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Author Topic: The best shipping ships  (Read 13062 times)

speeder

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The best shipping ships
« on: December 20, 2015, 07:36:09 PM »

I was trying to figure for my mod, how much it costs to ship stuff.

So I made a LOCalc Spreadsheet

Here are some notable info:

1. Shuttles suck, period.
1.1 Shepherd suck even more than the shuttles.

2. Cerberus is a mediocre ship, Hound is even worse, but still better than shuttles (by a margin of average cost of moving cargo being 1/4 than of a shuttle)

3. Best dry goods transport ships, assuming a route from Corvus to Askonia:

EDIT: Explanation of the number: The formula is: ( total space - space used on the trip ) / ( supplies + fuel price for the trip )
Example: Starliner at burn level 8, takes 0.21 of a month to make a 5 ly trip, this mean it needs 3.13 supplies, and 21 fuel, for a total of 1362.50 credits for the trip, also 446.88 of cargo space will be available (because you used 3.13 for the trip supplies), thus it can ship 446.88 cargo for 1362.50 credits, thus 1362.50 / 446.88 = 3.05

Atlas (1.89 per cargo unit)
Buffalo (2.52)
Tarsus (2.55)
Starliner (!!! 3.05)
Mule (3.34)
Gemini (!! 3.58)

4. Same as above, but for liquid goods (for now, only fuel...)

Phaeton (0.77)
Dram (1.13)
Prometheus (1.29)
Cerberus (O.o 5.71)
Starliner (!! 5.95)

honorable mention to Gemini (6.53)

all other ships are worse, most of them much worse, also Prometheus is seemly not worth it, unless you need its combat power...

5. Same as above, but to transport passengers (crew and/or marines)

Starliner (0.88)
Nebula (2.03)
Valkyrie (2.61)
Mudskipper (4.07)
Gemini (10.44)

6. Overall good ships:

Starliner is just awesome, better than the mule for dry goods, almost better than all non-tanker ships for fuel, and more than 100% more efficient than the second place to transport passengers.

Gemini in a surprising twist (to me at least), is a reasonable ship, that has flight decks!

If you don't care about cargo transport profitability, but do care about flexbility, all combat freighters are reasonably interesting (but if you care about combat + cargo only, then mule is the ship of choice).

Mudskipper and Nebula are one of the worst "cargo" ships that still have a utility as "cargo" ships, but overall they aren't bad, having all transportation costs in mid to low range.

7. Notably non-interesting ship:

Valkyrie, if you ignore the lore (that says it can land and provide fire support on atmosphere), suck.

8. Final conclusions:

Don't ship fuel with Atlas, only Valkyrie and the shuttles are worst there.
All cargo ships cost around 75 credits to ship a passenger... don't do it (even for marines is probably unprofitable)
Did I say that shuttles suck?

Oh nevermind, what matters is that Starliner is really *** great and awesome... and now I need to grip my seat hard hoping Alex won't nerf it...


9. Random useless trivia: the term "nerf" came from Ultima Online, when they tried to balance the Katana by making it suck, players started to say that the Katana was in fact a nerf bat, because getting hit by a Katana hurt as much as getting hit by a nerf bat, the verb "to nerf" then intended to mean turn a weapon into a nerf version of the weapon.

EDIT: shepherd suck even more than shuttles.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 07:42:02 AM by speeder »
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Weltall

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2015, 07:54:18 PM »

I can see how you calculate such stuff, but considering there is a game limit of how many ships a fleet can have, which is 25, having less ships with more cargo is taken in account as well. For example in my opinion the best way to transport liquid in enormous amounts is Prometheus. A large tug would be able to make 4 of them to reach speed 8 and even if the loss would be bigger than transporting with Phaeton, you would be able to easily buy huge amounts of liquid, while of course the prices are good. After all some really good deals do not give second chances.

If there was no limit for ships, of course it would be better to have 3 Phaeton vs 1 Prometheus. Currently when I become huge and if no Capital Ship needs a Tug, I use a large tug for 3 Atlas and 1 Prometheus.
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StarSchulz

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2015, 08:54:36 PM »

whats wrong with the hermes? it doesn't hold too much but it has got to be efficient in the supplies/month and fuel department. not to mention it is incredibly fast and can usually run away if it gets into a fight.

Techhead

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2015, 09:28:55 PM »

I also don't see mention of the humble Shepard, here. Although I haven't done the math I suspect it's the best frigate for dry goods, and many prefer it in combat when compared to the Hound and Cerberus.
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Aeson

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2015, 11:20:47 PM »

it doesn't hold too much but it has got to be efficient in the supplies/month and fuel department.
As far as fuel efficiency goes, the Hermes is actually a very poor freighter, moving only 50 units of cargo 1 lightyear on 1 unit of fuel, which is basically the average1 for warships, only two thirds the fuel efficiency of the Hound, merely half the fuel efficiency of the Shepherd and Cerberus, only a third of the fuel efficiency of the destroyer-scale freighters, and just a quarter of the fuel efficiency of the Atlas.

As far as supply efficiency goes, the Hermes appears fairly decent at first glance, but you also have to remember that it's relatively slow for its cargo capacity, and you also have to remember that if you're looking at other ships within its weight class (i.e. other frigates), you're not really consuming that many more supplies per month in an absolute sense even though the relative supply consumption of other ships is much higher (unless we're talking about the Hyperion, but if you're considering using the Hyperion as a freighter you're crazy). If an average run is sufficiently profitable, then completing more runs per month is better than consuming less supplies per month, and when the absolute difference in supply consumption is only a few supplies (other than the Hyperion, no combat frigate consumes more than 3 supplies more per month than the Hermes does), you don't need that great a profit per run to make the faster ship more economical despite its higher upkeep. For example, if the Wolf can complete 1 run more per month than the Hermes can, then if supplies cost 100 credits per unit (after tariffs) the Hermes is only a more economical freighter than the Wolf if the net before travel expenses per run is under 300 credits. If you plan to do a trade run, then a Wolf or Hermes can easily carry about 40 units of cargo for trading while still maintaining an amply sufficient supply reserve for the occasional combat deployment or emergency burn; 40 units of cargo per run nets 300 credits per run before travel expenses at a profit of merely 7.5 credits per unit of cargo.

I also don't see mention of the humble Shepard, here. Although I haven't done the math I suspect it's the best frigate for dry goods, and many prefer it in combat when compared to the Hound and Cerberus.
The Shepherd and the Cerberus are tied in fuel economy; both of them can move 100 units of cargo one lightyear on one unit of fuel. The Shepherd, however, loses out in utility as a freighter because it is slower and because even though saving 25% on monthly maintenance costs relative to a Cerberus sounds great, it's still a savings of only 1 supply per month per Shepherd used in place of a Cerberus, and unless supply costs are quite high you don't need the average profit per run to be all that high before the higher speed of the Cerberus is worth more than the reduced maintenance cost of the Shepherd.

150 cargo*fuel/ly is the mode fuel efficiency of warship classes. If you exclude Ventures, Gemini, Condors, and Buffalo IIs, it's also pretty close to being the arithmetic mean of the fuel efficiencies of the various warship classes, while if you include Ventures, Gemini, and Condors the mean goes to about 56.4 (all three of these ships have efficiencies above the mean, with the Gemini and especially Venture considerably above the mean). There is quite a bit of variation in actual values, though, and the smaller warships in particular tend to be below the average. I did nothing to account for availability; extremely rare vessels like the Hyperion are weighted as heavily in the average as very common vessels like the Enforcer.
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speeder

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 05:28:45 AM »

I also don't see mention of the humble Shepard, here. Although I haven't done the math I suspect it's the best frigate for dry goods, and many prefer it in combat when compared to the Hound and Cerberus.

Didn't even noticed that ship before... since it is a mining ship, and the game has no mining yet.

Added it to my spreadsheet...

Stats:

Only 18 LY of range, the worst range of all ships in my list.
It costs 4.08 credits to ship a unit of cargo... it is about the same as the "combat freighers"
40.56 credits per passenger to ship passengers, just terrible, half the efficiency of the "shuttles", only the pure freighters (like Atlas) are worse.
31.20 credits per unit of fuel shipped, it is the worst ship in costs to ship fuel, and almost double the price of shipping fuel with the shuttles (that are all tied as the second worst, all shuttles cost 16.83 to ship fuel).



Also by the way, speed is taken in account on my spreadsheet, I calculate the supplies cost of the trip based on the time the trip takes, thus slower ships get more supplies cost.
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Megas

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2015, 05:53:38 AM »

Starliner looks great, until you see how many supplies it eats.  15 is much more than other ships.  I prefer Buffalo, if all I care is cargo capacity.  3 supplies per month is much less than 15.  (3 supplies for 300 capacity instead of 15 for 450 or so capacity.)

25 ship limit is a big deal at the endgame.

Currently, I have more than one Atlas in my fleet when I hunt for detachments because I need the capacity (for the piles of loot dropped by enemy fleets), and low burn is not a problem when the enemy beelines for my overpowered fleet (Paragon can handle anything thrown at it).

Re: Shepherd and Cerberus
I would take Cerberus over Shepherd any day as a freighter.  Cerberus can use Safety Override and outrun everything (except possibly Hyperion).

The only reason to use civilian is their low credit cost, and possibly deployment cost.  I occasionally use Hermes as a pursuit ship due to low deployment cost.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 06:24:13 AM by Megas »
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Sabaton

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2015, 02:32:26 PM »

Recently I was wondering if the frigate departament doesn't need a Buffalo of its own.

No false "combat capable" freighters like the Cerberus and Hound (really, those things are only good at fighting themselves and shieldless fighters, oh and running away given the proper hull mods) coupled with a   meh cargo capacity vs supply cost that makes you wonder why aren't you using a Bufallo.

Neither a Shepard that looks like it can't decide what it wants to be, a drone carrier or a glorified hauler?

Just a cargo hold with engines and a maintenance to reflect its complexity.

Also I assume stuff will be reballanced down the line.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 02:34:34 PM by Sabaton »
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Megas

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2015, 04:00:35 PM »

Recently I was wondering if the frigate departament doesn't need a Buffalo of its own.

No false "combat capable" freighters like the Cerberus and Hound (really, those things are only good at fighting themselves and shieldless fighters, oh and running away given the proper hull mods) coupled with a   meh cargo capacity vs supply cost that makes you wonder why aren't you using a Bufallo.
Player should use Hound and Cerberus if he wants a haulers with burn 11 (assuming Augmented Engines on everything).  I have used burn 11 hauler fleets a few times.  I would use Tempest-only fleets for burn 12 if they were more common.

Hermes and Shepherd were good when Logistics was the thing.  Now that player is limited to 25 ships, and the old civilian frigate-sized haulers top at burn 10, they are generally awful.  At least Hermes has low cost, but Shepherd is too expensive.  Now, Shepherd is only good if you want to distract enemies with drones.

Cerberus and Hound can be made into viable combatants with max OP and Front Shield Generator.  Then again, by the time player gets to level 40, he can probably afford better ships.

Buffalos are generally the best pure dedicated freighters for most fleets, assuming you never flee.  (If you need to flee, stick with Hound and Cerberus.)  Players who want to chain-battle deep in enemy territory will need at least one Atlas to haul loot.
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Sabaton

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 02:18:55 AM »

I'm aware of these things:

-Hound and Cerberus are initially only good at running away, and by the time you got what it takes to turn them into semi-capable combat freighters you WILL have MUCH better options available.

Plus by then players will have proper combat ships so what little combat capability Hounds and Cerberi provide will be useless. Even more so if a wipe out occurs and the combat escort is destroyed by a superior force.

-Shuttles and Shepherd are bad, I suspect a rebalance down the line. Provided players are actually supposed to use them.

-Thats why I said the frigate department should get it's own Buffalo. To benefit small, frigate only fleets that don't have to run away and don't go deep into enemy territory.

One of my favorite gigs is to hang around a system in hyperspace when there's a general bounty and spam the Sensor Burst to attract prey.

Potentially run for the worm hole in case something scary and persistent comes up (or too many consecutive fights occur) but apart from not much running away happens.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 02:30:16 AM by Sabaton »
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Aeson

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 11:31:52 PM »

Quote
-Thats why I said the frigate department should get it's own Buffalo. To benefit small, frigate only fleets that don't have to run away and don't go deep into enemy territory.
Cerberi, and to a lesser extent Hounds and Shepherds, are already frigate-scale Buffaloes. They have significantly more cargo capacity than other frigates, and in the case of the Hound and Cerberus this also comes with notably more fuel capacity than most military-grade frigates and no burn penalty relative to military-grade frigates other than the Tempest.
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Bastion.Systems

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 05:36:59 AM »

Gemini is an excellent ship because it's the lowest supply cost carrier, has good mounts + it's also a decent cargo hauler, did not know the Starliner was so good at everything, I assumed it was a specialty ship like the other people transport ships.
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speeder

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 07:01:07 AM »

did not know the Starliner was so good at everything, I assumed it was a specialty ship like the other people transport ships.

Me neither! Thus I ended putting some !!! every time I noticed that
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ChaseBears

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 06:45:21 PM »

cerberus can fight pretty well... as long as its only fighting one target.  it'll wear its armor out and then be useless bait after defeating one ship

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sycspysycspy

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Re: The best shipping ships
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2015, 10:52:56 PM »

Shepherd can fight pretty well... vs AIs of course as those annoying drones are just awesome.
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