Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Anubis-class Cruiser (12/20/24)

Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11]

Author Topic: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more  (Read 20576 times)

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #150 on: January 22, 2025, 11:36:31 AM »

Hate to sorta necro this thread (but it's still relevant imo), but like
yeah
the crisis system doesn't feel engaging or fun, it feels like the dev directly slapping the player repeatedly for daring to try to use the colony system or all the cool colony item rewards and rare finds you get through the game
At this rate just remove colonies entirely, if they're this hard to balance without making them a massive pain to have to micro manage
the longer I think about Persean League crisis, the more I realise how well designed it is. The only issue I have with crisis is that they are too quickly paced. They will all play a moment after you make your first colonies and then you will have no crisis for the rest of the game

Literally nothing else has to be changed in terms of them.

Just lessen the max amount of fleets being spawned and reduce the rate at which builds up by a half.
Logged

Vaelophisnyx

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2025, 11:47:34 AM »

its not helped by the instantaneous nature of knowledge transfer

installed an AI core? The Heg-INT people know you've done it before you even close the menu. Pathers too.
New colony? The persean league is already drafting the papers to force you to join them.
competing even a little for fuel? there's already a sindrian fleet on the way as soon as your fuel production is online

if any of this took *time* it would be more bearable (still not fun, nor engaging), but since its all instant or near-instant, the entire system seems primed to trap the player in constant micro managment
Logged

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #152 on: January 22, 2025, 11:51:38 AM »

its not helped by the instantaneous nature of knowledge transfer

installed an AI core? The Heg-INT people know you've done it before you even close the menu. Pathers too.
New colony? The persean league is already drafting the papers to force you to join them.
competing even a little for fuel? there's already a sindrian fleet on the way as soon as your fuel production is online

if any of this took *time* it would be more bearable (still not fun, nor engaging), but since its all instant or near-instant, the entire system seems primed to trap the player in constant micro managment
the comical nature of installing a Gamma Core and then turning around to see a Hegemony fleet standing right behind you

I don't mind it. I think it's okay.

I just wish there were less fleets. Cause having every single one of your systems be overrun with mercs, inspectors, enforcers and etc. makes the Core Worlds feel weirdly empty in comparison

But Persean League launching a blockade of 20 fleets is actually amazing. And I wish Alex never tons it down.

BUT I WHAT I WISH ALEX DID... To balance it out... Is rebalance profile mechanics. So stealth in Starsector is easier.

You know... 100 base profile... And then it scales 20->40->80->160
Instead of 30->60->90->160
Having this and the strength of your own system's nav buoy does help you complete the Persean League crisis significantly easier
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 01:05:36 PM by Killer of Fate »
Logged

Breadley

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2025, 01:28:00 PM »

Crises are still opportunities, for the most part, and most of them can be solved without a combat fleet.
Spoiler

- The Pirates can be bribed to leave your colonies alone. The best way is with a fusion lamp, that way Kanta's Den with have a new and lucrative demand for volatiles.
- The Pathers require a planet killer, which can be found while exploring, at the Sentinel Site, and the fight bypassed with a Hegemony commission.
- The Perseans 20% deal can be renegotiated with 2 out of 3 arguments: A) 5% income kickback to gens Hanna or whatever, B) defeat the blockade, or C) Raid Kazeron for their pristine nanoforge, or as I call it "OPERATION:DOORKICKER". Or you could sat bomb one of their worlds as an ironic "Get off of my property" gesture.
- The Hegemony will only send AI Inspectors if you use them, but the investigation gets halted/ prevented if you join the Persean league. I haven't tested this, but joining the Perseans before using AI seems like a painless solution. Otherwise you will have to defeat 3 fleets and talk to the high hegemon to get them off of your back.
- The Church is bull$#!%, but is only triggered by having an agrarian world. A deal can be made to have them leave you alone, but you miss out on the luddic majority bonus. I personally say send their invasion fleet to Moloch, as fighting off the attack doubles Luddic Majority. Guess which Crisis I ran into first? I deleted that save before I let those hypocrites take over my colony. Kill them all!
- The Sidrian fuel company doesn't like competition, and will either sat bomb your fuel refinery, or take half of your fuel income. "OPERATION: DOORKICKER 2:ELECTRIC BOOGALOO" will have you cut a bloody swath through the Sindrian navy, but raiding their syncnotron core gets them off of your back. defeating their attack boosts fuel income by 25%
- Tri-Tach also doesn't like competition, and will send mercenaries to disrupt your business. "DOORKICKER 3: THE REVENGE", can be performed on any Tri-Tach colony, with the aim to be as disruptive as possible. A meter fills, the attacks cease, and a conversation with a high+ importance Tri-tach contact can get a sweet accessibility deal between parties.
- The Remnant get pissy if you share a system. Don't do that.
[close]
With a few quirks of the game, you can get by with raids and stealth for the most part.

Imho people are too hooked on "Hulk smash brute force gives instant gratification" to actually read and understand the in-game texts and in general to use their grey matter.

Colonies are optional, I consider them more of a secondary objective in the game (and most def not money/ship hull/weapon printing machines until they are well developed) as you can get everything in other ways without having to worry about any crisis, given that you have hands:
- Money from bounties
- Hulls and weapons from black market traders or nanoforge slots if your rep is high enough (also from loot)
- Supplies from planets with heavy industry/starforge (you can check what industries the planet has after you landed)
- Fuel from planets with fuel production (also check for when you land)
- Free storage at abandoned stations

Maybe the game should be more clear about that just because you could scrape together a fleet that can manage to transport the 1000 crew to the planet to form a colony you are still inadequately equipped for what comes next.
Logged

eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #154 on: January 22, 2025, 05:35:43 PM »

Crises are still opportunities, for the most part, and most of them can be solved without a combat fleet.
Spoiler

- The Pirates can be bribed to leave your colonies alone. The best way is with a fusion lamp, that way Kanta's Den with have a new and lucrative demand for volatiles.
- The Pathers require a planet killer, which can be found while exploring, at the Sentinel Site, and the fight bypassed with a Hegemony commission.
- The Perseans 20% deal can be renegotiated with 2 out of 3 arguments: A) 5% income kickback to gens Hanna or whatever, B) defeat the blockade, or C) Raid Kazeron for their pristine nanoforge, or as I call it "OPERATION:DOORKICKER". Or you could sat bomb one of their worlds as an ironic "Get off of my property" gesture.
- The Hegemony will only send AI Inspectors if you use them, but the investigation gets halted/ prevented if you join the Persean league. I haven't tested this, but joining the Perseans before using AI seems like a painless solution. Otherwise you will have to defeat 3 fleets and talk to the high hegemon to get them off of your back.
- The Church is bull$#!%, but is only triggered by having an agrarian world. A deal can be made to have them leave you alone, but you miss out on the luddic majority bonus. I personally say send their invasion fleet to Moloch, as fighting off the attack doubles Luddic Majority. Guess which Crisis I ran into first? I deleted that save before I let those hypocrites take over my colony. Kill them all!
- The Sidrian fuel company doesn't like competition, and will either sat bomb your fuel refinery, or take half of your fuel income. "OPERATION: DOORKICKER 2:ELECTRIC BOOGALOO" will have you cut a bloody swath through the Sindrian navy, but raiding their syncnotron core gets them off of your back. defeating their attack boosts fuel income by 25%
- Tri-Tach also doesn't like competition, and will send mercenaries to disrupt your business. "DOORKICKER 3: THE REVENGE", can be performed on any Tri-Tach colony, with the aim to be as disruptive as possible. A meter fills, the attacks cease, and a conversation with a high+ importance Tri-tach contact can get a sweet accessibility deal between parties.
- The Remnant get pissy if you share a system. Don't do that.
[close]
With a few quirks of the game, you can get by with raids and stealth for the most part.

Imho people are too hooked on "Hulk smash brute force gives instant gratification" to actually read and understand the in-game texts and in general to use their grey matter.

Colonies are optional, I consider them more of a secondary objective in the game (and most def not money/ship hull/weapon printing machines until they are well developed) as you can get everything in other ways without having to worry about any crisis, given that you have hands:
- Money from bounties
- Hulls and weapons from black market traders or nanoforge slots if your rep is high enough (also from loot)
- Supplies from planets with heavy industry/starforge (you can check what industries the planet has after you landed)
- Fuel from planets with fuel production (also check for when you land)
- Free storage at abandoned stations

Maybe the game should be more clear about that just because you could scrape together a fleet that can manage to transport the 1000 crew to the planet to form a colony you are still inadequately equipped for what comes next.
There are a few types of complaints about the crisis, none of them have to do with not reading.

The first is the spam they send into your system. It alone is obnoxious enough to make the average player just resort to sat bombing.

The second is the lack of preparedness for the Persean League armada. Yes, you can fight the supply fleets, or the Admiral fleet, but new players are going to struggle with that as the fleets are fairly well armed and guarded by other fleets. You can give the PL money to stop, or lose money to the blockade, but even new players aren't going to do that as it's absurd given the state of sector, and are again going to resort to sat bombing.

The third is for players like me the PL is too large to fight all at once due to the mercy rule, and too small to have two max enemy fights. 10 is the max it should be as the mercy rule typical will allow all of them. Otherwise, you would have to make it 20 fleets or slightly above, with two Admirals and double the supply fleets.

The fourth is time consumption. It takes a while to beat the crisis entirely. Once is fine, but every playthrough and it gets tedious enough to just sat bomb for the resolution.

Fifth is the extreme overreaction by most of the factions, in comparison of the day-to-day dealings between factions. The PL is terrified that the Heg can just walk over and kill them, so they take an 100% defensive posture, but will still sacrifice an absurd number of fleets to target the player. The Diktat does literally nothing until they decide to sat bomb the player. The Path doesn't even try to sabotage as part of their crisis, they just go straight for a sat bomb. The Church literally tries to steal one of the player's worlds, which the player can't even steal back.

Sixth is the best way to beat the crisis is just sat bomb everyone that can be stopped with a Sat bomb. Which is just bizarre in context of the state of the sector. The factions shouldn't be provoking someone on the edge of the sector while they still have their own fights in the core, and definitely should be giving up when faced with the potential of sat bombing.

Seventh, it's unavoidable if you have colonies. There are very few things in this game the player has to engage with. None as extreme as the crisis.

Eighth, there's no way to turn it off as far as I know. It doesn't play nice with mods, and it is just tedious past the first playthrough.
Logged

Vaelophisnyx

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #155 on: January 22, 2025, 06:06:18 PM »

yeah that's a good way to look at it
right now the only way to "Avoid" these is to...not engage with the content at all. Otherwise it's having your hands tied to the desk with a baseball bat smacking them until you either satbomb people into submission or just give up
Logged

Seanchaidh

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #156 on: January 22, 2025, 09:13:48 PM »

why the talk of sat bombing Persean League crisis? Tac bombing is more than enough. I like just fighting the fleets, though. Developed colonies ought to be endgame-ish so I don't see the problem with the colony crises being difficult. Actually, I think it'd be cool if the main factions had crisis-like fleets in their home systems hanging around separate from their patrols or threw that kind of firepower at each other every so often.
Logged

eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: Persean League Crisis, and Crises in general, killed my desire to play more
« Reply #157 on: January 22, 2025, 11:59:22 PM »

why the talk of sat bombing Persean League crisis? Tac bombing is more than enough. I like just fighting the fleets, though. Developed colonies ought to be endgame-ish so I don't see the problem with the colony crises being difficult. Actually, I think it'd be cool if the main factions had crisis-like fleets in their home systems hanging around separate from their patrols or threw that kind of firepower at each other every so often.
I could have sworn I tested that and tac bombing only delayed the event, the PL crisis points kept increasing.
Would you mind double checking for me? Tac bombing will disrupt an event as you are destroying the military industry which spawns the fleets.
You can delay, but not completely stop all events indefinitely simply by tac bombing.
I've used the delay method on the Church and Heg once.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11]