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Messages - Morbo513

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286
General Discussion / Re: Independent suddenly go hostile?
« on: May 04, 2017, 02:34:10 AM »
I think there's an inherent problem with having factions for supposedly factionless people, and this goes both for Independent as well as Pirates. I know it's like this because the alternative is probably a hell of a lot of work. If you've played STALKER's CoC mod with dynamic relations, it's the same issue. These "factions" are each comprised of people doing their own thing, each concentrating on their own survival and gain, over any wide-ranging strategic or ideological goals - and if any have such goals, they aren't necessarily shared with other members of the "faction". They aren't organised in the same way as the Hegemony or Tri-Tachyon. A bounty hunter going after pirates for the hegemony isn't going to share the same interests as a smuggler - Which is another thing that bugs me. These smuggler fleets shouldn't be designated as such, they should only really be identifiable by their behaviour (Transponder off/going dark on approach) and fleet composition. But their very existence is pointless gameplay wise, since you're going to *** off that entire "faction" for engaging them despite that fleet's criminal acts, while the system's authority might reasonably see such an action as lawful. There's more aspects and facets to this issue, but I don't really have a solution other than making each independent world, and each independent fleet type their own sub-faction. If you rack up a bounty, all the bounty hunters will be hostile to you (With some actively hunting you). If you're constantly pirating independent trade fleets, they'll spread word to one another and put that bounty on your head, while avoiding your fleet themselves. If you're targeting smugglers, those other sub-factions shouldn't care.

most games like this you cant avoid the consequences of your actions.  it becomes too easy for the player.
I think it simply makes sense that if a fleet is outside communication range of the civilised systems, they shouldn't be able to communicate they were attacked by you or any others. In such a situation, what consequence would there actually be? As the economy systems become more complex, this could be a viable means to create instability, or on the other hand, the player (and AI fleets) could take jobs to escort scavenger fleets.

287
General Discussion / Re: What Kind of Ship do you Pilot?
« on: May 04, 2017, 01:52:47 AM »
In my fleet, I have an Onslaught, a Mora, an Aurora, a Sunder, a few non-combat vessels, oh, and 18 Wolves. That's what I'm flying. I'll take a Medusa if there's one knocking about, but I just can't have fun with anything less mobile - Phase skimmers, fast ones particularly, are a lot more capable of getting hits in where it'd otherwise be impossible.

288
Bug Reports & Support / Re: Wolf (D) Restoration
« on: May 04, 2017, 01:37:29 AM »
One of the things for the .1 release is clearing this stuff up, yeah.

Awesome. I wonder, would it be possible, or even worthwhile to make hull variants dynamic in general? For example, I could buy a Brawler somewhere, then take it to a Tri-Tac station to have it upgraded to the (TTS) variant? Of course, doing so would require good standing with the faction in question.

289
Bug Reports & Support / Re: Wolf (D) Restoration
« on: May 03, 2017, 09:53:09 AM »
The destroyed weapon mounts hullmod is to show why the actual ship is lacking two weapon turrets. It is intentional to not be able to reclaim them.
If I'm paying 50k to restore a ship that, brand new, usually costs what, 16, I damn well expect them to be replaced, along with the extra 10 OP. I understand that it's the pirate "variant" of the Wolf, but it's only so because it's been abused to hell and back. That makes it no different from a normal Wolf that's been blown up and recovered 20 times over. The only reason the "variant" exists is to enable the possibility of destroyed weapon mounts in the first place, as I assume their dynamic destruction is impossible, or has yet to be implemented.
On OP, if the intent is to limit it for degraded ships, some of the D-mods could simply cost OP. At least then, I'd be able to compensate for the persisting destroyed mounts after restoration.

290
Bug Reports & Support / Wolf (D) Restoration
« on: May 03, 2017, 06:46:10 AM »
Not so much a bug as an oversight - Restoring the Wolf (D)s used by pirates (And also generated post-combat) does not bring them up to spec - They're still down 10 OP and still lack two of the three small energy turrets (Despite the Destroyed Weapon Mounts hullmod being removed). Not sure if this is true of other (D) ships, but I thought the intent of restoration was to completely overhaul an otherwise degraded ship. I think the cause is quite obvious, with those (D) variants being their own ship rather than being generated through actual damage. I'm not sure if this is still intended with the way D-mods work now, but personally, I'd prefer to see them removed, with their skins being applied dynamically depending on degradation, and the D-mods being applied at random to pirate ships.

291
Suggestions / Shipyard hull stocks
« on: May 03, 2017, 05:35:05 AM »
I feel most stations don't carry enough of the each ship for sale. Take TriTac and the Wolf - Across their few stations, and a playthrough up to 209/04/03, I've seen one for sale. Considering their ubiquity amongst TriTac and Pirate fleets, I find it hard to believe they're manufacturing/selling only one each year.
The suggestion is that every hull manufactured or sold regularly by a given faction or station always has an entry in the ship store, with a given number in stock - dynamically fluctuating of course, to emulate other fleets buying these ships. Hulls non-standard to the faction would remain as one-off as in the current system.

292
Suggestions / Re: Boarding/Salvage Mechanics
« on: January 21, 2017, 09:30:45 AM »
I remember that Alex said that the battle salvage was temporary.

i would not mind if it was permanent but there was other fleets that would salvage too. Some ting like all battles Player vs NPC or NPC vs NPC would create a salvage and and every faction would have salvage fleets that would roam their space. that would cause the salvage that were in highly frequented zones to disappear quickly and on more remotes zones would last a long time if not forever.
This is a really cool idea, would love to see it. Said salvage disappearing over time does make sense because destroyed ships will maintain their velocity though, but I'd prefer that to be the "backstop" for instances where no salvage fleet shows up

293
Suggestions / Re: Boarding/Salvage Mechanics
« on: January 17, 2017, 10:24:27 AM »
I don't see how you could damage a ship "carefully".
In the end any disabled ship has at least one facing of armor destroyed and whole hull worth of hp lost (unless it was already damaged before combat). You can't do less damage than that.
Doing more is only possible by stripping more armor facings or shooting at already disabled ship.
Well, let's say there's a base chance of each degraded hullmod being applied upon a ship being disabled; Damage in combat (While the ship's still alive) to each component would increase the chance of the hullmod affecting that component being applied.
There'd also be a tradeoff in that you can do further damage to a disabled ship to reduce the strength of any remaining crew, at the risk of destroying it completely - a choice you might make if you don't have many marines, but want to take a larger ship.
There could even be (expensive and rare) weapons with limited ammo dedicated to disabling a ship with minimal risk of damaging its systems, which would leave the entire remaining crew alive. There could also be (Equally expensive and rare) weapons that are designed to outright kill the crew, but are guaranteed to cause systems damage.

294
Suggestions / Boarding/Salvage Mechanics
« on: January 17, 2017, 07:12:53 AM »
This is less about my own suggestion, more a prompt to discuss boarding and salvage in general, and how it's affected by combat. Don't worry, I'm not about to talk about boarding during battles or making it a mini-game, I'm more concerned with what defines the chance for a disabled ship to be boardable or recovered. As with everything, I'm not sure how 0.8's upcoming changes will affect any of this if at all, nor their practicality or feasibilty, but to get my suggestion out of the way:

Salvage, by default, occurs if a ship is disabled but not destroyed (regardless of whether it's enemy or friendly). There are two further variables: Whether the salvaged ship is recovered intact, or has sustained damage to critical systems - producing a (D) variant (In the case of modded ships or those currently without them, simply applying the hullmods - jumping ahead, how this would work with weapon mounts I don't know).
The type of damage sustained by the ship, and how often to what systems throughout the battle will determine these variables. For example, if it suffered a lot of EMP damage, it's almost guaranteed to have fried flux systems, possibly to the point of rendering all other systems inoperable.
If it had its engines damaged heavily, it's almost guaranteed to have degraded engines, if not destroyed engines which would necessitate a tug to get it anywhere.
 If a particular weapon mount were damaged repeatedly throughout a battle, it's likely to provide a malus to weapons mounted on them or disabled outright.
If it took tons of HE damage all over, it's likely to come back with compromised armour.
And so on.

Then comes the question, "What's the point of salvaging ships if they're just gonna be degraded afterwards?".
If you take care not to completely obliterate the ships you're fighting, you can take them more or less intact, though this'd be extremely rare unless you outfit your ships specifically for the purpose, but this'd come at the cost of the firepower needed to bring them down in the first place.

The next logical question is "Won't it be too easy to get new ships if it's easy enough to avoid doing too much damage?"
This is where Marines and surviving crew come in. The less overall damage the ship sustains, the more of its crew survive, meaning more Marines are needed to guarantee a successful boarding action. Surviving officers on board the ship could also give them a bonus (Depending on skills...?)

So you now have the ability to, damage dealt and marines spent notwithstanding, gain a ship (Or ideally, the option of attempting to board/recover all disabled ships) out of each battle. Where's the trade-off?

Recovery of any vessel, captured enemy or friendly, would necessitate the investment of heavy machinery and supplies to restore its basic functions, as well as time. If these are unavailable, they require a tug to tow them to a port that has the necessary facilities, or conversion of one of your operable ships into a tug with the Monofilament Cable hullmod, expending CR and supplies. If you don't have anything that can serve as a tug, it must be restored on the spot - this could be another utility for the construction rig, speeding up and possibly diminishing the costs of the process.

So, you got a crappy ship out of the battle that can't fire a Vulcan cannon without overloading. To go back to that first hypothetical question, "What's the point of salvaging ships if they're just gonna be degraded afterwards?", you'd also be able to restore these ships to their original states at certain ports - in order of cost, mostly through ones belonging to the faction the ship is from, but also through military markets you have access to and black markets. And costly it would be - each (D) hullmod you remove would cost somewhere around 1/3rd of the ship's value (Increasing the less friendly the port's faction is with the ship's originating faction, due to sourcing of parts), as well as further investment of supplies.

I think I covered the bases of cost/risk/reward, the hope would be that 95% of the potential salvages you simply disregard due to not investing into the logistical side of things, but when you encounter that one ship you really want for yourself you can take it, if you win and if you're careful about it.

And before I forget, the upcoming Salvage (Note, I wasn't referring to this when using the term "Salvage" before) mechanic, ie being able to visit the sites of past battles, could be another avenue for this, and a "career" option in its self - Invest enough into the logistics and you could go around picking up the husks from other battles, salvaging, recovering and restoring them, then selling them off. Both this and taking them as prizes from direct engagements are how I imagine the pirates getting the vast majority of their ships. There could be a couple skills in the Industry aptitude revolving around this.

295
Suggestions / Orderly Retreat
« on: January 17, 2017, 01:38:47 AM »
This is way simpler than the last suggestion I posted.
Simply put, Orderly Retreat would be similar to full retreat, in that all ships are ordered to retreat. However in this case, rather than the entire fleet retreating at once, they would retreat in order of damage/CR vs. speed. So, the fastest, least degraded and damaged ships will screen for and provide cover to the slower and more damaged ships to retreat.
Don't think there's much more explanation needed than that.

296
Suggestions / Combat Readiness Overhaul - Crew morale & Management
« on: January 17, 2017, 01:08:01 AM »
This is an extension of a post I made in another thread about CR.

Currently, Combat Readiness encompasses both how well the ships' systems are maintained, and the ability of their crews to maintain them. Thos is currently simulated with a flat timer, which in turn degrades Combat Readiness upon expiring, eventually leading to malfunctions.

The reason I see this as an issue is this is a poor emulation of the factors that actually feed into the effectiveness of any team in carrying out their respective tasks. Of course, spending any length of time in combat is going to be stressful, but the degree to which it is stressful, and to what degree that stress affects performance, will change throughout the course of any action and is based on innumerable factors.

The proposal is to separate Crew Morale from Combat Readiness, and make Combat Readiness a dynamic factor in combat, rather than a constantly degrading variable. This would result in CR being simply an aggregate of the following factors, and more than anything else, define the performance of, and chance of malfunctions on a given ship.

Let me preface this by saying I'm well aware of how game-changing this'd be, not to mention the effort it'd take to create or that there may be technical constraints making much of this unfeasible. This is just how it'd ideally go in my eyes, and as I've said before, ideas come cheap, so why not throw it out here?

So, without further ado, I'll break it down.

Crew Morale is defined by:
Crew Veterancy*
Crew Numbers ("Many hands make light work")
Officer Veterancy
Leadership Skills
Supply/Fuel status
Equipment (Eg. (D) ships have a negative effect)
Fleet Size
Time spent travelling without docking
Recent victories/losses

Crew Morale is affected in combat by events within combat, AKA Combat Stressors:
Incoming/outgoing fire
Maneuvering
Flux overloading
Hull Damage
Crew Deaths
Enemy vs Friendly fleet composition (Incl. Ship destruction/retreat)
Enemy fleet disposition (Ie Unprovoked attacks on neutral fleets would reduce morale)

Crew Morale defines Combat Performance (AkA CR), ie:
Speed of combat repairs
Weapon Fire Rate/Reload speed
Auto-fire weapon accuracy (Leading)
Maneuverability
Malfunction Chance

Combat Performance is affected in equal measure by Morale factors, and hull damage.
Furthermore, a fleet's overall Combat Performance will determine its likelihood of retreating or attempting to disengage to begin with

*Plainly, the morale of veteran crew members will be affected less by any factor, positive or negative. A green crew member on his first mission would be much more emboldened by the destruction of an enemy ship, for example, than the dusty old bastard who's seen it a million times before. In essence, the greener the crew, the more malleable their morale.

So, let's go with an example.

Your sizeable fleet's crew has high morale, as you're collectively well supplied, experienced and equipped, and have many ships in the fleet. They feel as though they can't be easily defeated, especially off the back of destroying several pirate fleets.
You enter an engagement with a slightly weaker enemy fleet. They have less, worse ships than your fleet, so your crew's morale is unaffected - The enemy fleet's green crews however are *** themselves - inexperienced and panicking, some of their ships already suffer the odd malfunction simply jockeying for position.

During the opening engagement of the battle, your ship is hit by a torpedo. This immediately kills some crew members, but since your crew are veterans of countless battles, this doesn't phase them too much - there is additional stress on the ship's systems however, due to the mere fact that there are less members to perform tasks. Malfunction chance increases slightly (On top of the large increase caused by severe hull damage), as does the time it will take to repair those malfunctions. More than enough crew remain at high enough morale to keep the ship functioning optimally however, so engine speed, weapon and flux efficiency are unaffected.
In turn, you destroy the frigate that fired the torpedo. All your fleet's crew gains a slight morale boost, but it is very slight as again, they're all veterans who've seen it all before. Furthermore, it is only the one ship out of the 30 fielded by the enemy in this battle.

It drags on for much longer than anticipated. After your fleet suffers a few losses of its own, the enemies are emboldened, gaining them some morale, while your ship and its crew have been slugging it out for a long time, with their morale diminished as they and the ship are pushed to their limits. You opt to pull away from the line, giving the crew some time to recover, during the course of which a further pair of enemy ships are destroyed.
After a minute, you join back in and help destroy the enemy's flagship. This breaks the enemy's morale and they retreat.

Fleetwide, the effect this battle had on morale is mixed. It was a protracted engagement which ultimately resulted in victory, but not a crushing one and losses were suffered. However after some time, morale returns to roughly the state it was in beforehand, as the factors that defined it at the start are more or less the same - You still have a large, well equipped and experienced force who are in good supply.

The bottom line is this would increase the risk/reward factor of both conservative and aggressive strategies, as well as lead to a more natural development of battles. In essence, your performance in a battle will define your ability to continue performing in a battle, rather than being forced to disengage because an arbitrary timer expired.

It'd also give utility to items like domestic/luxury goods and recreational drugs. The former are amenities that your crew could do without, but would probably prefer to have. The latter could be used for a short-term morale boost at the expense of degrading it over a long time.

297
Mods / Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.6 - UPDATED! (12.01.2017)
« on: January 12, 2017, 10:34:27 PM »
I have to congratulate you on this mod, I can't believe I played SS for an entire year without trying it. The ships look great, are fun to use and challenging to fight without being unbalanced; the backstory, system design and music, it's all great. What I'd most like to see more of is corvettes and gunships (In Starsector in general as well as the mod). I really like the Robberfly, so much so that they comprise 90% of my fleet. They're very versatile and can punch well above their weight especially in numbers, but they trade massive vulnerability for their speed and relative firepower. This is some A-Grade stuff, thanks for putting in the time and effort to make it.

298
Suggestions / Re: Fighter movement
« on: June 30, 2016, 08:54:12 AM »
satellites don't need to be able to dodge projectiles though.


the way fighters move in the game obviously implies more than one engine. the OP doesn't really know what he's talking about.

now that i think about it you'd need three assuming a non-turret primary weapon

"rudder" placed off-center in front or back to rotate your nose to track enemy as you orbit
lateral thruster to move sideways
primary thruster to keep from leaving the circle and to cushion against weapon recoil

I know perfectly well that for a space ship of any kind to be able to function in general, let alone combat, it'd need thrusters for movement in all six directions. I should've made it clearer in the OP; I'm not disputing that fact - though lateral/vertical thrusters would most likely be weaker, meaning slower acceleration in those directions. Anyway, my point is that the way they fight in Starsector isn't reflective of how they do so in any other representation of space combat, or real/simulated examples of naval aviation (Not that old and modern aircraft had any other option - speaking of which, even helicopters will generally attack in a dynamic fashion rather than trying to slug it out with whatever might return fire.). Restricting their movement is a simply a suggestion as to how to achieve the behaviour that I'd see as appropriate for small ships fighting larger ones that out-strip them in every way except speed.

Go play Freespace 2 and try to beat any level that has you fighting capital ships by circle-strafing them. In that, you also have vertical and lateral thrusters but none are as powerful as your main engine. You can't rely on them to effectively evade, or get you out of range of their guns before you take significant damage - for that, you need to point your ship and its main engine in a direction and go forwards. So, as it translates to attacking capital ships or even bombers with turrets - You fly towards the target, do your damage, turn back and fly away at full speed before you can be destroyed.

299
Suggestions / Re: Formations
« on: June 29, 2016, 10:38:08 PM »
1) While I really like the idea of formations, there are a number of reasons why they will probably never make it in. One big reason is that individual ships are constantly trying to close or back off based on whether they have the advantage or not.

2) One idea that might work is very rigid, close formations. Each formation would act like a meta-ship and only move as fast as the slowest ship.


... an hour of thinking, typing, and distractions later ...


3) Not so formation-y, but changing the escort command might go a long way. Split it into guard, escort, and follow: guard tries to stay between the target and enemies; escort tries to fight alongside the target; follow tries to keep the target between itself and enemies.

Numbered cause cba splitting quotes

1) Is there any reason this couldn't extend to formations as well as individual ships, ie that behaviour is disabled for member ships and is deferred to the leader

2) Not a fan of this, mainly cause it doesn't account for the maneuverability and speed of the ships in a formation. The formation leader is the pivot point for its members, so it'd be wonky if I led a formation containing cruisers in say a Kite - unless, of course, the formation's rotation speed is changed based on the speed, maneuverability and distance of the "pivoting" ships, but this would cause problems if ships in the formation, especially the leader, have fixed-forward weapons.
This, however, could be the basis of a formation system. Those rigid points would be the movement targets of ships in the formation.

3) I'd welcome this irrespective of formations, at least as a stopgap measure.

300
General Discussion / Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« on: June 27, 2016, 07:51:30 PM »
I like SS+'s way of limiting fleet size by supply consumption, which can be upgraded with the fleet logistics skill IIRC, rather than limiting players to a certain number of ships; when a ship that fills one of those 25 slots can be anything from a Hound (D) to an Onslaught it doesn't make a lot of sense.

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