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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2 (04/30/22)

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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)  (Read 930530 times)

OperaWolf

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1620 on: January 12, 2022, 08:31:27 AM »

I echo you on the ships; I think they feel really good to play. Only outliers I personally encountered are:

1. The frigates, which are honestly fine, they just seem to blow up on me a lot so I trend towards tougher frigates (Brawler et al). Just personal.
2. The Daze, which has two major problems as I see it: A) it's a huge target and doesn't do anything to counter/utilize it. It isn't super tanky to eat those hits, and it isn't super offensive to make taking those hits worth it. B) It doesn't really fill a role. It's kind of just...a ship. Especially with Cruisers, competition for a slot is fierce and in all cases I'd take a Haze instead since it has pretty much the same loadout, a thinner profile, and a flicker drive. Updating its system sounds like a solid idea, and another option that might be interesting for it would be to utilize it's small slots more heavily for fleet PD duty. Maybe set it with Integrated PD AI? The player could either up-gun it with damaging smalls and be aggressive, possibly utilizing an updated system to take advantage, or just keep them as PD turrets that simply work better than average and keep it in the fleet line to protect against missile/fight spam.
3. The Pocket Gust, which is kind of...weird, I guess? Nothing against the ship, it just always seemed like an oddity in the fleet for some reason. Maybe just me. It's a tiny Gust! Kind of cute.

For weapons, if the Banish was 2-shots in small slot I'd definitely use it there more often. It's a good opener and a strong missile type for ships that already have armor damage covered. I also really enjoy the launch/track/ignite system they use. It's really fun in-game.

With Wanzers, I...honestly don't know what to use half the time. I kind of pick what seems good and just assume they're doing good things. It's hard for me to parse what they're doing/capable of doing like I can with ships just by stats, and some of the Wanzer descriptions are a little confusing for me. The lore on them is awesome, but I have a hard time figuring out what they're meant for sometimes, and I have zero idea what most of their systems are or do since it's just a quote. I usually just go by the tag - "Bodyguard means it kills fighters I guess?", etc. Vanilla fighters are easier on me; I know what a Talon, Broadsword, and Khopesh all do from their loadouts and especially their descriptions and can make easier decisions, but I -like- using Wanzers so I take those instead, even if I don't really know what's going on. I guess for me, mostly I'd just like a clearer picture for what each Wanzer is intended for and what it does. As a player I'm relying on the tooltip to understand your intent with the item, so preferably they should be as clear and transparent as possible (not saying they shouldn't have cool lore in them though).
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1621 on: January 12, 2022, 08:56:40 AM »

Are stratus fractus and Rimes models considered Logistics ships?
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1622 on: January 12, 2022, 09:45:14 AM »

Are stratus fractus and Rimes models considered Logistics ships?

They are indeed tagged CIVILIAN in the files, so they do (or should) get the buff from the Bulk Transport skill.

Note that the normal Rime and pirate Rime remain warships, even though with the P-Rime the line gets blurry.

edit: also, you mean the Chinook. The Fractus is a combat carrier, remember.
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1623 on: January 12, 2022, 11:32:12 AM »

Are stratus fractus and Rimes models considered Logistics ships?

They are indeed tagged CIVILIAN in the files, so they do (or should) get the buff from the Bulk Transport skill.

Note that the normal Rime and pirate Rime remain warships, even though with the P-Rime the line gets blurry.

edit: also, you mean the Chinook. The Fractus is a combat carrier, remember.

Yes, I will then add the Chinook and the fractus in my question.

Maybe if the Daze had the Diable avionic special line ship mod, the Dampened Mount, it would be a 25 extra OP that push the ship into the long range pressure cruiser
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 01:08:14 PM by Kanjejou »
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1624 on: January 13, 2022, 04:44:33 AM »

2. The Daze, which has two major problems as I see it: A) it's a huge target and doesn't do anything to counter/utilize it. It isn't super tanky to eat those hits, and it isn't super offensive to make taking those hits worth it. B) It doesn't really fill a role. It's kind of just...a ship. Especially with Cruisers, competition for a slot is fierce and in all cases I'd take a Haze instead since it has pretty much the same loadout, a thinner profile, and a flicker drive. Updating its system sounds like a solid idea, and another option that might be interesting for it would be to utilize it's small slots more heavily for fleet PD duty. Maybe set it with Integrated PD AI? The player could either up-gun it with damaging smalls and be aggressive, possibly utilizing an updated system to take advantage, or just keep them as PD turrets that simply work better than average and keep it in the fleet line to protect against missile/fight spam.

i'm not sure what you mean by it not being tanky enough to eat those hits, used the daze with 2 hvel and 2 maulers and it was the fleet anchor when i used it, while the rest of my fleet was popping one by one my daze was sitting there with its shields still up popping the opposing one by one, it was like a blockhead that kept dealing damage.
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OperaWolf

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1625 on: January 13, 2022, 02:22:13 PM »

i'm not sure what you mean by it not being tanky enough to eat those hits, used the daze with 2 hvel and 2 maulers and it was the fleet anchor when i used it, while the rest of my fleet was popping one by one my daze was sitting there with its shields still up popping the opposing one by one, it was like a blockhead that kept dealing damage.

Oh, sorry. I meant it's a very large target, which is a disadvantage, but it isn't specifically built to be a bulwark to turn it into a positive. It's not that it's a bad ship, it just doesn't have a clearly defined role, and I don't think I said that very well. That's my bad.
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Grizzlyadamz

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1626 on: January 16, 2022, 12:41:17 PM »

Oh oops, that's a vanilla thing, I have other places to look.
Spoilering to hide shame.
Spoiler
So, the Shear's Drive Field Stabilizer says it's cumulative with other DFS's...does that mean a 25-Shear fleet could cruise around at burn-45?
44 if you swap one out for a Dram?
Asking for a friend.
[close]
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 12:46:21 PM by Grizzlyadamz »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1627 on: January 16, 2022, 03:39:39 PM »

Cumulative up to the Shear's burn level.
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Maethendias

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1628 on: January 17, 2022, 07:57:40 AM »

Since there has been a lot of talk about Diable's balance in the last few week, here are my personal thoughts:

Concerning the combat ships, I think almost all of them are in a good place except the Storm (that still has a split personality) and to some lesser extend the Daze (that is quite boring all things considered). I'm still considering my options for the former, but the later might simply get a new more impactful system, either firepower+armor-related or missile-related.

Concerning the weapons, same thing. Maybe the small Banish will become 2-shots like Vanilla, maybe there will be minor tweaks to the Hexafire, but overall I feel confident they all have a niche they are good at without being "the best ever".

Concerning the Wanzers, now this is where I feel more work is needed. The Strife is still far and away the most useful wing of them all, while some of the bigger models overlap too much to have distinct personalities. Too many of them are really good against frigates while only one is worthwhile against large ships. At the same time, it may only require a couple of simple changes to vastly improve the situation, like a clear anti-shield Wanzer, and moving the Thunderbolt launcher from the Strife to another model.

Concerning the logistic ships, those are relics at this point. I do plan to put some work into them at some point but I've been caught working on so many flashier things I never had the courage to deal with this more tedious task.

one thing i dont like is the assume direct control system, its really clunky imo, takes you completly out of the fold, and leaves your ship pretty much stranded... and its usually on ships that dont just "sit in the back doing nothing", but line ships that you REALLY dont want to leave open

versant, everything shrike and wolf want to be, but better

ah, the calm, tries to be an escort, is more of a flanker

derecho is amazing late game

fracus is a... herron replacement, if you are into that

hayle is a missile spammer, and it does it fairly well

pocket gust, like its bigger brother, GREAT line ship


the daze is weird, yes i agree... i tried to make it work, but it doesnt really work, its not tanky enough to BE tanky, and it doesnt have enough flux vent to be deadly... maybe changing the system around?

love the gust as a line ship, if only it didnt have the assume control system

id rather have a gust than a haze... never seemed efficient enough to me to switch it out for something else

storm is a nice escort ship

maelstrom is a bigger, better capitalsized gust, so its just pretty much the best ship in this mod, ESPECIALLY deadly when massed, thanks to its ordinance

and i already told you how much i like the pandemonium, oddly that people claim it to be too logistic inefficient, when thats the whole point of the ship... i mean IT LITERALLY TELLS YOU THAT VERY THING IN THE TOOLTIP LMFAO... and by the time you field dreadnaughts, logistics arent an issue anyways


overall well balanced, with a few hiccups

ironically tho, the thing i like the least in this mod are the wanzers (versant doesnt count), they just dont click with me, and ironically imo dont really fit the faction at all...

you have this modus operandi about overwhelming the enemy with a massive amount of just junk missiles, and then you have all of their fighters be super elite blocks that do their thing, id always rather use broadsword swarms or remnant fighter spam, cause both really synergize well with the whole missile spam way more than just "1 dude in power armor", idk, if you are already building for volume of fire, go full hog, you know what i mean?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 08:03:15 AM by Maethendias »
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OperaWolf

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1629 on: January 19, 2022, 04:46:21 PM »

ironically tho, the thing i like the least in this mod are the wanzers (versant doesnt count), they just dont click with me, and ironically imo dont really fit the faction at all

As a counter, I love the Wanzers. They and the look of the ships immediately drew me to this mod over others. Getting to play out old Gundam/Macross fantasies because of DA (and Arma Armatura) is a lot of fun and something you can't really get anywhere else.
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Pep

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1630 on: January 19, 2022, 04:54:19 PM »

Kinda funny that one of the core aspects of the mod is something u have a problem/find out of place with lol
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Maethendias

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1631 on: January 20, 2022, 12:52:58 PM »

Kinda funny that one of the core aspects of the mod is something u have a problem/find out of place with lol

is it? i already stated why
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Oni

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1632 on: January 20, 2022, 04:29:07 PM »

Here's an interesting curiosity I've run into:

Diable posts a System Bounty due to Pirate activity... said bounty doesn't pay you for the the Pirates roaming the system, as Diable isn't hostile to them. In fact, if you fight them near a Diable space station you might end up fighting both.  :o
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amimai

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1633 on: January 22, 2022, 07:41:10 AM »

Here's an interesting curiosity I've run into:

Diable posts a System Bounty due to Pirate activity... said bounty doesn't pay you for the the Pirates roaming the system, as Diable isn't hostile to them. In fact, if you fight them near a Diable space station you might end up fighting both.  :o
pirate bounties are more "whoever is our enemy" bounties usually my Diable is at war with Hegemony, so its a good late game bounty to say the least
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Eventails

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Re: [0.95.1a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1634 on: January 27, 2022, 02:57:20 AM »

Will there be any update for any of the skin mods since there's a new ship? (virtuous)
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