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Author Topic: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect  (Read 855 times)

Killer of Fate

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add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« on: June 29, 2024, 02:42:03 PM »

damage reduction of 10% is ridiculous and uncounterable as a mechanic. And although plenty of elite skills are just kinda... Straightforward, none of them I think are as ridiculous as this one. With the exception of the shield skill one, but eh...

The point is that I was thinking that instead of it being a 10% damage reduction, the skill could be adding a new mechanic. And also positively coagulate with a newly added hullmod... I dunno, let's call it like... Quantum Tunnelling... And the hullmod would be called the Probability Calculator.

What the effect would do is that it would give a x% chance to deal say 100% additional damage. For stuff like Thumper or Plasma Cannon the effect would be calculated for each salvo not each projectile. And for weapons like the Chaingun, the effect would trigger for a short period. Mechanics similar to Team Fortress 2.

Systems Expertise+ could have a say 5-10% chance of triggering the effect. And the hullmod would cost an amount equal to that of Reinforced Bulkhead. So, that wouldn't have to have any ridiculously powerful s-mod effect to justify building it in. And would add an equal amount the Systems Expertise+ would.

ps:

whilst the ability for a ship to have a small chance to deal damage far above their attempted minimum would introduce plenty of chaos into the game itself, making it pretty much impossible to predict how fights would go. Even if limited to such a quasi-common yet uncommon trait. The point is that... That is precisely what this is supposed to achieve.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 02:47:13 PM by Killer of Fate »
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Phenir

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2024, 05:04:36 PM »

"I can tank this reaper with my shield" but then it turns out you could not in fact tank it with your shield because the AI rolled 20 and now you're overloaded for 20 seconds. Guess it's time to die. In case it wasn't clear, I don't think this is a good idea. Plus it can really punish armor tanking when suddenly a projectile hits twice as hard. It's funny you compared it to tf2 crit mechanic when I'm pretty sure the common opinion is crits in tf2 are terrible as a mechanic.
Also you messed up the topic title.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2024, 04:18:16 AM »

you can retain the original hit strength of the weapon, and pretend the damage are two instances... Or in case we lowered the damage from bonus 100% to 50%, it would be one and a half instances?

The effect would be very rare, as only officers with elite Ordnance Expertise would be able to use it. Or ships with a specific hullmod, which wouldn't exist in average if any variants, similarly to DTA.

The people in TF2 hate that mechanic, because high end players enjoy pwning noobs for 20 minutes, without giving them any chance of actually striking back. As they spam rocket launcher shots from behind a corner with a pocket medic holding a quick-fix for them. Whilst 20 f2p engies defend currently uncontested control point.

the argument that you can't tank a missile that is designed for high explosive damage is ridiculous. This would make more sense in case of the Sabot. Or a Heavy Needler. But that is precisely the point. The player should be living in constant fear of things always going the wrong way. The game becomes static in that often when you engage enemies, the fights are very similar, because there isn't enough randomness. Not enough maps. Not enough wacky effects. Not enough ship, build variety. And if there is variety, it usually feels weak. Mostly because ships are designed with an op budget that is significantly restrictive. Only opening up through the usage of s-mods. Kinda... Not all of them. Remnants for example have very varied slots, allowing them to equip a strange variety of weapons. But the situation there is slightly complicated.

A situation of tanking a Reaper with a shield and then getting overloaded... This mechanic would partially fix the issue of the fact that the AI doesn't understand how missiles work in terms of opportunism. Validating their short-sighted behaviour as there is always a minor chance for them to achieve something... But then again, this would only exist if a ship has an elite Ordnance Expertise effect. Meaning that the chance of this occurring would be very rare. Especially for fleets that prioritise Missile Specialisation from my understanding.

Also, messed up the title of the post? Seems fine to me? Even in your response it seems fine? What are you talking about?

ps:

On the topic of Team Fortress 2 the random crits' purpose is to help players break chokepoints. Otherwise forcing them to rely on stuff like Ubercharge or maybe sniper or spy picks. Though in the latter that can be very difficult.

The alternative of breaking chokepoints are the mechanics of ultimates the Overwatch introduced, it being an attempted successor of TF2. Something I kinda despise. As it kinda made a random stupid thing that was meant to introduce some chaos into the game into a somewhat polished neatly tied up feature. Which actually proves really boring and makes games extremely predictable.

To reiterate, I'm not sure if I had stated this. The point of this mechanic would be to make enemies more unpredictable and combat scenarios far more difficult to control. Especially in the case of Remnants, which would be the primary utilitant of this mechanic. Hmmmmmmm... Most likely making DPS races far more viable strategy of defeating Remnants than camping with an Astral and a bunch of Warthogs... Or something... No offense to those latter strategies. They are quite impressive.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2024, 04:45:38 AM by Killer of Fate »
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2024, 03:20:40 AM »

Good luck finding a TF2 server that keeps random crits on... or bullet spread. Or that it has people on it. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack and i hate it.
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Mattk50

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2024, 03:34:10 AM »

Leaning heavily on RNG is not really fun and is just generally very bad game design as it creates a hard disconnect between the player's actions and their outcome.

There are games where "gambling" against an opponent's actions where timing means you can't react, you have to predict. This can be fun but those games work because it's a matter of predicting what's going on in the other guy's head... in a singleplayer game against NPCs it doesn't work. And in the implementation you suggest, even if it was PVP, there is no predicting, it's just randomly getting blown up by RNG, or getting kills by it, sounds like a complete waste of time...
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Killer of Fate

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2024, 11:09:27 AM »

okay, point taken, you guys hate RNG *** you over. Personally I just felt like some fights aren't vivid enough. In that there aren't enough things to be afraid of. Point was that random critical hits would be an interesting mechanic on the Ordnance Expertise+, which would make them actually quite rare. And with an additional hullmod, they would be a mechanic to be exploited by the player.

And then the Remnants... Cause they would probably land Ordnance Expertise+ often.

Personally I enjoy RNG. And I enjoy the fights being unpredictable because things constantly go wrong. For you and the enemy. But that is a very difficult concept to explain and enjoy. More asteroids. Nebulae slowing speed. (though they do, they remove 0-flux boost I think). And more threatening frigates and destroyers. Fighters too. So that the frontline can never properly form, with threats chaotically popping here and there.

Starsector rewards being slow and thoughtful. Which is fine to me. But I would enjoy to have the cake and eat it too. With there being also significant rewards for being aggressive as well as patient. Aka. Fortune favours the bold... Or something.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2024, 11:29:52 AM »

No no you misunderstood me. I WANT the TF2 random crits and i wouldn't mind such a mechanic in starsector. Be it from a skill... Or weapon(s). Would be funny if the gigacannon could random crit for example.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2024, 11:40:48 AM »

No no you misunderstood me. I WANT the TF2 random crits and i wouldn't mind such a mechanic in starsector. Be it from a skill... Or weapon(s). Would be funny if the gigacannon could random crit for example.
ah, ***... Well, that puts a smile on my face.
I would love for a random crit Tempest build with Pulse Lasers or something. Just s-mod that crit hullmod, and a bunch of other ***. And what if even the Terminator drones could explode like that...

Well, that brings up a question. Should fighters be able to crit? Well, applying the logic of all the other skills and how they affect fighters. No. Applying my logic. Yes.
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Beep Boop

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2024, 04:23:31 PM »

Realistically, the sheer number of bullets fired in Starsector would mean that random crits don't mean anything other than a statistical %-increase to damage.
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Phenir

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2024, 06:33:09 PM »

Realistically, the sheer number of bullets fired in Starsector would mean that random crits don't mean anything other than a statistical %-increase to damage.
Not all projectiles are created equally
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Princess of Evil

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2024, 12:07:11 AM »

Random crits (and spread) in TF2 are pretty common on less sweaty servers (especially non-american ones, crit hate is an american TF meme). You don't actually lose anything if you die to *** in TF, though.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2024, 09:53:22 AM »

Random crits (and spread) in TF2 are pretty common on less sweaty servers (especially non-american ones, crit hate is an american TF meme). You don't actually lose anything if you die to *** in TF, though.
you can't even permanently die in Starsector, to which I was very disappointed
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Thaago

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2024, 03:48:18 PM »

My main issue with this is that it would increase the dominance of missile weapons even further.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: add random crits as elite Ordnance Expertise effect
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2024, 12:05:42 PM »

My main issue with this is that it would increase the dominance of missile weapons even further.
you're absolutely correct... I'm going to write a proposal about missile weapons soonish. PD and fighters, etc.
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