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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

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Messages - FooF

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1
Suggestions / Reflecting Damage
« on: November 02, 2024, 07:26:05 PM »
I don't play many mods (so this may exist somewhere) but even in vanilla, I'm surprised there isn't a reflect mechanic in the game. Thinking to other games, there's usually a "thorns" or reflect skill for melee classes that turn some of the enemy's own attacks against them. For Starsector, I'm thinking a ship system and/or special kind of shield that reflects projectiles back at the opposing ship.

The devil is in the details, of course, but off the top of my head, I'm thinking that any "leftover" range on the projectile is still in-play for the reflect mechanic. I.e. a 800 range HAC shot that is 500 su away from the reflecting surface still has 300 range left over to be reflected. That doesn't get it back to the original firing ship but if the reflecting ship is moving towards the firing ship, that difference might get made up. Such a mechanic would probably work best with ships that want to be up close anyway.

The first candidate I thought of for this was the Vanguard. As a Frigate, its Damper Field is a nice way to mitigate damage but it's also a shieldless(!) close-range brawler. If the (Modified) Damper Field also reflected enemy shots, it could use even its defensive system as an offensive weapon. For this case, in particular, the Damper Field still works as normal but shots that hit are reflected as described above. Of course, there would have to be limitations. Perhaps shots above a certain damage/shot are treated per usual (imagine Vanguards reflecting Gigacannon shots or Hellbores). Meanwhile, missiles with guidance systems and their own propulsion might bounce off but re-acquire the target (I have in my mind that any given projectile can only be reflected once). Unguided missiles, however, would be returned to sender! I'm not sure what to do with Beams because reflecting them would cause some strange visuals but perhaps some really fun positioning challenges (reflect that HIL at another ship)! What the Vanguard really brings to the table here is a very finite/limited use-case. It's a shieldless Frigate, and though tough for its size, it is not particularly tough in an absolute sense. It will still take damage while reflecting (we're just adding the reflect mechanic to its Damper Field) and will still go down under focused fire pretty quickly. I think this would allow it to compete well with other "elite" Frigates like the Scarab, Tempest, and Omen, which I find to be generally better.

Alternatively, build a ship around a shield/ship system that does this. Turn it on and it doubles the hard flux generated by weapon hits but reflects projectiles back with "extra mustard". Like 25% increased velocity and damage. Call it the Armadillo or Porcupine. Or maybe be a Pirate Monitor variant.

There's also the opposite: a shield that doesn't reflect but actually vacuums up nearby shots. I'm thinking of the Paragon and its Fortress Shield. Maybe that's why it is a giant donut: it creates a micro-singularity in the "donut hole" while the Fortres (Singularity?) Shield is up, sucking up nearby projectiles to hit on the near-impenetrable shield rather than squishier ships in the fleet. Basically a "taunt" or "goading" mechanic. Have some log function with ever-increasing acceleration toward the center of the Paragon via gravity well (max effect at 300? su from the shield, with a very strong effect by 100 su). Maybe it pulls Fighters that get that close, too, though anything even Frigate-sized is unaffected (in practice, it just reduces max speed of fighters by some amount relative to proximity to the center of the ship). Again, I can't imagine Beams being "bent" toward the Paragon (but that would look cool!), but while active, allied ships can huddle behind the behemoth and not worry about taking too many hits.

2
Suggestions / Re: Burn Drive: Don't cancel so fast!
« on: November 02, 2024, 05:35:15 PM »
Right, I was assuming no regen during the burn. Thing is, even if burn drive was available more often, I don’t know if that’s necessarily a buff. Not being able to maneuver is a double-edged sword. If we reduced it to 4 charges, but left regen in, it’d end up being 6 seconds of total burn with 8 seconds of downtime between full burns. A buff, sure, but how useful of one?

Also, I’m not sure how useful trying to use a 1 second burn would be but maybe the AI doesn’t even bother using it if it has less than 2 or 3 charges. It would just mean that the AI that cancels it gets another crack at it a bit sooner, albeit with less burn “in the tank.” I don’t know if that addresses the original problem or not

3
Suggestions / Re: Burn Drive: Don't cancel so fast!
« on: November 02, 2024, 12:10:32 PM »
If the idea of a "refilling bar" is untenable, why not make Burn Drive use charges that are consumed per second of burn? Unlike other charges, the ship will automatically continue to use them until told to stop or they run out.  As long as at least 1 charge is banked, you can reactivate at will. Using the current 5 up/10 down setup, you get 5 charges and they regen at .5/sec. Systems Expertise would also improve the system by a fair bit.

4
No lie: that’s badass. Obviously 6 of them are going to look insane but if you only have 1 or 2 paired with some fighters, it would be much more reasonable. They do look a little funky though…!

5
Suggestions / Re: Expanded Magazine: a S-mod Magazine Nerf Suggestion
« on: October 31, 2024, 05:51:20 PM »
Anecdotal but I had a Paragon setup with 4x Autopulses with S-modded Emags and, despite the general efficiency of Autopulses, it was absolutely unable to sustain all 4 + 2x Heavy Needlers. They spray rounds everywhere and they’re fairly inefficient against armor. It was telling that the ship had better flux management with a freaking Plasma Cannon than 2 Autolpulses in the turrets. (Of course the PC has significantly better armor penetration so it’s actually more efficient)

Again, the extra damage isn’t free. I do wish the refit screen would update to account for the extra sustained flux cost.

6
General Discussion / Re: Is Starsector ready for default Iron Mode?
« on: October 29, 2024, 01:47:08 PM »
It should never be the default mode, regardless if it is “meant” to be played that way. As an additional challenge, absolutely, but the game shines as a sandbox. I’ve done a few iron man runs and I found myself playing super conservatively. It just wasn’t as fun, though I admit that it made certain fights have more stakes. The only real change was that my ships had a lot more D mods on them. I never completely fleet wiped but I definitely retreated a few times.

7
Suggestions / Re: Expanded Magazine: a S-mod Magazine Nerf Suggestion
« on: October 26, 2024, 02:59:31 PM »
Here's my take: yes, the sustained damage is 50% higher but you're also paying 50% more flux. The extra damage isn't "free." Sometimes the extra 50% flux strain (which isn't communicated via the Refit screen) pushes a ship beyond what can handle, especially if you have a lot of weapons benefiting from the S-mod. Quad Autopulse on a Paragon with S-mods is very flux hungry and likes to spray a ton fire at fighters, which isn't particularly efficient. It's something of a double-edged sword.

If there was something I'd change (and I'm not entirely convinced S-modded E. Mags are overpowered), I wouldn't allow the ammo regen bonus to kick in while firing. The idea is to keep the bursts from "double-dipping" from both the extra capacity and the extra regen and creating an extremely powerful alpha strike that has double to almost triple the number of shots vs. the base version. I think that's where the runaway power spike is. Take for example the newly adjusted HBL: it has 10 shots at base before running out, 16 with E.Mags but 28 with S-modded E. Mags. If extra ammo regen only affected the non-firing/no ammo state of the weapon, it would refill 50% faster when not firing (which is still really useful) but couldn't sustain bursts overly-long. Well, no longer than "normal" E. Mags, I mean. If the weapon was firing from empty, the +50% sustained fire would still apply because it would reach a non-firing/no ammo state after each round. Thus, sustained fire would still go up 50% overall.

S-modded E. Mags halving the time between full alpha strikes and increasing sustained fire by 50% is still really good. It just wouldn't contribute to Autopulses and TPCs having double the first-strike capability or HBLs, Paladin's, etc. basically never running out of ammo.

I think we kinda agree, both of our suggestions do the same thing, though I feel like your nerf suggestion is more severe than mine. A stronger nerf is imo a good idea, but I’m not sure it would be a popular idea. Anyway I’ll explain real fast;

I suggested not touching the recharge rate of the smod effrct at all, just reduce the SMOD (not hmod) capacity if you take the Smod version. I had suggested a decrease of magazine size from 50% to 25%, but the exact number doesn’t matter, the point is to reduce the initial alpha so it isn’t a magnitude better than the magazine h-mod. This allows the recharge rate of the Smod to ‘make up’ for lost capacity.

Your version is more severe: it means any ai controlled ship that tries to use a magazine weapon with s-mod magazine must retreat or else it will never see that magazine recharge bonus since most magazine weapons the ai will never stop firing it unless it’s fluxed out while fighting. That’s a pretty severe nerf, imo. However, that change does do something that some (like Prav) pointed out: it makes s-mod magazine less of a ‘fix this weapon’s downside’ sort of s-mod.

also on the note of flux being a consideration that prevents s-mod magazine from being too impactful, that’s true on paper but false in practice. Some magazine weapons are balanced around the idea that they run out of steam after their initial burst, namely autopulser and storm Needler. Their high efficiency means you’re heavily incentivized to use s-mod magazine on them since that means you’re more able to afford that increased flux. Now, I don’t know if that’s good or bad for the game. But I think it’s enough of a reason to tone back the alpha double dipping that we both pointed out.

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily but the idea of reducing the S-mod capacity is inexplicable from all the other S-mod logic in the game. You take an "Expanded Magazine" hullmod that gives you +50% capacity but if you S-mod it, you suddenly lose capacity for gaining a completely unrelated buff? It simply does not follow, especially when the hullmod in question is one of the cheapest in the game. I'm not saying it might not be balanced but there's just no internal logic to it.

As for my idea, I don't think it's as severe a nerf as you think. Whenever the gun is not firing, it's regaining charges at +50%. The AI throttles weapons all the time, especially weapons with charges. For the Autopulse, once empty, it typically waits until it has about 5 rounds before it fires again. With S-modded E. Mags it will fire those 5 shots 50% faster than base. The only thing it won't enjoy is the current +50% regen for the half a second it is firing those 5 shots (or for the ~7 ish seconds as it unloads the whole magazine). It's still regaining charges while firing at the base regen rate, it's just not getting the bonus rate while firing. Ships don't have to retreat out of combat to get the buff or even be at 0-flux, that weapon just has to stop firing/be out of ammo to get the extra regen. If I wasn't clear on that, my apologies.

I imagine it would be something like a 25-30% drop in alpha strike potential and nothing else. To me, that's where the problem (if any) lies.


8
Suggestions / Re: Expanded Magazine: a S-mod Magazine Nerf Suggestion
« on: October 26, 2024, 08:26:18 AM »
Here's my take: yes, the sustained damage is 50% higher but you're also paying 50% more flux. The extra damage isn't "free." Sometimes the extra 50% flux strain (which isn't communicated via the Refit screen) pushes a ship beyond what can handle, especially if you have a lot of weapons benefiting from the S-mod. Quad Autopulse on a Paragon with S-mods is very flux hungry and likes to spray a ton fire at fighters, which isn't particularly efficient. It's something of a double-edged sword.

If there was something I'd change (and I'm not entirely convinced S-modded E. Mags are overpowered), I wouldn't allow the ammo regen bonus to kick in while firing. The idea is to keep the bursts from "double-dipping" from both the extra capacity and the extra regen and creating an extremely powerful alpha strike that has double to almost triple the number of shots vs. the base version. I think that's where the runaway power spike is. Take for example the newly adjusted HBL: it has 10 shots at base before running out, 16 with E.Mags but 28 with S-modded E. Mags. If extra ammo regen only affected the non-firing/no ammo state of the weapon, it would refill 50% faster when not firing (which is still really useful) but couldn't sustain bursts overly-long. Well, no longer than "normal" E. Mags, I mean. If the weapon was firing from empty, the +50% sustained fire would still apply because it would reach a non-firing/no ammo state after each round. Thus, sustained fire would still go up 50% overall.

S-modded E. Mags halving the time between full alpha strikes and increasing sustained fire by 50% is still really good. It just wouldn't contribute to Autopulses and TPCs having double the first-strike capability or HBLs, Paladin's, etc. basically never running out of ammo.

9
Suggestions / Re: Maybe it's time to buff the armor?
« on: October 23, 2024, 12:18:41 PM »
Not to speak for Alex but he's said something in the past that relates to this AI behavior: it's better for the AI to be too passive than too aggressive. Though you may be frustrated at a ship not capitalizing on obvious opportunities (in this case, being too conservative with Burn Drive), you would be irate if the AI constantly killed your ships by using it too aggressively. Not saying that the behavior can't be improved but he's right.

I do agree that the AI cancels Burn Drive too much but I'd much rather it err on the side of playing it safe than suiciding itself. If Aggressive/Reckless doesn't make ships more prone to Burn Drive to pursue, it should, though I haven't really tested it.

10
The problem with a multi role fighter is that if the primary damage is limited (from a missile), you’re going to want it to return and rearm. The longer that fighter stays out, the less pure damage it will deal. If the primary damage is from guns, you don’t want it to come out of the fight unless they’re getting wiped out. I say all this because ship systems (looking at you, Astral) incentivize keeping fighters out vs. in.

The Warthog thread made me want to add some Swarmers or Annihilator rockets to it but then I thought it would put the Warthog in a position where you’re not sure if you want rearming or to stay in the fight. If the Trident had a gun on top of 2 Atropos (or whatever), I don’t know if I’d want it out there pew pewing rather than rearming. Unless that pew pew was significant.

11
General Discussion / Re: How to "actually" play the game?
« on: October 21, 2024, 04:50:57 PM »
One of the most useful things that I haven't seen mentioned yet are the missions. They start you out with a pre-built fleet (so you can learn piloting independently of your ship-design skills), and give you access to every piece of equipment in the game (so you can learn which equipment is useful in a given situation without having to hunt down and buy every item in campaign mode and use trial and error).

They're also consistently challenging, so there's no worrying about a bounty being straight-out unwinnable with the fleet you have, or being completely trivial either. If you can beat all of the missions, then you're familiar enough with the game that the remaining learning curve should be much more straightforward.

Yes, the missions are overlooked but I think the real "friends we made along the way" moment when playing the missions is that they are done without Skills. Skills can do a lot to prop up a poorly outfitted ship and many players can brute force the challenges in the campaign. With missions, nothing separates my Hammerhead from the enemy Hammerhead except for loadout decisions (and possibly skill, if I'm piloting it). Thus, if my Hammerhead wins, I've "won" the loadout battle on even footing. Missions also put you (quite intentionally) at a disadvantage in terms of DP. This means you have to pilot your ship better because even if your ships are better equipped, they aren't going to take out 2-3x their DP. The only ship on the field that can do that is the flagship by virtue of your intelligent decisions. The rest of your fleet, at best, holds down the fort until you can get around to being the decisive factor.

So, yes, play the missions. They're a combat tutorial without knowing it.

12
Change the payload to two AM Blasters.

I sort of thought that too but their slow speed coupled with tiny range makes that…less than ideal.

13
Suggestions / Re: The Medium Assault Gun (attempt #422)
« on: October 15, 2024, 01:26:30 PM »
Yes, I would imagine the "Long-Range (LR) Assault Gun" would have similar stats to the LAG, except 100 more range and 50% more hit strength. It still wouldn't be super-accurate or damaging to armor but it would be good against hull with above-average DPS.

The problem is that "LAG, but bigger" isn't terribly exciting to me, even if it is possibly the most balanced idea.

14
General Discussion / Re: No more blog posts?
« on: October 15, 2024, 09:03:58 AM »
TBH, I wouldn’t be surprised if patch notes came out soonish. They don’t really spoil anything and it does tip us off that the update is around the corner. The time between patch notes and release is still usually a few months but I’m hoping the release is 1Q 2025.

15
Suggestions / Re: The Medium Assault Gun (attempt #422)
« on: October 14, 2024, 01:27:52 PM »
Personally, I think this 800 range explosive should be half way between the Light Assault Gun, and Hephaestus.  With no burst. 

Just a constant stream light explosive damage projectiles, to make you question whether you really want this gun over the heavy mortar.  Infact I think the only reason why you should want to choose it is for matching accuracy and range. 
 
So of 80 explosive damage, at about 240 dps, and .95 or higher flux to damage, w/good aim.  I feel it should be on the heavy end of flux use for the size, and 230 flux/s is there.  I think that's light enough on explosive damage per hit on heavier armor targets to encourage the use of missiles to crack armor.  Maybe even 60 explosive damage at the same dps. 

I’d be all for this…except it’s an 800-range Assault Chaingun (in principle). Now, I would kill for an Assault Chaingun that had two modes of fire: 250 DPS at 800 Range and 500 DPS at 450 range. Half RoF at twice the range or full RoF at half the range. Or, you just have two weapons with identical stats outside of the RoF/range that you can select at Refit. A more accurate and longer-ranged, but half RoF ACG isn’t a bad weapon.

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