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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 355140 times)

Originem

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #240 on: February 26, 2016, 06:01:56 PM »

Well done! So many amazing points that we could have a long time playing! Anyway, will 0.7.2a become a long-sustained version? We had just done the translation just for 0.7.1 not long ago.
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #241 on: February 26, 2016, 06:08:41 PM »

Scarab is hilarious, firing 3-4 annihilator volleys before the first one hits is an amazing feeling. Gets real nasty when you have 10 helmsmanship. Flank anything.

Stealth buff to Hammerhead? Did it always have 5000 hull (same as Enforcer)?
Yea
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #242 on: February 26, 2016, 06:13:58 PM »

Anyway, will 0.7.2a become a long-sustained version? We had just done the translation just for 0.7.1 not long ago.

That's the plan, yeah! (Also, sent you a PM with a question.)

Scarab is hilarious, firing 3-4 annihilator volleys before the first one hits is an amazing feeling. Gets real nasty when you have 10 helmsmanship. Flank anything.

Worth ... acquiring... from Tri-Tach? :)
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #243 on: February 26, 2016, 06:22:43 PM »

I can endure those stuffy bastards' resentment if it means I get to have bullet time.
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #244 on: February 26, 2016, 06:25:46 PM »

Haven't gotten ahold of a Scarab yet but from the Codex it seemed that its flux stats were pretty abysmal considering how many weapons it can mount...

Glad to hear that its ship system easily makes up for it!
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #245 on: February 26, 2016, 06:27:06 PM »

You won't really use all of its weapon mounts. Also it has a really efficient shield.
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Originem

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #246 on: February 26, 2016, 06:48:33 PM »

Anyway, will 0.7.2a become a long-sustained version? We had just done the translation just for 0.7.1 not long ago.

That's the plan, yeah! (Also, sent you a PM with a question.)


And i replied.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #247 on: February 26, 2016, 07:01:51 PM »

I like the Centurion. It's right up my alley – heavy armor and lots of guns. 8)

Also, turning to put different weapons on target makes me feel like a pro. :P
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #248 on: February 26, 2016, 07:10:24 PM »

i gotta say, i'm not a fan of the firing arcs of Wayfarer and Centurion. way too spread out for ships that are supposedly designed for combat. having only two small mounts for primary weapons (or a maximum of three, in a tiny arc, at an awkward angle) and being unable to have frontal PD coverage without sacrificing yet another of these two mounts seems really weak, especially for what is classified as a heavy frigate.

i understand that the Wayfarer is only a hybrid combat ship and the Centurion's strength is supposed to be its toughness, but i still feel this is too little. i think at least the two side-turrets should have firing arcs up to the center front (as in, not overlapping with each other). that would still only allow aiming a maximum of three weapons at a time at one enemy, but it wouldn't be at such a limited and awkward angle. alternatively it would allow having full (albeit weak) frontal PD coverage without having to give up a frontal mount.
even with a change like that, they'd still have far less focused firepower than a Lasher or Wolf.

edit:
I like the Centurion. It's right up my alley – heavy armor and lots of guns. 8)

Also, turning to put different weapons on target makes me feel like a pro. :P
looks like we feel rather differently. :D
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #249 on: February 26, 2016, 07:42:13 PM »

i gotta say, i'm not a fan of the firing arcs of Wayfarer and Centurion. way too spread out for ships that are supposedly designed for combat. having only two small mounts for primary weapons (or a maximum of three, in a tiny arc, at an awkward angle) and being unable to have frontal PD coverage without sacrificing yet another of these two mounts seems really weak, especially for what is classified as a heavy frigate.

i understand that the Wayfarer is only a hybrid combat ship and the Centurion's strength is supposed to be its toughness, but i still feel this is too little. i think at least the two side-turrets should have firing arcs up to the center front (as in, not overlapping with each other). that would still only allow aiming a maximum of three weapons at a time at one enemy, but it wouldn't be at such a limited and awkward angle. alternatively it would allow having full (albeit weak) frontal PD coverage without having to give up a frontal mount.
even with a change like that, they'd still have far less focused firepower than a Lasher or Wolf.

edit:
I like the Centurion. It's right up my alley – heavy armor and lots of guns. 8)

Also, turning to put different weapons on target makes me feel like a pro. :P
looks like we feel rather differently. :D
I completely agree here. The Centurion feels like an over-gunned freighter or a PD platform and not as an actual mine line combat frig
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #250 on: February 26, 2016, 07:48:23 PM »

The Centurion is a ship that explores a turret layout that provides similar coverage all around the ship; the explicit design goal is to not have it be a ship where frontal firepower is greatest, without making it a broadside ship at the same time. It's just a different style; lower single-target firepower but much better defensive capability and it's harder to be flanked.

It does also make a mean escort ship later in the game. The turret layout is a benefit, and it can survive the firepower that's flying around at that point.

Sure, if it could point more turrets towards the front, it'd be a better ship. But it probably wouldn't be a ship that got made at all, given that that role is nicely filled by all the aforementioned frigates.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #251 on: February 26, 2016, 07:51:23 PM »

@ Alex:  My monitor is a widescreen, 1920x1080.  Instead of disabling sound, I can reduce resolution (and disable fullscreen), and can run the game (maybe not extended play).  Like no sound, lowering resolution is not fun either (I have grown used to a bigger screen), but probably not as bad as no sound.

I have problems when I run 1920x1080 (or close to it) AND sound.  Did not have problems before 0.7.2 (without mods); do not have problems if I downgrade something (not fun).

What exactly is OpenAL?  The host site gives almost no details on what it is, or what it does if I install it.


i gotta say, i'm not a fan of the firing arcs of Wayfarer and Centurion. way too spread out for ships that are supposedly designed for combat. having only two small mounts for primary weapons (or a maximum of three, in a tiny arc, at an awkward angle) and being unable to have frontal PD coverage without sacrificing yet another of these two mounts seems really weak, especially for what is classified as a heavy frigate.
I noticed that, and it seems that way.  My gut instinct is to put LAG, and one kinetic at the front, and the rest Vulcans.  Centurion and Wayfarer feel like shuttles with lots of mounts for Vulcan PD.  Scarab seems to have a similar layout, but for worse energy weapons.
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Debido

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #252 on: February 26, 2016, 08:01:10 PM »

Alex did you release this patch just for little ol me? Time ships and API assistance for hiding TWIGs? You even wrote a 'temporal' shell ship system for me!
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #253 on: February 26, 2016, 08:03:59 PM »

Centurion isn't the most exciting ship, even though it does fill an unexplored niche and is ridiculously hard to kill for a frigate. I can see the overarching idea behind it, but the end result is that you'll probably outfit it as a long range tac laser/gyro/ipdai ship/burst laser platform almost every time, unless it's at the very start of the game. Need to test more though, it might be a funny unflankable point capping ship with a set of long-range ballistics on it, or as a "tank" with an aggressive officer to generate flanking opportunities.

What's the deal with the missile power creep, by the way? Missiles offer lower TTK and a higher degree of randomness than a few years back, and most patches have continued the trend in some way, although the Locust and Squall are good. (is the squall supposed to have 750 proj HP?)

Missile Specialization is the biggest culprit, but there are a few other changes too. The new Atropos isn't really fun to deal with, and it feels fairly brainless to use. If the enemy fleet has a few, you basically can't overload near those ships ever, or you die, forcing you to play extremely cautiously. This was already the case thanks to Harpoons and missile specialization, but now there's an added dimension to it. They're thankfully quite rare in vanilla, but I find it tedious. I wonder if the idea of a homing torpedo is inherently flawed. Torpedoes are supposed to pack enough punch to threaten bigger ships, so PD resistance and raw damage is their chief asset over MRMs. A fast, homing torpedo turns it into an asymmetrical weapon that favors top-down engagements, instead of being an equalizer, because the toughest ships aren't hard to hit in the first place. To put it bluntly, I feel like the Atropos doesn't really need to exist at all.

Harpoons have become better against frigates over time. Frigates like to use Harpoons as equalizers against bigger ships. Bigger ships can never dodge harpoons reliably anymore due to the veering, but even frigates can struggle due to the fact harpoons will flip around and accelerate back if they miss on the first run. Maybe harpoons should commit more to their heading and instead try to predict based on the target's current vector, so that a frigate that reads the incoming missile's projected hit location can pull off a last-minute dodge, and to make the initial firing position more important.

The best defense against missiles is to crush the enemy ship(s) so hard that you're never vulnerable in the first place. Counting on reacting to the missiles is unreliable (or impossible if given missile spec), unless you're already playing extremely defensively. The harder it is to minimize the impact of being punished by missiles (for either side) the more binary Starsector becomes and the more important it is to only choose asymmetrical engagements that are in your favor. And a lot of the time, you can just fire Harpoons indiscriminately to remove threats anyway, the concept of "punishment" or situational use has become a bit blurred. It's a tricky balance, because you would never use a missile with 3 ammo if you can't reliably gain anything from firing them.

The redesigned Hurricane MIRV is also not very interesting. It tends to mostly ignore PD except for flak, leaving you shielding the submunitions until the ship runs out of ammo, because it's too risky to engage while it's still launching them unless you vastly overpower the enemy. In the end, you just game the ammo out, and if you can't, you'll probably get punished hard for it. Might be a side effect of how liberally the AI uses the weapon.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:26:52 PM by Cycerin »
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #254 on: February 26, 2016, 08:06:01 PM »

The Centurion is a very interesting ship. Powerful enough to make the early game easier, but complicated to fly. The firing arcs and starting weapons make it more of a broadside ship, that wants to switch between being tilted to the left and tilted to the right depending on your target's flux levels and shield status. However, once I got the guns for it, I just decided to alternate the front four slots between Dual Autocannons and Light Assault Guns so that no matter which way it's pointing it has 1 kinetic and 1 HE gun facing the enemy. It's certainly tanky, and I quite like it.

Taking the Bounty Hunter's option to start with an extra ship and an officer bumps your burn speed down to 9, which makes it a bit hard to chase down pirates in Corvus. Slightly annoying.

I right-clicked my officer to remove him from a ship and transfer to another ship, and he disappeared entirely?

With the combination of the free ship + officer, and further nerfed pirates, I believe it is now possible for mortal men to claw their way out of the early game sinkhole of misery. Kudos.

Edit: A Mudskipper with a Large Ballistic Mount? What?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:17:10 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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