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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Diable Avionics 2.70rc3 (2023/04/13)  (Read 1285127 times)

Killsode

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1590 on: December 23, 2021, 11:28:47 PM »

think you're talking about the Virtuous, the versant is the neat transforming frigate
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1591 on: December 31, 2021, 10:08:56 AM »

Trying to Find non freighter non pirate Rime, any idea where to look for them?
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1592 on: December 31, 2021, 12:57:17 PM »

Diable military markets will have them fairly regularly, and open or black markets significantly more rarely.
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1593 on: December 31, 2021, 07:29:04 PM »

I guess the Pandemonium is supposed to be some kind of oversized Legion, a mix of an Astral and Parangon?

So I have a few question about it:

-Dampened mount work on every slot and weapons? balistic energy missiles, small medium and large?
-was it balanced around the mod weapon or vanilla gun were taken into account?
-was the point of the ship to be some kind of all rounder or more as a very modular ship that can be played as a Super Heavy Battleship(boosted Onslaught/Parangon) or a Super battleCarrier(Super Legion/Astral)
-How long is the Pademonium? In ingame units.


My little complain about the ship:
-Its Large weapon slot have a very limited gun arc and so much in the back they struggle to reach the same target as the small one in the front, I have a hard time knowing which of those two problem annoy me the most...
-Its system is super insteresting but doesn't seem to help nor its battleship nor carrier play style because it seem to help against being flanked and next stuff make it quite weak
-Super unimpresiv shield... Small arc high flux exchange high flux maintenance and fixed arc
-Mostly frontaly loaded thus cannot exploit it form nor armor as much as other capitals for extra damage dealing or tanking so its lower overall armor does hurt him a bit.
-no extra micro missiles compared to the Maelstorm.



I enjoyed pretty much every ship of this mod except capitals, Maerlstrom and Pandemonium are pretty much sufering from the same design flaws(which is normal they are build upon the same design)Pandemonium having even more accute ones, they look like braodside ship but they cannot broadside, they have a lot of unusable gun arc except if they get surrounded which they must avoid at all cost.

The last ship that I found was lack luster is the "Draft", it wasnt very good before last few update but now it suffer even more vs ship with shields and balistic integration...Maybe if its missiles slot were already filled with micro missiles (can only used guides missiles since they are broadside) then having less OP and stats than a Lasher or Wolf would not be so bad. Even Vapor and Versant seem to be way superior to it. Or make its system more powerfull. dont repair ahlf HP lost but always 33% of its value... also maybe give it un reductible armor so it doesn't get instantly destroyed by a harpon/breacher salvo)
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phampanvn1998

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1594 on: January 01, 2022, 09:08:02 PM »

Draft with safety override is amazing tho. Easily pull it's weight in dp cost. It's skill useless tho, because as soon as the armor is down, the draft is pretty much dead, no chance to heal whatsoever. It's performance, however, easily allow me to overlook it's weakness.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1595 on: January 02, 2022, 12:21:09 AM »

-Dampened mount work on every slot and weapons? balistic energy missiles, small medium and large?
Everything but beams and missiles.
Quote
-was the point of the ship to be some kind of all rounder or more as a very modular ship that can be played as a Super Heavy Battleship(boosted Onslaught/Parangon) or a Super battleCarrier(Super Legion/Astral)
Until you built-in several hullmods, it lacks the OP to be a true all rounder.
Quote
-How long is the Pademonium? In ingame units.
1 game unit = 1pixel at 100% zoom = 1 sprite pixel.

Quote
-Its Large weapon slot have a very limited gun arc and so much in the back they struggle to reach the same target as the small one in the front, I have a hard time knowing which of those two problem annoy me the most...
Small weapon arcs is a strength: it prevents the ship from presenting its wide side to the enemy and catch every hit from the whole fleet. If your large mounts can't hit the same target as the front smalls you are using impressively long ranged small weapons and woefully short ranged larges.
Quote
-Its system is super insteresting but doesn't seem to help nor its battleship nor carrier play style because it seem to help against being flanked and next stuff make it quite weak
-Super unimpresiv shield... Small arc high flux exchange high flux maintenance and fixed arc
Maybe you didn't noticed just how much flux you can instantly remove using the system, particularly by toggling off the shield when using it.
Quote
-Mostly frontaly loaded thus cannot exploit it form nor armor as much as other capitals for extra damage dealing or tanking so its lower overall armor does hurt him a bit.
It has an armor rating just between the Conquest and the Paragon. And a smaller silhouette.
Quote
-no extra micro missiles compared to the Maelstorm.
What? Are you saying it doesn't have built-in micro-missiles (it very much has), or you mean it cannot mount more small slot MM launchers (it can mount 6 Thrushes in the universal slots, which are unlimited MM carriers missile and a straight upgrade)

Quote
I enjoyed pretty much every ship of this mod except capitals, Maerlstrom and Pandemonium are pretty much sufering from the same design flaws(which is normal they are build upon the same design)Pandemonium having even more accute ones, they look like braodside ship but they cannot broadside, they have a lot of unusable gun arc except if they get surrounded which they must avoid at all cost.
The Maelstrom under AI control will win 1v1 against all vanilla capitals except the Paragon. The Pandemonium even more so. But if you are trying to shoehorn these ships into roles they are unsuited for, such as brawlers, then you will have a bad time indeed. Diable shines once you have superior numbers. It doesn't need to be heavier ships, just "more is better".

Quote
The last ship that I found was lack luster is the "Draft", it wasnt very good before last few update but now it suffer even more vs ship with shields and balistic integration...Maybe if its missiles slot were already filled with micro missiles (can only used guides missiles since they are broadside) then having less OP and stats than a Lasher or Wolf would not be so bad. Even Vapor and Versant seem to be way superior to it. Or make its system more powerfull. dont repair ahlf HP lost but always 33% of its value... also maybe give it un reductible armor so it doesn't get instantly destroyed by a harpon/breacher salvo)
The good old Draft, the sleeper among the frigates. Granted it is only good early on, but it is great then. A frigate that can ignore sabots, never overload, free damage repairs, and can kite other frigates and destroyer until more dangerous ships can take care of them. Nifty cheap distraction they are.
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1596 on: January 02, 2022, 06:29:54 AM »

Yeah i didnt saw that the micro flux core cleaned some flux out... will try ot be more carefull of it.

I put 800-1000 unit range gun in the  large slot and cheap diable(500-650range) on in the front one and on both ship often the large gun still don't shot.

It does have micro missiles but for a ship that is so much costlier i expected to have more micro missiles build in.

Draft is nice early on but It cannot  kept up to other frigate after early game when you can streamline your ship more. And they are way more medium and large missiles slot in ennemies fleets
« Last Edit: January 02, 2022, 10:38:40 AM by Kanjejou »
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1597 on: January 03, 2022, 07:03:47 AM »

Diable's logistical ships need a numbers rework, in light of vanilla changes.

The Chinook is destroyer sized, has 400 fuel capacity and 9 burn with no civilian hull. It eats 1.75 fuel/ly and 6 supplies/month. The Phaeton is destroyer sized, has 800 fuel capacity and 8 burn with civilian hull, 9 burn with Militarized Subsystems. It eats 2 fuel/ly and 4 supplies/month. The Chinook has half the fuel capacity of the Phaeton and eats half again as many supplies; if you want as much fuel capacity as a Phaeton, you need to have 2 Chinooks for 3.5 fuel/ly and 12 supplies/month. That's a lot to pay for an additional logistics slot. Despite not having civilian hull, the Chinook is helpless in combat, so it's best compared directly with civilian tankers. I'd increase it to at least 600 fuel, probably 700. It can theoretically hit 11 burn with Augmented Drive Field, but so can the Phaeton and the Phaeton with MS and ADF is still a more efficient fueler than a Chinook with Auxiliary Fuel Tanks and ADF. (800 fuel, 2 f/ly, 4 s/m compared to 520 fuel, 1.75 f/ly, 6 s/m)

The Stratus is best compared to the Mule. They have comparable stat lines, both being militarized freighters having 250 cargo, 2 fuel/ly, and nearly the same maintenance and DP cost (7 for the Mule, 5 for the Stratus), but the Mule is combat-capable and the Stratus is very much not. The Mule has more than twice the base armor, much better mounts, and has a pirate version with shielded cargo holds. If you'd rather compare it to the Buffalo, well, the Buffalo has 400 cargo capacity and again has a pirate version with shielded cargo holds. Given Diable's stance towards the governments of the rest of the sector, I think the Stratus should have shielded cargo holds. A little more cargo capacity or supply/fuel efficiency would be nice, given that it isn't combat capable, but Diable offering a reliable source of shielded cargo holds would make the Stratus much more competitive.

Finally, the Cirrus having a fighter bay ironically makes it worse than the Valkyrie as it now reduces the performance of the skill that boosts actual combat carriers. It's not going to mount a Wanzer, so it might as well just have Arbitrators built-in. This would both allow it to use the Converted Fighter Bay hullmod, allowing players to use it as a logistical ship without hurting their carrier capabilities, and make it more viable as an early game hybrid logistical carrier option, as you don't have to buy a fighter wing to put in it.
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1598 on: January 03, 2022, 08:55:39 AM »

Diable's logistical ships need a numbers rework, in light of vanilla changes.

The Chinook...

The Chinook is a combat tanker it can fight back compared to a Phateon It have better combats stats (Hull, armor, speed, Flux and Vent), Its gun arc and system allow to support the front line and fight other small ships, It is closer to a cheapper Mule, 6 OP instead of 7 but made for Fuel. For me the ship is okay but suffer of a smaller OP pool than most 6OP destroyer, a Buffalo mk2 has 70 and cost 4 OP. 40 OP is a bit too shoprt for a semi fighting ship...( lets say we put 2 LAC and one LAG one vulcan in the back , that already 17OP half of the ship OP pool, you will have a hard time maxing its vent/capcitors or put any hullmod on it!

The Stratus...

Once again if we compare it to the Mule its smaller and cost less OP 5 against 7. Its size+system+gun placement mean it can hold the line with the boys while spamming flares. Once again for me its problem is OP pool for a combat freighter. 40 is very small for a ship that will need guns and capacitor and vents... with so little except if you build in mods it won't survive above the early game...on the other side very few cargo ship come without the civilian hullmod and not at this price range.

Finally, the Cirrus ...

For the Cyrus its problem is it ridiculously small OP pool the rest of the ship seing its size, shield and gun placement that is easier to exploit than the Valkirie(almost fully pointed forward on a very long ship), but I understand why its this way , Its a Condor and Valkirie in one ship for 6 OP hard to get this kind of stuff any cheaper. its very cheap battle carrier for ground support and raids. Hard to find reason to ever make it better if its DP price doestn go up to 10 Supply or more.


Conclusion, I would not change the Cyrus or he would make stuff like Condor pointless. As I said it is a ship that fill multiple role in the fleet, if he was anyn stonger it would invalidate both the Valkirie and the Condor, no possible change here except if the ship get costlier to use...

But the Stratus and Chinook a pure shooty boat, personally 50-55 OP would be a bit better of a deal. They have good stats , form and gun arcs but they cant exploit them because they are so OP starved, but they should not end up superior to a Mule or Mule (P) that are costlier to use.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 08:59:15 AM by Kanjejou »
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1599 on: January 03, 2022, 12:50:09 PM »

The Chinook is a combat tanker it can fight back compared to a Phateon It have better combats stats (Hull, armor, speed, Flux and Vent), Its gun arc and system allow to support the front line and fight other small ships, It is closer to a cheapper Mule, 6 OP instead of 7 but made for Fuel. For me the ship is okay but suffer of a smaller OP pool than most 6OP destroyer, a Buffalo mk2 has 70 and cost 4 OP. 40 OP is a bit too shoprt for a semi fighting ship...( lets say we put 2 LAC and one LAG one vulcan in the back , that already 17OP half of the ship OP pool, you will have a hard time maxing its vent/capcitors or put any hullmod on it!
The Mule is genuinely strong ship. It has 650 armor, 5500 hull, 1.0 shield and 3000 flux capacity, 60 speed and Maneuvering Jets, and a medium composite turret on top of the small ballistics and missiles. It is leagues above the Chinook, which in-combat is basically a slightly more durable Phaeton. 400 armor, 3000 hull, a 1.1 shield with 2750 flux capacity, 50 speed with no mobility system, and worse armament than a frigate does not a combat ship make. It is genuinely an awful idea to deploy the Chinook as a support ship just because it has Active Flares.

Once again if we compare it to the Mule its smaller and cost less OP 5 against 7. Its size+system+gun placement mean it can hold the line with the boys while spamming flares. Once again for me its problem is OP pool for a combat freighter. 40 is very small for a ship that will need guns and capacitor and vents... with so little except if you build in mods it won't survive above the early game...on the other side very few cargo ship come without the civilian hullmod and not at this price range.
The Stratus's stats are even worse than the Chinook's. Less armor, less flux, fewer slots, slightly higher hull and speed. It's just not a combat ship. I don't know why you think it is. It can't stand up to any combat frigate that isn't d-modded pirate trash.

For the Cyrus its problem is it ridiculously small OP pool the rest of the ship seing its size, shield and gun placement that is easier to exploit than the Valkirie(almost fully pointed forward on a very long ship), but I understand why its this way , Its a Condor and Valkirie in one ship for 6 OP hard to get this kind of stuff any cheaper. its very cheap battle carrier for ground support and raids. Hard to find reason to ever make it better if its DP price doestn go up to 10 Supply or more.

Conclusion, I would not change the Cyrus or he would make stuff like Condor pointless. As I said it is a ship that fill multiple role in the fleet, if he was anyn stonger it would invalidate both the Valkirie and the Condor, no possible change here except if the ship get costlier to use...
The Cirrus can point a whole two small hybrid slots forward. It does only have 3 small weapon slots, so I suppose saying that it can almost fully point its whole armament forward is technically correct, but I think that's a bit misleading. The Condor is the most efficient fighter bay per DP carrier in the vanilla game, at 1 bay per 5 OP, and brings a medium missile with fast missile racks on top of that. The Cirrus has 1 fighter bay for 6 DP, efficient but not amazing considering the ship system is Active Flares, has a forward armament of 2 small hybrid slots, and is generally not good.

But the Stratus and Chinook a pure shooty boat, personally 50-55 OP would be a bit better of a deal. They have good stats , form and gun arcs but they cant exploit them because they are so OP starved, but they should not end up superior to a Mule or Mule (P) that are costlier to use.
As you have said, the Stratus and Chinook are OP starved. They're also undergunned, underarmored, underfluxed, and not good combat ships. The Mule is a solid combatant with heavy armor, high missile strike potential, and plenty of OP. It is in no danger of being worse than any of Diable's logistical ships.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 02:31:22 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1600 on: January 03, 2022, 05:26:16 PM »

The Mule is indeed a decent ship but comparing it purely on stats and gun against ship that are cheaper sustain and bring other stuff(don't under estimate flare spam against Harpoon and as a way to overload ennemies PD) is dangerous...also Mule lose against most frigate(lasher/worlf) if not kited to fight them specificaly (swarm srm or sabots) since he is anemic for a 7dp destroyer

Chinook may be weaker but it can hold and fight back (it gain Fleet wide bonuses since its not a civilian ship), maybe not win but at least isnt an absolute dead weight as a Phaeton, no ship should stricktly be better than another in the same job or it will have no purpose in game. Its mostly to have a tanker that dont instantly die early on and dont expand your fleet signature too much for later?
The stratus is cheaper and harder to hit than the Mule and like him doesn't have civilian hull so no massiv fleet signature like other freighter and 3 small gun in the front is maybe not destroyer level of firepower but its enough to deter most frigate  in a fleet vs fleet situation. Also using diable guns that usually have very good flux ratio but high flux per second allow the Stratus to punish quite hard with 2 Grave LAC and 1 Astralrevolver. Maybe one extra small slot woudl help but it woudl give him a firepower too close to combat frigates.

Being "light" in gun slot isnt too much of a problem, every ship isnt supposed to be able to fend for itself alone. But maybe put a few micro missiles launcher?? but for me mostly 10-15 extra OP
would be enough, woudl allow to get shield/vent/flux improvement and more modularity.

Cirus is a battle carrier with ground support your not supposed to bring more than one maybe two of them in your fleet, they are like valkirie with converted hangar but not the maluses  that can be used in battle for 1DP more that a sweet deal. They arent the best carrier per DP because it would make Condor pointless and its not the cheapest Ground support package around or Valkirie would be pointless.

Also since they arent civi hulls the fuel/cargo/crew upgrade dont increse their profile or cost!
That the whole crux of Diable avionic all they ship aren't specialised so they often dont look good if you try to min-max your fleet

Also Diable Guns go a long way into makign their ship work a bit better..., except the P variant that seem to have been made to use common guns instead.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 05:41:19 PM by Kanjejou »
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Noobishnoob

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1601 on: January 06, 2022, 01:44:50 AM »

Any way to know what the diable station has for segments?
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1602 on: January 07, 2022, 08:58:24 AM »

Any way to know what the diable station has for segments?

Unfortunately i dont know...

On a side note THe gust and the Storm are a bit too similar:

Both are battle carrier
Both are in the 2x supply cost range
Both have Medium and small slot mostly
The bigger slot are in the back.

Moslty their geometrie and system change and the one with 2 fighter bay get wepaon module and the one wiht only 1 get fighter buff module...? why?

Storm is supposed to be the brawler?/braoside? carrier more slots more armor ect... but he doesn't gain any extra OP so its just a slower bigger easier to overload

Gust with its central Large slot smaller profile and better speed look mor elike a striker, doesnt suffer that much from Overfluxing on its own

Price and OP increase could make it more insteresting to take Storm(something like 170 OP for 30 DP) over Gust in most situations.

Eradicator vs Dominator philosophie would help here...

a good part of the ship form the Diable avionic are already battle carrier, a lot of them are very good(Fractus, Pocket Gust, Gust and Maelstorm), so they need to each have something unique about them...Storm look like a missed opportunity, I personally don't see the point of this ship.
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1603 on: January 07, 2022, 10:34:08 AM »

The Gust and Storm are used completely differently. Consider their ship systems.
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Kanjejou

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Re: [0.95a] Diable Avionics 2.64rc1 (2021/12/11)
« Reply #1604 on: January 07, 2022, 11:05:10 AM »

The Gust and Storm are used completely differently. Consider their ship systems.

indeed the Gust can use its ship system the Storm cannot because its too OP starved to have flux and guns

Also the AI seem to bug very hard because of how small shield are even more against redacted even in a 1vs1 scenario, often shutting down the shield and showing its side to take maximum damages
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 07:35:31 PM by Kanjejou »
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