Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: hairrorist on February 15, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
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It would be really neat if we could add flight decks using the hull mod system. They would, of course, take a large number of points, but it would enable us to refit a ship with drastically reduced firepower but with a fighter docking station. Would be hella useful either when assembling fast fleets, or dynamically responding to situations--like capturing a large number of fighters after a battle, or to respond to an enemy fleet with a greater force of fighters but no flight decks. More options would be nice!
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i like this idea.. also could bridge that gap between 1 flight deck and 3 :P a mid range carrier larger than a destroyer but smaller than a capital ship and not a multi role cruiser.
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Agreed!
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On this note I am hoping that the player will given a lot more control over the ship fittings. I'd like to be able to set shields to certain directions to (for example) put 180 starboard shields on a ship and fit it out for massive broadsides. You can technically do this with omni but it is a little fidgety and I am sure there is some disadvantage to omni...right?
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I also like this idea. It could cost like 25 points and be limited to large ships, but it would add a lot more flexibility with your fleet. You could strip down a destroyer so it had minimal armament but a flight deck. That would be neat.
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On this note I am hoping that the player will given a lot more control over the ship fittings. I'd like to be able to set shields to certain directions to (for example) put 180 starboard shields on a ship and fit it out for massive broadsides. You can technically do this with omni but it is a little fidgety and I am sure there is some disadvantage to omni...right?
Mostly just that it only raises from the front, so if you are getting shot from behind you will have to turn around to use your shields. So you are more susceptible to flanking.
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Hmm, currently all flight decks are graphically represented on the host ship, would not having this graphical place for the fighters to land bother you in game? Not a huge deal, but would slightly break immersion for me, pretty cool idea though. I'd personally rather have a mini flight deck that replaces a weapon though, that way it could show up on the ship. :)
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cool idea but lots of art for the devs and if this was implemented why would we need carriers
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I'm pretty sure they will add more carriers as well. Something between the condor and astral is desperately needed. And the Venture and Odyssey don't count. :) I mean dedicated carriers.
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I'm pretty sure they will add more carriers as well. Something between the condor and astral is desperately needed. And the Venture and Odyssey don't count. :) I mean dedicated carriers.
Agreed! A cruiser with two flight decks would round that out nicely.
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I think some weapon mount like addons would be nice. Both for flight decks and maybe inefficient shield generators <-- strap a shield generator to the front of the ship and hope for the best. Or is that not possible for the engine to handle? As I know shield stats are part of the ships themselves.
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cool idea but lots of art for the devs and if this was implemented why would we need carriers
Well, the art assets could be fitted right on top of turrets or something. They're just superimposed on the hull, so why not some little runways or whatever?
Carriers would be much more powerful than these jury rigged ships. If the flight deck mod takes most of the points, then the ship wont be able to have many weapons or hull mods or whatever. The regular carriers would have the advantage in that case, but they're more expensive.
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I'm ok with the number of flight decks around, I assume they're fixed for balance purposes. A hullmod to add an electromagnetic catapult would be VERY cool though, just to give your fighters a little kick in the ass on their way.
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Sounds good :)
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Well, I think that adding a flight deck should be more expensive for smaller craft, as larger craft could presumably accommodate an impromptu landing strip more easily.
Also, I am in favor of a cheaper hullmod to add hanger space to craft. It is not out of the question to assume that one could (at some cost) attach a docking rig for a couple small ships onto the side of a ship (again, cheaper for larger ships), that is used out of combat.
Also, fighter repair really needs a reform, as you can repair them in combat at record speeds, but not when out of combat. Fighter repair in combat, IMO, should be a quick-fix deal, and not fully repair fighters, or fully replenish the number in the wing. It should take longer if the wing is missing members, and the new members should be not at full capacity/ammo. If they wanted a better repair job or were critically wounded, the wing could always land again for more repairs. We don't want to have other wings waiting forever because the Talon wing needed 5 more fighters, but we don't want to harshly limit the repair job.
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Also, fighter repair really needs a reform, as you can repair them in combat at record speeds, but not when out of combat. Fighter repair in combat, IMO, should be a quick-fix deal, and not fully repair fighters, or fully replenish the number in the wing. It should take longer if the wing is missing members, and the new members should be not at full capacity/ammo. If they wanted a better repair job or were critically wounded, the wing could always land again for more repairs. We don't want to have other wings waiting forever because the Talon wing needed 5 more fighters, but we don't want to harshly limit the repair job.
I still believe that any destroyed ships in a wing should remain so for the duration of combat, only replenished outside of combat. The idea that hangers have 'unlimited' amounts of extra craft available to any wing is silly in my opinion... it leaves me asking why I can't deploy 30 wings of broadswords when I know I have the extra crew, instead of repairing a couple wings of broadswords say... 15-30 times. Repairs should only be done to surviving wings in combat.
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I totally disagree. I think that the system of repairing, replenishing, resupplying the fighters is totally fine while in combat. Strike craft are weak, and would be too much of a liability in combat if they couldn't reinforce their numbers.
I think you could go two different directions.
1: Make it so your strike craft are automatically fully repaired after a battle (provided they weren't destroyed).
2: Have a limited number of replacement craft on the carriers. Perhaps this is based on your supplies? In any case, at a certain point your strike craft would not be reinforced mid-battle.
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I think this idea would work well, it would be much like how in WW2 they turned cargo ships into crude seaplane carriers that could launch the planes but had to use a crane to take them out of the water. Maybe do something like that, only have the launch pad being fast while having landing time increased to 200% or have repair time take longer etc.
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I totally disagree. I think that the system of repairing, replenishing, resupplying the fighters is totally fine while in combat. Strike craft are weak, and would be too much of a liability in combat if they couldn't reinforce their numbers.
I think you could go two different directions.
1: Make it so your strike craft are automatically fully repaired after a battle (provided they weren't destroyed).
2: Have a limited number of replacement craft on the carriers. Perhaps this is based on your supplies? In any case, at a certain point your strike craft would not be reinforced mid-battle.
All that would need to happen is to modify the AI of fighters/bombers to be even more careful... use more hit and run strategies rather than "I sit on top of your ship and pew pew till my friends are dead!" (for some reason it had an outrageous french accent in my head :P) Make them do more strafing runs and such so that they make use of the carriers more. I get by just fine in any battle having a single flight deck and lots of fighters/bombers because I position my carrier out of the fight and it can churning out replacements to everything. It would amake carrier groups more reliant on more flight decks to keep their fighter groups 100% effective, especially because you wouldn't want to risk having to wait for an opening to get your wings repaired in some situations like you can do now... and it gives fighters/bombers an added vulnerability that would keep them more in line with the other class ships. As it stands, armor doesn't get repaired during battle (despite having obvious crew and supplies) and neither does hull. If fighters can magically respawn new wingmen, then other ships should be able to have some sort of passive hull/armor repair during combat as well.
I do agree that a set limited number of replacement crafts would also work, but I'm not sure how well that could be implemented.
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In terms of repairs, I believe that repair drones are in the works, to repair larger ships during battle. I'm pretty sure there are even images of them in the Starfarer files. The image is attached below.
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I agree, BUT only ships with pre-existing flight decks should be able to ad more via hull mods.
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Hey guys, first time poster here.
The idea of having flight decks as weapon mounts made me think. What if Flight Decks were treated as weapons. If you assigned a specific wing of fighters/bombers to each flight deck, you could use the appropriate 'Flight Deck' weapon to target enemy ships. First click fires a targeting laser and the ships launch and fly at the target, second click would call them back. If the target dies or you don't target anything the ships simply launch and take up defensive positions around the carrier.
It would be an interesting way to make carriers feel more, um... 'carriery' and give squadrons of fighters a home both during downtime and in the overworld. As a downside it would mean that they're taking up a spot whenever they're not deployed (you'd potentially want to leave a flight deck free for ad-hoc repairs on other groups) and it would mean that initially they'd start within your ship rather than pre-deployed and ready to go.
Not sure if this would be the best idea given the emphasis on player as pilot rather than supreme-coordinator, but it may be quite good way to increase player control over their subbordinates while remaining in combat, along with making carriers a bit more of a unique experience to pilot as a player (personally I find them a bit boring unless they're decked out as an attack ship rather than a carrier). It may require alternative/extra key bindings though given that a 3 flight deck ship would pretty much fill up your available slots from the off.
(Just noticed something similar was mentioned in http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=815.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=815.0), but it doesn't focus on using them AS a weapon in itself so I'll leave it up.
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Hey guys, first time poster here.
The idea of having flight decks as weapon mounts made me think. What if Flight Decks were treated as weapons. If you assigned a specific wing of fighters/bombers to each flight deck, you could use the appropriate 'Flight Deck' weapon to target enemy ships. First click fires a targeting laser and the ships launch and fly at the target, second click would call them back. If the target dies or you don't target anything the ships simply launch and take up defensive positions around the carrier.
It would be an interesting way to make carriers feel more, um... 'carriery' and give squadrons of fighters a home both during downtime and in the overworld. As a downside it would mean that they're taking up a spot whenever they're not deployed (you'd potentially want to leave a flight deck free for ad-hoc repairs on other groups) and it would mean that initially they'd start within your ship rather than pre-deployed and ready to go.
Not sure if this would be the best idea given the emphasis on player as pilot rather than supreme-coordinator, but it may be quite good way to increase player control over their subbordinates while remaining in combat, along with making carriers a bit more of a unique experience to pilot as a player (personally I find them a bit boring unless they're decked out as an attack ship rather than a carrier). It may require alternative/extra key bindings though given that a 3 flight deck ship would pretty much fill up your available slots from the off.
(Just noticed something similar was mentioned in http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=815.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=815.0), but it doesn't focus on using them AS a weapon in itself so I'll leave it up.
It sounds like a very plausible way of refining carrier's role in the game. Of course, the downside would be that you can no longer have carrier-less squadrons.
Just to make sure I understood your concept correctly, what you are describing is basically turning all fighter/bombers into a form of long range missiles that flies smart, cost crews and will return?
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I don't know about having to paint the target, but I've mentioned that electromagnetic catapults to fling your fighters at the enemy would be REAL cool. A great way to get Piranha bombers and Daggers up close to the enemy much faster than they'd normally go.
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Hey guys, first time poster here.
[snip]
I like that idea, it would give you control of your carriers...but it does go against the whole "passive command" that this game has going for it. It would be really fun to be able to use your strike craft like missiles though. Somehow it would be nice to have a more direct role with your strike craft if you control a carrier.
I guess the middle ground would be drone craft. They dont have weapons but use their short range drones to kill stuff...but we already have the Wasp squadron...so idk. I like the idea of a drone frigate/cruiser though. It makes me think of Homeworld.
[snip]
... "I sit on top of your ship and pew pew till my friends are dead!" (for some reason it had an outrageous french accent in my head :P) ...
Is it weird that I also read that with a silly French accent too?
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I personally love carriers, but the ones that are there are so sluggish it makes chasing groups that wont destroy you difficult. I got bored and spliced some carriers into existence with resources already present. Which is a first for me in terms of motivation.
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I personally love carriers, but the ones that are there are so sluggish it makes chasing groups that wont destroy you difficult. I got bored and spliced some carriers into existence with resources already present. Which is a first for me in terms of motivation.
The akira looks awesome.
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A neat change would be to bind fighter wings to carriers, with the number deployed depending on something like hangar space. That way, the player's limited to the number of ships they can replenish each fight by the capacity of the carrier to carry spare ships, and only at the carrier specific to that wing. So, someone may assign a Condor to carry Broadswords, allowing destroyed Broadswords to be replaced completely there in combat (as limited hangar space provides), but non-Broadswords could only be repaired, not replenished. In that way, the number of squadrons fielded at a time would be dependent on the carrier's capacity, not the number of independent groupings as it is now. For example, rather than buying two separate Broadsword wings, one would just bind Broadswords to a carrier, and deploy two wings from the carrier in combat only (or however many ships as hangar space provides). Wings not bound to a carrier would just act as they do now, only without the ability to be replaced during combat, and wings in fleets without carriers would be irreplaceable without one.
Kind of a difficult idea to explain, but I think it would make much more sense in-game than the current system.
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If there would be a hull mod for creating more flight decks, I think it should be just limited to only carriers. Plus, it should be just only one hull mod upgrade for one flight deck and it would have to cost A LOT of ordinance pts. This way, no new sprites would have to be made to existing ships that already have flight decks and no new sprites would have to be made to ships that do not already have flight decks. However, the idea to implement new ships that are dedicated carriers would be a nice touch.
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Also, fighter repair really needs a reform, as you can repair them in combat at record speeds, but not when out of combat.
You can with sufficient hangar space.