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Messages - Cik

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16
Suggestions / Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« on: November 24, 2018, 05:59:32 PM »
those rules of war you are talking about don't really exist senpai, the reason they exist is that if anyone breaks them they will be killed by the UN.

there is no UN in this setting. you are killing their citizens and servants, they don't like it, so they drop your rep.

they want you to die and you're being damn inconvenient by refusing :^)

17
i saw the same thing re the bounties.

first round ~40k
next round 50-60k
round 3: 150+k

game pls

18
Suggestions / Re: Independent territory claims
« on: November 23, 2018, 04:06:09 PM »
ANCAPsmileythumbsup.gif

19
Suggestions / Re: Limit fighters on ships to ship basis
« on: November 23, 2018, 10:10:05 AM »
y tho they are already balanced by OP

20
Suggestions / Re: Machine gun problems vs Shields
« on: November 14, 2018, 04:42:32 AM »
cruisers aren't immune to fighters

invest in some anti-fighter equipment or get some carriers

21
Suggestions / Re: Bring frigates back to the late game.
« on: November 06, 2018, 05:38:33 PM »
frigate squadrons seems to be the popular suggestion. i don't think there is anything wrong with it.

just making objectives actually matter would do a pretty decent job of making them at least worth deploying, even if they continue to have no tactical maneuverability and/or standoff worth considering.

22
Suggestions / Re: Set CR Level on ships
« on: November 06, 2018, 04:03:33 AM »
I don't mind CR as a mechanic, after all, even the modern military can't be on combat duty 24/7, and a few engagements that could of been deadly can easily shake even the most stout of people, so some R&R is a needed thing.

That's true, but a US Navy littoral combat ship—which is essentially a frigate (funnily enough, the Navy is actually moving back to calling new LCSs frigates)—can fight for hours or even days at a time, not for three to five minutes.

However, this is a tangent and I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll read people's replies (I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to sneak in the last word or any such passive-aggressive nonsense) but will personally say no more on the subject in this thread.

this is not really true. destroyers and frigates tap out when they have emptied their missile tubes, which can actually happen very quickly (in some sort of really intense shooting war) what you are seeing is them sailing around in non-combat conditions, which is totally different (the primary limiter is fuel) and not combat (where the primary limiter is VLS tube space) LCS is perhaps special in this regard, as it's likely it will expend it's munitions slower, but even still they can go quick if you are actually engaged by something.


23
Discussions / Re: Limit Theory: An Infinite, Procedural Space Game
« on: November 05, 2018, 02:13:19 PM »
f

24
Suggestions / Re: Bring frigates back to the late game.
« on: November 02, 2018, 09:28:02 PM »
ultimately what the players can do whatever they want with their ships, the issue is that currently there is one strategy that is always best (and it's particularly brainless) if you could feasibly play a wide game and win (and build your fleet to do it) the deathball would not be a significant problem.

the game does not model many of the things that force a more reasonable fleet stance- in particular the relatively fixed nature of battlefields (very little unpredictable/substantive terrain) and extremely predictable enemy deployments mean that you never need to bother figuring out where the enemy actually is because they're always going to be in the same place, more or less. there are also no weapons that are really capable of hurting medium+ sized formations of ships, meaning packing more ships into an area is always an advantage down to the point where the rearward ships have to flex to maintain LOF.

in which case you just get a packed line (where most non-line ships are again useless)

are there any plans to look at implementing a more holistic deployment system that can handle shaking up the deployment and taking into account character/player skill / ambushes / terrain / ship strategic mobility etc?

25
Suggestions / Re: Bring frigates back to the late game.
« on: November 02, 2018, 07:28:59 PM »


IMO this sort of stuff (not speaking to your ideas specifically; I remember reading a number of threads on similar topics) too easily shades into "cure worse than disease" territory. That is, it gets complicated, has unintended consequences, is awkward to explain to the player/provide proper UI support for the mechanic/for the player to actually interact with, and so on. All this stuff sounds great in theory but consider how much of a pain it is to just get a relatively-very-simple "retreat scenario" to work well. Until/unless that's sorted, anything more complicated seems like asking for trouble just in principle.

Deathballs generally tend to... not actually be deathballs, anyway. That is, unless it's mostly carriers. Other ships are more effective spread out in a line, and that's what they tend to do, so *to some extent* the spreading-out that objectives are meant to encourage (and, yes, aren't very successful at) happens naturally.


perhaps you and I have a different idea of what a deathball is? what i mean by deathball is that both sides generally ignore any sort of larger strategic maneuvering or terrain holding, go to the center of the map and determine the victor by shooting at each other in a tight a ball as possible (respecting the fact that you can't have nonfighters on top of each other) in current SS, the ideal formation is just the tightest possible formation that concentrates the most possible firepower forward (as you never have to fear any sort of strategic flanking maneuver) gunboats are strictly superior because you can count on the fact that you will be in your element in 99% of battles and those who trade firepower for maneuverability or strategic redeployment speed always lose the trade in the line fights as speed (under a certain value) is mostly useless in actual combat. guns are accurate that anything bigger than a certain size and under a certain speed will be hit 99.99..% of the time.

there are no weapons or tactics that force the player(s) or AI to actually spread itself out and control territory. this is what i mean by "deathball" in this particular situation, there is no role for any type of ship who's primary purpose is NOT maximizing firepower on target, which is why frigates are not good- that shouldn't be a frigate's primary purpose and indeed in the game it isn't. it's primary purpose is objective capping (currently mostly ineffective at providing any sort of benefit) force concentration (AI just doesn't maneuver well enough for this to happen reliably) and strategic support (there are many reasons this doesn't really work and the list is too long to go into here)

i guess perhaps our philosophy is different. when i ask the question "should the optimal battlefield strategy to be "hold W, select autofire, win/lose based on firepower disparity"? my answer is no. you have this entire layer of real time strategy in the game that's effectively pointless right now as 1) you never have to actually give orders to anything to win, and giving orders generally doesn't noticeably improve AI effectiveness or behavior anyway and 2) there is no reason to really distribute your forces in any actual formation or distribution. the ad hoc deathball that forms is enough to do the job and there's no ability or even point to forming any sort of actual strategy.

which seems to me to be a waste of the game's potential personally. the SHMUP aspects of the game have improved noticeably in the last couple patches, but the tactical gameplay has advanced not at all (or even gone in reverse i would argue in several ways with the addition of skills/officers)

for me personally, some novel deployments to spice up the battles is important so the battle(s) do not feel exactly the same every time. how about some mixed up deployments or battlefield hazards?

if i had to name the primary reason that battles in the game take on this form, i would probably say it's the lack of a sensor model that can support more ambiguity and make scouting a little more beneficial. the reason you have picket ships in the first place is that you actually don't know where the enemy is the majority of the time. you want screens (smaller, faster ships) to make sure your heavy stuff doesn't blunder directly into torpedo boats, destroyers or submarines that will imperil you and take advantage of their close range / speed advantages to wreck you.

if you create a WWII naval battle, and assume that everyone can see each other all the time, what you get is exactly what happens in game: everything below a battleship is at best second (third, fourth, fifth etc) fiddle as the battleship's advantages (impenetrable armor, huge displacement, large reserves of ammo, complicated over-the-horizon targeting, big ass guns) melt everything else who's purpose ISN'T just throwing the biggest amount of lead humanly possible.

anyway, the possibilities for improvement are endless in this area. i just hope it gets attention as nobody but me seems to care about it, rip.

26
Suggestions / Re: Bring frigates back to the late game.
« on: November 01, 2018, 01:35:02 PM »
alex does not seem keen on adding scenarios that aren't deathballs.

i've posted several relatively lengthy topics on the subject and though they occasionally they reach 2-3 pages they never get any notice.

unfortunately, everything that isn't megadeathgunboat+n is going to suffer if literally every combat scenario is just a variant of shoot 'em up

the game gives lip service to battlespace control with objectives, but they are (in my experience) never worth going after in lieu of just deploying gun platforms and chainsawing the enemy to death in the shortest possible time.

alex has never told me flat out that my ideas are stupid and will never be implemented but to my recollection they've got no official recognition, which means that any sort of strategic play does not seem to be slated to receive the sort of developmental attention that i believe it deserves.

27
Discussions / Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« on: November 01, 2018, 04:21:19 AM »
gun jamming is and has always been fine as long as it's done at realistic rates

if you don't want your gun to jam, don't melt your weapon by firing it at cyclic for extended periods of time.

28
Suggestions / Re: Bring frigates back to the late game.
« on: November 01, 2018, 04:08:13 AM »
ultimately the problem is:

1. officers are a hard cap on the effectiveness of your ships, and since the scaling is percentile it is always a better idea to have them in heavier ships (excluding frigates and destroyers entirely for the most part)

2. frigates excel at fast terrain seizure, which doesn't matter whatsoever

if you aren't going to touch these two things frigates will remain irrelevant past early mid game. the rest of the problems (cap ships being cheaper, they die constantly, AI is too standoffish) are problems but at current there is nothing a frigate does that anything else can't do much better.

at least if terrain control mattered you could use them for that, and not expect too much if they are fighting destroyers+

29
General Discussion / Re: Do-nothing AI.
« on: October 24, 2018, 05:26:09 PM »
I think the AI has problems calculating it's chance of success as a group rather than individuals.

many times, several frigates will hold a S/O range against a lone adversary, even thought they could easily murder it 3v1. those eagles make me think that it's not considering it's actual group advantage.. each eagle says "i may lose this fight, i should hold range.." without realizing that if they just went in, they could easily win the flux war with their combined weapons.

likewise, the aurora doesn't realize that with it's superior speed and initiative, it can turn this 3v1 into a 1v1 in which case it can win. frigates especially seem to fall victim as individually they are quite weak and fragile. at least if you have a cruiser, if it sits around undecidedly it can usually deliver fire on something to some effect, even if all it's going to do is standoff and shoot it contributes noticeably to the battle.

30
General Discussion / Re: Stalling AI and CR is an unfun mechanic.
« on: October 19, 2018, 05:53:52 PM »
best thing would be if phase ships would just retreat before becoming debris.

since killing them is no longer imperative (IIRC they are never required to complete bounties) there's no reason for them to suicide by waiting so long.

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