Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: Noilei on October 03, 2013, 02:33:37 AM

Title: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 03, 2013, 02:33:37 AM
Hey guys

I think that ship aesthetic customisation should be implemented into the game. I have found that when assembling fleets with a factionally diverse selection of ships it looks... shabby. An in-station armor style/paint modification system would be awesome. I understand that he ship sprites are simply stored as .png files, such a system would not be too complex if this is the case. Even a simple hue slider would suffice. Additionally if you could have the name of the ship written on its hull accompanied by a fleet logo it would add that extra layer of personalisation. Of course all this would cost credits and perhaps require you to capture a ship of the desired style e.g. If one wishes to have a sexy advanced tech look on an onslaught he would have to capture a paragon etc.

Also, why no planned multiplayer  ??? A minecraft style world based system would be so damn cool! Battling your friends' fleet, conquering his worlds, enslaving his people! Yes please!
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gothars on October 03, 2013, 03:02:55 AM
Hi Noilei, welcome to the forum :)


Painting ships sounds like a good idea, but it was tried and didn't work well. You can see an example here. (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2888.msg41083#msg41083)
I think that your fleet looks a bit "shabby" and thrown together fits pretty good into the post-apocalyptic game lore. It's not an age for military parades of neat and sparkling new ships anymore.

Why there will be no multiplayer is answered in the FAQ, I'll just quote here:

Quote
Will there be a multiplayer mode?
No. There are two main reasons – one is that MP and SP often have conflicting design goals. In brief, what makes a SP game fun may not work for an MP game, and vice versa. The other reason is the amount of time and effort to add it – which is very significant. We’d rather focus on making the SP as good as we can, instead of spreading our efforts too thin.

I'd really be damn cool, but no use in dreaming here.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: mostmodest on October 03, 2013, 03:06:58 AM
Also, why no planned multiplayer  ??? A minecraft style world based system would be so damn cool! Battling your friends' fleet, conquering his worlds, enslaving his people! Yes please!

Don't quote me on this one, but I'm fairly sure that MP was a waaaaaaaaaaay down the track plan, if at all, because it would be too much work and it seems to be more of a "polish" job than anything else.

EDIT: ninja'd by Gothars...
EDIT2: Would it be feasible to think that a "ship painting" mod could be made?
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 03, 2013, 05:32:25 AM
I see, i havn't read too much into the lore as i foolishly assumed there was none! If that's the case then i shall embrace it  :). Well thank you for your input gentlemen (I presume). Its a pleasure to be part of this community
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Thule on October 03, 2013, 09:26:40 AM
Also, why no planned multiplayer  ??? A minecraft style world based system would be so damn cool! Battling your friends' fleet, conquering his worlds, enslaving his people! Yes please!

Don't quote me on this one, but I'm fairly sure that MP was a waaaaaaaaaaay down the track plan, if at all, because it would be too much work and it seems to be more of a "polish" job than anything else.

EDIT: ninja'd by Gothars...
EDIT2: Would it be feasible to think that a "ship painting" mod could be made?
shadow is working on something like this, but i don't know how he's coming along
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: PCCL on October 03, 2013, 10:26:17 AM
I think the problem is that theres a distinct epoch that each ship belongs to, thus when ships are with members of the same epoch, they feel like they belong and by extension if they're in different epochs, their differences are highlighted

More ships that "bridge" the epochs would help, a broadsword is at home both in a lowtech and midline fleet, as is a mule or a venture whereas an apogee is between the midline and hightech, all these ships both provide a middle ground between epochs and make the entire fleet seem more coherent imo
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gotcha! on October 03, 2013, 10:52:34 AM
Just dropping in here.
Maybe it's an idea to have an 'overlay' for every ship, which can be changed in colour, rather than the hulls themselves?

Spoiler
(http://avatar.home.xs4all.nl/crap/bashbash.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Alfalfa on October 03, 2013, 02:43:51 PM
Just dropping in here.
Maybe it's an idea to have an 'overlay' for every ship, which can be changed in colour, rather than the hulls themselves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKayLq1d5Bs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKayLq1d5Bs)
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 04:43:22 AM
Well I've found that  simply changing the hue can make the ships seem as though they belong together. On account of the most striking differences being the colour of the hulls.

E.g.
Spoiler
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2iub7sz.png) (http://i41.tinypic.com/neujcz.png)
[close]

Not Perfect, but its simple and can make quite a difference. I just think that even if the society has collapsed people will want to paint their ships.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gothars on October 04, 2013, 04:50:55 AM
Sorry, but to me that looks like an impostor!

I think the color is part of the identity of a ship class, changing it completely like that is too much.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 05:02:14 AM
Sorry, but to me that looks like an impostor!

I think the color is part of the identity of a ship class, changing it completely like that is too much.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I just like unity within a fleet, which i suppose does not belong in a chaos ravaged universe. I guess i'm looking for a way for player to create an identity for herself/himself, after all the pirates have their style of ship, the hegemony theirs and the tri-tachs theirs. If they can have unity why not me :)
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gotcha! on October 04, 2013, 05:04:08 AM
Striping or a self-designed logo would be enough to personalize your ship. Painting it like it belongs to another faction is too much in my opinion. :)
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 05:16:15 AM
Striping or a self-designed logo would be enough to personalize your ship. Painting it like it belongs to another faction is too much in my opinion. :)

Yes indeed, I was just throwing ideas out there :) The overlay idea is far more viable and befitting. Similar to the ship customisation  in Homeworld 2 (Starts to purr)
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gotcha! on October 04, 2013, 05:33:38 AM
Yes, adding your own logo on the ships in Homeworld 2 was awesome.
I had my own ships personalized with this guy:
(http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.14500482.8910/cp,220x200,s,ffffff-pad,220x200,ffffff.u3.jpg)
Now if that doesn't strike fear into the enemy's heart, then what will.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Grug on October 04, 2013, 05:36:06 AM
Spacebourne assault potato wings.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 05:59:58 AM
Yes, adding your own logo on the ships in Homeworld 2 was awesome.
I had my own ships personalized with this guy:
(http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.14500482.8910/cp,220x200,s,ffffff-pad,220x200,ffffff.u3.jpg)
Now if that doesn't strike fear into the enemy's heart, then what will.


Max is absolutely terrifying :) Talking about Homeworld, that Higaran Descendants mod is amazing!
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gotcha! on October 04, 2013, 06:24:46 AM
You're too kind. :D Now let's get back on topic! ^_^'
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: mostmodest on October 04, 2013, 06:38:05 AM
If this does get made into a thing, and I'm talking waaaaaaaay down the track near the end of the final touchups and polish for the game, it could be something as easy as a pre-game sprite editor (a really basic editor with coloring being the only change). Sure, there's going to be people who won't use it because they won't need it; but the people who do want to edit their ships' color can do so to their heart's content. You could even edit the sprites right now if you wanted to by simply using Photoshop, but a Starsector ship color-er doesn't sound too bad for a final update.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 06:52:20 AM
If this does get made into a thing, and I'm talking waaaaaaaay down the track near the end of the final touchups and polish for the game, it could be something as easy as a pre-game sprite editor (a really basic editor with coloring being the only change). Sure, there's going to be people who won't use it because they won't need it; but the people who do want to edit their ships' color can do so to their heart's content. You could even edit the sprites right now if you wanted to by simply using Photoshop, but a Starsector ship color-er doesn't sound too bad for a final update.

Agreed, it's not for everyone but should be available nonetheless. If Alex is going to add in more ships (Is he?) then it shouldn't be a problem. For me, it comes down to variety. I want a super carrier (Atlas), but i want it to look like a tach ship etc.. I just want MOAR! MOAAAAAAR! please
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: xenoargh on October 04, 2013, 07:51:44 AM
Doing this would be pretty "easy" per ship, but would be a pretty big expansion of the content.

What would be a lot easier is to simply do a mask layer over each ship with various amounts of translucency, allowing for hue-slider behaviors for "paint stripes" and logos, etc.

Having logos like was suggested would be possible but rather difficult to make look good; the ships aren't 3D so we can't just stick a decal on it, so finding a place that's big enough / flat enough would be difficult to say the least.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: TheHengeProphet on October 04, 2013, 04:13:56 PM
Sorry, but to me that looks like an impostor!

I think the color is part of the identity of a ship class, changing it completely like that is too much.
Well I've found that  simply changing the hue can make the ships seem as though they belong together. On account of the most striking differences being the colour of the hulls.

E.g.
Spoiler
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2iub7sz.png) (http://i41.tinypic.com/neujcz.png)
[close]

Not Perfect, but its simple and can make quite a difference. I just think that even if the society has collapsed people will want to paint their ships.

I actually think that adjustment looks rather good.  The option to paint an entire ship would be rather nice, in comparison to just slapping a stripe or two on it.  Where is the logic in only being able to paint a stripe? What, are the gods themselves going to slip out of hyperspace and take your hull-plating away because they don't like that you painted over the original paint scheme?

Really, though, being able to paint an entire ship would allow for a greater sense of congruity within a player's fleet, and even allow for an easier time making "civilian" or refitted versions of ships, much like how subfactions (such as pirates and rebels) were done in Escape Velocity.

I know, I know, but it's hard to avoid bringing up EV when this game parallels in so many ways!
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 07:32:59 PM
Well if it isn't forced upon the player then there is no reason such a simple modification shouldn't be implemented. Some like it, some don't. If the option is there its only going to make the people who want it happier.Why not have stripes and hull colouration! I just feel as though we need a way to make our fleets, our fleets.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: PCCL on October 04, 2013, 07:40:56 PM
ooh, now that's a sexy paragon if I ever seen one

Just played around with some hue adjustments for other ships... That actually works pretty well...

not sure how practical to implement, but you might be onto something there
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 04, 2013, 07:51:37 PM
ooh, now that's a sexy paragon if I ever seen one

Just played around with some hue adjustments for other ships... That actually works pretty well...

not sure how practical to implement, but you might be onto something there

Indeed it does and the adjustment is so simple yet so effective.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Cosmitz on October 05, 2013, 03:51:24 AM
The main reason that was mentioned against that kind of customization is that it takes away from the 'identity' of the ship. The closest that is do-able would be decals.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 05, 2013, 06:27:08 AM
The main reason that was mentioned against that kind of customization is that it takes away from the 'identity' of the ship. The closest that is do-able would be decals.

Yeah i get what you're saying. Although, in my opinion, If a ship has a unison identity and there is several of those same identities, it takes away from the players identity. I do not see this as a problem, and it doesn't bother me. I just think that it would be a really cool option to have that many player will love. As it is a single player game, if the 'identity' of a ship was diminished then what would that matter? It isn't effecting your experience? People are already modding away like crazy, does that take away from the identity of the game?
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: xenoargh on October 05, 2013, 07:32:43 AM
The problem with the hue-slider approach is that its something that only works well with some ships.

It really doesn't work all that great with the ships that aren't monochrome palettes, though.  I.E. Buffalo Mk. 2, Lasher etc. don't really like hue-slider stuff.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: DatonKallandor on October 05, 2013, 09:05:02 AM
Personally I thought the colour test images with the different coloured markings, but not different coloured hull looked great. It didn't really diminish the identity of the ships because the Paragon still looked clearly like a blue-hulled paragon, even when it had red auxiliary markings.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: TheHengeProphet on October 05, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
The problem with the hue-slider approach is that its something that only works well with some ships.

It really doesn't work all that great with the ships that aren't monochrome palettes, though.  I.E. Buffalo Mk. 2, Lasher etc. don't really like hue-slider stuff.

A way to fix this would be to add "zones" for varying hue/saturation adjustments.  Essentially "cutting the ship up", painting those bits, and slapping it all back together for a finished product.  These adjustments could be stored as some sort of "data" on the ship file in much the same way as hull mods and weapons loadouts.

This allows for a high degree of customisation, allowing people to completely change the paint scheme of a ship, while still allowing those who don't want to paint their whole ship to keep it as it is and only plop a stripe onto it.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Alfalfa on October 05, 2013, 06:36:22 PM
I still think Gotcha!'s overlay idea gives us the most bang for our buck of the ideas proposed so far.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Gotcha! on October 05, 2013, 07:03:05 PM
I'm usually very modest (in my humble opinion anyway), but in this case I'd like to state that I agree. :D
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: TheHengeProphet on October 05, 2013, 09:54:26 PM
Okay, so I messed around, cut bits off of ships and recoloured them, trying to keep the shiny metal bits intact, but this can be a good case for colouring zones.

I am not a pixel artist, and did nothing but a little cutting and recolourising.  I cut bits off, and put them into layers, which means I can recolour them as many times as I like.  I thought about taking each panel of the medusa and making each have its own colour, but I didn't want to stare at a screen that closely for that long.

I tried to upload them to imgur, but it wouldn't accept.

I made a poor attempt to "piratise" the Apogee, and decided to show how creepy the Medusa really is.  Okay, seems the apogee is too large to attatch as a file, and imgur won't accept them, so... here's the medusa.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: Noilei on October 05, 2013, 11:13:13 PM
Okay, so I messed around, cut bits off of ships and recoloured them, trying to keep the shiny metal bits intact, but this can be a good case for colouring zones.

I am not a pixel artist, and did nothing but a little cutting and recolourising.  I cut bits off, and put them into layers, which means I can recolour them as many times as I like.  I thought about taking each panel of the medusa and making each have its own colour, but I didn't want to stare at a screen that closely for that long.

I tried to upload them to imgur, but it wouldn't accept.

I made a poor attempt to "piratise" the Apogee, and decided to show how creepy the Medusa really is.  Okay, seems the apogee is too large to attatch as a file, and imgur won't accept them, so... here's the medusa.

I have attempted to do the same a few times, however it was with some kit bashes i did. The same effect sould be easily applied to stock ships though. It's quite effective as a lot of the ships have distinctive panels (especially the tach ships). Here is the paragon i did real quick, and the more detailed kitbashes. Changing the hull shade and colouration can have a massive impact, and may take away from its identity, however it creates a new one.
Spoiler
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6suxle.png)(http://i43.tinypic.com/2vbwhtz.png)(http://i41.tinypic.com/546ro4.jpg)(http://i41.tinypic.com/352jh95.png)
[close]

I understand that these are far too off track from what we're talking about here but the concept can be carried over, that is, the colourisation of panels of a ship. The most realistic approach is most definitely the decal overlays mentioned by Gotcha! But you can achieve some really cool stuff just by messing around with hue sliders and layers.
Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: PCCL on October 06, 2013, 01:27:40 AM
I think each ship could be divided into any number of zones (main hull, secondary hull, decals, machinery, etc.etc. which can then be separately colored (kinda like how ME2-3 did with shep's armor, or how DOWII did with their army customizer, or how HWII did with their ships albeit a bit more sophisticated)

Title: Re: Aesthetic Customisations and Modifications
Post by: TheHengeProphet on October 06, 2013, 03:32:38 AM
I think each ship could be divided into any number of zones (main hull, secondary hull, decals, machinery, etc.etc. which can then be separately colored (kinda like how ME2-3 did with shep's armor, or how DOWII did with their army customizer, or how HWII did with their ships albeit a bit more sophisticated)



Actually, if you could do that, then you could probably set up a "fleet scheme" option that colours all primary/secondary/decals/stripes/etcetera accordingly, which would then apply it to all ships in your fleet, preferably just slapping the template on the ships at hand, allowing you to further customise any given ship beyond that.

Edit: Okay, got imgur to work.
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/4gvFt8t.png)
[close]