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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 355142 times)

Embolism

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #255 on: February 26, 2016, 08:09:24 PM »

A very quick thought: how's "Dynamic" sound compared to "Synergy" for energy/missile mounts? Synergy sounds nice but seems a bit out of place (it almost implies you can use two weapons in one to "synergise"), Dynamic sounds more "versatile" while retaining a high tech feel.

My opinion of course.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #256 on: February 26, 2016, 08:09:44 PM »

The redesigned Hurricane MIRV is also not very interesting. It tends to mostly ignore PD except for flak, leaving you shielding the submunitions until the ship runs out of ammo, because it's too risky to engage while it's still launching them unless you vastly overpower the enemy. In the end, you just game the ammo out, and if you can't, you'll probably get punished hard for it. Might be a side effect of how liberally the AI uses the weapon.
The MIRV is much like it was before it got unlimited ammo.  If your ship can shield-tank them, it is a good idea to do so until it runs out (most).
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #257 on: February 26, 2016, 08:11:24 PM »

Yeah, waiting for the enemy to predictably waste their missiles on your shield is really interesting
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #258 on: February 26, 2016, 08:15:04 PM »

it did occur to me that the Centurion (and to some degree the Wayfarer) would probably feel a lot better later on, in larger battles, where they can fire at several enemies at a time (without needing to focus one down on their own) or provide powerful beam support or PD to allied ships.

but then it is probably a poor fit for a starting option, where it will often be the only ship in the fleet for some time and needs to be able to take out several enemy frigates all by itself. if it's just there for variety's sake, that's fine for experienced players who know to avoid that option unless they want to have a bigger challenge. but it would be somewhat of a newbie trap, since trying to solo pirate fleets in that ship would likely feel rather frustrating, even though a "slower and hard to kill" bounty hunter's combat ship may sound like the perfect choice for someone unexperienced just starting out.

and now that the complaining has been taken care of, i'll go back to giggling with joy over my new Afflictor that i recently "aquired" found on Asharu's black market! ^_^
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:17:34 PM by Sy »
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #259 on: February 26, 2016, 08:22:21 PM »

The Doom's interdiction array is oddly satisfying to use. ;D
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #260 on: February 26, 2016, 08:28:08 PM »

Hey Alex, here is a screencap of what I was talking about. This is right after doing a new game
Spoiler
[close]
never mind it popped up after a few days... (Jan 29th) Sorry
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:43:06 PM by Midnight Kitsune »
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Euphytose

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #261 on: February 26, 2016, 08:28:22 PM »

Missiles are definitely too powerful. A barrage of harpoons will kill anything. The only other missiles worth using are the MIRV, which is basically the large harpoon, and reapers. By the way, the MIRV seems to have been buffed tremendously, the damage is through the roof. I can almost one shot an Enforcer now.

I also got an Afflictor and I don't really know how to use it best. I fitted it with 4 AM blasters, got 19 caps, no vents. I can one shot hammerheads and sunders from behind through the hole in their shields, but then again I could also be playing in an Enforcer and take a few extra seconds to achieve the same result. I've never really used phase ships before and now they seem a lot better but I don't know when to attack or what to attack with them.

I also have two bugs to report:

1) Sometimes friendly AIs will get stuck in a corner of the combat map, no order can debug them. You need to physically move near them and ask for escort.

2) The Onslaught has a new stock loadout that's quite "special" to say the least. It's called "Standard" like the other one, but it's most certainly not standard as it mounts missiles nearly everywhere, which of course isn't even possible. It works though.

Vanilla game.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:35:10 PM by Euphytose »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #262 on: February 26, 2016, 08:31:46 PM »

Centurion isn't the most exciting ship, even though it does fill an unexplored niche and is ridiculously hard to kill for a frigate. I can see the overarching idea behind it, but the end result is that you'll probably outfit it as a long range tac laser/gyro/ipdai ship almost every time, unless it's at the very start of the game. Need to test more though, it might be a funny unflankable point capping ship with a set of long-range ballistics on it, or as a "tank" with an aggressive officer to generate flanking opportunities.

What's the deal with the missile power creep, by the way? Missiles offer lower TTK and a higher degree of randomness than a few years back, and most patches have continued the trend in some way, although the Locust and Squall are good. (is the squall supposed to have 750 proj HP?)

Missile Specialization is the biggest culprit, but there are a few other changes too. The new Atropos isn't really fun to deal with, and it feels fairly brainless to use. If the enemy fleet has a few, you basically can't overload near those ships ever, or you die, forcing you to play extremely cautiously. This was already the case thanks to Harpoons and missile specialization, but now there's an added dimension to it. They're thankfully quite rare in vanilla, but I find it tedious. I wonder if the idea of a homing torpedo is inherently flawed.

Harpoons have become better against frigates over time. Frigates like to use Harpoons as equalizers against bigger ships. Bigger ships can never dodge harpoons reliably anymore due to the veering, but even frigates can struggle due to the fact harpoons will flip around and accelerate back if they miss on the first run. Maybe harpoons should commit more to their heading and instead try to predict based on the target's current vector, so that a frigate that reads the incoming missile's projected hit location can pull off a last-minute dodge, and to make the initial firing position more important.

The best defense against missiles is to crush the enemy ship so hard that you're never vulnerable in the first place.

The redesigned Hurricane MIRV is also not very interesting. It tends to mostly ignore PD except for flak, leaving you shielding the submunitions until the ship runs out of ammo, because it's too risky to engage while it's still launching them unless you vastly overpower the enemy. In the end, you just game the ammo out, and if you can't, you'll probably get punished hard for it. Might be a side effect of how liberally the AI uses the weapon.

I would like to expand upon this, I strongly dislike the entire flight profile of most vanilla missiles.

Evasion is essentially ineffective as the missiles have so much acceleration and turn ability that they just loop around and then hit the rear of the ship. Even more bizarre is how often they weave and sidewind around a stationary target effectively missing on purpose then hitting the rear! I would prefer a flight profile that relies on interception rather than massive maneuverability, where the weapon is fast and sets up a pass at the intercept point, if you evade it? Kudos, it is unlikely to be able to make a return pass on all but the largest targets. The weaving behavior would also taper off as it approaches the target at a faster rate than it does now which would fix the missing on purpose issue.

I feel that Salamanders are ok, Locusts are ok, Swarmers are ok, Annihilators are ok, and Squall are ok but every single other missile weapon uses distasteful mechanics. In the previous paragraph I described what I do not like about the agility and AI of standard guided missiles. But what of the others?

Why is the Sabot second stage projectile essentially hit scan?


 
So that mod missile weapon has a reasonable second stage, the primary missile actually aims the shot at an intercept point so its accurate while retaining a "fair" speed for the submunition. This is similar in a way to what I mentioned before about normal guided missiles, that a system that is smart instead of just boosting all the stats like crazy makes for a far more fair and balanced game.

What of torpedos and rockets? Same issue really, the AI is terrible at aiming them so to fix that they all have insane acceleration and top speed. You cast the finger of death and there is almost no possible way to defend against it via simple movement and PD has almost no response time. If the AI actually aimed rocket weapons properly then they could have reasonable speed and acceleration.

Bassically, I believe in the theory that every play should have a counter play but with how most missiles work right now there are few options to deal with them and they just are not fun. The way the AI works I don't agree with, most all of them are too agile and too fast, and the alpha strike is completely out of control and I am only talking about level 0.

A bit of a rant there, but it is what it is. Most mod missiles that use custom AI work similar to the theory I described that I believe makes for a better game.

Surge

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #263 on: February 26, 2016, 08:42:22 PM »

The Scarab seems a bit OP for a starter ship, though I suppose no more so than the Wolf already was. It IS starting to warp my perception of time in-game though, which is fun I guess.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #264 on: February 26, 2016, 08:47:39 PM »

-missiles power creep stuff
-more missile power creep stuff-
I really don't have much more to add except that I agree with these guys
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #265 on: February 26, 2016, 08:48:46 PM »

What exactly is OpenAL?  The host site gives almost no details on what it is, or what it does if I install it.
You remind me of someone at my college, a friend of mine - he worries WAY too much about everything that happens or doesn't happen.  A simple Google search will tell you that it's an audio application that's fairly common across pretty much every platform conceivable.
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icepick37

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #266 on: February 26, 2016, 08:51:44 PM »

The Scarab seems a bit OP for a starter ship, though I suppose no more so than the Wolf already was. It IS starting to warp my perception of time in-game though, which is fun I guess.

The more I use it the more I like it. It's kind of okay as a starter ship in that it takes some time to really comprehend what you have unleashed on the sector. It is a very powerful starter ship, though. That's for sure. Taking the hit against tri-tach probably makes up for that to some degree, though.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #267 on: February 26, 2016, 08:53:58 PM »

The Conquest's engine flare alignment is messed up.  No screenshot because it should be obvious if you look at it.
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Toxcity

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #268 on: February 26, 2016, 09:01:27 PM »

The Conquest's engine flare alignment is messed up.  No screenshot because it should be obvious if you look at it.
Same with the Hammerhead, though that ones a bit harder to see.

I'm okay with the turret layout of the Centurion, Scarab, and Wayfarer. They first two have Omni shields and ship systems that either mitigate/ let you more easily avoid incoming damage.
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Embolism

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #269 on: February 26, 2016, 09:01:51 PM »

Wasn't the Doom supposed to have its Medium Missile mounts changed to Synergy? Don't think this has been mentioned yet (or perhaps it has and I'm just blind).

Also, the Mudskipper Mk.II has the same cargo and crew capacity as the normal version. Seems like it should be greatly reduced.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:20:43 PM by Embolism »
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