Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: ce-net on August 19, 2015, 03:19:37 AM

Title: Update on the Update
Post by: ce-net on August 19, 2015, 03:19:37 AM
0.7 has been in development for quite some time. While this is fine, the lack of updates on the patch notes thread is quite worrying. The last update on the main thread was on the 23rd of July and as of today (August 19th), approximately two months have passed without any updates on the development of  0.7 . Can we please get an update on this update?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 19, 2015, 04:36:55 AM
It's following the exact same pattern and time-line as the last 3 major releases, expect nothing new for a month and a half, something like that.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Gothars on August 19, 2015, 06:07:05 AM
From my experience an prolonged update break indicates that no new features are being added, but the newly implemented ones are being refined.  It's easy to talk about new features, but not easy to make interesting blogposts about a prologned process of iterating, balancing and bugfixing. Which if true, would mean we're nearing completion.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: selkathguy on August 19, 2015, 09:18:22 AM
Which if true, would mean we're nearing completion.
I think that's the OP's point.  We don't know if that's true.  I was active on my own forums long after I stopped developing my game, and "when it's done" became an inside joke as I lost interest in the project.  But I was still active on the forums for years after I stopped caring about/developing the game.  I am well aware that is projection, and may not be the case here, but it is an example of how being active on your forums does not necessarily mean you have intent of finishing your work, which is why people are spooked.

I don't see see how bugfixing and balancing means you don't need to post a changelog with some regularity.  If you spent a month balancing missiles and market interactions, put that in the log.  Even if that's all you did, and you can be as specific or general as you want.  That way players who care about balancing and tweaks and the framework can read it, and the ones who don't can ignore it while still being informed that it's under constant development from the mere fact that there are regular changelogs with things changing.

Also if you are in the phase of balancing, isn't that was your alpha testers are for?  Isn't that the point of making your game available for purchase so early?  Bugfixing and balancing especially are the quintessential reasons for having alpha/beta testers so that you have a wider set of players from which to pull statistics of what works and what does not.  If you're only going to show things to your testers that you believe are full stable features, then it isn't really an alpha and it's more like an "early-access".
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Gothars on August 19, 2015, 09:47:32 AM
I think that's the OP's point.  We don't know if that's true.  I was active on my own forums long after I stopped developing my game, and "when it's done" became an inside joke as I lost interest in the project.  But I was still active on the forums for years after I stopped caring about/developing the game.  I am well aware that is projection, and may not be the case here, but it is an example of how being active on your forums does not necessarily mean you have intent of finishing your work, which is why people are spooked.

What I meant is that the update/information policy follows an established pattern, so I see no reason to worry at this point.


Also if you are in the phase of balancing, isn't that was your alpha testers are for?  Isn't that the point of making your game available for purchase so early?  Bugfixing and balancing especially are the quintessential reasons for having alpha/beta testers so that you have a wider set of players from which to pull statistics of what works and what does not.  If you're only going to show things to your testers that you believe are full stable features, then it isn't really an alpha and it's more like an "early-access".

There's a difference between getting a mechanic functional in the first place and to hammering out its details and quirks. User feedback is very useful for the latter and frustrating to all sides for the former.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: selkathguy on August 19, 2015, 10:05:16 AM
What I meant is that the update/information policy follows an established pattern, so I see no reason to worry at this point.
If a pattern is one update every 5 years, thats 5-10 years before we're allowed to be concerned? 

This is supposed to be a full-time project.  Changelogs (not even talking about releases I just mean some kind of report) more than a month apart is commonly considered a bad thing for full-time projects. Habit does not make it good practice.

There's a difference between getting a mechanic functional in the first place and to hammering out its details and quirks. User feedback is very useful for the latter and frustrating to all sides for the former.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: ce-net on August 19, 2015, 10:21:49 AM
From my experience an prolonged update break indicates that no new features are being added, but the newly implemented ones are being refined.  It's easy to talk about new features, but not easy to make interesting blogposts about a prologned process of iterating, balancing and bugfixing. Which if true, would mean we're nearing completion.

The refinement of old features has been a constant feature of the in-dev patch notes; in the form of bugfixes, balance and misc. The blog posts and other dev update don't necessarily have to be interesting as their main goal (in my opinion) is to show that development is very much active and ongoing.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Alex on August 19, 2015, 11:04:36 AM
Should I drop by here to say that development is very much active and ongoing? Probably should. So: development is very much active and ongoing :)

(Yeah, I should write a blog post soon. Just wrapped up another... well, not quite feature, but something that's, all in all, taken longer to hammer out than expected. Just one of those things that, gameplay-wise, was hard to make work. Would probably make for a good post, though.

Part of the trouble is there's a lot going on, dev-wise, so it's hard to take the time to write one. As far as the patch notes, they're fairly sparse right now - I mean, it doesn't make sense to put "tweaked X" in there if X wasn't ever out in its original form to begin with.)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: selkathguy on August 19, 2015, 11:24:57 AM
it doesn't make sense to put "tweaked X" in there if X wasn't ever out in its original form to begin with.)
I think it's perfectly good to talk about X even if X isn't in the current public release.  Don't have to include super specific values or anything, but general nerf/buff/rework things. It helps us build a picture of the game and the issues that you're facing, as some of us have a genuine interest in that process (me). But as for other people, it still serves the purpose of showing the kinds of things you're working on and it engenders more trust from prospective players/buyers.  In addition, changelogs are often used as a historical reference for when things changed, and can be useful for identifying an emergent and highly intermitent problem when it crops up over time.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 19, 2015, 11:25:18 AM
This is supposed to be a full-time project. Changelogs (not even talking about releases I just mean some kind of report) more than a month apart is commonly considered a bad thing for full-time projects. Habit does not make it good practice.
Then I suppose that game development is going bad for the past 4 or 5 years huh? And besides continuing to work exactly as before since forever, Alex keep replying to bug reports (sometimes in a manner of minutes even on a Sunday) or PMs, so I don't see why worry in the first place....
Also, as he just mentioned, it's hard to talk about balance tweaks with the players when it's about features that aren't released yet.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: SafariJohn on August 19, 2015, 12:08:55 PM
I was around when Dwarf Fortress went over 2 years without a release, and that community is still just fine. The long wait then didn't bother me, and given how active Alex is on the forums here this Starsector drought is even less bothersome.

Part of the trouble is there's a lot going on, dev-wise, so it's hard to take the time to write one. As far as the patch notes, they're fairly sparse right now - I mean, it doesn't make sense to put "tweaked X" in there if X wasn't ever out in its original form to begin with.)

"Super-Turbo-Jets removed."
"Hellbore sprite changed back to 0.65.2a version."
"Tribbles nerfed by 25%."

 :P ;)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Alex on August 19, 2015, 12:15:46 PM
I think it's perfectly good to talk about X even if X isn't in the current public release.  Don't have to include super specific values or anything, but general nerf/buff/rework things. It helps us build a picture of the game and the issues that you're facing, as some of us have a genuine interest in that process (me). But as for other people, it still serves the purpose of showing the kinds of things you're working on and it engenders more trust from prospective players/buyers.

I see what you're saying, yeah. I think it depends on how you look at it - I tend to view the changelog as "this is what changed compared to the previous version" rather than "this is a point by point list of what I've been doing", though there's definitely some gray area there and I don't manage to keep it 100% the former.

I think the benefit to the "this is what changed" approach is it's more useful to someone seeing a particular section of the changelog in isolation. A "here's what I did" list needs more context to really make sense.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: xenoargh on August 19, 2015, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: Alex
Should I drop by here to say that development is very much active and ongoing? Probably should. So: development is very much active and ongoing  :)
Quote
So said Melville, halfway through Moby ***, lol.  Anyhow, I'm very much excited about this release and I'm looking forward to seeing another blog post as you get closer :)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Dri on August 19, 2015, 12:41:00 PM
You could try what the highly successful and lone Rimworld dev does - basically a super brief day by day update.

Here is what he does: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ma3kFSDZHA4aE_7SSw8CyKCccWF4Dfj0KDQ_A8UB-hI/pub

I think players just want something to read.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: orost on August 19, 2015, 01:16:53 PM
I like what Dwarf Fortress does in this matter (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/). DF goes years between updates and survives on donations, and the little dev logs work wonders to keep the playerbase happy about development.

Not that I really think Alex is doing anything wrong here.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Cosmitz on August 19, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
Dwarf Fortress updates are interesting pure for the 'the hell is he talking about and do i even want to know?'.

Random: " Philosophical study opens up different avenues of discussion that allow people to pass their values to both individual readers and to a lesser extent through the underlying civilization when there's a library with a copy." That's something that'll go into the game. Insane.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: TJJ on August 19, 2015, 03:19:09 PM
Alex, you could setup your version control system to post each and every commit comment to the forums  :D
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Alex on August 19, 2015, 03:28:21 PM
You could try what the highly successful and lone Rimworld dev does - basically a super brief day by day update.

Here is what he does: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ma3kFSDZHA4aE_7SSw8CyKCccWF4Dfj0KDQ_A8UB-hI/pub

I think players just want something to read.

Hmm. If it works for him, then I can't really knock it, but man, is that ever Not My Thing.


Alex, you could setup your version control system to post each and every commit comment to the forums  :D

<shudder>
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 19, 2015, 03:38:39 PM
You could try what the highly successful and lone Rimworld dev does - basically a super brief day by day update.

Here is what he does: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ma3kFSDZHA4aE_7SSw8CyKCccWF4Dfj0KDQ_A8UB-hI/pub

I think players just want something to read.
Josh Parnell from Limit Theory tried that and it drove him to depression and other serious illnesses because he couldn't cut himself some slack when the day wasn't good enough in his opinion. To each his own and personally I wouldn't try to fix something that works. (Especially when writing a daily dev-log can easily cut a couple of hours of work each weeks if something interesting happens)

...
Scratch that, I'm pretty sure it can be done in advance for 0.7:
from 20/08/2015 to release date:
Yeah, now I'm being a smart-ass
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: TheDTYP on August 19, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
Eeeeek! The community is getting restless!


Josh Parnell from Limit Theory tried that and it drove him to depression and other serious illnesses because he couldn't cut himself some slack when the day wasn't good enough in his opinion.

Oh yeah I followed Limit Theory very closely, we were all distraught when he vanished. I always complain about Alex's working pace (Sorry, Alex!!!) but we have it good compared to the people of LT. Sucks what happened there.

I wouldn't mind some kind of devblog, but as Alex so clearly said, it is "So not his thing"

Back to the daily checking of Blog Posts I go, peace!
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Soychi on August 19, 2015, 07:50:28 PM
Should I drop by here to say that development is very much active and ongoing? Probably should. So: development is very much active and ongoing :)


I'm kinda on the fence of preassuring for more updates and just respecting the fact that Alex is doing work, but i'd like to say I found that comment very reassuring. :) Thank you
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: StarSchulz on August 19, 2015, 09:14:56 PM
It keeps getting better in every update  ;) Just remember the longer we wait, the better everything gets.  ;D
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 20, 2015, 01:54:27 AM
Oh yeah I followed Limit Theory very closely, we were all distraught when he vanished. I always complain about Alex's working pace (Sorry, Alex!!!) but we have it good compared to the people of LT. Sucks what happened there.
Fortunately he is back on track with a new workflow. The main changes being: No daily dev-log never ever again, and a workplace out of his house.

You can also check the DSS team duo method: monthly updates. Great? Well for the past few months the coding side of the updates have been exactly this: "I coded some stuff that will be useful to the game but it's boring to talk about. Now onto the graphics..." It's indeed not interesting and time costly. You can also check how Megasphere's dev did a couple of 8h streams of himself working on the game. And surprise, it's BORING, because those things takes a awful lot of time to get together. There is no magic button that makes everything works in a snap and as he show, you can take 2 days to make 2D door opening (in this case a very cool door though).  Even a small team as the one on Kerbal Space Program (6 people on the dev side) need to have a CM in charge of collecting and formatting weekly reports, and they did said at some point that it was taking them often an hour each to write those, each week. That's 6 man-hour of work lost each week, as if one person never showed up on Fridays.

I understand why people want more updates, but frankly past a certain point in the development cycle it's a burden for small teams, does nothing but slow down the process, and is but an endless stream of "today I squashed some bugs" bullet points anyway (like RimWorld's devlogs). Given Alex is active on the forum 7/7, I'd say that's an indication enough that he is still working on the game.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Sproginator on August 20, 2015, 02:06:05 AM
I'll be honest, these kinds of threads are growing tiresome. Perhaps there should be some sort of stickied thread on the announcements subforum detailing the reasons why you don't do a devlog(to the same effect as lT, for example)

But yeah, just don't burn yourself out Alex. This is a community of friends, not just gamers. If the pressure is too much just let us know :)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Histidine on August 20, 2015, 04:22:54 AM
TJJ's idea of piping the VCS commit logs to forum or another online page would be practically free aside from the initial coding commitment, and judging from that Rimworld log it'd be just as good for the purpose as anything manually written.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Gothars on August 20, 2015, 04:31:31 AM
TJJ's idea of piping the VCS commit logs to forum or another online page would be practically free aside from the initial coding commitment, and judging from that Rimworld log it'd be just as good for the purpose as anything manually written.

I find the idea of a whole community constantly peeping over your shoulder and judging if you did enough work today pretty terrifying.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Cycerin on August 20, 2015, 04:44:07 AM
Alex doesn't owe us that. Just do something else while waiting for the update, it's a big and horrible world. I'm sure you can manage to be distracted for another few months.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 20, 2015, 05:10:47 AM
I find the idea of a whole community constantly peeping over your shoulder and judging if you did enough work today pretty terrifying.
I concur wholeheartedly! I did a bit of freelancing far from the clients some time ago, and having them checking my work every 2 days was a real pain, especially when you hit a set-back and have to justify a day where basically nothing has been done. Well, I'm no longer freelancing from home anymore...
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: TJJ on August 20, 2015, 05:13:46 AM
TJJ's idea of piping the VCS commit logs to forum or another online page would be practically free aside from the initial coding commitment, and judging from that Rimworld log it'd be just as good for the purpose as anything manually written.

Just to be crystal clear; I was joking!

Updates on progress just delay the progress itself.
The best thing we can do is to just sit back and wait.

Or better yet, get modding yourself!
With enough ingenuity there really are no bounds to how much this game can be modded!
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Linnis on August 20, 2015, 05:31:36 AM
You know what the biggest problem is?

Too much passion, no outlet. (for the followers)


Thats why I said before if it was possible to setup a easy way and a platform for players to create multiple linked missions, or maps etc. Not asking for a mission editor or something, but just a different outlet for community content.

otherwise, yall just need to chill.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Dri on August 20, 2015, 08:55:54 AM
Nah, lets be blunt and honest.

Going well over half a year, sometimes even closer to a full year, is not "the norm" (lol, Dwarf Fortress) for a vast majority of indie devs. It is a very long time to wait for just an update to one part of the game. I'll absolutely come out and say that Starsector is being developed at the speed of a half-dead finless whale - which is to say, extremely slowly. I bought into the game years ago and we've still probably only seen roughly half of the campaign completed (probably less to be honest).

I'm not going to make any more threads about it though, I got that out of my system quite some time ago as well. But, at this rate we won't be playing Starsector 1.0 until 2017! Can you imagine if this game was put out on Steam Early Access when the initial campaign went out, the amount of crying and moaning on the Steam forum? <cringe>
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Taizo Puckett on August 20, 2015, 09:09:26 AM
You know what the biggest problem is?
Too much passion, no outlet. (for the followers)
Thats why I said before if it was possible to setup a easy way and a platform for players to create multiple linked missions, or maps etc. Not asking for a mission editor or something, but just a different outlet for community content.
otherwise, yall just need to chill.

THIS is the point the devs should heed IMHO. And ignore the rest of this thread
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Talkie Toaster on August 20, 2015, 09:12:35 AM
I'm not going to make any more threads about it though, I got that out of my system quite some time ago as well. But, at this rate we won't be playing Starsector 1.0 until 2017! Can you imagine if this game was put out on Steam Early Access when the initial campaign went out, the amount of crying and moaning on the Steam forum? <cringe>
Notably why Alex has consistently shot down the idea of going on Steam!
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 20, 2015, 11:18:28 AM
Well, if Alex stick to his road-map (and there isn't any sign he won't) the next update (industry) will follow the same pattern of big update in autumn followed by a patch around the new year. The one after (player faction, exploration and all the content stuff) will probably do so too. After that the game should reach beta and the updates will probably be more frequent.

Of course I'm just a modder that read a lot the forum but don't have any insider knowledge. Still, I'd be surprise if it turn out differently.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: orost on August 20, 2015, 11:34:37 AM
Sure, the game will probably take several more years to reach a finished state, but why is that a problem? There are a lot of other things to do and other games to play in the meantime. Years is a perfectly reasonable amount of time to take to make an extremely complex open-world game when it's being worked on mostly by a single person.

If I don't get to play Starsector 1.0 until 2017 or 2018, so be it. It's not like I'm paying a monthly fee to support the development. The money I paid for the game was paid for it its then current state and it was a fair price, I'm not entitled to updates, much less prompt updates.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Dri on August 20, 2015, 01:59:07 PM
Oh, I'm not really all that bent out of shape over it. I realize Alex will develop Starsector as he pleases so any argument over this subject is rather pointless. Still, we did spend money - expecting a completed product in a reasonable length of time is a valid concern.

Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on August 20, 2015, 03:38:27 PM
I'm enjoying the periodic, flavorful, and highly entertaining blog posts. It's like a good Sunday roast: if you ate that way all the time, it wouldn't be special.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Thaago on August 20, 2015, 06:23:31 PM
Oh, I'm not really all that bent out of shape over it. I realize Alex will develop Starsector as he pleases so any argument over this subject is rather pointless. Still, we did spend money - expecting a completed product in a reasonable length of time is a valid concern.



Well, we spent money on an alpha development game by an indie team consisting primarily of 1 person. Considering how very, very many games that match that description are either complete crap, never finish, or release terrible buggy products, I'm extremely happy with the money I've spent! I've gotten more hours of entertainment out of my 10 bucks here than from pretty much anything else I've spent that much on, and I think a large part of that is how polished each release is.


...

But yeah, just don't burn yourself out Alex. This is a community of friends, not just gamers. If the pressure is too much just let us know :)

+10
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: StarSchulz on August 20, 2015, 06:36:54 PM
I almost like the long period between updates, i can recover from playing far to much starsector when a new update comes out  ;) And for the particularly long times i just allow myself to relearn the game entirely, as when the campaign was updated with the economy.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Vind on August 20, 2015, 11:52:26 PM
Quality takes time. Right now update is not finished so demanding projections then it is done is not helping anyone. These topics just create unneeded doom and gloom over already known thing - long period between updates. Any doubts about starsector development is unfounded and impolite so stop it please.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: SafariJohn on August 21, 2015, 07:17:30 AM
Quality takes time. Right now update is not finished so demanding projections then it is done is not helping anyone. These topics just create unneeded doom and gloom over already known thing - long period between updates. Any doubts about starsector development is unfounded and impolite so stop it please.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: frogbones on August 21, 2015, 07:36:58 AM
With posts like this I completely understand why this hasn't been put to steam yet. I've been following and playing this game since it's pretty much first release. The updates have been at a steady pace since then. Gives me time to play it out, get bored (boredom is a choice by the way), load a mod play it out, put the game down for a while, come back play it again. Usually by then a release is out. Play the game enjoy new content and repeat. There is  no other game like this out. Simple top down, tactical, intense yet chill, and really FUN. I'm excited, and chomping at the bit for the next release. I get all gitty when reading the blog post about the upcoming goodies! I do at times get a tiny bit frustrated at the distance between releases, but I know it will be stable and totally playable.

I know Alex, and his team through this game and how it plays, integrity. I won't question lengthy releases, or spook others into thinking this game is "dieing", history dictates other wise.

I don't like posts like this, and I seem to see more of it now the game is getting more attention. So please don't bring the baggage of being burned by other games here.

We might own the game, but we don't own Alex and his time nor does he really owe us anything. We slapped $ down to play the game how it is now, done deal. I paid $ for the game when it was barely one system, two stations, and very little content....heck fuel had absolutely no purpose. But how solid it played spoke mountains and I knew I invested into something great.

Thanks for playing.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Clockwork Owl on August 21, 2015, 11:20:32 AM
Bought the game shortly before the campaign flesh-up update. So this is my first 'a-year-of-wating'. Admittedly I'm losing patience slowly, but I have a lot of it. And things do look promising. Also considering a healthy(stable binch of new featres and no gamebreaking bugs) update requires some month for a team of few, I guess a year for one person is not that unreasonable(still it depends on what basis you judge on, yes. This is not an absolute statement)

I agree with Dri on that we would fare better with some reading materials, tho.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on August 22, 2015, 04:58:49 AM
0.7 has been in development for quite some time. While this is fine, the lack of updates on the patch notes thread is quite worrying. The last update on the main thread was on the 23rd of July and as of today (August 19th), approximately two months have passed without any updates on the development of  0.7 . Can we please get an update on this update?

i got tired of going to my favorites to browse to the updates forum page..  i made it a home screen tab...   every day i wake up thinking its my first x-mas..  every day disappointment.. alex is the father i never had because like my real dad he was never there when i needed him.

(someone has some daddy issues hehe)

but seriously.. its hard to sell this game to my eve friends when i cant answer the question "does the game still get dev support or are we buying into a dead game" i hope it goes STEAM soon because the game has potential
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Harmful Mechanic on August 22, 2015, 03:13:44 PM
You know the blog has an RSS feed, right? You can subscribe to that. And you can get email notifications of new topics in Announcements.

Relax. Nobody gets this far into a labor of love and tanks the thing without warning.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Soychi on August 22, 2015, 09:29:21 PM
0.7 has been in development for quite some time. While this is fine, the lack of updates on the patch notes thread is quite worrying. The last update on the main thread was on the 23rd of July and as of today (August 19th), approximately two months have passed without any updates on the development of  0.7 . Can we please get an update on this update?

i got tired of going to my favorites to browse to the updates forum page..  i made it a home screen tab...   every day i wake up thinking its my first x-mas..  every day disappointment.. alex is the father i never had because like my real dad he was never there when i needed him.
LOL
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Sproginator on August 23, 2015, 03:43:02 AM
You know the blog has an RSS feed, right? You can subscribe to that. And you can get email notifications of new topics in Announcements.

Relax. Nobody gets this far into a labor of love and tanks the thing without warning.

*Cough* Limit Theory *Cough*
*Cough* Starforge *Cough*

But yeah, Alex isn't one of those devs. Much love for Alex! :D
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Clockwork Owl on August 23, 2015, 05:09:11 AM
I am uncertain whether that guy behind the Limit Theory is a human being ;D  All that work alone, and even with daily/weekly feedback and monthly video O_o He even is messing around with PROCEDURALLY GENERATED stuff which as far as I know is the one hard thing to make it right.

But yeah, everyone has a style.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on August 23, 2015, 06:31:16 AM
Relax. Nobody gets this far into a labor of love and tanks the thing without warning.

i cant even begin to count how many indy games on steam literally never made it to a version 1.0

money grabbing devs. i dont think thats the case here but it is a thing.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: TheDTYP on August 23, 2015, 07:08:02 AM
I always feel bad asking about the ETA for an update. It's a very two sided situation. On one side, you're thinking "Ugh this development is taking forever, I just want to play the game or at least have an idea of what is even GOING ON in development," but then you stop and think about Alex, maybe reading these topics like "Oh come on, guys, I'm doing the best I can!"

So yes, I really REALLY would love if the update came out soon(tm)er than later, but at the same time, I'm sure Alex would love it even more than us. So you keep doing you, Alex. Long as whatever you put out is within this lifetime, I'm sure it will be a blast to play
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Alex on August 23, 2015, 08:45:49 AM
Appreciate the support here, thank you all! It really means a lot, and I'm not just saying that.

This part really jumped out:
I always feel bad asking about the ETA for an update. It's a very two sided situation. On one side, you're thinking "Ugh this development is taking forever, I just want to play the game or at least have an idea of what is even GOING ON in development," but then you stop and think about Alex, maybe reading these topics like "Oh come on, guys, I'm doing the best I can!"

So yes, I really REALLY would love if the update came out soon(tm)er than later, but at the same time, I'm sure Alex would love it even more than us. So you keep doing you, Alex. Long as whatever you put out is within this lifetime, I'm sure it will be a blast to play

It's just so true. I can't *wait* to get this release out (and, in general, for 1.0 and beyond). Totally understand why someone might get a bit impatient, though - but if it means they care about the game, I'll take it :)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on August 24, 2015, 11:55:33 AM
We just gotta kill more pirates.. thats what alex wants.. he wants us to sacrifice 10000000000000000000 pirate corpses to the digital world gods so that the update is appeased and then we can play with it.

yes..

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/988689/somebody-fire-o.gif
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 24, 2015, 05:13:38 PM
In 60sec that movie had a better space battle than the entire Star Wars movie franchise combined (not including the comics and games though, those were/are awesome)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: TheDTYP on August 24, 2015, 05:24:39 PM
In 60sec that movie had a better space battle than the entire Star Wars movie franchise combined (not including the comics and games though, those were/are awesome)

Not going off topic (but totally am) or anything, but you're insane XD

But to clarify, Firefly/Serenity is my favorite Sci Fi saga of all time

Also... so that's what our problem was? We weren't killing enough pirates? *Pops Starsector back in*
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Linnis on August 25, 2015, 07:39:23 AM
Pirates are just not pirate-y enough. If I am stuck in an inferior D-enforcer, I think conventional tactics are not going to work.

Almost a suggestion but...

instead of D alternate ships. Maybe there should be P alternate ships. Ones that are cheap and handicapped like D, but modified in certain ways to overcome their down sides.

Some stuff like... less crew/ or less logistic cost to deploy and thus AI deploys them in larger numbers? (maybe pirate officers will do that automatically?!?!)

maybe pirates variants will have more weapon mounts? so instead of getting pristine perfect armor plates they add in more weapon slots?




Pirates are more like the sheep, and patrols are like wolves. Trade fleets are the cows. Maybe it should be opposite??  :P

 
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Clockwork Owl on August 25, 2015, 10:01:50 AM
sacrifice 10000000000000000000 pirate corpses to the digital world gods

Alright... how many does that translate into per-person in this forum? *Turns Starsector on*
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Doom101 on August 26, 2015, 02:55:29 AM
Lets see thats 10 quintillion pirates... Thats going to take a long time, even if we ALL started killing pirates right now, 24/7. With 4,197  members total ( this is all time so even our banned members)

we have to EACH of us kill 239,291,696,578.1287 pirates. Keep in mind this includes Alex and David so we're going to have to pick up their slack.

For those of you who don't like reading large numbers that is 239 billion, 291 million, 696 thousand 578 point 1287  pirates


I don't think this is physically possible. Unless we somehow destroy the pirate stations which are manned by infinite pirates. But since that isn't possible. well....

Oh and i know for a fact we've had several bots sign up on these forums, unless they were completely stricken from the record the number is actually higher for all of us real people, Factor in the number of dummy accounts, people who have left, been banned, and otherwise don't count toward the total? i'd imagine the number we each have to kill is somewhere around 500 billion.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Taizo Puckett on August 26, 2015, 12:37:54 PM
We definitely need a mod for this epic mission.

First, the mod should introduce anti-pirate super-weapon: mega bomb which can instantly kill ALL pirates in the system. As a bonus, it could be a smart bomb and not kill everyone else. But not necessary.

Second, the mod should mangle with fleet spawning in order to breed pirates in Sector in large numbers before the Big Pirate Apocalypse. Unfortunately, we can't easily spawn even 1 million pirates at once (wild guess), because the game will either crash with out of memory or become so slow that you can't kill them. So the limit have to be determined empirically through testing.

Third, we'll need a ship to deliver and detonate the Bomb. A new, shiny, fearless and awesome ship. Oh, and a very tough ship to survive the explosion for the next Apocalypse.

With such mod, we can reach target body count much faster. Probably within our life-span.

Modders of the SS community, do you accept the challenge?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Clockwork Owl on August 26, 2015, 03:38:34 PM
...Or we need more people playing it.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: StarSchulz on August 27, 2015, 08:34:22 PM
Does anyone have any older versions of starsector? the buffalo pinatas may be of use here.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on August 27, 2015, 10:34:48 PM
I THINK you should be able to download it from earlier blog posts but I'm not fully sure...
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Doom101 on August 28, 2015, 05:00:06 AM
i would like to point out that the idea was pirate corpses not pirate ships, so in theory we only have to kill a fraction of the ships! Quick MATH again to the rescue.

Lets see, first we need the ships pirates use and their crew ( assuming no extra crew)

Frigates
Cerberus: 20
Hound: 10
Lasher:25
Dram:5

Destroyers
Buffalo MK II: 40
Condor: 65
Enforcer :60
Mule:40
Tarsus: 30


Cruisers
Dominator: 200
Venture: 125

Capitals

Fighters
Broadsword: 3
Talon:4
Piranha:6
Warthog:6

Please note, these are ships i remember pirates using, i haven't played in well over 6 months at this point so my memory may be sketchy, but i fired up the game to check the numbers against the codex. if i forgot any ships let me know. Oh and D variants use the same crew numbers.

Alright next we need to keep in mind this number 239,291,696,578.1287 because that is how many pirates we have to kill. Now assuming we got this perfectly and got a fleet comprised entirely of non combat ready dominators, ( thus we suffered no losses ourselves and faced no resistance)

In that situation we only have to kill 1,196,458,482.89 dominators. Personally I think that sounds much more doable. Again for those of you who don't like large numbers that is 1 billion, 196 million, 458 thousand, and 482 and 9 tenths dominator cruisers. Keeping in mind this is still the number EACH of us have to kill, all 4,197 members of this forum that have ever been, on this forum, Including any bots left in the system, and we can't rely on them to kill pirate scum.

So recalculating for the once prized pinatas of the pirate fleets

At 40 crew per buffalo that's 5,982,292,414.45  ships. That's 5 billion, 982 million, 292 thousand, and 414 and a half buffalos.


Thinking of something else here, if we allow ourselves the handicap of going back in time to previous installs we need to get a bunch of condors, versus something with high levels of energy weapon PD capability, say... an odyssey ( or several) have them hold position and just go AFK while the condors throw infinite fighter craft at us. although if we go back too far the condors may commit suicide and run into the odysseys, Also there is the small matter of not letting the odysseys roam freely to attack the condors, in theory an escort order solves that, but just like the condor's AI we all know how reliable that used to be. ( okay maybe not all of us, but MOST of us)

Although one final wrinkle, if we were able to spend 1 second killing each buffalo ( which is not even remotely going to happen) And we never slept, EVER again, and took no breaks for food, water, loved ones, or bodily reasons. 5 billion seconds is 158 years. ( the full number btw is 189.57 years for all them buffalo)

Also keep in mind that this does NOT account for escape pods. or captured pirates, ( and we can't jettison them anymore)

Okay so that isn't going to happen unless we quadruple our player base1 ( preferably more if we want to get this done this decade)
What if we throw the MAXIMUM amount of crew onto each ship? does that help at all? Well the only ones i'm going to bother listing here are the buffalo and the Venture, because it has the highest max crew of all pirate ships, coming in at an incredibly small 350. As for the buffalo? well it's maximum is 40. Yep, no extra room there! so the venture is the only number here that matters.

So once again we recalculate for the venture stuffed full of pirates. And the number of the hour is... * drumroll* 683,690,561.65

Hey look! we're no longer in the billions! yay. So 683 million, 690 thousand, and 561 and 6 tenth ventures. Now if we can kill each of them in 1 second a piece with no downtime between we're only looking at 21.6 years!

You know what though? i don't like it. we can do better! hmm.. what if we took all the boxes out of the ventures cargo holds and stuffed it full of more pirates2? So assuming we can just pack them all in there getting 1 pirate per cargo unit that is another 500 pirates for a total of 850 pirates per venture!

So once again we calculate for that, and we get 281,519,643.03 OR 281 million, 519 thousand, 643 ventures Hooray we finally got it under decade! coming in at 8.9 years if the same restrictions apply.
 
I'm incapable of thinking up any new ways to get that number lower. i mean i already broke the game's rules by replacing cargo for crew. and we're also breaking the speed record for killing a venture by a nearly infinite amount. We're also going for broke with our biggest, possible ship for the pirates. Now if they use Atlas freighters that is a different story, but to my knowledge pirates have no capital ships.



1: This is based on the forum's total members, the only way to know for sure how many players we have at our disposal is for alex to tell us the exact number of copies of SS sold. and he won't do that. ( i assume he won't that would probably give away too much personal info about his finances)
2: yes i know this breaks the game's rules.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Clockwork Owl on August 28, 2015, 06:58:34 AM
I'm afraid we went too far off-topic...
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Zelnik on August 28, 2015, 08:24:33 AM
BACK ON TOPIC

When is the update being released?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: SafariJohn on August 28, 2015, 08:59:19 AM
SoonTM

Pestering Alex won't make it come any faster.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on August 28, 2015, 09:37:20 AM
BACK ON TOPIC
When is the update being released?
Precisely 15min after Alex click on "upload".
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Clockwork Owl on August 29, 2015, 05:45:30 AM
BACK ON TOPIC
When is the update being released?
Precisely 15min after Alex click on "upload".
15 minutes? Where did the number came from?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on August 29, 2015, 05:56:17 AM
I would have said it will take alex 12 parsecs to upload the files.. is a persec a unit of time or distance?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Doom101 on August 29, 2015, 07:51:28 AM
I would have said it will take alex 12 parsecs to upload the files.. is a persec a unit of time or distance?

Parsec is distance, the reason you might think otherwise is the kessel run the reason that han solo said that his ship can make the kessel run in less than twelve parsecs is because the area is heavily laden with black holes (apparently) so in theory the faster a ship is, the closer to a straight line it can go. If your wondering though a parsec is "about"  3.26 light years, so if alex had to transmit the file 12 parsec using conventional means... well. that would take a VERY long time. Unless he has secretly developed the FTL communications from SS.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Plantissue on August 30, 2015, 05:03:25 AM
I've always taken it to mean that Han Solo was just talking rubbish in an attempt to sound impressive to sell his service, which was why he was regarded as untrustworthy.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Doom101 on August 30, 2015, 07:07:23 AM
I've always taken it to mean that Han Solo was just talking rubbish in an attempt to sound impressive to sell his service, which was why he was regarded as untrustworthy.

Not to get too much further off topic ( i've done enough de-railing to this thread already) but that is basically what it was. the black hole thing was a retcon by a one george lucas to make Han sound more like he knew what he was talking about and definitely not to hide that Mr. Lucas had no idea what a parsec was originally.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Ratheden on August 30, 2015, 05:20:02 PM
BACK ON TOPIC
When is the update being released?
Precisely 15min after Alex click on "upload".

Looking forward to that moment, but don't let the presure get to you Alex.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Linnis on September 05, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
I just had a dream where I was flying in a frigate,
I came around the back of a friendly Onslaught,
I witnessed the might of the battle cruiser with my eyes,
Enemy ships being torn to shreds across the horizon,
The captain of the ship was my best officer.

Oh yes, then I woke up
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Taizo Puckett on September 05, 2015, 02:12:38 PM
across the horizon
WAT
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Plantissue on September 05, 2015, 02:16:35 PM
Poor man. Dreaming in naval analogies.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: TJJ on September 05, 2015, 03:03:51 PM
across the horizon
WAT

Sensor horizon.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on September 06, 2015, 06:51:53 AM
Tomorrow is LABOR DAY in the states.. where we celebrate hardwork and take a day off.. alex.. hoist the colors.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Linnis on September 06, 2015, 09:07:59 AM
Well in the dream ships could not go up an down, and everything was on the same plane.

What you expect?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Linnis on September 14, 2015, 02:34:29 AM
btw are you going to go from 0.7 directly to 0.8?
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Gothars on September 14, 2015, 05:18:50 AM
Probably a 0.7.X balance patch first.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: pigreko on September 15, 2015, 12:33:46 AM
10 euros we are going to see an "update on the update of the update" thread in the next few months.

Yeah Alex, you should just come here each few weeks and post something like this: yep, still alive and working. <3 peace.

And, well, I think I'll just sit and wait, pretty much satisfied by what is just a pre alpha... which already sucked up more hours per euros than any other game I ever bought. Funny story.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on September 16, 2015, 04:42:17 PM
Probably a 0.7.X balance patch first.

gotta launch 7.0 before you can talk about 7.????? or even 8
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: kazi on September 16, 2015, 05:25:43 PM
Probably a 0.7.X balance patch first.

gotta launch 7.0 before you can talk about 7.????? or even 8

Alex typically releases a big update, sees how people like it/abuse the new mechanics, then releases a bugfix/balance patch a month later. The only real exceptions to this release schedule are if something really game-breaking somehow pops up and he needs to send out some emergency patch. This isn't set in stone or anything, it's just what has happened with prior releases.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: BHunterSEAL on September 19, 2015, 01:17:31 AM
He posted yesterday (something tech support related) so I assume he's still actively working on the game. I'm not worried!
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on September 24, 2015, 04:42:42 PM
From and including: Monday, February 16, 2015  (release date of 0.65.2a)
To and including: Thursday, September 24, 2015 (present day of post)
Result: 221 days (total days since)

the longer it takes the bigger the patch!
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: The Soldier on September 24, 2015, 04:58:01 PM
This is certainly going to be one of the most impressive and large scale updates the game has seen since the launch of the Campaign, that much I can say.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Linnis on September 24, 2015, 06:44:00 PM
From and including: Monday, February 16, 2015  (release date of 0.65.2a)
To and including: Thursday, September 24, 2015 (present day of post)
Result: 221 days (total days since)

the longer it takes the bigger the patch!

Just a few more months...
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Xeroshiva1029 on October 06, 2015, 08:29:01 PM
From and including: Monday, February 16, 2015  (release date of 0.65.2a)
To and including: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 (present day of post)
Result: 236 days (total days since)

i updated the clock above in the quote. someone poke alex to see if hes even alive.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Uomoz on October 06, 2015, 08:33:31 PM
From and including: Monday, February 16, 2015  (release date of 0.65.2a)
To and including: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 (present day of post)
Result: 236 days (total days since)

i updated the clock above in the quote. someone poke alex to see if hes even alive.

Alex blogged the progress like 3 days ago, go check it out in the appropriate section :)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Zelnik on October 06, 2015, 09:12:43 PM
Yeah I have long since lost faith in this game ever getting completed, it's more now watching in awe people try to believe that anything tangible will come of it.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Doogie on October 06, 2015, 09:58:05 PM
Yea, its not like it has a regular series of massive updates and an active developer giving us updates as he makes features or anything.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Adraius on October 06, 2015, 11:34:02 PM
Yeah I have long since lost faith in this game ever getting completed, it's more now watching in awe people try to believe that anything tangible will come of it.
Damn, the leap of logic between the first and second half of that sentence.  I myself am a little uncertain this game will reach feature-completion, at least within the time frame that I'm interested in and able to play it.  And yet, I still bought it three weeks ago knowing that information going in, because it has a pretty darn tangible tactical battle system - already the best one in existence, in my opinion, and that alone plus the basics of the campaign layer was definitely worth my money.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on October 07, 2015, 12:16:24 AM
Given that after this 0.7 update the only major gameplay feature completely missing is Industry, I can't really understand why the doubts now (granted that's quite a large bite as new feature goes but still)... The rest is only content and expansion, and probably some procedural stuff, meaning the game may very well enter Beta in a bit more than a year.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Dark.Revenant on October 07, 2015, 12:42:51 AM
Merely calling it "Industry" is an understatement.  "Industry" involves a total overhaul of the skill system, a significant rework of the sector economy, markets, and overall game flow, a large amount of additional content (including, most likely, Exploration, which would have to tie into Industry).  And then you get all the Industry-related features on top of that.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on October 07, 2015, 03:15:39 AM
Of course it will be the biggest single feature in the game since Combat itself. As for Exploration, I wouldn't call it a feature in istelf but rather the by-product of the Sensors, Industry, Mission and a Codex rework. I don't think it needs that much specific mechanics solely for itself, but rather a lot of content.

I'm not trying to diminish the amount of work left, but rather pointing out the odd mind process behind declaring this game will never be finished when it's actually close to be feature complete in term of ticking boxes. Starsector could very well enter Beta in a bit more than a year...
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Zelnik on October 07, 2015, 09:53:30 AM
Yes and no. I supported this a while ago, and I admit, I wish I could give them more money, the game is great and I love the mechanics (I just wish there were more ships to play with, and that some of the ships already in the game could be implemented). However, I also know that no updates for months (and months...and months... and months) forces the gameplay to become stale, and every possible update has to somehow wow the player again.

there is still a LOT to do, but at the same time, we can't actually see that the work is being done.

I am a skeptic for any game that I support. I don't trust the developer until a product has been delivered (watching both indy devs and AAA devs deliver half finished garbage over the last four years has destroyed any hope of trust).

So, yeah, until I see progress beyond a blog post, I assume that nothing is being done. Trust me, I want this game and I like the dev, but I don't trust him.

Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Thaago on October 07, 2015, 10:25:35 AM
Well thats uncharitable of you :P. Alex has never missed a deadline and has consistently put out polished, low bug releases that always include exactly what is in the blog posts. What could he do to be more trustworthy?

I'm also in the camp that would like more releases because I want to play with the shiny new toys, but I also understand that putting out a quality release means a lot of work. Its more efficient to do releases in 'packages'.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Gothars on October 07, 2015, 10:51:51 AM
So, yeah, until I see progress beyond a blog post, I assume that nothing is being done. Trust me, I want this game and I like the dev, but I don't trust him.


There's such a thing as being too cautious. In a case where there is on the one hand a history of reliable updates in the past and on the other hand ample evidence of ongoing work (videos, pictures), assuming all of that to be fabrication requires willful, active disbelief.
Well, I can understand if one has no absolute faith that the game will be finished (feature complete and well rounded), but I do believe that Alex will do his best to get it there. I do trust in Alex, just not in the free flowing filaments of fate.

That said, I think some small content-updates along the way with new ships, weapons, portraits, sounds and so on could sweeten the waiting time for a new feature-update enormously.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Tartiflette on October 07, 2015, 11:01:03 AM
[...] forces the gameplay to become stale, and every possible update has to somehow wow the player again.[...]
And that's in a good part why Alex put so much emphasis on the modding. Mods can "push the enveloppe", to use his own words, of what is possible within the game, create new stuf and maintain the interest of playing it between updates. If you haven't (witch I suspect from the sound of you post), you should try Nexerelin, SS+ and a couple of vanilla-friendly factions...
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Cycerin on October 07, 2015, 11:03:24 AM
Quote
there is still a LOT to do, but at the same time, we can't actually see that the work is being done.

(http://i.imgur.com/LOjDjtV.png)
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Cycerin on October 07, 2015, 11:07:55 AM
*surveys enormous number of blog posts with media* "Ugh... when is Alex going to get off his ass and WORK on this game again"
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: The Soldier on October 07, 2015, 11:19:12 AM
Yes and no. I supported this a while ago, and I admit, I wish I could give them more money, the game is great and I love the mechanics (I just wish there were more ships to play with, and that some of the ships already in the game could be implemented). However, I also know that no updates for months (and months...and months... and months) forces the gameplay to become stale, and every possible update has to somehow wow the player again.

there is still a LOT to do, but at the same time, we can't actually see that the work is being done.

I am a skeptic for any game that I support. I don't trust the developer until a product has been delivered (watching both indy devs and AAA devs deliver half finished garbage over the last four years has destroyed any hope of trust).  From there, you'll also see Alex post that he very much anticipates a release of the patch before the end of the year (taking into consideration the amount of giddiness he had with that tweet, I anticipate it coming out much sooner than December - early to mid October is my educated prediction).

So, yeah, until I see progress beyond a blog post, I assume that nothing is being done. Trust me, I want this game and I like the dev, but I don't trust him.


Well, every man to his own I guess.  You can always check out Alex's twitter for some nifty little GIFs of the current patch if you want something more tangible.  The new sensor system is showcased in a rather funny way, the coronal and aurora effects are seen, and other interesting tidbits.  Also, on his twitter you'll find someone asking if a patch will be released before the end of the year - Alex responded with a tweet saying that he very much anticipates one before the year is over.  Taking into consideration the amount of glee he had in that tweet, I suspect it'll be much sooner, possibly in early or mid October.

https://twitter.com/amosolov

By the way, this isn't some Kickstarter or fundraiser crap that came from a guy wanted to make a quick buck, so have more hope in it than those. :P The game started development 5 years ago and hasn't stopped since.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Zelnik on October 07, 2015, 11:08:55 PM
thanks, I will observe the twitter feed.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: Schwartz on October 08, 2015, 05:28:01 AM
Dude, if he were untrustworthy, you'd see him on Steam, on Kickstarter and similar projects that are all notorious for raking in the dough and then falling short on delivery. Starsector's model is fairly straightforward. You pay for the game as-is, future updates are expected but remain a bonus (!). You're also looking at a tiny team here. Under these circumstances I think the game is doing fine.
Title: Re: Update on the Update
Post by: SteelSoldier on October 08, 2015, 07:05:38 AM
 Honestly I would love extra ships, more variety is always good.