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Author Topic: Horrible capture/defend AI commands  (Read 13353 times)

Weltall

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2015, 04:14:37 PM »

If you ordered the destroyer to capture the point, the game did not register it as Capture, but as Rally. Except if you mean it otherwise? Because if you check the videos I uploaded, even trying to assign a Destroyed to capture a point, by right clicking on the capture spot, the game considers it rally of your forces and not capture. That makes your ships go towards there, but not care enough to capture the point. I have looked up close using  the capture command now and indeed the fighter/frigate goes to the point and parks there, trying to not move for the spot.

I have not really use the assault command to capture a point, but first marking a spot as capture and then rallying a couple of ship there  works quite well. As soon as the enemy is overpowered the ship seem to try to stay on the spot there, while other ships attack the remaining. So indeed I was just doing it wrong. In the video the destroyer I send to the point just goes there and then fights whatever is close. It takes a while for the enemy to be pushed back and for the Sunder ti go back to his rallied point. If you first assign this as a capture point, it is very obvious that the ships try to fight around the point, rather than drift away from it fighting. As soon as not many forces are left really close, the sunder backed up and captured the point.  I tested this on the same enemy fleet as the videos.


As you can see in the video, from the beginning the fighters that were assigned to capture the point, try their best even after they get overwhelmed to stay close to the capture point. Later when the Sunder stays there he tries his best to remain around the point. At a moment that he stars capturing obviously if he remained a bit more there he would manage to capture it, but the AI definitely is trying to put priority in being at the best spot probably, so when he gets flanked. But even if he did not capture it all fast, it is obvious toward the end of the video where he finally parks there, that even if close-by a battle is going on, he decides to first capture the spot and then after do anything else.

Finally! I can imagine my Officer before being like ; But Cap'n, you never asked me to capture the point. You just kept telling me to go there. Be more specific next time, like you were now! >.<!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 09:03:42 PM by weltall »
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Nick XR

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2015, 09:00:51 PM »

In that video, if the Sunderer was basically going to hold still and tank the smaller craft, it could have at least done it on its assigned capture objective.  That's the kind of behavior that makes me crazy.

I'll have to try using 'Assault' order next time, although based on the name you would think it's not as adept as the 'capture' objective at capturing.

Weltall

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2015, 09:11:04 PM »

Like I said, the Sunder can't capture the point. I up to today though that when I chose my destroyers and right clicked a capture point, the destroyer took the command to capture the point. That is not the case. If you look close to my previous videos where I send only the Sunder, you will see it says rallying forces. That means that doing that you just tell to the destroyer or any larger ship, to go there and stay there to intercept what comes that way. You are not telling it to capture the point.

The only possible ship you can use currently to capture points are fighters and frigates. This is why first designating the point as a general capture point and then sending you ship there, actually works.

It does not matter which command you will use. If you send your ships there without designating the point as a capture point, they will not care to capture it first. They will put priority in intercepting and fighting any craft that goes close to that point. Assault might work because if a lot of craft manage to pass through that point, it will eventually be captured, if one comes behind the other.

The only possible ways to capture a point seem to be either selecting a single fighter or a single frigate and then right click the spot. Afar from the you can also select the point and press the capture button. Only after you do that, you can send there your Cruiser fleet or any other craft you want to. If you do not first though designate the spot as capture, your ship will never care enough to capture it, until every single enemy remotely close to that spot it dead.
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Gezzaman

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2015, 09:24:18 PM »

If you ordered the destroyer to capture the point, the game did not register it as Capture, but as Rally.


^

If you send anything that is destroyer or larger to a sensor, it is not capture but rally for some reason, probably a bug?
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2015, 09:36:01 PM »

A rough guess: if you assign the ships that could be assigned automatically if you just issued capture command on an objective, the command becomes capture.

Capture by default auto-assigns a single smallest possible ship, and goes up when the enemies are nearby.
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Weltall

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2015, 09:44:46 PM »

It is not a bug. When finally Dark Revenant pointed out that in my video it was rally and not capture, Alex said that he should probably make it so Destroyers capture the point, rather than get rallied there.

It is intended for the game to not capture a point with anything larger than a frigate, but rally them there. Even in the tutorial after I thought about it, it shown only fighter and frigate capturing the points.

The only way like I said for anything larger to capture a point, is to first choose the point and assign it as a Capture point and then send the ship. In the last video I sent, if you look carefully, I first choose the point and then press capture. After the point get assigned for capture, I select my Destroyer and again right click the capture point, sending it there, which ends up sending 2 points to do that.
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Alex

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2015, 09:57:13 PM »

It is intended for the game to not capture a point with anything larger than a frigate, but rally them there. Even in the tutorial after I thought about it, it shown only fighter and frigate capturing the points.

That's not really true - ships up to cruiser size will be assigned to "capture" assignments, if they're fast enough - but the issue is that the assignment it picks to auto-create when right-clicking with a destroyer selected is not "capture". But that doesn't affect what behavior destroyers will have when they *are* assigned to a capture assignment.

The only way like I said for anything larger to capture a point, is to first choose the point and assign it as a Capture point and then send the ship. In the last video I sent, if you look carefully, I first choose the point and then press capture. After the point get assigned for capture, I select my Destroyer and again right click the capture point, sending it there, which ends up sending 2 points to do that.

It should only take one point if you do it while the "command frequency" is still open after creating the assignment - i.e. within 5 seconds or so.
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2015, 10:21:15 PM »

And command frequency countdown doesn't tick if you pause the game right after doing that.
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Weltall

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2015, 10:29:14 PM »

That's not really true - ships up to cruiser size will be assigned to "capture" assignments, if they're fast enough - but the issue is that the assignment it picks to auto-create when right-clicking with a destroyer selected is not "capture". But that doesn't affect what behavior destroyers will have when they *are* assigned to a capture assignment.

No I did not mean that. I do understand the game chooses the fastest craft. I mean like for example, if you choose a slow Warthog and right click on a nav buoy, the game will send it to capture the point. But when you choose a Sunder and right click on the nav buoy, the game will just consider you want your ship to get rallied towards that point. So if the player wants to send a specific destroyer/cruiser at a capture point, by itself, it is impossible. The only way that i can see, is to designate the point as a capture point and then send the ship you want.

It should only take one point if you do it while the "command frequency" is still open after creating the assignment - i.e. within 5 seconds or so.

That is definitely good to know. I thought the time limit was only for the same order or canceling order. :D That just made my day.

And command frequency countdown doesn't tick if you pause the game right after doing that.

O.O.. I hope that is intended and that it will remain.. :D

Finally I will not have trouble with points before i level the skill that gives you extra :D
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2015, 11:09:08 PM »

It definately is intended. Starsector aims to have combat requiring careful thinking and strategic plan, not just reflection speed.
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Horrible capture/defend AI commands
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2015, 08:32:33 AM »

I have definitely noticed that when outnumbered, destroyers will sometimes charge straight for groups of frigates and fighters a long distance away, then getting surrounded and pelted and cut off from the main fleet, all the while being assigned to an objective that they can no longer defend at all.
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