield flux stonks.
Yes to ITU, no to Stabilized Shields.  Unnecessary expenditure for a ship that has neither demanding shields nor a heavy dependency on them.
Quote
So, what would you cut for a large missile weapon that won't even be able to come with Expanded Missile Racks or ECCM, without butchering the only weapons benefitting from the ship ability?
By redesigning it to fit a specific role and trimming the fat, I end up with this.

Even had enough OP left over that I could fit cheap guns in the suboptimal small slots.  Enough caps left over that one can redirect get a Hurricane MIRV if one wants, either with a Story Point to add EMR or a Missile Spec Officer (or both)

Or if you want a midrange build, Heavy Mortar + 4x Railguns + 2x Flak Cannons, can also snugly fit a Locust or Hurricane (Squalls are still bad, unfortunately).
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #302 on: April 27, 2021, 12:21:35 AM »

Hey, I really appreciate the support and feedback!  That said, I disagree with some of your points.

First, the Infernus' shield IS important, though admittedly the 180 degree arc isn't so great.  I'll drop the arc to 90 degrees and reduce the upkeep, but bump the armor.

Second, the Infernus is intended to have unusually good flux stats and unusually bad ordnance points.  You have to be very choosy with where you budget your precious ordnance points!  Frankly, I like it this way because it lends to a wide variety of interesting builds.  It's a ship that lends to S-Mods very well, as well.  In fact, there's a whole custom start for a build-your-own-Infernus that can address most of the issues with the standard ship!

Third, the Stalker has a bunch of weird *** going on for lore reasons. Many of the Underworld ships are sub-par in various ways, on purpose. The Stalker is almost too good for what it is, but the asymmetric janky kind of good-but-not-perfect balance of it appeals to me.

Fourth, don't sleep on the large missile slot.  Even a harpoon pod can strike a finishing blow.  It's your only missile slot, so make it count.
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Kurtdovah

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #303 on: April 27, 2021, 01:17:32 AM »

I hope this mod will be update for the actual version of starsector :3
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #304 on: April 27, 2021, 03:31:02 AM »

Quote
Spoiler
The Stalker is already a lot stronger than the Apogee, much more than a mere 2 more Deployment Points would imply it is.
[close]
It really isn't.

While Stalkers are good, you're underselling the strengths of the Apogee (and neglecting the Stalker's sacrifices).  The conversion from an Apogee to a Stalker results in considerable compromises: The Apogee has 20% more capacity, .3 more efficient shield, 70% more effective shield HP, 250 more flux dissipation, 10 more OP, and a Plasma Cannon Large Energy Hardpoint.  The latter part seems to be undervalued in your analysis of the Apogee, as it practically defines an Apogee's role.

Both Apogees and Stalkers are easy recoveries in my fleet, and they both easily pull their weight.  If your Apogees aren't, well, then use more plasma cannon I'm kind of curious as to how you're building them.

I've been running Overridden Apogees using a plasma cannon myself for a good portion of my second 0.95 playthrough, I reckon they'd still be good even without Integrated Safety Overrides.

In the current patch tough, I'm quite confident an Apogee, overridden or not, with integrated hullmods or without them, with or without an Officer will still lose to a Stalker given an equal amount of resources. The apogee has an amazing shield (I forgot the shield ratio chance between the two ships, that's on me), better base flux dissipation, a large energy mount and even 10 more OP (I forgot about that one aswell, you'd think the Stalker at least had an equal amount of OP given the fact it supposedly got stripped of many exploration components for more DAKKA) but that is not enough for it to compete.

The Plasma Cannon is a good large energy weapon, but the Apogee more or less is forced to install Safety Overrides to properly fire it continuously AND stay in range with the enemies it's supposed to be engaging. A Plasma Apogee with no SO and ITU will still have subpar range, a really hard time hitting anything smaller than a cruiser (unless it has aux thrusters) and won't even be able to fire it continuously. 

I have not run a "sane" Apogee since my second campaign playthrough before I found plasma cannons (my memory may be a bit warped I'll put a (?) if I'm not sure on some stuff) but I remember bits and pieces of the following setup:

Integrated Hullmods: Hardened Shield, Expanded Missile Racks

Addittional Hullmods: Expanded magazines, Stabilized Shields, ITU, Solar Shielding (?)

Weapons: Autopulse Laser, 2x IR Pulse Laser in the front hardpoints, 2 Heavy Burst lasers (or did I degrade them to just burst PD lasers? I honesly can't remember), PD lasers on the other small energy mounts, Hurricane MIRV on the large hardpoint, Harpoons on the small missile hardpoint (?)

Rest of the OP goes into vents. You can definetly cut Solar Shielding, the Harpoons and maybe even degrade those medium energy mounts in the back further to normal small PD laser to also instally ECCM.


Quote
Spoiler
I would also argue with the fact a mostly kinetic weapon cruiser with near-high tech shield stats, Improved Ammo Feeder AND enough leftover ordinance points to field max vents and almost max capacitors is not worth 25DP, because it most certainly would be since, unlike most cruisers in that DP range, the Stalker would be able to deploy top-shelf weapons and reasonably have enough flux stats to fire them all basically indefinitely with the help of the skill.
[close]
The Stalker would be directly competing with the Champion and Dominator at 25 DP, and indirectly competing with the slightly cheaper Eagle.  Fighting a Dominator would be rough due to its heavy weapon advantage and equivalent missile capability, Eagles have equivalent firepower & range with all the capability to dictate engagement range, and Champion's a particularly one-sided matchup with the Champion matching or exceeding Stalkers in practically every attribute.

I'd be perfectly fine with a Stalker having 40-50 more OP competing with either Champion Or Dominator in DP value.
The really good turret angles and ship skill put it in a very nice role of a frigade buzzsaw that both Champion and Crabbinator can't do themselves due to the former having garbage for mount options (The one I like the most being PDAI Champion with tactical lasers, HVDs and HIL using ITU, stab shields, turret gyros and flux distributor (?) ) and the latter being a steel, crab shaped brick with the majority of its weapons on front mounted hardpoints.

Quote
Spoiler
You're going to want either heavy maulers or Hypervelocity Drivers in the back mounts since they sit in the back and need to be the offensive weapons with the most range. I will go with two Drivers.
[close]
26 Ordinance Points
Only necessary for long-ranged Stalker builds.  Otherwise the slots are better suited to Flak Cannons; while the Revolvers are ok at incidental PD their Mining lasers and mini-Thumpers are insufficient against serious missile threats.

HVDs (and, to a lesser degree, Heavy Autocannons and Heavy Maulers) are more or less vital on those two back slots since Medium ballistic mounts generally have much better Ordinance Points efficiency than small ballistic mounts and/or better range. Relegating such mounts for point defence that does not even have a decent frontal angle is seriously underselling their value and the ship skill.

Quote
Spoiler
We still don't have any point defence and just two Hypervelocity Drivers and one Heavy Mortar sound really pathetic for a 20FP cruiser, so we're going with the rather expensive option of 4 Railguns plus Dedicated Point Defence AI plus Advanced Turret gyros for both the Railguns to become the best ballistic point defence in the game and all the weapons in the ship to stay locked into even the fastest of targets.
33+28+12+6= 79 Ordinance Points
[close]
Ah, that's your problem.

All right, you just spend more OP on your PD guns than your actual offensive capacity.  While not wrong per sey, you must understand that sacrifices will have to be made when you start spending more than 1/3rd of your total OP budget (and no less than 2 hullmods) specifically on your PD array.

Railguns are not point defence. They're a cream-of-the-crop ballistic weapon with 0.8 efficiency, amazing DPS, decent range, good turret traverse and perfect accuracy which I've just so happened to turn them into the best small ballistic point defence in the game with PDAI and Turret gyros.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr0BljPKksM
Railgun installed on the Stalker with PDAI and Advance Turret Gyros, colorized.
[close]
Those 4 railguns have more than double the Kinetic DPS of those two hypervelocity drivers and are the reason why the Stalker is among the best anti-frigade/destroyer cruisers in both vanilla and the modiverse, especially when the Accellerated Ammo Feeder kicks in. It's going to not only win flux wars against actual enemy ships, but it's also going to be an incredibly potent fighter clearer now that all small weapons even get perfect tracking AND to more damage to fighters.

Your variant that's sunk 32OP into a large saturation weapon with limited ammo and 4 vulcans that deal frag damage which aren't gonna do squat to fighters with shileds/armor (and sabots for that matter, does your point defence have over 1000 range too?) wishes it was that good. It's totally worth the extra 14 Ordinance Points and leaving a large slot empty.

Quote
Spoiler
Now we need the obligatory Integrated Targeting Unit for that juicy 40% range plus Stabilized shields for those shield flux stonks.
[close]
Yes to ITU, no to Stabilized Shields.  Unnecessary expenditure for a ship that has neither demanding shields nor a heavy dependency on them.
Quote
Spoiler
So, what would you cut for a large missile weapon that won't even be able to come with Expanded Missile Racks or ECCM, without butchering the only weapons benefitting from the ship ability?
[close]
By redesigning it to fit a specific role and trimming the fat, I end up with this.
*a picture with a Locust, 2x HVD, Heavy mauler, 4x Vulcan 2x Light Machinegun is shown*
Even had enough OP left over that I could fit cheap guns in the suboptimal small slots.  Enough caps left over that one can redirect get a Hurricane MIRV if one wants, either with a Story Point to add EMR or a Missile Spec Officer (or both)

Or if you want a midrange build, Heavy Mortar + 4x Railguns + 2x Flak Cannons, can also snugly fit a Locust or Hurricane (Squalls are still bad, unfortunately).

Stabilzed shields are still good here. They cost 9 ordinance points to install but cut the shield upkeep by 90, effectively translating in making you able to install 39 max vents instead of 30 (or 49 vents instead of 40 if you have special modifications). It comes in really handy to install better weapons and also if you've got an officer with Shield Modulation, as the extra flux margin will translate into more constant hard flux dissipation while the shields are up. 

Stabilized shields is a must have on litterally every single ship in the game where it has the same or a better OP to Flux Dissipation Efficiency than actual vents. I'd be willing to accept a flintlock pistol duel over this.

If you have enough OP to, and I quote, "fit cheap guns in the suboptimal small slots", then you definetly want to avoid doing that and trying to squeeze in something more useful into the ship. Solar Shielding comes to mind since it not also applies to shield and not only the (arguably really good)armor and hull of the Stalker. Unless you actually plan on putting that large missile hardpoint to use with something actually impactful.

In that case: Hurricane MIRV. It's not an option. It's the only option on a side mounted hardpoint for ANY ship. I've already thrown the glove and opened the set of dueling pistols for this one. It's non-negotiable. Hurricane MIRV or it stays empty.

I really appreciate having a friendly discussion over ship setups by the way (says the guy proposing a flinklock pistol duel over the use of the Hurricane MIRV  ;)), sharing eachother viewpoint and possibly learning something new every time really is stimulating (altough very time consuming to write)!

Hey, I really appreciate the support and feedback!  That said, I disagree with some of your points.

First, the Infernus' shield IS important, though admittedly the 180 degree arc isn't so great.  I'll drop the arc to 90 degrees and reduce the upkeep, but bump the armor.

Second, the Infernus is intended to have unusually good flux stats and unusually bad ordnance points.  You have to be very choosy with where you budget your precious ordnance points!  Frankly, I like it this way because it lends to a wide variety of interesting builds.  It's a ship that lends to S-Mods very well, as well.  In fact, there's a whole custom start for a build-your-own-Infernus that can address most of the issues with the standard ship!

Third, the Stalker has a bunch of weird *** going on for lore reasons. Many of the Underworld ships are sub-par in various ways, on purpose. The Stalker is almost too good for what it is, but the asymmetric janky kind of good-but-not-perfect balance of it appeals to me.

Fourth, don't sleep on the large missile slot.  Even a harpoon pod can strike a finishing blow.  It's your only missile slot, so make it count.
First
I mean, 180° front shields are great in general while a vacuum, but a 90° omni (or a 90° front one, which I feel would further disincentivize the use of side mounted offensive weapons even further) would allow for an entire Onslaught to fit beside it while in a battle line!
Second
I guess that's it for my argument. If being OP starved like Dark Souls 3 Dragon forms look like malnourished deers is the design choice of the Infernus then that's how it ought to be! I sadly am not playing with Nex (which tends to needlessly BLOAT my campaigns in endgame, I might just nerf colonization by a factor of 4 or something in the future) so I can't really fully appreciate that starting option, as much as it pains me to say it.
Third
Quote
The Stalker is almost too good for what it is
It's over Retryakin, I have the high ground! I do guess that settles it then! Altough I really could see it being worth 25FP with some tweaks. I personally think it's too similar in role to the Barbarian right now, but then again the Barbarian is basically married to Safety Overrides that it might aswell settle in and have kids and already come with it integrated into the ship to start with, at the cost of a few maximum ordinance points.
Fourth
I never heard of this "Large Missile Hardpoint" you speak of, only of an empty stump that magically fits a Hurricane MIRV whenever I got one in the inventory  ;)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 03:36:01 AM by Arcagnello »
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Retry

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #305 on: April 27, 2021, 07:07:21 AM »

Quote
The Plasma Cannon is a good large energy weapon, but the Apogee more or less is forced to install Safety Overrides to properly fire it continuously AND stay in range with the enemies it's supposed to be engaging.
That's categorically false.  Plasma Cannon Apogee can effortlessly support Plasma Cannons without skills or officers while being fired continuously.  I'm not going to bother going through the flux calculations here, as nobody else seems to be having issues to make self-sustaining Plasma Apogee variants without SO (the most popular by far).

The Apogee's primary role is a line-holder, not a pursuit ship.  While not chasing down anything that's super speedy, its ungodly shield tankiness combined with excellent general-purpose main armament (+ large missile) is plenty for engaging and knocking out slower and less-tanky ships of similar weight class and range... such as Stalkers.  That's how I usually bag mine for my own use.

And that range you're calling sub-par matches your Stalker build's practical engagement range (980, for 700-range Heavy Mortar and Railguns with ITU)
Quote
The really good turret angles and ship skill put it in a very nice role of a frigade buzzsaw that both Champion and Crabbinator can't do themselves due to the former having garbage for mount options
Frigate hunters need to be fast enough to actually be able to jump their prey, which the Stalker can't do.  The ability to chew through a frigate that happens to suicidally charge and stay in its frontal arc is okay, but not unique to the Stalker.  (TL Champion tends slice through most frigates in 1 shot with HEF enabled)

If you genuinely believe the Champion has garbage mount options, then we have nothing more to discuss.  I'd suggest you spend more time looking up Champion builds...
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Gniwu

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #306 on: April 27, 2021, 08:17:32 AM »

It's a ship that lends to S-Mods very well, as well.  In fact, there's a whole custom start for a build-your-own-Infernus that can address most of the issues with the standard ship!

Speaking of which, I've been eyeing that specific start for my next pirate playthrough, where I can apply the lessons I learned from my current, little-fish pirate foray into 0.95, but I have some questions before committing. Having only seen the first upgrade choices so far, I assume that it will not be possible to eventually get every upgrade from every path? Is there a chart somewhere where I can see what's waiting in store for me, so that I don't miss out on a ship feature that I might wanted to have for my playstyle? It looks really interesting as a flagship concept, but going in completely blind for what is going to be a fairly long-term time investment is obviously not ideal.

Also, considering the main character's backstory in that start, is there any modified story content concerning your interactions with Jorien Kanta? I imagine that she would recognize your bespoke ship, even after such a long time.

Absolutely great work on the entire mod, by the way. I love both the rickety pirate variants and the Cabal as a late-game pirate threat, and I can't imagine playing without my purple Tempest anymore! Thank you! :)
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #307 on: April 27, 2021, 05:08:27 PM »

I hope this mod will be update for the actual version of starsector :3
... It is already.

connortron7

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #308 on: April 27, 2021, 05:24:43 PM »

I hope this mod will be update for the actual version of starsector :3
... It is already.
That person copy pasted that in like 12 different threads, doubt they read anything  :-\

Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #309 on: April 28, 2021, 12:09:20 AM »

Speaking of which, I've been eyeing that specific start for my next pirate playthrough, where I can apply the lessons I learned from my current, little-fish pirate foray into 0.95, but I have some questions before committing. Having only seen the first upgrade choices so far, I assume that it will not be possible to eventually get every upgrade from every path? Is there a chart somewhere where I can see what's waiting in store for me, so that I don't miss out on a ship feature that I might wanted to have for my playstyle? It looks really interesting as a flagship concept, but going in completely blind for what is going to be a fairly long-term time investment is obviously not ideal.

Also, considering the main character's backstory in that start, is there any modified story content concerning your interactions with Jorien Kanta? I imagine that she would recognize your bespoke ship, even after such a long time.

Absolutely great work on the entire mod, by the way. I love both the rickety pirate variants and the Cabal as a late-game pirate threat, and I can't imagine playing without my purple Tempest anymore! Thank you! :)

No choice is permanent.  You can (relatively cheaply) swap out the mutually exclusive upgrades to try out different builds.

TIM's start is meant for Nex, where it's kind of a freeform sandbox where the story content takes second stage to the 4X stuff going on.  I suppose for that reason, modifying the ATG mission for adjusted Kanta interactions could be done in the future, but generally speaking I don't like modifying vanilla stuff in a mod that's supposed to be an add-on.

Besides, what's she gonna do? Kill you? The player character is immortal.
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Gniwu

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #310 on: April 28, 2021, 02:20:02 AM »

No choice is permanent.  You can (relatively cheaply) swap out the mutually exclusive upgrades to try out different builds.

TIM's start is meant for Nex, where it's kind of a freeform sandbox where the story content takes second stage to the 4X stuff going on.  I suppose for that reason, modifying the ATG mission for adjusted Kanta interactions could be done in the future, but generally speaking I don't like modifying vanilla stuff in a mod that's supposed to be an add-on.

Besides, what's she gonna do? Kill you? The player character is immortal.

That is good to know, thank you! In that case, I could even use the console to get enough money for exploratory Infernus surgery in a throwaway save.

When it comes to Kanta, I just thought there might have been some kind of altered reaction over the comms, that's all.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #311 on: April 29, 2021, 12:11:09 PM »

Just popping back to let you know the Venom-X may just be what allows me to be endgame ready with just low tech ships. I managed to get them to work without resorting to SO (I did put 3 integrated hullmods on them tough) and they tear things apart nice and good!

I'm currently playing so I can't make a screenshot and post it for now, but I can indeed give out the setup!

Officer: Yes, aggressive/reckless, with wolfpack tactics
Officer Skills: Elite Helmsmanship, Target Analysis, Shield Modulation, Elite Systems Expertise, Gunnery Implants, Reliability Engineering
Integrated Hullmods: Extended Shields, Hardened Shields, Hardened Subsystems
Additional Hullmods: Stabilized Shields
Weapons: 2x Heavy Machinegun, 2x Light Assault Guns. You can alternatively go with just one Heavy Machinegun and one Assault Chaingun and invest the remaining OP into capacitors if you want less dakka and more survivability.
Rest of the OP: 19 vents ( like them to go dakka dakka, but you "could" spend some OP in vents since the ship is dead 90% of the time when it's close to the enemy and high on flux/overloaded)

The ship has 413 seconds of peak performance time with this setup. 4 of them methodically win against the two Simulation Onslaughts, but they're better off hunting enemy frigades and non-capitals in a real battlefield.

Edit: I've still got to get back to the Dragon and field one or two of those aswell. I reckon they'll do "fine" with Sabot pods and a hurricane plus expanded missile racks, ECCM and an officer with Elite Missile Specialization  8)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 12:27:10 PM by Arcagnello »
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Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
The therapist removed my F5 key.

Bueno Horse

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #312 on: May 07, 2021, 08:36:03 AM »

I hope this mod will be update for the actual version of starsector :3
... It is already.
That person copy pasted that in like 12 different threads, doubt they read anything  :-\

To be fair, the mod index lists this as 9.1a
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #313 on: May 07, 2021, 08:41:02 AM »

I hope this mod will be update for the actual version of starsector :3
... It is already.
That person copy pasted that in like 12 different threads, doubt they read anything  :-\

To be fair, the mod index lists this as 9.1a

Indeed!

Post Scriptum: Welcome to the forum by the way, my fellow, morally ambiguous, seldomly shady Starfarer  ;)
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KaptainKal

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Re: [0.95a] Underworld 1.6.1
« Reply #314 on: May 14, 2021, 01:46:25 AM »

The custom start for the upgradable battlewagon is my constant go-to for every single campaign ever since I discovered it, would absolutely love to see more custom starts with upgradeable ships if you ever get the chance!
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