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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Messages - Genir

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316
I'm not sure if this shouldn't go to suggestions instead, but I'll try anyway.

I noticed ships droping shields when there are enemy frigates with finisher torpedos *right next* to them, with torpedos basically already aimed. This happens to capital ships, when there are no enemy destroyers or bigger ships around.

I haven't recorded the moment it happens, but I attach an example aftermath.

[attachment deleted by admin]

317
Since the Redacted are so aggressive, having two range-bands of kinetics can be very good. From what I've seen, they will charge into your short-range kinetics, get high on flux, and then can't get themselves unstuck without dropping shields because they can't afford to take the longer-range kinetics on the shields. Then your 1000 range HE and frag get a field day because that ship still can't drop shields until they're out of range of everything because of the HVDs.

Admittedly, two range bands is more of a coincidence in my case. I would be happy with Autocannons in the hybrid slots, if it weren't for their poor range and accuracy (ok, it would still be two range bands, but you know what I mean).

The engagement plan is in fact rather crude and doesn't rely that much on specific weapon ranges: Remnant charges in range of all kinetics, looses shields and is cut down by the beams. Ideally the enemy dies before it has time to react and retreat. We don't have time for chases or repeatedly depleting shields on the same ship. HVD range comes in play mostly when some cowardly Remnant feels like kiting.

And Scintilla spam, but everybody seems to avoid fleets with too many of those :)
The little buggers are happy to play keepaway until their CR is gone, chasing a bunch of them blocking bigger enemies spawning is the hardest part of these PPT-focused battles.

Don't pick fights, you need to be able to deal with everything the Remnants throw at you. As for Scintillas, I had the same problem. They were so annoying and could completely disrupt the battle progress. Now I barely notice them. What changed is my frigate control - I have two control groups of 3 LP Brawlers. Each group stays together and gets one Eliminate order. It's sooo easy to gun down Scintillas with those two Brawler squads it's almost sad. The second, funny thing is my current Executor setup is actually faster than Scintilla!

The shorter range kinetics in hardpoints and HVD in hybrid turrets is very workable. I originally ended up switching to 5 x HVD because I was having trouble killing Apexes though since those can maintain their distance pretty well if it's just a capital chasing. I wonder if these builds have issues with Apexes?

As Draba said, Apex Wall is by far the easiest and fastest part of Ordo fight. I let my Execs loose when fighting Apexes, no Defend or waypoint order. Execs effectively follow the Apex wall and usually concentrate fire in pairs on a single Apex. There is no chasing - Apex loses shields and pops in about 3 or 4 seconds under 4 or even 6 HILs. If one manages to retreat though (especially a SO one), let it go. It'll get back on its own, and with already weakened hull, will pop in 1 second instead of 3.

318
I use mods, but i'm not sure what other mods than nexerelin matter, i don't have randomized worlds.

Maybe remove the mods one by one, and check which one introduces randomness.

319
>4x IR Autolance
>S-modded Advanced Turret Gyros
>Non-contributing slots left empty
>No PD/1 PD gun to fix AI behavior

Wow I love these builds, it's actually perfect.

It's one of the most cursed things I've ever seen, up to and including the image artifacts. If I saw it without context I'd be certain it's a meme.

If THAT can beat five Ordo then I feel like everything I know about the game is wrong.

Why is that? I get the s-moded ADF, but the reset?

320
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What a curious mix of kinetics up front! Cool

And it's not random.

Needler is efficient and quickly drops shields. But adding more than one causes enemy to keep its shields up between bursts - and we want the shields down for HIL to do its job.

Autocannon has good DPS and because of constant stream of rounds keeps the enemy shield down. But Autocannons in hybrid slots underperforms because of poor range and accuracy.

Driver doesn't suffer the range and accurcay problem and it really snipes frigates! Also, for some reason, kiting enemies keep themselves outside Autocannon range, but feel safe in the Driver range. For their own detriment.

 

321
"The population of VeldName is in the millions."

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322
Suggestions / Re: AI controlled ships switch targets too often
« on: July 11, 2023, 04:25:17 PM »
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Basically, the AI tries to move in a way that prevents it from being flanked.

I went through the battle several more times. From my observation the ship does not try to evade flanking, but simply engages the closest target. In fact, the behavior of attacking the closest target is quite evident. When the current target retreats to a distance greater than any other ship, the Executor immediately starts to turn to the now-closest ship. Even if it has to turn 180 degree and ignore several other in-range ships, over which it sweept its targeting arcs. In case of two enemies hovering at about equal distance, this can even lead to the Executor wobbling undecidedly between the two.

323
Continued from https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=27476.60

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No PD/1 PD gun to fix AI behavior

The no PD approach is thanks to your reasoning about having efficient shields.

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Wow I love these builds, it's actually perfect. The only thing to disagree with is ADF

Thanks! I really don't like dragging Oxes around, but I think I'll be swapping ADF for some combat mod in newer build iterations.

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How does that setup get through frigates in time, especially without Hardened Subsystems and ion beams to flame them out?

There's no special sauce here. It just plows through everything, including frigates, fast enough that it doesn't need Hardened subsystems. From what I observed, frigates die mostly as kind of bycatch - they fly around the guns and suddenly explode. As for frigates that are smart enough not to loiter in front of the big guns, I have frigates of my own. Brawlers LP gun down small stuff very effectively. But as you can see from the attached battle raport, Executors do most of the damage. And they do it fast!

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Nothing in the back always leads to some ion beams parking there for me

I have builtin Extended Shields just for that purpose. Plus Flak Cannon to deal with Salamanders, when the Executor feels too safe and drops shields when there are Scintillas around. I tried IR lasers, Heavy Machine Guns and even Heavy Autocannons in the back, but in the end it wasn't worth it.

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Pilum catapult might be worth a try

I tried it, but it didn't do much in my opinion. Locust was better, especially for frigates. But in the end, I prefer to invest OP in non-missile stuff.

[attachment deleted by admin]

324
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Wanna share your builds?

Sure. The old build was focused more on range, but Remnants didn't respect that.

New build, besides different weapons and mods, has non-default weapon groups. Linking weapons with Flak Cannon is VERY important for performance and Time To Kill, as it prevents the ship-wide AI from interfering and disabling weapons to save flux. This solves, among others https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=27247.0.

The officers were changed as well, but I don't have old screenshots unfortunately.

[attachment deleted by admin]

325
Suggestions / Re: CR Should Not Be Used To Balance Ships
« on: July 10, 2023, 08:51:59 AM »
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if you need to fight two or more large fleets, fielding anything smaller than a cruiser becomes a liability due to CR

That's not necessarily the case. I use Safety Override frigates in stacked Ordo fights. The frigates can last through 1800 DP fleet battles.


326
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That actually makes me think maybe Legion XIV can do this too. Maybe there is another 5 ships 5 Ordos challenge that should be done...

I think you should try. There's an enormous improvement potential in seemingly small tweaks, as evident by your Astral project. I experienced it myself with 4 Executor fleet - version that is challenged by a double Ordo isn't that much different from setup that handles a fat 5xOrdo.


327
Impressive.

There's something cool about the Astral, it looks like some sort of a space cathedral.

The Remnants folded under the weight of all the waypoints! But jokes aside, your Ordo was light on Apexes but heavy on Novas. Is that good or bad for Astrals? Personally I find such composition more difficult.

And last question. I noticed Wolfs doing some serious work behind the lines. Isn't it against the 5 ship rule? Would the battle be much more difficult with the Wolfs just capping objectives and not participating in the fight?

328
Suggestions / Re: AI controlled ships switch targets too often
« on: July 01, 2023, 05:40:43 AM »
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It definitely was a problem in last version. Maybe you're now using ships that suffer more from it(i.e. ones with hardpoints)

That's true to an extent. However, i'm not basing my statements on my observations alone. I see the problem of target changing being severe this patch mentioned in Discord.

329
Suggestions / Re: AI controlled ships switch targets too often
« on: June 30, 2023, 06:16:36 PM »
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The AI definitely switches targets too often and it is a problem, but I don't think it's one that can be solved.

But it wasn't a problem in version 0.95, at least not noticeable. So the AI can definitely be designed to keep its target. It's a matter of trade-offs probably.

330
Suggestions / Re: AI controlled ships switch targets too often
« on: June 28, 2023, 05:41:17 PM »
The situation in the OP was chosen specifically to recreate the most severe case of the issue, for easy debugging. However, the problem does manifests itself with just two possible targets.

I'm fully aware the behavior may be the result of AI intricacies and difficult or even impossible to fix. But I'm certain the thing is indeed an issue. I keep seeing it mentioned in Discord discussions repeatedly.

I'll try to provide video examples, but I'll probably take me several days.


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