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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Topics - speeder

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Modding / Stuff needed for economic modding
« on: December 23, 2015, 08:10:41 AM »
1. there is a huge inconsistancy of what is implemented on API and what is implemented on a implementation...

For example some things can be done with MarketAPI, some only with Market

some things can be done with CommodityOnMarketAPI, some only with CommodityOnMarket

2. Prices calculation (that is one of the thigns that are most annoying me) are done automatically, always, and only by some functions that keep calling long chains of functions... there should be a way to override prices. (also, the price system should even for vanilla be different, the current system probably waste lots of CPU just by jumping around with all the calls needed).

3. There should be a way to actually stop the vanilla economy... telling it to update once every 4000 real world hours helped though.

4. The market information GUI is very confusing, I have no idea how to influence it... in fact this even apply as player, I have no idea what the market information GUI is showing and how it calculates stuff, I tried to understand, but it just looks arbitrary very frequently (even when playing a 100% unmodded game).

there are some other things, but this is what I remembered now :) I got inspired to make this post after seeing Histidine post about AI and Nexerelin coding problems.

General Discussion / The best shipping ships
« on: December 20, 2015, 07:36:09 PM »
I was trying to figure for my mod, how much it costs to ship stuff.

So I made a LOCalc Spreadsheet

Here are some notable info:

1. Shuttles suck, period.
1.1 Shepherd suck even more than the shuttles.

2. Cerberus is a mediocre ship, Hound is even worse, but still better than shuttles (by a margin of average cost of moving cargo being 1/4 than of a shuttle)

3. Best dry goods transport ships, assuming a route from Corvus to Askonia:

EDIT: Explanation of the number: The formula is: ( total space - space used on the trip ) / ( supplies + fuel price for the trip )
Example: Starliner at burn level 8, takes 0.21 of a month to make a 5 ly trip, this mean it needs 3.13 supplies, and 21 fuel, for a total of 1362.50 credits for the trip, also 446.88 of cargo space will be available (because you used 3.13 for the trip supplies), thus it can ship 446.88 cargo for 1362.50 credits, thus 1362.50 / 446.88 = 3.05

Atlas (1.89 per cargo unit)
Buffalo (2.52)
Tarsus (2.55)
Starliner (!!! 3.05)
Mule (3.34)
Gemini (!! 3.58)

4. Same as above, but for liquid goods (for now, only fuel...)

Phaeton (0.77)
Dram (1.13)
Prometheus (1.29)
Cerberus (O.o 5.71)
Starliner (!! 5.95)

honorable mention to Gemini (6.53)

all other ships are worse, most of them much worse, also Prometheus is seemly not worth it, unless you need its combat power...

5. Same as above, but to transport passengers (crew and/or marines)

Starliner (0.88)
Nebula (2.03)
Valkyrie (2.61)
Mudskipper (4.07)
Gemini (10.44)

6. Overall good ships:

Starliner is just awesome, better than the mule for dry goods, almost better than all non-tanker ships for fuel, and more than 100% more efficient than the second place to transport passengers.

Gemini in a surprising twist (to me at least), is a reasonable ship, that has flight decks!

If you don't care about cargo transport profitability, but do care about flexbility, all combat freighters are reasonably interesting (but if you care about combat + cargo only, then mule is the ship of choice).

Mudskipper and Nebula are one of the worst "cargo" ships that still have a utility as "cargo" ships, but overall they aren't bad, having all transportation costs in mid to low range.

7. Notably non-interesting ship:

Valkyrie, if you ignore the lore (that says it can land and provide fire support on atmosphere), suck.

8. Final conclusions:

Don't ship fuel with Atlas, only Valkyrie and the shuttles are worst there.
All cargo ships cost around 75 credits to ship a passenger... don't do it (even for marines is probably unprofitable)
Did I say that shuttles suck?

Oh nevermind, what matters is that Starliner is really *** great and awesome... and now I need to grip my seat hard hoping Alex won't nerf it...

9. Random useless trivia: the term "nerf" came from Ultima Online, when they tried to balance the Katana by making it suck, players started to say that the Katana was in fact a nerf bat, because getting hit by a Katana hurt as much as getting hit by a nerf bat, the verb "to nerf" then intended to mean turn a weapon into a nerf version of the weapon.

EDIT: shepherd suck even more than shuttles.

Modding / Please let me override the Economy engine!
« on: December 19, 2015, 07:08:59 PM »
I am... very disappointed with the economy engine, no matter how much I try to use workarounds on my mod to make the economy work better, it just don't work...

One of the biggest problems is the pricing system, and how markets buy and sell from each other, it create some bizarre bottlenecks in the economy (when markets need to move massive amount of goods, the price calculator breaks, if my calculations are correct, trying to sell millions of ore can make the price drop to 1, this is leading to a situation on my mod where refineries don't have enough ore to work, yet ore exists in massive quantities and is cheap, non-refinery markets are abusing the ore low price and stocking up, while refineries need to make massive purchases that break the price to them, and end not buying anything, thus they are stuck without ore).

I found no way to work around it, the only solution I can think is just override the Economy class.

Alex I saw you mentioning in other threads that you think the economy takes too long to reach its long tail.

While making my economy mod, I noticed 3 important factors in this:

1) current economy update speed is rather slow (in my mod I set it to 1 day, and saw no significant performance degradation)

2) the "rolling" average factor is too low, at 10% it means that if a market could not buy anything and started with an stock of "100.000" would take 110 updates to get to zero, as you can imagine 110 updates with 30 days to update is a LOOOOOONG time.

3) Production has some circular dependencies, that although usually is fine, combined with the last 2 facts make it a serious problem.

Example: The Autofactory makes machines from metal and rare metal, volatiles and organics, many producers of those take machines as input, for example volatiles explicitly produce slower if it don't meet its machine demand, so to step up production to maximum the autofactory need all those materials, then the material makers need the little extra machine made, to output a little extra materials, to output a little extra machine, and so on...

I need more testing, but to stabilize those "loops" it is seemly needed about 90 updates, thus on vanilla about 90*30 days (this mean 3.75 hours in real world time).

General Discussion / Anyone else saw super-speed ships?
« on: December 12, 2015, 07:06:09 AM »
I was going to post this on the bug report, but I decided to not to, maybe I am just seeing things...

But here I was testing my mod, and I forgot to enable "hide" console command.

Then I see a pirate trying to get me, he enables burn drive and... start to zip around the screen like a bee on crack, he wasn't just moving at burn drive speed, he was moving at about burn 30 I think, and making some very sharp corners...

when it managed to engage me, it was a group with only destroyers (no frigates).

I wonder what was that.

I noticed while making my mod, that the biggest contribution to supplies costing 200 (on my mod at least) was the refining complex.

I did my thing, and it was mostly fixed...

Still, later I was re-reading the code, and found a part I copied and pasted from Vanilla had a bug, I checked on Vanilla, and it indeed has a bug.

line 34 and 35:


the correct should be METAL and RARE_METAL

Suggestions / I wanna fight a station!
« on: December 11, 2015, 09:18:27 AM »
Well... it is what the topic says...

Of course stations are much bigger than ships, so I don't expect the game allowing you to see or destroy the full station...

Yet would be cool to fight at least part of a station, just that massive structure, bigger than any capital ship, with lots of gun, that you have to think how you will breach it. (maybe inspired by nexerelin, where you don't want to kill stations, only capture them: station fights would be you trying to clear the area where you will dock your boarding party, thus it would be a fight to kill turrets, shields and fighters defending the docking area, maybe you need to explode the door too).

Modding / Modding API small suggestion
« on: December 11, 2015, 05:50:24 AM »
When making my economic mod, I noticed that I can't calculate if the economy is working or not when something has "nonConsumingDemand"

Basically, as I try to make the economy react not only in prices, but also in supply/demand automatically, to know if it is working or not, I am using commodityStatTracker to ask "total supplies/total demand"

For most commodities it work, for example after I made the ore total supply/total demand stabilize a bit beyond 1.0, the economy overall became smoother...

But Volatiles and Crew (and maybe other stuff I don't checked yet) break this data, Volatiles has volatile depots, and seemly the true number is off by 0.2 but I am not sure.

Crew the number is just screwed up, the game says that total supply/total demand is 0.00006, yet all stations have surplus crew (with some stations reaching 700% surplus! I am even thinking of as a bonus to the mod, add a condition called "unemployment" that happens when a station has too much crew available).

So, can you add to commodityStatTracker some methods that take in account the "nonConsumingDemand" ?

I noticed that when I mouseover conditions that are supposed to be a business (example: factories, mines, farms) sometimes you see something in the tooltip like: "Light Industry (14)" or "Volatiles Mine (5)"

What are those numbers?

Modding / What CSV editor to use on windows?
« on: December 09, 2015, 08:31:34 AM »
I noticed that the game has LOTS of CSV files...

And editing them is a nightmare, they have line breaks without special character on it, and also use line breaks to separate rows (I don't even know how Alex coded a CSV reader that understand that).

I noticed that some applications can read the CSV files correctly, some almost correctly, and some get it completely wrong (usually barfing at the line breaks).

But had no such luck with applications that can save them back, excepting applications that don't know what a CSV file is in first place and don't try to format or edit anything except the raw text I changed.

So, what CSV editor you people are using?

I know a guy that worked in real battleships.

Although he never got in real combat, he described to me how real combat worked, because beside drills, sometimes something suspicious happened, and the ship entered combat mode.

In combat mode people were to move to their combat stations, and when they had to shower they needed to run to the shower, and get back in 15 minutes, also even shifting people could sleep less.

I think this in the game is already represented by CR and Peak Performance.

Then I thought of this ability:

When it is active (it would be a toggle ability) it starts draining the ship peak performance and/or CR, in exchange for more sensor range without losing speed or making yourself more visible, also maybe it could give a slighly speed boost (1 burn point bonus, thus this is more relevant to slow ships than fast ships).

The idea is that you can thus join a combat easier (better sense + more speed, means catching up someone easier), but also means you start combat at disvantage (ie: you already lost peak performance/CR)

General Discussion / Coolest lore friendly faction mods?
« on: December 05, 2015, 10:19:43 PM »
What are the coolest faction mods that don't mess up the lore too much? (ie: don't introduce aliens, zombies, animal pilots, anime characters and whatnot).

Modding / null pointer crash on stability tooltip
« on: December 05, 2015, 11:19:11 AM »
I am testing my own mod (and also have enabled here lazylib, common radar, and simulator overhaul)

when I mouseover the stability, I get this crash

65961 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.oOOo$1.createImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
   at Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.T.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.oo0o.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.D.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oO0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.if.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oO0O.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.newsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.ifnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$ Source)
   at Source)

I have no idea what I did that causes the crash, the only thing I remember that I did recetly that has to do with stability is that I set the price effect of stability to zero (because stability lowered ALL prices, I disliked the end result in the economy).

I noticed in the interface that Lobsters not only had different flavour text (that I assumed it was ***, since the price never varied with distance), but it also has extra data about the market of origin and whatnot.

My question is: how are exotic commodities handled differently from the normal commodities? distance REALLY affect them? is the variable "maxExoticUtilityAtRange" in economy.json related to that? What it does?

I want to change the vanilla market disruption events (food shortage and market disruption due to combat, both).

I also want to create my own similar events (I want to make one based on actual supply and demand available, a event for oversupply and another for excessive demand, or something like that).

How I do that? I found that the food shortage has an Event and an Condition, but I didn't found where the Event is fired, neither where the Condition is applied (and unapplied).

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