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[ANGRYABOUTELVES]

I've always found the idea of running out of command points and not being able to give further orders to be bizarre. How about command points limiting the number of concurrent orders you can have active at once, instead? E.g. if you have 3 CP, you can have 3 escort commands up at once, but you can decide to remove the escort orders and issue 2 capture commands and 1 avoid command instead. I think the total number of CP available to the player would have to be reduced to compensate for them being re-usable, and sensor arrays/nav buoys would probably need to not give CP anymore. However, this would add a reason to want to hold on to a comm relay; if you lose it, some of your orders might end! This would also help fighter-heavy fleets that want a lot of command points for interception, strike, and escort orders, as once their target is dead or doesn't need an escort anymore you can reuse the command point.

[TJJ]

That'd definitively be a move in the right direction.

Though in most engagements the need for more than 2 or 3 concurrent orders doesn't really exist at the moment.
If there were more objectives, the battlefields were larger, and there was more tactical manoeuvring/posturing during combat (I'm thinking Total War battles), the number of concurrent orders would be a good constraint.

At the moment though, battles usually devolve into disorganised furballs; stricter formations & more responsive AI is needed IMHO.

[Megas]

So far, CP is most useful for marking the entire enemy fleet with the Avoid order to defeat fog-of-war, when player solos fights (with the appropriate overpowered flagship).

As for the OP, I like the idea.

[Sy]

i like the idea. being unable to issue new orders because you ran out of CP always feels rather strange. if you're instead able to cancel some current orders to issue new, more important ones, this should be much less of an issue. and unlike just removing CP completely, it (hopefully) wouldn't create the problem of feeling like you constantly have to micro-manage your fleet to play optimally.

So far, CP is most useful for marking the entire enemy fleet with the Avoid order to defeat fog-of-war, when player solos fights (with the appropriate overpowered flagship).

your way of playing this game never seizes to amaze me. xD

[Megas]

I just got Advanced Tactics 5 solely for the Special Ops perk (to board ships).  Since I have 8 CP instead of 3 CP, might as well put them to good use when my highly mobile flagship goes all over the place and enemy ships disappear from view.

I did not think of using Avoid as a marker on my own.  I read it in a bug report, then I mercilessly exploited it.  While Avoid is good for telling AI to avoid ships, I now use it mostly to mark enemy ships so I do not need to search for them down after I lose sight of them.

[CrashToDesktop]

This sounds like a pretty interesting idea.  Has my support, I'd like to see how this pans out.

[Schwartz]

The amount of points would have to be lowered quite a bit to accommodate this change. 1 CP to start with, maximum of 3... something like that. Right now, CP are a precious commodity and intended to be used as such. I quite like how it works now; it forces you to make priority decisions. If you just have X points to be active at any one time, you'll effectively never run out of them. You can be wasteful with your orders, you'll have 'points to burn'. You no longer have to think in terms of efficiency. That's a loss in gameplay depth.

So far, CP is most useful for marking the entire enemy fleet with the Avoid order to defeat fog-of-war

I doubt many people play the game like this. To me, CP are useful for early tactical positioning (claim Navs/Sensors if you have superiority, Assault and hold a cluster if you're hugely outnumbered), where you'll get hopefully one or two CP back thanks to captured points. From then on, it's priority targets. I use CP to reinforce struggling allies. For Strike orders on carriers. And to either gang up on or avoid overpowered capitals like the Cathedral class from SS+. Most of these are situational.

[Megas]

I know CP are meant to be used more conventionally.  Now, with disobedient ships (tell Lasher to capture point, but he will not), I cannot rely on my ships to do what they are told.

I usually solo fleets these days because my fleet is outnumbered and outclassed by the enemy, and the only way I can win without taking significant losses is to solo them with my flagship, and I chain flagships if one is not enough.

[nomadic_leader]

This does seem like a nice idea and also really simple which is good.

Should there be some differentiation between number of concurrent orders for different types of ships (ie fighters vs cruisers vs frigates etc)? Skills or officers could modify this I suppose.

Another approach would be that each size type of ship (frig, fighter, etc) requires a certain amount of time to 'recharge' before that ship can accept a new order. This may sound kind of stupid at first, but consider: fighters can quickly change orders and re-engage targets, but for a capital ship, first you the fleet admiral have to contact the captain of the ship, then he gives the word to the first mate and bosun, then they give it to the various department heads, engineering is notified, new courses are set, etc etc until it trickles down to the individual gunners and guys shoveling coal into the engines. So it would take a while before they can change the ship's overall task.

Then different subskills under leadership could reduce the 'recharge' times for different classes of ships, so you could micro more. Fleet officers who effect this kind of thing, if ever implemented, would be cool for that too.

But as it is there isn't so much tactics or real objectives on the battlefield so the frequency with which you need to make orders isn't very high, perhaps making this scheme sort of irrelevant.

[Sy]

first you the fleet admiral have to contact the captain of the ship, then he gives the word to the first mate and bosun, then they give it to the various department heads, engineering is notified, new courses are set, etc etc until it trickles down to the individual gunners and guys shoveling coal into the engines.

lorewise, large battles last for several days. i don't think it makes sense for even the largest capital ship to require hours (or anything more than a couple minutes, at most) to get orders from the commanding officer down to the individual gunners.

[Pax_Empyrean]

The reason we have limited CP in the first place is to keep the player focused on the action instead of updating orders on the tactical map every couple of seconds. It's a micromanagement reduction mechanism. It's not one I'm particularly enamored with, but that's what it's for. With that in mind, this suggestion still reduces the micromanagement workload, but doesn't go as far toward eliminating it as the present system does. Whether that's good or bad is debatable, but we should know why things are the way they are now in any case.

I think that if the present system is kept, then orders given right at the start of combat should not count against the total. Setting up escorts is kind of a basic thing that could, and would, realistically be done before combat is joined, and having it take a chunk out of your available CP is annoying.

Perhaps a combination of the two systems would work best. You could have a small number of reusable CP, but giving orders when those are already in effect would cost a point.

[Solinarius]

I mostly concur with Pax_Empyrean. If a temporary, unlimited pool of CP were available at the start of combat, the system would be more than fine as is. Also, wouldn't the previous suggestions add unnecessary micro to the combat map because of order shuffling?

[Megas]

With objectives, two to four CP will always be spent to capture objectives.  If player does not have Advanced Tactics, he often cannot give anymore orders until points are captured.  That works only as long as the player has a good chance to stomp on the enemy.  If player has more than a few points for Advanced Tactics, he might have enough points to do what he wants.

This is why I build fleets that can try to take care of themselves without any orders, and if they cannot, I will chain flagships and solo the battle.

[Gothars]

With that in mind, this suggestion still reduces the micromanagement workload, but doesn't go as far toward eliminating it as the present system does.

Correct, and that's why I don't think it would be a good idea. You would be inclined to constantly check if your current orders are optimal. Unfortunately, I believe this

You could have a small number of reusable CP, but giving orders when those are already in effect would cost a point.

would have the same effect.

If a temporary, unlimited pool of CP were available at the start of combat, the system would be more than fine as is.

Good start, and why not go further? Make a high amount of CP available in regular intervals, but unspent CP decay. So you would give orders in bursts, and not care about them in the meantime at all.

[Sy]

Good start, and why not go further? Make a high amount of CP available in regular intervals, but unspent CP decay. So you would give orders in bursts, and not care about them in the meantime at all.

that could help to reduce the problem of not being able to give important orders because you've got no CP left, but it would also feel like you're constantly wasting CP if you don't immediately give a bunch of new orders at those exact intervals.


related, i also think the "retreat!" order shouldn't cost CP, pretty much regardless of whether there are changes to how the CP-cap works. that's one of the main issues i've got with the current CP limit: if you don't want to order a full retreat, not being able to tell a ship at low hull or CR to "get the hell out of here!" can be a serious problem. and it isn't even possible to order a group of selected ships to retreat, the way you can order a group of ships to attack a specific enemy, escort a specific ally or go to a specific location. every single ship needs to be given the order individually, consuming one CP each time. if you've got a bunch of frigates that just ran out of PPT, but want to keep your bigger ships in the fight, just getting those frigates to safety can easily consume all available CP.