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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

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Messages - DownTheDrain

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241
I'm not sorry to say NO!!

I'm tired of 98% of all modern games needing less than 50ms latency to be playable.

@ApatureUnicorn:
there are already THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of space sim MMO's ..... go and play one of those instead of trying to turn this into another clone!!

Calm down, he just asked, and very politely at that.
Personally I couldn't care less about multiplayer in SS, but to each their own.

242
From what others have said you'd basically need to rewrite the entire game for multiplayer, so that's not looking too hot.

edit:
I just realized that even the FAQ on the main page explains why there will be no multiplayer in SS.

243
Strange, ships entering the map should stop their burn when an asteroid is near, and for me they do. Are you seeing this under certain conditions or always?

That happens quite a bit for me as well.
You can sort of tell that the ship tries to slow down in time but it doesn't always succeed. Maybe that's linked to the asteroid having momentum as well, no idea.

That said, the collision damage is rarely an issue. Having asteroids in the way at the start of a battle and thus losing all the initial speed boost is pretty annoying whether you hit the damn rocks or not.

244
Modding / Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« on: September 27, 2016, 06:40:23 AM »
I suddenly made a background today.

Looks like quite a bit of work for something that you 'suddenly' made.
Great atmosphere.

245
Suggestions / Re: Fighting piracy with convenience: steam workshop
« on: September 24, 2016, 04:36:44 PM »
Guys, that's just it though. Most piraters aren't determined to pirate.

For reals. It's a common misconception.

I talked about this all at length earlier, but check out this http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-28-valve-piracy-a-non-issue-for-steam
It gets into why most piraters pirate.

And this is about who your average pirater is, how common pirating is, etc http://www.dailytech.com/Nearly+Half+of+Americans+Pirate+Casually+But+Pirates+Purchase+More+Legal+Content/article29702.htm

The first article is from 2011 and basically amounts to Gabe Newell's personal opinions, which admittedly carry some weight considering his success.
The second one is from 2013 and backed by a study that used a fairly small sample size and was conducted via telephone interviews.

You may be right or wrong with your assumptions and conclusions but as far as empirical evidence goes I wouldn't consider it all that definitive.
I'm not really invested enough to go searching for more recent articles though, so I guess your claim stands by virtue of you having provided some links at least.


246
Suggestions / Re: Fighting piracy with convenience: steam workshop
« on: September 24, 2016, 03:16:29 PM »
And I mean outside sources that would inform a user that they can pirate the game and get all of the mods here. I think it'd require them to be familiar with the game pre-steam launch, or possibly be part of a community that talks about games they're pirating. Someone hearing about a game from their isohunt or whatever community first would know the deal. I would guess that it's a fraction of 'casual piraters,' but it would be interesting to see some hard data on that.

Well, I just did a quick google search and the first non-legal source I found actually has the mod forum linked in the description and the Starsector+ thread linked separately as well for some reason. So apparently that's easily accessible without being part of any community.
 
Quote
Basically, I'm arguing that if a user sees a game on steam, checks out the mods on steam workshop, and then checks with outside sources to make a more informed purchase, my guess is that they'd make the assumption that they're not getting convenient access to those mods unless they buy the game.

I really don't want to appear to be promoting piracy here, but if said user is determined to pirate the game then I very much doubt they'd just give up because the game is on Steam and has workshop support. Surely they would instead look for an alternative source for the mods or a pirated version that already comes pre-packed with mods.

247
Suggestions / Re: Fighting piracy with convenience: steam workshop
« on: September 24, 2016, 02:21:17 PM »
I should have expanded on my last point more. It goes back to things I said in other posts. The assumption when seeing a cool game with workshop support on steam isn't that it supports them outside of it or is otherwise a convenient pirating experience because most games with steam workshop support use it exclusively to encourage people to purchase it on that platform vs pirating. Do you think that the average user will look into the forum of a game before purchasing it? No. I disagree with that assumption. I usually check the price, check the rating (very positive or better), checkout the screenshots and vids, read a few reviews on steam, and then finally consider what features it supports. If it supports steam workshop, I will check out what's available there before making a purchase. There's generally enough info on the steam platform to make an informed decision without relying on outside sources. That's part of its success, even for niche games.

Are we talking about the average user in general or the average user that buys almost exclusively from Steam?
I am fully aware how popular Steam is but I'm not sure you can assume that nobody consults other sources just because you don't.

Frankly, our experiences with Steam and steps we take before making the decision to purchase differ so much that there's not enough common ground for much of a discussion.
I mostly buy from Steam during big sales or if a game is only available there. Otherwise I browse their new releases in case I missed an interesting title but usually purchase from GoG or directly from the developer (Paradox, Matrix Games, whomever).

That's not to say that I'm opposed to Starsector being offered on Steam. I'm perfectly fine with whatever works best for Alex.
But the workshop... yeah... not a fan. If you absolutely have to put it on a dedicated hub for mods at least use the Nexus, although that one has issues of its own as well.

Yeah  that's fair. I can't assume everyone does things my way, and you can't assume everyone does things your way. I'm probably in a better place to represent an active steam player point of view, generally speaking, though. And while other sources, say rock paper shotgun, may say it's a fantastic game with awesome mods - are they likely to get into the specifics of the modding scene? Hey guys, just so you know, you can pirate this game and the most recent version of all of the mods? I don't know. I suppose someone could see a post about starsector on a pirating forum so they'd be informed by that perspective. It'd be intersting to know the percentage of casual piraters who are part of such communities, casual or other. I don't know anything about that bit of culture.

Again, the workshop doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to the way the game currently handles mods here. So you can have your cake and I can have mine ;D. Nexus is okay. You do get categorizations and ratings there at least.

And yeah, there may not be a ton of middleground between us. I'm quickly realizing that many folks here are either not steam users or not heavy steam users. I suppose that makes sense given the current state of the game. I mean, it's not on steam xD

Alright, let's agree to disagree on Steam in general and the workshop in particular.
In the end it mostly depends on what the actual modders prefer anyway, no matter how (in)convenient a mod hub is for users.

As for the pirates promoting games/mods, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at.
Piracy can help or hurt sales but I have no idea what the numbers for niche indie games are or if those differ by price and genre or some such.

248
Suggestions / Re: Fighting piracy with convenience: steam workshop
« on: September 24, 2016, 01:37:13 PM »
I should have expanded on my last point more. It goes back to things I said in other posts. The assumption when seeing a cool game with workshop support on steam isn't that it supports them outside of it or is otherwise a convenient pirating experience because most games with steam workshop support use it exclusively to encourage people to purchase it on that platform vs pirating. Do you think that the average user will look into the forum of a game before purchasing it? No. I disagree with that assumption. I usually check the price, check the rating (very positive or better), checkout the screenshots and vids, read a few reviews on steam, and then finally consider what features it supports. If it supports steam workshop, I will check out what's available there before making a purchase. There's generally enough info on the steam platform to make an informed decision without relying on outside sources. That's part of its success, even for niche games.

Are we talking about the average user in general or the average user that buys almost exclusively from Steam?
I am fully aware how popular Steam is but I'm not sure you can assume that nobody consults other sources just because you don't.

Frankly, our experiences with Steam and steps we take before making the decision to purchase differ so much that there's not enough common ground for much of a discussion.
I mostly buy from Steam during big sales or if a game is only available there. Otherwise I browse their new releases in case I missed an interesting title but usually purchase from GoG or directly from the developer (Paradox, Matrix Games, whomever).

That's not to say that I'm opposed to Starsector being offered on Steam. I'm perfectly fine with whatever works best for Alex.
But the workshop... yeah... not a fan. If you absolutely have to put it on a dedicated hub for mods at least use the Nexus, although that one has issues of its own as well.

249
Modding / Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« on: September 24, 2016, 11:49:37 AM »
Probably I draw better the ships than portraits :-\

Not sure about that.
I like the first portrait a lot, the 4th one looks pretty good as well.

250
Suggestions / Re: Fighting piracy with convenience: steam workshop
« on: September 24, 2016, 11:43:06 AM »
Steam workshop subscription keeps your mods up to date.

And completely screws up when a modder uploads a new version without proper playtesting.
Not to mention the hassle when Steam auto-updates and renders all your mods for the previous version unplayable. Admittedly that has gotten a lot better and doing a rollback has gotten a lot easier, but I distinctively remember the times when Steam murdered modded games on a regular basis.

Quote
You don't have to dig through a forum periodically to see if there is anything new.

Maybe not, but the forum is where all the interaction with the modders happens and where you can leave feedback, make suggestions and get quick answers. And please don't bring up the Steam forums as a counterpoint. I've spent quite a bit of time there and about 80% of it is pure cancer.

Quote
A user considering buying the game isn't going to assume it supports modding outside of steam when seeing the workshop indicator (most of mine don't).

Isn't that a point against the workshop then?
Either way, with a game as niche and as indie as this I'd say we can assume that the average user will probably do enough research to figure that out.

251
General Discussion / Re: 4 years....
« on: September 24, 2016, 11:26:25 AM »
i only still linger here and complain about muh fighters because i loved the game, love the game and will probably continue to love the game barring some great catastrophe that irrevocably ruins it forever somehow

I'm pretty sure that's true for all of us, even the most constant complainers.

If Starsector was *** we'd all have said so once or twice and then moved on because it wasn't worth wasting any more time on it.
Most people usually only stick around to nag and make demands if they are somewhat invested in a game or at least see a lot of potential.

252
Suggestions / Re: Fighting piracy with convenience: steam workshop
« on: September 24, 2016, 12:07:04 AM »
I did a bit of digging on steam ownership stuff. My understanding is that it doesn't remove your rights over what you did. You can still do stuff with it elsewhere (unless it's subject to licenses from tools that created it). What it does mean is that steam could do whatever they want with it on the steam platform. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33pw0t/licensing_and_mods_coming_from_a_gamer_with_a_bit/

Not sure your link really makes a strong case for using the workshop.

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However, at any point in the future they may change the rules, and require that the a more complete set of rights of any product uploaded on their platform be transferred to them. This is what Linden (2nd life) and EA (the sims) did. All the more reason to avoid steam workshop like the plague.

253
Modding / Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« on: September 22, 2016, 03:03:06 AM »
But I want that these ships were pure and white.

That's your call of course, the red and white looks great though.
I don't know how much work it would be to offer an alternative skin for each design but I think I like this version even better.

254
Modding / Re: Spriters judgement thread [non-sprite art allowed]
« on: September 20, 2016, 09:14:31 PM »
Looks great Ryxsen, again the coloring is really great. As for the nose thing people are complaining about, I think the nose is actually in the right spot, the line for the bridge just needs to be longer.

I'm no artist, but the nose and mouth don't seem to line up, so at least one of them is not in the right spot.

255
General Discussion / Re: 4 years....
« on: September 18, 2016, 04:32:11 AM »
Nice necro, and I don't mean that in an ironic way, this was a good read.

The only thing that pains me about the long development time is the mods.
Sure, there's plenty of good ones around and I'm thoroughly grateful to the modders that continue to provide updates and improvements, but there's also a lot that have been lost along the way.
If you go back a few pages in the mods subforum you come across so many intriguing projects, so many excellent sprites, designs and backstories. There's just so much wasted potential, for lack of a better word, because real life issues got in the way or people grew tired or bored of constantly updating their mods whenever a new version of Starsector was released.

I'm not complaining of course. I can't mod for *** and I'm fully aware that these are passion projects that modders work on in their free time, but it makes me a bit sad to think of how much more amazing content we could have if the game had had a 1.0 release at some point.

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