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Author Topic: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector  (Read 10407 times)

Audiopulse

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My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« on: January 12, 2016, 05:17:35 PM »

Back when I initially asked whether this game is worth 10€ in 2013, someone asked me to make sure to come back and give my initial feedback, as a Newbie, to the game - and why should I not? Here it is... :)


First things first - this game looks so unbelievable pretty. The engine-trails in system-view, the planets - oh my god the planets - and all the pretty nice explosions. Sprites are just the thing to make everything look truly beautiful when well done - and Starsectors sprites -are- well done ;)

Gameplaywise it feels vibrant, too. Everything seems to fall into place - nothing that feels tacked on, unecessary or even underdeveloped, which sounds weird for a game in its Alpha-stage. Especially when you consider todays standarts around Early Access.
Something particular I noticed that I cannot really explain: Starsector at times conveys a feeling I get from Collectible-games. Certain traits like the orbital laser burning jungles for farmland (how cool is that idea?) to some stations or planets are represented by these symbols. They feel like 'Cards' or 'Tokens' from other games that you could, by some means, win and collect for yourself when the circumstances are right ... like with cities you built in the civilization-games, maybe?

Other mechanics like the Black market enrich the immersion as well. Ever since Freelancer and before that you could turn rogue and be a pirate. Not a single spacegame I could think of that wouldnt try to offer you to be the bad guy. And like industrialization and trading - most of these games keep that at more or less shallow levels. Often because its a mere "on-or-off"-decision. Black or White. You cant really be the little low-life-scrub in-between that actually tries to abide the law but maybe has to take some shady options every now and then to progress. In games like freelancer its either "Pirates shoot you, Rheinland likes you" or "Rheinland shoots you, Pirates like you." Almost never inbetween.
Somewhat similar are the many different and justified roles ships can have. Tankers, Gantries, Transports, Tugs ... and they all have a distinct use! I can have Shuttles being absolutely unarmed but fitted for maximum speed and it totally works for the game! Now I only wish I could split forces and send Detachments to go and get Fuel for the Mainfleed hiding in some Nebula, conducting Repairs.


There are things I am grinding my teeth on, though. Things that will probably change as Alex and his crew bring the game further. Trading would be my most obvious example where it seems impossible to turn a profit. I have already been told that this is supposed to change later in the game, when prices stabilise and I get bigger ships to haul - but that can hardly be what Starsector aimed for. Isnt it the Newbies that need some stable low-to-medium paying goods that gets them around the universe and earn a few first coins? I remember hauling Water with my first Rhino in Freelancer between Manhattan and Pittsburgh to bolster myself up a bit, before chasing the story again. It was repetetive - and I liked that! Nothing like simple Mining or Hauling to relax every now and then.

End then there is the "hunting"-phase. With your fleet in system-view you get to manage fuel, supplies, Sensor- and Detectionrates as well as navigating around hostile fleets and hazards. It should have, in some way, a sort of "Silent-hunter"-feel to it, where I gladly spent Real-life-hours to chase down enemy tankers to catch and blow them sky-high while always witfully dodging other patrols and accompanying destroyers but in Starsector it feels a lot more luck-based. I feel my own sensors are just too weak and it is always just a question of time til I bump into that one contact popping up too close to turn and run and too big to fight. If I see them - they see me. Often there is just no warning sign or even enough time to "go dark".
On the other side of the coin I often enough ran out of hostiles to farm myself. Without which I couldnt grow enough to take on the bigger fleets in Hyperspace. It would be nice if I could at least get a simple blip where "something" is, withough knowing anything more of it: Size, Faction, Heading, Purpose... maybe even if it is a fleet at all. At one point I was thinking about leaving detectable trails similar to the tech-babble from the StarTrek Series. Silent Hunters Map-view might lend some nice ideas as well, here, where we had enough options to go from 100% hidden (Diving below thermal line, silent running, hiding in nebul... I mean crevices) past listening for distant engines (Like the ability we have now, only i never seem to get any returns) to revealing everything with sonar ping - for the tradeoff that you just lit yourself up like a christmastree for everyone else.


Last but not least the starving Industrialist in me wants to say something as well ;) I already mentioned elsewhere that I like big Freighters and I cannot lie. I like to look at them but never get to. You never really see all your Utilityships as long as you can successfully keep them out of battles. Isnt that a shame for all those well-made Sprites? Besides - when it finally came to my last stand and I had my Freighters retreat across the map, trying to cover them with my remaining fighters - they did look really epic. Full blasting engines and all.
So how could we make them more visible? I had a brief thougt about showing Ships of your fleet in the background of the combat-map lying in wait. Or maybe that initial cruise-phase where your deployed ships boost in from the bottom of the map? Maybe show your reserve briefly before them falling back?
One last wishful fantasy, that would require certainly more work, though, would give locations (like orbital stations, Planets and most importantly industrial sites later) a background similar to the combat-map, where your fleet closes in and occupies landingpads, dockinggantries or - for the biggest Hulks - to just park outside to be served by tiny shuttles. An Idea kind of similar to what the X-games started with their very first game: Enabling you to actively dock your ship yourself or just watch it happen with the dockingpilot installed. I wouldnt see that as mere Eye-candy, by the way. Its similar to Freelancers Edison Trent walking into the bar, the tradehubs or the ship-vendors - it is great immersion! Did you ever forget the first time you entered the Saleroom on Planet Manhattan for the first time?


Lots and lots of Text. If you read all this, you earned my respect ;) I would also love to talk about Industry, Trading and Economy - but I would first prefer to look if theres actually some Information to be found on what Alex had maybe planned.
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Dri

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 05:46:27 PM »

Folks who played the older space sim games seem to butt heads with Starsectors trading.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 08:11:07 PM »

Okay about all the cool industrial ships you never see until you get to a hopeless battle where you're about to save scum...

How about just letting us zoom farther in on the campaign screen so we can see all our ships once and a while? of course nobody would stay there very long since you need to watch for incoming hostile fleets, but it might be nice to have.

but yea, the artificial separation between combat and campaign is starsector's achilles' heel which can never be fixed. Campaign takes place in a rich, colourful, beautiful, and boundless feeling world. combat, every single battle, is totally separate and takes place in the same identical, cheesy little box with walls that you bounce off of if you run into them. ugh, like the Atari game Asteroids or something. and it requires you have all the artificial mechanics of CR, deployment points, etc. You can choose to 'hide' your freighters and not deploy them. Uh, where? So combat always feels like a boring game of checkers to me. Oh well, for whatever reason this was the design choice and we have to stick with it, but no matter how much starsector improves, i will always feel a significant ambivalence about the game because of this.
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Alex

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2016, 09:20:42 PM »

@Audiopulse: thank you for your feedback! Much appreciated :)
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grinningsphinx

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2016, 09:40:13 PM »

Folks who played the older space sim games seem to butt heads with Starsectors trading.

Because the trading as is makes zero sense to anyone.. I dont even bother with it.
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Achataeon

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2016, 10:25:18 PM »

It was, and still is, made to be an exploitation-based sort of trading. Although I wouldn't mind it being changed a bit. But as it is, you can earn a crap ton of money with minimal capital if you just exploit an event. Some of the more common ones are with supplies and fuel dropping down to <50 $pacebucks per unit, and selling them to systems where there are rampant trade disruptions that bring supplies up to us much as 700 $pacebucks per unit.
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Audiopulse

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2016, 04:09:41 AM »

Folks who played the older space sim games seem to butt heads with Starsectors trading.
;D

@Audiopulse: thank you for your feedback! Much appreciated :)
Great! I really enjoy your work! :)
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Dri

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 08:36:50 AM »

Oh, I suppose I agree on the trading being rather lacking. I made a post a bit ago about how I'd like there to be an option to "space truck" goods back and forth for a small but guaranteed profit. Something like load up on Organics in Jangala and then ship them to any world that has a "Light Industry" market mod (which increases demand for Organics) for a profit each time provided crazy trade disruption events aren't going on.

So keep the event trading and have it be the most profitable kind of trading, but also allow for simple/basic trading at a much lower but more reliable profit.
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Megas

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 08:51:44 AM »

Quote
Last but not least the starving Industrialist in me wants to say something as well Wink I already mentioned elsewhere that I like big Freighters and I cannot lie. I like to look at them but never get to. You never really see all your Utilityships as long as you can successfully keep them out of battles. Isnt that a shame for all those well-made Sprites? Besides - when it finally came to my last stand and I had my Freighters retreat across the map, trying to cover them with my remaining fighters - they did look really epic. Full blasting engines and all.
Player will see civilians frequently... as remaining enemy ships to destroy after destroying the warships.

If player is forced to deploy civilians, he is in serious trouble.  Civilians that are too slow will die.
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Audiopulse

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 01:12:22 PM »

Yes, but those are not mine - my point was being able to see your own ships. Being able to admire your fleet with all of those little helpers in the back. In a perfect world I would in some way get to see them work: Repair-gantries docking at broadside with large Cruisers, Weldingsparks buzzing up every now and then. Tankers connecting with other ships, replenishing fuel ... tiny shuttles going inbetween larger ships.

We do have fair amounts of 'Background-screens' that dont really show anything. Whenever you dock at places or after battles, where the important Infos are posted in the front. Maybe thats where you could display your fleet in the background?
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nomadic_leader

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 03:17:12 PM »


If player is forced to deploy civilians, he is in serious trouble.  Civilians that are too slow will die.

all fleets should have to deploy all their ships, so battles would actually become interesting. instead of a series of click-thrue harry/pursue/whatever menu screens ending in a turkeyshoot blasting away at the rear ends of mothballed freighters
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Audiopulse

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 03:30:52 PM »

Like, starting on much bigger maps where Supplemental Forces are simply placed way back? I dont know how that would work but ... it might be worth testing.

Ive been waiting for an opportunity to use my freighters as a supporting Weaponsplatform sending Pilums against enemy Destroyers.

On another sidenote - since this is still Feedback: I forgot the really great music! :D The other day I found a somewhat anarchistic system (the name I forgot) and landed at a bar - great tunes! Great Artworks, too.
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Megas

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 03:31:43 PM »

As long as the game has max battle size, it is impossible to deploy all if the fleets are big enough.  With increased worth of bigger ships, player can lock out most ships by going to settings and lower battle size from default 200 to minimum 150.  (I set mine to the max of 500.)  Fleets cannot deploy as much ships as they used to.
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Sy

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 03:33:34 PM »

Yes, but those are not mine - my point was being able to see your own ships. Being able to admire your fleet with all of those little helpers in the back. In a perfect world I would in some way get to see them work: Repair-gantries docking at broadside with large Cruisers, Weldingsparks buzzing up every now and then. Tankers connecting with other ships, replenishing fuel ... tiny shuttles going inbetween larger ships.
that would be really cool! but i imagine it would also take a lot of work to make it look good. :/
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Chaos Farseer

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Re: My Impressions as a Newbie to StarSector
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2016, 08:53:17 PM »

You could do something simple, appearance-wise. Make a large dock station for the backdrop, and put a single relevant player ship within it. When you hit repair, put the most damaged ship or the one with least CR, when you trade pick the ship with the highest cargo capacity, otherwise perhaps just put in a random ship from your fleet. For bonus points, there could be some limited art such as miniscule cargo haulers flying about or sparks on a ship undergoing repairs.

Went and mocked up what it might look like, I guess. Dark.Revenant, if you'd like me to take it down because it uses your Cathedral-class ship, let me know.

The station should probably be on the bottom, since that area is more likely to not be covered by something else. I'm using the Cathedral as a placeholder for the station docked at. The bottom-middle ship is currently an Atlas to match up with the trading screen. And your other ships can be scattered elsewhere behind the UI.
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