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Author Topic: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive  (Read 58194 times)

Foxd1e

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2016, 07:58:41 PM »

If they were, things probably wouldn't be able to land on them while they're phased, etc.

But there are phase fighters, at least, from mods. Like that Serket Phase Fighter from BRDY. Would a phase fighter be able to land on a phase carrier both in regular and p-space?

Edit: Quick question, does the Afflictor's ship system target a specific ship or does it provide an area of effect?

The only thing that came my mind was some sort of umbilical/tether/guide line for Phase Fighters and Phase Carriers so the Fighters can find their way home. Sorta like the Rope guide lines used in Antartic outposts.
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Alex

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2016, 08:45:49 PM »

But there are phase fighters, at least, from mods. Like that Serket Phase Fighter from BRDY. Would a phase fighter be able to land on a phase carrier both in regular and p-space?

Yes. All I meant by "not supported" is if there's any weirdness (either implementation or sense-making related), then it's not a bug and wouldn't be fixed.


Edit: Quick question, does the Afflictor's ship system target a specific ship or does it provide an area of effect?

Target.
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Zaphide

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2016, 10:05:31 PM »

Sounds like an awesome change. I think perhaps the changes you are making to support it could be used in other ways? Maybe an 'Entropy Cannon' that slows down time for a ship hit with the shells? :D

I experimented a bit with adding a large speed/maneuverability boost to the phase cloak system (combined with reduced combat deployment and increased flux costs) and it seemed to work quite well even with the current AI (although it still had a number of Phase Cloak AI pitfalls). It seemed to work best with strike weapons and with ship systems that were also strike-ish (i.e. increased RoF for a brief time).

One thing I did notice was due to the faster speed of the phase ships they were almost always engaging prior to the rest of a fleet, and had a bit of the Hyperion feel of almost untouchable (until their flux capacity ran out).
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TaLaR

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2016, 10:19:43 PM »

Seems to me that new phase ships will end solo player ship era, at least for anything below Capital size. Fighting against several ships that all have at least twice your speed (considering that player will pick one of fastest ships in class and has skills) and vent soft flux at triple rate... Well that doesn't work.
Unless you can reliably destroy them in 2 second window after uncloaking, I guess.



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JohnDoe

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2016, 10:50:02 PM »

Just more reasons to install Phase Beams 8)
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Taverius

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2016, 11:14:22 PM »

Or the new ion weapons .... or other EMP weapons.
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TaLaR

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2016, 11:20:16 PM »

EMP or weapon damage is unlikely to be useful against 3x repair rate of phased ships.
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Achataeon

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2016, 11:31:02 PM »

Aah. But they would have to spend a certain amount of time in p-space for that. That's an extra few seconds of peak performance drop, and several seconds of phase cloak. Which means hard flux problems. And all that happening at 3x normal speed. When the phase ship inevitably returnds to normal space, it would have: a) less peak performance time b)increased flux c) to wait 2 seconds to get back to p-space again.

So, yeah. Even if burst damage doesn't outright destroy a phase ship, it would cripple it anyway.
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Auraknight

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #98 on: February 01, 2016, 04:12:14 AM »

I personally can't wait for the hullmod that boosts the slowdown in P.space. Putting it up to 5x, so you are moving faster then even other phase ships would be handy. Or maybe even slowing it down to just 50%, in exchange for some bonus, or at least, an alleviation of the penalty. A Prototype Phase module that makes things work as they do now is also something I'm interested in seeing how it'd match up.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2016, 04:43:07 AM »

Or the new ion weapons .... or other EMP weapons.
If the new mechanic prove too powerful, what could be interesting is that EMP damage extend a bit (maybe one or two seconds) the time a phase ship need to be able to phase out again after uncloaking. It wouls add a nice incentive to mix your loadout.
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Megas

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2016, 07:09:13 AM »

Seems to me that new phase ships will end solo player ship era, at least for anything below Capital size. Fighting against several ships that all have at least twice your speed (considering that player will pick one of fastest ships in class and has skills) and vent soft flux at triple rate... Well that doesn't work.
Doubtful.  At the very least, ship can hide at the edge or corner to prevent ships from flanking.  Slow capitals already benefit from this when about a dozen or so frigates (Hounds, Wolves, Tempests, phase ships and maybe an Omen or Hyperion) attempt to gang-up.  If anything, phase ships will probably be easier to smash because once they uncloak, they cannot cloak again immediately, and capital can smash it.  Currently, phase ships are very good at not dying.  For now, Shade is a better tank than a Monitor.
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Dri

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #101 on: February 01, 2016, 07:56:51 AM »

Lets just all agree we should try it ourselves before going all Chicken Little. :P
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Alex

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #102 on: February 01, 2016, 12:03:40 PM »

Sounds like an awesome change. I think perhaps the changes you are making to support it could be used in other ways? Maybe an 'Entropy Cannon' that slows down time for a ship hit with the shells? :D

Oddly enough, the fast-time shenanigans came along before the phase changes for another reason, and then just seemed like a good fit for phase cloaking.

I experimented a bit with adding a large speed/maneuverability boost to the phase cloak system (combined with reduced combat deployment and increased flux costs) and it seemed to work quite well even with the current AI (although it still had a number of Phase Cloak AI pitfalls). It seemed to work best with strike weapons and with ship systems that were also strike-ish (i.e. increased RoF for a brief time).

Yeah, strike weapons definitely feel most useful - or, at least, weapons that can get most of their damage out during the cloak cooldown. Although something longer-ranged can work pretty well, too.

So, yeah. Even if burst damage doesn't outright destroy a phase ship, it would cripple it anyway.

I wouldn't count on being able to nail them with burst damage, really. The impact of the cooldown is mainly in phase ships needing to be more careful about where they unphase, but they *are* careful. You can defend by moving your shields and weapons to track the ship, but it's not going to uncloak in front of your AM blaster/etc if it can at all help it.


If the new mechanic prove too powerful, what could be interesting is that EMP damage extend a bit (maybe one or two seconds) the time a phase ship need to be able to phase out again after uncloaking. It wouls add a nice incentive to mix your loadout.

Neat idea!

At the very least, ship can hide at the edge or corner to prevent ships from flanking.

I wouldn't count on being able to do that nearly as well (or at all) in the next release.
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Dri

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2016, 01:12:49 PM »

Oh? How are ya gonna solve the corner camping? Seems like a touchy subject what with allowing AI ships to fly out of bounds but not the player ship.
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JohnDoe

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2016, 01:22:27 PM »

Oh? How are ya gonna solve the corner camping? Seems like a touchy subject what with allowing AI ships to fly out of bounds but not the player ship.

You think timid officers are annoying now? Try allowing them to fly out of bounds.
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