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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2 (04/30/22)

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Messages - CorsairZero

Pages: [1] 2
1
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 11:52:35 AM »
I'm giving up on this one.
Too many mental gymnastics on my part / It is actually a fool's errand.
SS has a lot of goofy BS, and shouldn't be looked at this critically.
Thanks for the feedback/replies.

2
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 11:47:59 AM »
I'm assuming the fleets would have to be using hyperspace even while in-system to move that fast between the planets
That would make transverse jump completely boring, regular thing, instead of something impossible without bleeding edge technology that it is referred to in story, wouldn't it?

Fair point. I think I'm going to just throw my hands up and agree that SS is some goofy BS, and shouldn't be looked at under a "realism"/"logic" microscope.
SS is gameplay-centric like Doom 2016 or Horizon Zero Dawn. Don't think too hard about the health pack orbs or robot dinosaurs.
The rules are made up, and the points don't matter.

3
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 11:28:41 AM »
You never fight anything when in system? I don't think I've ever fought anyone in hyperspace in this release yet.

Most of my combat takes place in-system.
Because it only takes days (instead of months/years) to travel between planets while in a system, I'm assuming the fleets would have to be using hyperspace even while in-system to move that fast between the planets (but we, the player don't have to deal with the normal gameplay elements that brings). If instead, in-system travel is so fast because the ships are just way more advanced than I thought, and most combat does not take place in hyperspace, I'd have to throw my hand up and say SS is high fantasy/goofy BS and stop engaging with it critically, like Doom or Bebop.

And it feels like I'm having to jump through too many mental hoops to make the "it's mainly in hyperspace" model/argument work.

Damn it.

4
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 11:12:27 AM »
TL:DR

0 flux boost occurs when ship reactor is running as intended, excess stress/power output causes automated safeties to kick in to ensure maximum safety of reactor operation...

KEEP IN MIND that is me trying to make (at least scenaristic) sense of something that was CLEARLY NOT thought of when the game was being made

My issue wasn't that at 0 flux a space ship in SS receives a speed boost. (Or trying to figure out why a speed boost occurred in the first place.)
My issue was that at 0 flux a space ship in SS receives a flat speed boost of 50 s.u. instead of a speed boost based on a percentage of the ship's max speed (since SS's hyperspace has max speed), or a percentage of the ship's max acceleration (if the ships were in normal space, where there shouldn't be gameplay-effecting limitations on speed, unless it's really close to a source of gravitational pull).

But the game's spaceship combat takes place mainly (or always?) in hyperspace, not standard space, so I consider my original question (self-)answered or close to null.

5
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 10:49:07 AM »
If that would be true you could probably cause a Maairath by running an SO Tempest and flying it straight down into a planet

(or even better yet prometheus lol, cause mass extinction)

There are additional factors/mechanics to consider when an object, such as an SS spaceship, enters a planet's atmosphere from space which could prevent it from doing much damage as a bullet/bomb. Things like deceleration and damage and extreme temperature changes from things like friction, air/gas resistance. The kind of things that cause asteroids to burn and break apart in Earth's atmosphere before they can hit the surface.

But, in addition to not being an aerospace engineer or spending a significant amount of my time trying to understand the underlying mechanics of the matter and energy and forces of the non-fictional universe or whatever, I also ain't no professional scientist.

6
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 10:37:23 AM »
Anyway, don't try to find realism in Starsector. It's not that kind of game.

I disagree, but I understand that many people see this as a fool's errand.

I highly desire internal consistency, including within works of fiction.
And it can be important to understand why/how something works if one intends to modify it.

Although I would describe SS as work of fantasy and/or science fiction, I don't find its design to be leaning so heavily into the high fantasy sphere, like Star Trek/Star Wars, that I have stopped enjoying mentally engaging with the fictional setting and thinking critically about it's internal workings. Including the advanced DRM and 3d printers and hyperspace, which are all plausible enough for me.

7
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 09, 2021, 10:11:33 AM »
To go faster, you add more thrust, so the extra speed would be related to whatever generates that thrust. IDK, maybe you could say zero flux boost is converting extra energy that had been used for something else (shields maybe?) into thrust, so it is a flat value based on how much extra energy you have? Why would a percentage make more sense to you? A percentage of what?

At the end of the day, the game is basically naval combat re-skinned in space. It's like starwars re-skinning atmospheric combat in space. It's not even vaguely realistic, so there's no point in picking through the minutia.

1. In Star Trek, when they want their ship to move faster they divert (all) power to the engines from the weapons/shields. SS's flux system, including the 0-flux boost, reminds me of that.

2. Although I'd be looking at acceleration in a system with no max speed, SS has max speed, so I would instead use +percent max speed, like Helmsmanship's level 2 effect.

3. Good analogy to Star Wars and reskining atmospheric combat, haven't hear that one before. For SS, I've heard "tanks on ice", and naval combat (but more maneuverable) and phase=submarines. The existence of hyperspace storms further supports the naval combat reskin argument.

4. As for picking apart and analyzing the internal workings of works of high fantasy or "video-game logic" being a fool's errand, I've found it's important to understand why a designer designed their system/product a certain way if your intent is to (criticize or) modify that system/product. Not necessary, but often useful enough for me to be a worthwhile endeavor in the pursuit of (criticism or) modification.

5. Thinking about the in-game descriptions more, travel occurs mainly in hyperspace with occasional hyperspace (deep) along with the existence of the hyperspace storms, rather than in standard space, so there's already an in-universe catch-all for the non-standard mechanics of interstellar travel. I'd assume this is why systems and planets take so little time to travel between. Because the fictional characters found out about hyperspace's existence, and how to enter it from what I'm assuming is standard space, and because travel is so much faster in hyperspace, people only re-enter standard space when needing to interact with planets. As in SSeth's Cowboy Bebop analogy, which may be a weak analogy because Bebop has a lot of non-hyperspace combat.

8
General Discussion / Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 08, 2021, 09:21:05 PM »
Any limit on speed in space is fictional.

We could have a hypothetical acceleration/decceleration mechanical system instead, no max speed limits, and dealing with potentially absurd directional momentum even after you stopped pressing a movement key that no speed limits could bring. And forward + side + reverse thrusters on ships.

But even with that hypothetical system, I'd still question why flat values were used over percentages.

9
General Discussion / 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« on: September 08, 2021, 04:41:20 PM »
I ain't no rocket scientist or physicist.
Is there an in-universe or non-fictional explanation for the 0-flux speed boost being a flat s.u. bonus rather than a percent bonus?
Alternatively, I'll take posts/threads where the Devs discuss the 0-flux speed boost's design/mechanics/development in detail, if there are any.
I understand that flat instead of percent is good for QoL/enjoyment from a gameplay perspective. Additionally, I understand SS is a video game, and  doesn't seem to be going for a strong simulation/realism approach in general.

10
Mods / Re: [0.95a] Quality Captains: A Skill Rework v1.0.8
« on: September 07, 2021, 12:12:24 AM »
Dal, for how much crap I give you, I find QC to be one of the best S-mods for SS. Aka "I'm jaded".
Regardless, thanks for a high quality mod and fixes/updates/balancing alongside it.
No puns intended.

11
Hey Morrokain, I requested an update to the mod index to show AO as 0.95a instead of 0.9.1a, but the moderator I contacted hasn't change it after a week or so.

I don't know if the mod creator themselves has to make the request or if Alex has to be contacted instead of a moderator, as it's his post, but I'd assume a lot of potential users are skipping AO because it looks like your mod hasn't been updated to the current major release/version. Just a heads up.

12
@CorsairZero
I'll probably make it so they explain that pirates have encrypted signals even with their transponder off along with a warning to leave them alone, and give the player a pass (if the player passes a cargo scan) if they have a commission. The player will still have to keep their transponder on, however. There are technical reasons for this mostly.

I'll probably also make the pirates at Mordreath neutral once the player takes a commission with the AC.

1. The change for Pirates being (more or less) neutral to AC-commissioned fleets in AC space seems tentatively reasonable.

2. I would prefer you not to implement the free pass for passing a cargo scan with AC fleets, outside of the high rep mechanics consistent with other civilized factions. If it's illegal to have my transponder off in AC space, then I should be punished for getting caught with my transponder off in AC space.

3. I don't love the band-aid/hand-wave fix of encryption lore, but to be fair I have almost the same issue with vanilla NPC smugglers getting free passes from most/all civilized/law-enforcing factions. I dislike double standards, primarily (maybe even exclusively) when it's unjustifiable/unbelievable. I attribute the smuggler issue to dev oversight or, more charitably, to "it's in alpha".

But color me, a questionable leader incapable of growing any of my colony's populations above about half of what the NPC factions are capable of, or only being able to be competitively and logistically efficient when dealing with <3001 units of both cargo and fuel, displeased.

Moving back from that digression:
The (corrupt) act of looking the other way for a high rep character or a special case such as the PC not having to obey the transponder law in part of the tutorial? Both good by me. Both believable.

(Assuming this is different than the Pirates labeled as "Scavenger") Pirate transponder modifications that are only available to Pirates (in Mordreath), utilized consistently by all Pirates in Mordreath, that are also going to be so well made by the same engineers/workers making/maintaining the Pirate's jury-rigged fleets that they could fool AC fleets at close range? No dice.

13
on a side note though, apologies for asking, but where is the 0.95 version? the downloaded version said it's 0.91, at least 2 files in the folder had that number

The first post on the first page of this thread is updated for the current version/patch of the mod, labeled "Download Beta." It links to the NexusMods page.

14
my suggestion (if possible) is that you can only do that if your rep is high enough with them

also, heres an idea, what about an item that when placed at the end of your inventory (or top) it makes your transponder send out a signal that confuses enemy fleets into thinking your an ally if you dont get too close?

As my gripe is mainly/exclusively internal consistency for this point, high rep only is fine by me, and would fit with how other factions' patrols interact with (or choose not to interact with) a high reputation PC fleet.

I think the transponder mod item would be a fine addition if it had a cost/downside, such as being illegal. Again given that I rarely play without the AO mod, I have had a good handful of questionable experiences that suggest this might already be an NPC mechanic, where independent/scavenger/vulture fleets show as "friendly" or "neutral", but then change to "hostile"/Pirate after a few seconds without me taking any aggressive actions toward them, once they have had time to size my fleet up as "easy pickings". But I'm not certain that I just wasn't paying enough attention during the times I thought that happened.

15
The second one is more complicated. Not all of the Adamantine Consortium patrols will care about your transponder. If they spawn from the free market system, they won't harass you. Its impossible to tell if that is the case other than relative proximity however. The free market system is also one of the few places you can trade while hostile to the faction. In design terms, it is a very high-risk/high-reward place to attempt to go. If you get away with it you can get some powerful weapons and ships, but it will take a lot of skill and probably a little luck too. They are allied with pirates under their employ (look at the pirate base's and Xelion's description) and so they sort of have an idea of what their fleets look like. You could also say encrypted signals, etc, for additional handwaving. The real point is that its supposed to be an incredibly dangerous and completely hostile system - whereas a system like the one where you find Galar has some places of relative safety that you can run to if needed.

My advice would be to use a small phase fleet to attempt to sneak in. The new phase tender should help quite a bit there to smuggle stuff out. Also the related skill would be nice.

My issue is that if 5 Pirate fleets are swarming me with their transponders off right next to and then over an AC colony multiple times, and there are 3 AC fleets patrolling right next to that colony, and those 3 AC patrols ignore those 5 Pirate fleets, and I have a commission with the AC at the time, and right when I turn off my transponder one of those AC patrols emergency burns to intercept me and give me a stern talking to with rep loss, then, for the purposes of internal consistency and immersion, I'd say that either the Pirates shouldn't be given the free pass or commissioned fleets should be given one to compensate, with a strong preference for the former.

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