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[speeder]

Alex I saw you mentioning in other threads that you think the economy takes too long to reach its long tail.

While making my economy mod, I noticed 3 important factors in this:

1) current economy update speed is rather slow (in my mod I set it to 1 day, and saw no significant performance degradation)

2) the "rolling" average factor is too low, at 10% it means that if a market could not buy anything and started with an stock of "100.000" would take 110 updates to get to zero, as you can imagine 110 updates with 30 days to update is a LOOOOOONG time.

3) Production has some circular dependencies, that although usually is fine, combined with the last 2 facts make it a serious problem.

Example: The Autofactory makes machines from metal and rare metal, volatiles and organics, many producers of those take machines as input, for example volatiles explicitly produce slower if it don't meet its machine demand, so to step up production to maximum the autofactory need all those materials, then the material makers need the little extra machine made, to output a little extra materials, to output a little extra machine, and so on...

I need more testing, but to stabilize those "loops" it is seemly needed about 90 updates, thus on vanilla about 90*30 days (this mean 3.75 hours in real world time).

[Weltall]

I have yet to understand what people mean stable market. From a players point of view that does not understand all the technical details, all I see is a harder to cope with market in the beginning, making the start of my game harder and slowly as time progresses and I trade prices slowly have a lower min price and a higher max price. I personally though that happens to not let the player start by getting as many freighters as possible and start making huge profit, ending up with a really easy game.

Again I do not understand all the technical background actions that the game is taking.

[RyMarq]

Its important to remember that it is the inefficiencies in the system that allow players to make money, especially without using the black market.


I was going to do a full writeup on how the system lacks sufficient feedback loops, and I will probably do it still at some point. Honestly, the fact that I am frustratingly terrible at code is limiting my work here(I am terrible enough that it takes me forever to even realize I am looking in the wrong place). If I could just understand it as a series of behaviors it would be so much easier.

The core issue of the economy seems to be how feedback works. It isn't calibrated with feedback that feels real.

The best way to deal with it is probably to rely upon *large* fleet transfers of goods and create very real major stockpiles, and accommodate the economy for expecting those stockpiles.

Monthly major shipments, maintaining a two-month stockpile would likely be best. Significant price and output corrections beginning at having less than the 1-month available stockpile.
I can figure out what equations and relationships are best for this setup, but it will help to understand the current base behavior.

[TrashMan]

I have yet to understand what people mean stable market. From a players point of view that does not understand all the technical details, all I see is a harder to cope with market in the beginning, making the start of my game harder and slowly as time progresses and I trade prices slowly have a lower min price and a higher max price. I personally though that happens to not let the player start by getting as many freighters as possible and start making huge profit, ending up with a really easy game.

Again I do not understand all the technical background actions that the game is taking.

Eh? Due to high tarrifs and low rices per items, I find making a decent profit is hard - especially since buying and selling price (without factoring in tarifs!) can be so vastly different

For example, I buy Heavy Machinery from system 1 that has a surplus and prices have dropped. Let's say I buy them for 1500 a piece, plus 10% tarrifs (1650)
Then I go to system B only to find out that I can sell them for 1700 (-10% tarrifs means 1530$) which puts me in the negative (but I can buy them for 2000 or more)

[Weltall]

For example, I buy Heavy Machinery from system 1 that has a surplus and prices have dropped. Let's say I buy them for 1500 a piece, plus 10% tarrifs (1650)
Then I go to system B only to find out that I can sell them for 1700 (-10% tarrifs means 1530$) which puts me in the negative (but I can buy them for 2000 or more)

Is this how Heavy Machinery prices should be? Heavy Machinery is one of the best cargo to trade for me, because if I am lucky I can find them for as low as 30-40 starting price and sell them as high as 800-900. Although since you say 10% tariffs I am guessing you are talking about Ironclads, since the normal tariffs are 30%. In Ironclads, for me at least, the only product I need Is Rock "Juice". Buying it from FFS and selling it to others..

But the OP is talking about the vanilla game for sure.

[speeder]

Heavy machinery prices should be 150 if I remember correctly (the base price is on commodities.csv file).

If you are seeing prices around 900, something is broken (and vanilla can be broken... as I noted in the OP).

[Weltall]

If you are seeing prices around 900, something is broken (and vanilla can be broken... as I noted in the OP).

That I know. Alex did ask me my save file when I told him that the lowest price of supplies I found was 7 (if not less) and the highest would go over 700. I am guessing these problems will be fixed on 0.7.2a. I might be wrong but I think that was the really low price in 0.65 and the highest was 900+. Then again I remember 0.65 modded, so I am not sure if SS+ and Nexerelin or the factions ended up messing up the prices.