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Author Topic: Can't make any moolah?  (Read 6580 times)

Altiarxsaint

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Can't make any moolah?
« on: February 22, 2016, 09:38:49 PM »

Hello! I have been playing this game for a bit and I can't figure out why I can't make money. I try to buy low and sell high but that never works for me. I buy from a place that has 5000 food and sell to a place that has 10 food and I end up losing 28,000 credits. Plus the costs for traveling usually end up too high. Though that may just be because I am using a modded faction(Or several ;)) I have tried killing pirates but that does not get me anywhere, the repairs usually end up costing me more than I make.

Anybody able to help me figure out if my game has some sort of space famine or if it is just that I suck at the game lol
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DeMatt

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 10:57:03 PM »

Hello! I have been playing this game for a bit and I can't figure out why I can't make money.
...
Anybody able to help me figure out if my game has some sort of space famine or if it is just that I suck at the game lol
It's "you suck at the game".   :P  More generously, it's "you don't yet understand the underlying mechanics behind the game", added to "the start of Starsector is always the hardest part".

I try to buy low and sell high but that never works for me. I buy from a place that has 5000 food and sell to a place that has 10 food and I end up losing 28,000 credits.
The idea behind the market system is that most trade happens invisibly - there are megacorporations which have long-term contracts to handle trade, and the goods that end up on the Open Market are merely the leftovers.  Open Market trade, therefore, suffers from a 30% tariff - buy a good listed at 100 credits, pay 130;  sell a good listed at 100 credits, receive 70.  Similarly, that 5000 food, if on a highly-populated forgeworld like Chicomoztoc, might represent much less than a day's worth of rations for the populace, while the 10 food, on a small moon with a hydroponics plant, might be merely the hour's excess production.

Therefore, there's three things you should look for in trying to trade profitably:
  • Watch the prices, not the quantities.  This isn't the X-series, where stock = price.  Particularly watch out for exceeding local demand - any planet will buy any good, but unless there's official local demand, there's a steep dropoff in price as you sell goods.  And even with "official" local demand, there's limits on how much it demands.
  • Keep an eye out for trade disruptions in the news and on the Intel panel.  Just because those megacorps have the contracts, doesn't mean that they ignore piracy and open warfare.
  • The Black Market doesn't charge tariffs, so buying and selling on it can actually be profitable.  But the authorities get annoyed when you refuse to pay them.

Plus the costs for traveling usually end up too high. Though that may just be because I am using a modded faction(Or several ;))
Mods shouldn't affect travel costs;  if they are, I suggest you dump the mods and play "basic" Starsector.

I have tried killing pirates but that does not get me anywhere, the repairs usually end up costing me more than I make.
Unless you're a super-ace who can solo system defense fleets with a single frigate, combat is not intended to be profitable in and of itself.  Planetary governments sometimes offer bounties;  these can make combat profitable with some skill and luck.  It's worth noting that Corvus (the starting system in unmodified Starsector) starts off with an active bounty.
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Sy

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 01:10:21 AM »

DeMatt already explained the mechanics very well, but in case you don't know how to use the intel panel:

it's opened with the Intel button at the bottom (usurprisingly ^^).
if you want to know where you can buy or sell things at good prices, click Map, then Prices in the list to the right.

this shows recent prices of various goods across all star systems of the sector. the icons with red border mean prices are far above average, green ones are far below average.

do note that these prices are not necessarily 100% accurate, as the intel tab doesn't update everything in real time. it updates when you visit a market, or when your fleet hears interesting things on the news, like about food shortages or trade disruptions due to pirate activity. this also means there won't always be current intel available for every system, or for every type of good.

you can click on any icon to get more information about the exact prize, local demand and supply, and how long it has been since the displayed info has been updated.

if you're looking for places to buy or sell a specific good, just select that good from the list. if the good you're looking for isn't on the list, it means you haven't gotten any recent intel regarding it.


additionally, you can see prices from all recently visited markets in the tooltip of goods in your inventory or the trade panel.

this also shows your recent transactions, and how the final prices are changed by tariffs.

generally speaking, there won't be trade routes that are always profitable, like in most other games. instead you make a profit by taking advantage of events, buying when you find cheap goods, and selling when prizes are high. depending on how much demand/supply there is, prices might be stable for months, or only for a couple short weeks. as a rule of thumb, you'll want to only sell goods for at least double of what you bought them for, to be able to make any profit despite tariffs (unless you're dealing with the black market).



if you're trying to make money with combat, you'll want to check for bounties. these are either offered for destroying a specific fleet (or rather, the fleet's flagship) or simply for destroying any ships hostile to the offering faction while in or near the system that offers the bounty. bounties last for ~2 months.

sidenote: good bounties can be hard to find at the moment, especially since factions that are hostile to you do not pay you for completing their bounties. this will be improved with the next patch, so that there should be more frequent opportunities.


also, welcome to the forum! :]
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 04:03:00 AM by Sy »
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Euphytose

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 03:00:11 PM »

At the start of the game, the best place to make money is by doing zone bounties in Corvus for Hegemony or the Independents. That's only the two factions that are in this system, rest is pirates. Be at least neutral to Hege and Indies, wait for a bounty, and start attacking pirate fleets. You should be able to destroy most of them with ease with a Wolf or Lasher.
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Altiarxsaint

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 08:18:14 PM »

Jeebus guys, you practically wrote me a personal guide! Thanks a lot. I actually learned a few things from all of this too lolz
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Sy

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 10:20:12 PM »

Jeebus guys, you practically wrote me a personal guide! Thanks a lot. I actually learned a few things from all of this too lolz
you're welcome. :]

maybe someone really should make a proper guide.. i imagine you're not the only new player struggling with this. the in-game tutorials are sadly rather out of date, since keeping them updated throughout development would be quite a lot of work that might be wasted in the long run, as old mechanics are changed and new ones added.

oh yeah, one more thing: you mentioned that "costs for travelling" are too high. are you just talking about supplies and fuel, or monthly crew salaries? because the later are from the popular Starsector+ mod, not part of vanilla, and can be adjusted or disabled entirely in a config file.
if it's just supplies and fuel, i suggest keeping an eye out for low prices on both, then buy them in bulk and store them away somewhere for when you need them. you can sometimes find fuel for as little as 10 credits.
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Altiarxsaint

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 11:15:32 PM »

Thats a pretty good idea. I started using the map that shows where prices are high and low and what the demand and supply of each is. VERY useful, I actually didn't know that was in the game lolz. I have been doing a bit of trading and got up to around 450k then bought some frigates for defense, a tug, as well as some extra freighters. All is going well now my friend. Thanks again, and I agree that a guide would prolly be hard to keep up to date in alpha.
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Randy

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 01:47:36 AM »

Jeebus guys, you practically wrote me a personal guide! Thanks a lot. I actually learned a few things from all of this too lolz
you're welcome. :]

maybe someone really should make a proper guide.. i imagine you're not the only new player struggling with this. the in-game tutorials are sadly rather out of date, since keeping them updated throughout development would be quite a lot of work that might be wasted in the long run, as old mechanics are changed and new ones added.

oh yeah, one more thing: you mentioned that "costs for travelling" are too high. are you just talking about supplies and fuel, or monthly crew salaries? because the later are from the popular Starsector+ mod, not part of vanilla, and can be adjusted or disabled entirely in a config file.
if it's just supplies and fuel, i suggest keeping an eye out for low prices on both, then buy them in bulk and store them away somewhere for when you need them. you can sometimes find fuel for as little as 10 credits.

where's that config file?
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Sy

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 02:52:33 AM »

it's at \Starsector\mods\Starsector Plus\startOptions.json. change the crewSalaries default value 1.0 to whatever you like; 0.0 to disable that feature completely, 0.5 to cut costs in half, 2.0 to double them, etc. there are also a few other options in that file that can make your life a bit easier.
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 03:30:23 PM »

Try bounties. If you're lucky enough to get cash for a couple of frigates, take on a low-reward bounty. Don't go for ones that are too high, since a bounty fleet's ships will generally be the same value as the bounty, so bigger bounties mean giant fleets. Try bounties around 20,000 to 25,000. Since you'll be making a bunch of money per fight, and you won't need to do as many battles, it should make it easier to deal with supply costs. You might need to also stock up on some fuel if you're going to be travelling between star systems to get to the bounties.

You can also lead the bounty fleet to a nearby friendly patrol, who might attack the bounty fleet, letting you join in and take it on with backup. Since allies will generally be doing at least some work, you'll get a smaller salvage but it's not too bad.
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Kyuss11

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016, 05:57:35 AM »

I think that trading could use some love. I have played several space games and in every forum there are those players that like to TRADE.There are players that like to ease into the game or aren't confident enough to fight or just like the game says from the start,"Do you want to be a Humble merchant" why yes I do but now for some reason it becomes a chore to make money with fuel and supply cost and hoping the information that 5 days old is still correct to make the trade.Don't get me wrong I love this game but when you invest 30k in heavy machinery only to trust a 5 day information on profit and then you get there to see almost no profit,it kills trading and just makes this game a combat bounty hunting.

I was wondering if a mod could be written right now to tweak trading,for example:
When selecting Humble merchant there could be less fuel and supply cost at stations because of your profession.You would still use the same amount of fuel,supplies for the ship but stations would give you a discount or perhaps a different tariff tax all together.I noticed you get money bonuses for doing a mission in or under the time allocated.Could there be a different written terminology just like the bonuses?
I was wondering maybe a device or skill perk that would allow for NO chance to minimal percent of wrong information on trading goods or information on systems not been to.The price you see is what you get or like a rain check you get at a store.I understand that prices do change so this might be harder to do or make the mechanic for dynamic price change be reduced if you select the device or perk.The one exception to this would be disruptions as that is part of the game that makes it feel alive and so you would have to cut losses and do something different.Let me be clear it's ok sometimes to make or have a bad deal but we need the trading system to be more dependable and less often that bad deal happens.

I have watched Nemo play his seasons of Starsector and Corvus mode is all about bounty hunting very little to no trading,not even the missions are being done like in his season 7 or 8.I don't want trading and missions to fade away from this game or only be profitable to those that have played this game for 50+ hours to know when and why this mission or trading should be done at a exact moment.

I'm only here trying to make this game better for trading,so don't take my opinion in a bad way.
What do you guys think,has the game veered away from missions and trading?
How do we fix this ^?
Could the suggestions I wrote be modded and work for this game?
What are your ideas to fix this?
Do you know of some tips right now to make trading more fun,profitable?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 06:02:04 AM by Kyuss11 »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Can't make any moolah?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016, 11:07:45 AM »

I think that trading could use some love. I have played several space games and in every forum there are those players that like to TRADE.There are players that like to ease into the game or aren't confident enough to fight or just like the game says from the start,"Do you want to be a Humble merchant" why yes I do but now for some reason it becomes a chore to make money with fuel and supply cost and hoping the information that 5 days old is still correct to make the trade.Don't get me wrong I love this game but when you invest 30k in heavy machinery only to trust a 5 day information on profit and then you get there to see almost no profit,it kills trading and just makes this game a combat bounty hunting.

I was wondering if a mod could be written right now to tweak trading,for example:
When selecting Humble merchant there could be less fuel and supply cost at stations because of your profession.You would still use the same amount of fuel,supplies for the ship but stations would give you a discount or perhaps a different tariff tax all together.I noticed you get money bonuses for doing a mission in or under the time allocated.Could there be a different written terminology just like the bonuses?
I was wondering maybe a device or skill perk that would allow for NO chance to minimal percent of wrong information on trading goods or information on systems not been to.The price you see is what you get or like a rain check you get at a store.I understand that prices do change so this might be harder to do or make the mechanic for dynamic price change be reduced if you select the device or perk.The one exception to this would be disruptions as that is part of the game that makes it feel alive and so you would have to cut losses and do something different.Let me be clear it's ok sometimes to make or have a bad deal but we need the trading system to be more dependable and less often that bad deal happens.

I have watched Nemo play his seasons of Starsector and Corvus mode is all about bounty hunting very little to no trading,not even the missions are being done like in his season 7 or 8.I don't want trading and missions to fade away from this game or only be profitable to those that have played this game for 50+ hours to know when and why this mission or trading should be done at a exact moment.

I'm only here trying to make this game better for trading,so don't take my opinion in a bad way.
What do you guys think,has the game veered away from missions and trading?
How do we fix this ^?
Could the suggestions I wrote be modded and work for this game?
What are your ideas to fix this?
Do you know of some tips right now to make trading more fun,profitable?
The reason why Nemo doesn't do trade is because it is an LP and it is boring as hell watching someone do this. Hell, one LPer on here DID trade and ended up losing alot of potential viewers as trade is boring to watch
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