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16

General Discussion / Re: Re: Player controlled phase ships, not a bit unfair, but extremely unfair

« on: May 22, 2021, 11:19:12 PM »

There is no real counter and you are 100% safe in phase.

Yeah, situations where the entire map is dotted with pilums. 3 frigates and a few swarms of fighters are chasing you totally don't exist.

Yeah, they totally don't  . And if trying to think of farfetched possible scenarios where the Ziggurat wouldn't be ideal and failing doesn't show that it is broken I don't know what would. Jeez frigates and fighters pop like corn in front of the Zigg. It is not prohibited from having PD and other ships in the fleet you may have noticed?

Yeah after soloing several fleets including the 'end bosses' and mod content having not flown any phase ship before I can safely say I have not run into 'real trouble' yet.

It seems I hit a sore spot. I'm sorry to have to point out your favorite no-skill-required toy is unbalanced but there you go, deal with it. Not sure why the attitude but here is some back.

Cheesing and minmaxing should be present in all singleplayer games, but it's senseless to pretend it ruins the game since nobody is forcing anybody to cheese and minmax.

This is a nonsense argument refuted 1000 times that no longer needs a response.

This thread was three years ago.  Two updates ago...

And what has changed since?

17

General Discussion / Re: Player controlled phase ships, not a bit unfair, but extremely unfair

« on: May 22, 2021, 08:36:21 PM »

Just want to add to the 'anti phase ship' contingent.

I didn't bother using them because they seem overpowered. Got the Ziggurat and gave it a try. It's a cool ship and all but extremely broken and makes the game a snoozefest. Uncloak, fire, cloak, recharge, uncloak, fire, cloak, recharge...

I realize the Zigg is the 'super' cloaky ship with a very low cooldown but the phase mechanic just seems cheesy in general. There is no real counter and you are 100% safe in phase.

Going to leave it in the hanger and as a previous poster said continue playing the game as if phase ships didn't exist.

18

General Discussion / Re: Should I hope for a better one?

« on: May 22, 2021, 01:58:35 AM »

It matters very little what kind of planet you colonize in the long run since you'll be swimming in money regardless and that's the only thing colonies produce.

19

Suggestions / Re: Tempest Nerf Options

« on: May 17, 2021, 07:48:16 PM »

Just clashes with the theme of the ship, as I interpret it at least.

20

General Discussion / Re: The state of raiding

« on: May 16, 2021, 08:33:06 PM »

Some really good ideas here. To remove marines as an annoying resource you could tie marines to specialized ships which have a complement that is replenished at port.

21

Suggestions / Re: Tempest Nerf Options

« on: May 15, 2021, 06:23:45 PM »

For the love of God don't give the Tempest active flare launcher! It's an attack frigate not a tanker and it's called a Tempest  . Nerf its survivability further if it must have a nerf. Shield arc or efficiency / armor / hull / remove a drone. Make it more of a glass cannon imo.

22

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 13, 2021, 05:12:50 PM »

I could get behind something like this idea ^, assuming tuning for balance, if the bonuses weren't huge to the extent they allowed the ship to outperform higher/lower ship classes in power/speed if the base ship didn't already. Good suggestion.

23

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 13, 2021, 04:54:43 PM »

Again:  I've laid out how it is NOT overpowered, repeatedly, taking most of your points and not getting many answers back.

And (again) I've laid out how it is overpowered, repeatedly, as have others. If you disagree that's fine, but I have addressed your points re no drawbacks to ignoring it if you don't like it (there are), and supposed drawbacks to using it (there aren't, or they are relatively very minor / easily rendered irrelevant).

This is a very commonly made argument for SP games, and the counterpoints are always the same.

Yup.

You seem to think your opinions should hold as much weight with strangers as they do with you.

 

24

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 13, 2021, 06:47:34 AM »

We can agree to disagree.

Having an overpowered mechanic in a game that a player must arbitrarily avoid if they don't want to destroy the balance detracts from the enjoyment of the game. It's like having a big flashing 'Double power?' button on the refit screen at all times for example. 'But you can just not use it, no drawback!!' isn't really a convincing argument. It destroys immersion even if it is intentionally not used. Similarly with storypoint disengage ('magic your way out of this battle?'). It hurts the game even if you don't use it.

The drawbacks to SO are comparatively minor and can be bypassed. PPT by just retreating when it's low and bringing something else in, no biggie, and in many instances this doesn't apply because things are dead. Range by building short range setups (which you always do) that don't care about range penalties. The whole point of SO is to get right up in the face of the enemy with your broken flux and speed and smash them, so a range penalty is lul.

My issue with SO is that it completely changes the stats and capabilities of ships in an arbitrary and senseless way. If you are happy playing with that great but I can't agree it's a good addition to the game.

25

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 13, 2021, 06:25:21 AM »

Pretty sure my previous post dismantled this strawman pretty hard.  Would you care to elaborate in light of that address?

Not sure what you are referring to. Stuff can work without SO, therefore SO is balanced?

26

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 13, 2021, 06:06:52 AM »

I don't really agree but I am very new so feel free to point out any errors. I'm not saying high-tech being too strong (or low-tech being too weak) is not an issue, but SO can be considered in isolation.

You can't assess in isolation because it scales existing values. The ship mechanics and stats are required variables to gauge it's effect.  It's not flat bonuses by size, like Heavy armor mod, it's scaling existing stats on a multiplier. Now that I think about it, SO shouldn't be a multiplier, it should be a flat value based on size.

Last time I checked the speed bonus is a flat value? Also ships of a certain DP tend to have similar flux venting stats which SO doubles. It's not like maximum flux vent for similar class ships varies widely, outside mods like Scy nation which is a very exceptional case. Low-tech has slightly lower venting which, in a vacuum, you can say generally get less benefit from this portion of SO. However they are slower and the speed boost is flat, so they get more benefit, again in a vacuum, from this part.

SO seems to have a particularly broken interaction with the Hyperion due to the ship's system (I wouldn't know because I don't abuse SO). However the Hyperion is ridiculous without SO too. I think this kind of analysis is a red herring. SO is broken and gives an unexplainable magical ultra performance boost which enables you to outpower ships of higher classes and outspeed ships of lower classes at the same time.

Shouldn't be in the game, jmo.

27

General Discussion / Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points

« on: May 12, 2021, 12:44:13 PM »

Its pretty much hilarious how threads saying the exact opposite sometimes end up sitting one next to the other, poor Alex lol, talk about confusing messages.

I don't envy independent game designers  . From what I know so far, he is doing a great job. Different people will have different preferences, and the core mechanics are sound and fun, which is what matters ultimately. People complaining about this or that wouldn't bother if they didn't think the game was worth their time, and it can be modded pretty much to preference anyway.

@Admiral Warron - I think this suggestion for 'story points' is pretty decent but I wouldn't have anything directly affecting combat like the 'sabotage' one. It just feels like a cheat button, which it basically is. Similarly with the 'item find', genie in a bottle stuff again - unless there is some pretty convincing lore story behind it. That is another thing with 'story points', there isn't any story  .

Personally, if they had to be there, I would have them ultra-limited and do very major things - like some kind of unique one-off structure or a one-time unlock of some 'ultimate' skill or whatever and give you like three for the game after having to complete some missions that make sense to get them. Failing that and in the meantime I think they detract from the game.

28

General Discussion / Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points

« on: May 12, 2021, 05:55:52 AM »

I am playing with Ruthless Sector now and I find it much better. It completely guts the commission to about 10% of the original value. You have to actually pay attention to efficiency and can no longer roll around with a massive fleet doing not much of anything while continuing to accumulate cash (at least until you build up colonies, which I hope will be harder than before, at least for a while, with the 'Starfarer' Nex setting).

This makes you have to actually think about income sources. In fairness it should really be the default setting, and massive paychecks for nothing should be optional easy mode.

29

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 12, 2021, 04:13:22 AM »

I just feel like it needs to be said that doing this on a low tech Cruiser does not do this. This entire safety override problem is one engineered by making nearly all high tech overtuned/overpowered.

Put SO on a Hyperion as compared to a Lasher. Which of those is suddenly able to kill everything. Again Fury vs Dominator, same thing again. Dominator with SO lol. The entire problem with SO is it buffs everything High tech is already overpower in. High tech specifically is the problem, not SO. SO is being blamed for making overpowered ships excessively overpowered, I mean it does scale existing numbers.

I don't really agree but I am very new so feel free to point out any errors. I'm not saying high-tech being too strong (or low-tech being too weak) is not an issue, but SO can be considered in isolation. The SO hullmod being imbalanced and nonsensical doesn't depend on what it is fitted in. Obviously you will get more bang if you put in in a Hyperion compared to a Lasher (I would hope so for something like triple the DP), but if a ship is overpowered SO will make it super OP, and if a ship is junk SO is a way to make it much less junk.

Obviously some ships are more suited to installing it than others, but I still think a mod that doubles your power output when power output is THE stat in the game shouldn't be a thing at all.

30

General Discussion / Re: The Frigate Bias

« on: May 12, 2021, 01:13:41 AM »

I don't think that would solve much. First you would need to hit armor or overload the ship and that is made much more difficult by the ship having SO in the first place. Only other way would be to have some kind of magic-wand CR reducer that penetrated shields which would be OP and boring in itself. Landing a hit and 'reducing CR' is not really too satisfying compared to hitting for damage. I suspect it would rarely be worth doing in preference to damage. You could add it as a side-benefit to weapons like EMP but I don't think CR reduction makes sense as something separate from damage. I am not sure what a weapon with this property would be supposed to be doing lore wise.

I think the problem is with SO itself. When you put SO on a ship, you are not so much customizing it as making a different ship. Just my personal preference but when I see a capital ship I want to be quite confident that it has more power output and is tankier than a cruiser, and not less so because the captain of the cruiser has 'overridden the safeties'.