Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => Announcements => Topic started by: Alex on September 19, 2013, 07:35:15 PM
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This version is out - you can download it here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2013/10/02/starsector-0-6-1a-release/).
Changes as of October 02, 2013
Miscellaneous:
- After a loss, enemy will try to disengage if all it has in reserves are civilian ships, even if the player's fleet is all out of CR
- Adjusted "peak active performance" so that inactive (but deployed) drones do not cause it to tick down
- When encountering a neutral fleet that's outnumbered, replaced "Let them go" option with "Leave", picking which doesn't cause the faction to go hostile
- Fixed up Prometheus sprite so that damage decals don't show up outside the ship in a few places
- Retreating fighter wings no longer receive replacement fighters from carriers
- Autofiring strike weapons will not fire at fighters or frigates (except for the AM Blaster, which will fire on frigates but not fighters)
- Admiral AI: won't create "fighter rendezvous" assignment unless there is at least 1 flight deck for every pair of wings deployed (and will cancel it as appropriate)
- Ships no longer lose CR for retreating during an "escape" type battle. (Still lose CR for being deployed; just no longer a double hit.)
- In combat, ships in an AI fleet trying to escape may turn to fight if they're caught up with
- Overall improved "escape" admiral AI (handling a delaying action, ordering retreats at appropriate times)
- Harrying an enemy fleet now counts as a hostile action and triggers a speed boost to the loser/speed penalty to the aggressor. "Let them go" does not.
- A weaker enemy fleet may decide to stand and fight (rather than trying to escape) if caught by a faster and stronger fleet
- Burst PD lasers and the Guardian PD System will only fire at non-missiles and non-fighters if at maximum charges
- Augmented Engines: increased in-combat speed bonus slightly, gives a Maximum Burn bonus of +2 (was: +1)
- Marines: reduced supply consumption by a factor of 5
- Base chance for a ship to be repaired after combat (and to become boardable, or simply repaired if friendly) increased to 20% (was: 5%)
- Field Repairs perk: reduced bonus to ship repair chance to 30% (50% total, base + perk)
- Ships using Burn Drive, Maneuvering Jets, or another engine-enhancing system can not suffer a flameout due to engine damage while the system is active - at least a single engine will remain active. A full flameout can still happen due to a collision mid-burn, though.
- Battles where at least one side has less than 41 deployment points total will not have objectives, except for escape battles, which always have objectives
- Supply deliveries capped to 10000 units of each per station, fuel to 3000, crew to 2000, marines to 1000
- Changed fuel color in fleet member tooltip to default yellow (instead of the orange-red that made it look like it had a penalty)
- Added option to transfer command to a different ship right before an engagement
Modding:
- Fixed bug where a fringe jump point would not be properly generated for a system without any planets
- Added LocationAPI.removeScriptsOfClass(Class c) and SectorAPI.removeScriptsOfClass(Class c)
- Took out FleetGoal.DEFEND. Use FleetGoal.ATTACK instead, as the behavior is equivalent
- Added ShipAPI.getFullTimeDeployed() (returns total time deployed, as opposed to peak-effectiveness-drain-only time returned by getTimeDeployed())
- Fixed bug that caused all transient CampaignPlugins to be removed every time the game was saved
- Fixed bug where an EveryFrameScript would not run while paused, even if runWhilePaused() returned true
- Fixed bug where if there were more than 10 star systems in the game, some would not be advance()ed without the player being present inside
- Added FleetMemberAPI.getDeployCost() - returns value in range 0,1 that's the CR deployment cost for this fleet member
- Weapons with the "PD" hint and ammo regeneration will only fire at non-missile targets if they're at full charge. If they have the "ANTI_FTR" hint, they'll also expend all their charges on fighters
- Added "ANTI_FTR" hint to Burst PD, Heavy Burst PD, and Guardian PD
- Ships with 0 minimum crew should now work (have a "crew fraction" of 1.0 for CR purposes)
- SoundPlayerAPI.playLoop() now properly updates the pitch of the playing loop if it changes
Bugfixing:
- Stability improvement for computers with integrated graphics cards
- Hyperspace texture will stretch properly when displayed on monitors with a resolution greater than 2048 in either dimension
- Should no longer be possible for fighters to get stuck in an invisible, "landing on carrier" state when the carrier is no longer in play for any reason
- Fixed issue where AI-controlled pursuing ships would always try to go up when they couldn't see an enemy, even if they were already near the top of the map.
- Fixed bug where Plasma Cannon shots would hit friendly drones and fighter when fired by the AI
- Fixed bug where your view would be stuck to the targeted ship if you pressed R, then Z, then R again to clear the target
- Fixed bug where CR did not affect the stats displayed in the refit screen
- Fixed crash bug caused by pressing "enter" (to activate travel drive) when the player's ship is disabled
- Fixed some bugs with improper CR values being displayed in tooltips, esp. relating to the "Run Simulation" option
- Fixed bug where the losing fleet got a speed penalty and the winning fleet got a speed boost (the opposite of what was intended), also fixed some cases where the bonus/penalty weren't being applied at all
- Fixed bug where clicking very quickly on "Leave" in the encounter dialog registered as multiple selections of that option
- Fixed bug where the hour in the day would get reset to 0 on game load
- Fixed bug where an accident could cause the loss of crew even if there was no crew left
- Fixed bug where an accident could restore some hull integrity instead of doing damage
- Fixed bug where sometimes one less than the selected quantity would actually be picked up by shift-clicking clicking and dragging to select the quantity
- Shift-clicking on a stack on the right side of the screen now properly picks up only 1 item
Changes as of September 19, 2013
Miscellaneous:
- Removed weapon mount information from fighter tooltip (not relevant since they can't be refitted)
- Text in the bottom of the ship info in the fleet panel now always on instead of only on mouse-over
- Ship price always visible in buy/sell tabs, does not require mouseover
- Various convoys that bring in ships now have a 30% for each ship brought in to be a fighter, rather than 60%
- Using right-click to create an escort assignment will not pull in any more ships than explicitly assigned, unless/until some of the assigned ships leave the battlefield
- Added "A" shortcut to repair ships at stations
- Admiral AI: less likely to order a full retreat while it has a military-grade capital ship on the field
- Frigate CR:
- "Peak performance" changed to "peak active performance", only reduced while ship is doing something - firing weapons, using shields, using a system/has drones deployed, etc. Not reduced while just moving.
- So: no hiding to wait out another ship's CR, and no penalty for using a frigate as a command ship and only engaging targets of opportunity
- New hullmod: "Hardened Subsystems". Increases peak active performance time by 50% and reduces subsequent CR degradation rate by 50%.
- Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector are now mutually exclusive
- Sensor Array and Nav Buoy bonuses now apply to frigates and fighters
- Nav Buoy:
- Top speed bonus reduced to +15
- Also lets ships ignore nebula interference, map-wide (i.e. zero-flux boost and normal maneuverability inside a nebula)
- Slightly reduced top speed on most frigates to account for the above (by less than <10% on average)
- The "load game" dialog will only show a TC's save games if, and only if, the game is running with that TC enabled
- Reduced brightness of damage decal on fighters, they don't look quite so molten when damaged and retain more of their original texture
- Adjusted daily fighter supply costs - some lowered, some raised
- A wing costs a little more than a frigate per day, to account for lack of extra repair expenses and being much harder to permanently lose
- Some examples: Talon: 2/day, Wasp/Gladius/Warthog/Thunder: 3/day
- All fleets (including the player's) now start with CR at the maximum level
Modding:
- Global.getCombatEngine() now works in title screen
- Fixed bug that caused a crash if the start location was in hyperspace
- Fixed bug where ModPlugin.onEnabled() was getting called on every game load and the parameter was also false
- Game no longer hangs when a fighter's "CR to deploy" is set to 0. Capped to 0.25%.
- Admiral AI will properly retreat non-frigates that suffer from CR loss during combat
- Added to ShipAPI:
- boolean isInsideNebula();
- void setInsideNebula(boolean isInsideNebula);
- boolean isAffectedByNebula();
- void setAffectedByNebula(boolean affectedByNebula);
Bugfixing:
- Selecting "no" in the "do you want to exit the game?" dialog from combat, in iron mode, no longer exits the game
- Disabled fighter wings can no longer be repaired after battle the way regular ships can. Still get repaired if the fleet has carriers.
- Fixed a number of typos
- Fixed crash caused by repeatedly pressing the "F" key while clicking on a fleet member
- Fixed being able to select a fleet member from a fading out fleet screen (again, caused by repeatedly pressing "F" while clicking)
- Fixed issue with shuttle pod (the one used to transfer command) occasionally showing up at stations
- Fixed bug where missiles (and other non-flux-using weapons) could be fired while venting
- Fixed bug that could cause savegames not to load
- Fixed "0-crew stacks" bug. For good this time.
- Fixed crash when creating a new game with a character name that ends with a space
- Fixed fog of war bug that showed up when a single fighter wing would pursue a single escaping enemy
- CR overlay in combat properly updates when frigates lose CR
- Removed extraneous "CR" label above "flux" on target reticule
- Fixed bug with 0.0 shield flux/damage displayed on the refit screen for a ship with a Front Shield Generator hullmod
- Option to repair fleet properly grayed out after performing repairs at station
- Fixed bug where battle objectives stopped revealing the area around them while the game was paused
- Sensor array properly shows that it grants a damage bonus instead of a range bonus
- Player fleet will no longer try to follow the location of a target that jumped elsewhere
- Fixed issue where an AI-controlled fleet would engage and then immediately retreat without deploying anything
- Would occur when the only available ships were freighters, most visible with the Pirate Plunder Fleet and other convoys
- Fix is twofold:
- Mothballed ships don't count against the maximum fleet size that can try to escape
- If the number of freighters is so large that it exceeds the maximum escape deployment battle size, some freighters will be deployed for battle
- Loading a variant with a built-in hullmod will no longer warn the player the that built in hullmod is unavailable
- Maximum burn level now properly updates when selling Ox-class tugs at the station, while at the station (previously required game to be unpaused to update)
- Ships bought from stations now always start at 50% CR
- Fixed crash for selecting only civilian ships for pursuit with the "second in command" option
- Mothballed carriers no longer recover lost fighter wings after battle
- Fixed how CR and maximum CR are handled when a ship's crew is under strength
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More to come, both in the way of bugfixing and tweaks! Just wanted to let you guys know what's done at this point.
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W.O.W.
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- Nav Buoy:
- Also lets ships ignore nebula interference, map-wide (i.e. zero-flux boost and normal maneuverability inside a nebula)
So that's a pretty big deal. Especially now that the bonus applies to the frigates and fighters.
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Whoo! Like most of this. :D
Will miss dual engine upgrades, but I TOTALLY get it, haha.
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One more 'holy ***!' for the echo chamber, but now for a slight c-c-c-combo breaker!
This is likely the wrong forum to post this, but based on the following response of yours to a now-months-old topic:
No, that doesn't work. There's no concept of "admiral" in the mission fleets. ... maybe there should be. I'll see if I can make some time to take a look at that at some point :)
So, as of now, any skill with "fleetwide" effects won't work like this, either, since those only work for the admiral. Only "piloted ship" effects will apply.
This is directly related to my own question in the 'Misc modding questions...' topic; didn't realize it at the time, though. *facepalm*
All that said, has any further thought/coding gone into that, Alex?
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Changes as of September 19, 2013
- Frigate CR:
- "Peak performance" changed to "peak active performance", only reduced while ship is doing something - firing weapons, using shields, using a system/has drones deployed, etc. Not reduced while just moving.
- So: no hiding to wait out another ship's CR, and no penalty for using a frigate as a command ship and only engaging targets of opportunity
- New hullmod: "Hardened Subsystems". Increases peak active performance time by 50% and reduces subsequent CR degradation rate by 50%.
This should fix a lot of my issues with high-tech frigate usage.
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All that said, has any further thought/coding gone into that, Alex?
No. It's one of those low-priority items that, well, I'm not sure when/if I'll find the time for it.
So that's a pretty big deal. Especially now that the bonus applies to the frigates and fighters.
Yeah. The idea is to have its impact on direct combat reduced a little while keeping/improving the impact it has on large ship mobility. Seems like a more interesting choice that way.
Will miss dual engine upgrades, but I TOTALLY get it, haha.
Don't worry, the Hound is still the fastest frigate :) Along with the Tempest, that is.
@Ishman: Hmm. Having looked at that thread, it seems like that doesn't affect it much, does it? (Important note: the "etc" includes the peak performance ticking down while the ship has non-zero flux. So, any type of damage-dealing is still controlled by peak performance.) But perhaps I'm missing another aspect of what you were talking about.
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Excellent changes.
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cool, maybe ill finally get my Sunder now.
also, Alex, what are you opinions on a update dedicated on adding more hulls and weapons into the game. i know the game's still in Alpha and mostly focused on adding more mechanics and features in the game right now, but having more hulls and weapons to play with would be nice.
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Sensor Array and Nav Buoy bonuses now apply to frigates and fighters
Yay!
"Peak performance" changed to "peak active performance", only reduced while ship is doing something - firing weapons, using shields, using a system/has drones deployed, etc. Not reduced while just moving.
I assume AI Tempests are smart enough to keep their Terminators in pocket until actually in combat? :P
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Not only do I appreciate the awesome game, but also the meticulous patch notes :)
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@Alex: a lot of the limiting factor in my experience was getting between fights counting against them in any battle worth deploying them in. 180 seconds + CR degrade time of combat is acceptable for such a mobile damage dealing platform. Their utility in being of any benefit to the rest of your fleet is still missing, of course, but if you just want to kill things dead and don't need support for your piloted vessel of choice, they feel okay.
A different matter is how expensive I think they are for what you get out of them, but that's balance tweaking and something to be looked at once you've gotten the important matters out of the way - like entire game mechanics such as Economy. Once you do get around to it however, I feel that for the campaign play these should be fearsome monsters that are rarely seen deployed in combat - an Abrams M1A1 intervening in the squabbles of T-55, T-62, and T-72s - Ruinously expensive, but utterly superior to everything else.
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also, Alex, what are you opinions on a update dedicated on adding more hulls and weapons into the game. i know the game's still in Alpha and mostly focused on adding more mechanics and features in the game right now, but having more hulls and weapons to play with would be nice.
I'd rather not get into that until more features are in place. The trouble with having more content is you've got to update all of it when as features come along.
Not only do I appreciate the awesome game, but also the meticulous patch notes :)
:)
I assume AI Tempests are smart enough to keep their Terminators in pocket until actually in combat? :P
I... uh. Ok, changed it so that peak time only decreases while at least one drone is actually doing something. That's nicer, anyway.
@Alex: a lot of the limiting factor in my experience was getting between fights counting against them in any battle worth deploying them in. 180 seconds + CR degrade time of combat is acceptable for such a mobile damage dealing platform. Their utility in being of any benefit to the rest of your fleet is still missing, of course, but if you just want to kill things dead and don't need support for your piloted vessel of choice, they feel okay.
Ah, I see. Fair enough. I just don't want it to get to the point where you can spend half an hour kiting a fleet to death - but, given that it'll take more than half of a Tempest's peak time just to take out a single Onslaught that's not fighting back, I don't think that's going to be a problem.
A different matter is how expensive I think they are for what you get out of them, but that's balance tweaking and something to be looked at once you've gotten the important matters out of the way - like entire game mechanics such as Economy. Once you do get around to it however, I feel that for the campaign play these should be fearsome monsters that are rarely seen deployed in combat - an Abrams M1A1 intervening in the squabbles of T-55, T-62, and T-72s - Ruinously expensive, but utterly superior to everything else.
Hmm. Balance will be worth another look, for sure. The Hyperion is already pretty fearsome, though - that's the idea behind it, total superiority in combat, with major drawbacks outside of it.
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Are Augmented engines going to get a buff now that you can't use them with Unstable Injector? Because I think most people will take the injector over the engines as the injector is the same price, you start with it and it adds +100 percent acceleration.
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- Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector are now mutually exclusive
Maybe Augmented Engines should also cost less OP? So far my impression has been that Unstable Injector is better for player-piloting and even AI in most situations.
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Very cool. The sheer amount of work you get done is astonishing sometimes... you sure you're staying sane?
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From the .6 thread:
Although it isn't possible anymore to double the deceleration by pushing S and C at the same time, strafing (either SHIFT+A/D or Q/E) at 90° angle and decelerating (C) still give that bonus.
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Alex, is there any chance we can get the turn rate back on the info panel for a ship?
... although I'm not sure where you'd put it ...
- Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector are now mutually exclusive
Maybe Augmented Engines should also cost less OP? So far my impression has been that Unstable Injector is better for player-piloting and even AI in most situations.
Aye, I always through it was weird how it didn't cost less points, given that it has less bonuses and arguably the same magnitude of downside.
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Minor thing, can simulation use 'full CR' values and not the current CR value of the ship?
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Minor thing, can simulation use 'full CR' values and not the current CR value of the ship?
Click the CR bar up top to set the value used in the simulation.
Could be a little more obvious, I think, your not the first to miss it.
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- Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector are now mutually exclusive
(http://iheardin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Vader-Screams-No.png)
NOOOOOOOO!
...why must you do this? I rely on these with my Onslaught to be able to catch up to smaller ships! :'(
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Very cool. The sheer amount of work you get done is astonishing sometimes... you sure you're staying sane?
I have this gnawing feeling that Alex is not entirely human.
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Shows how big the last update really was that there are so many bugs ;D Still more to come I imagine.
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- Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector are now mutually exclusive
(http://iheardin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Vader-Screams-No.png)
NOOOOOOOO!
...why must you do this? I rely on these with my Onslaught to be able to catch up to smaller ships! :'(
This, except substitute Onslaught with Colossus(Neutrino) running around the field at a break-neck 127 blowing up capital ships.
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...why must you do this? I rely on these with my Onslaught to be able to catch up to smaller ships! :'(
This, except substitute Onslaught with Colossus(Neutrino) running around the field at a break-neck 127 blowing up capital ships.
I think that's kind of the point.
Unless its because you can get +2 burn with both, in which case this is the wrong solution to the problem.
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I see the downside of Augmented Engines worse than Unstable Injector. Engines are going down after a good hit regardless of four times damage or not. At that point, repair time matters more, and it is forever with Augmented Engines. Unstable Injector also have the acceleration benefit that Augmented Engines do not have. Simply put, Unstable Injector is superior to Augmented Engines in every way.
Despite the heavy OP cost, I use Unstable Injector with *every* ship except Hyperion.
I would like it if Augmented Engines gets better, whether less OP, no downside, more acceleration like Unstable Injector, or... something.
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I really like having the ability to fight on my terms. I'll be sad to see the augmented unstable injector combo going away. Will there be a blog post about these changes? Or if it's really straightforward a forum post? I'd like to know the reasoning.
Now that i think about it how come combat upgrades affects travel speed? I was under the impression they were only marginally related.
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For Augmented Engines, I'd reduce or eliminate the penalty and maybe give it a special new feature, like increased maneuverability or a bonus to the zero flux speed boost.
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I only used Augmented Engines to stack with Unstable Injector. Since that will be possible no longer, Augmented Engines will need something to make it better (and not worse) than Unstable Injector. Just like how ITU is superior to DTU; DTU is more expensive than ITU, and cannot be used on small ships.
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Might be also worth re-checking Auxiliary Thrusters - just a bit cheaper than Injector OP-wise, but nowhere near as useful (even considering that it has no drawbacks except OP cost).
Actually, maybe it's just Injector that's too good? Available from start & more speed+acceleration than 2 other mobility hullmods combined. While injector's drawback sounds scary in theory, even AI-piloted ships don't seem to have much problems with it.
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Alex just a string issue to add here but is it possible to have the (Race)"Supply convoy is in system" message changed either to:
A) Stipulate which system it has entered (useful but might get out of control with many convoys)
or
B) Only announce if the player, convoy and destination are all in the same system (more manageable but less informative)
I know you have a lot to work on that's more obviously important but I'm thinking ahead while you're in a fix cycle :D
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ITU is superior to the DTC, but it also requires a fairly significant skill investment and the range boost is middling on smaller ships. Unstable Injectors require no skill investment, have the same OP costs, provide the same speed boost and are arguably better as they don't leave you adrift for most of the battle if your engines are shot out.
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About Augmented Engines: yeah, need to think about it a little bit, but they need a buff. I'm not 100% on making them mutually exclusive, still want to mess around with it a bit - probably shouldn't have put that in these notes.
Very cool. The sheer amount of work you get done is astonishing sometimes... you sure you're staying sane?
Not entirely positive. But thanks :)
From the .6 thread:
Although it isn't possible anymore to double the deceleration by pushing S and C at the same time, strafing (either SHIFT+A/D or Q/E) at 90° angle and decelerating (C) still give that bonus.
Right, I don't think that's a bug/problem. S+C was since they were conceptually very similar things, and were further really easy to line up.
Alex, is there any chance we can get the turn rate back on the info panel for a ship?
... although I'm not sure where you'd put it ...
Right, so, probably not. It also wasn't very accurate; there were some very arbitrary numbers flying around that depended on the ship size etc.
B) Only announce if the player, convoy and destination are all in the same system (more manageable but less informative)
IIRC that's how it works. Are you running info cases where it doesn't do that?
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And so, after months of collective anticipation, waiting, delight, desperation and finally the birth of a new version, we lay the 0.6a thread to rest. The release thread is dead, long live the release thread! May this one live a fulfilled but short life and die young.
By the way, do you suppose there is at least a chance of the new ship(s?) making it in time for 0.6.1a release? There was talk about a carrier...
Oh, and maybe teach the Wolf AI to only skip when in combat or on an assignment. ...Except in pursuit scenarios. Mh.
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Augmented Engines require rank 7 in a Technology skill, just like ITU (which is also a must-have mod for all of my combat ships, except Hyperion). Unlike ITU, I have no reason to use Augmented Engines instead of Unstable Injector. It is great for stacking with Unstable Injector for all of my cruisers and battleships.
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About Augmented Engines: yeah, need to think about it a little bit, but they need a buff. I'm not 100% on making them mutually exclusive, still want to mess around with it a bit - probably shouldn't have put that in these notes.
How about leaving them as they are but adding an additional drawback when you have both equipped? No idea what this drawback might be, but I'm sure you could think of something to balance out the speed boost from stacking these hull mods.
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Right, so, probably not. It also wasn't very accurate; there were some very arbitrary numbers flying around that depended on the ship size etc.
That's just setting yourself up for a "But then give us an accurate one' right there ::)
While we're on the Ship Info panel, fighters show the cargo/fuel/fuel usage, at 0. Are they even allowed to have those?
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The downside of Augmented Engines is very severe. If they flameout, the ship is as good as dead unless it has engine repair boosts.
EDIT - The lack of OP from stacking both engine mods is enough of a drawback. I cannot use as many weapons, capacitors, and/or vents if I stack both of them. I need max Combat (for Optimized Assembly perk) and high Technology to get (not quite) enough OP to use both engine mods and other goodies.
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I just noticed that phase ships don't get a speed boost while phased like it said in the patchnotes. Changed your mind or a bug?
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I just noticed that phase ships don't get a speed boost while phased like it said in the patchnotes. Changed your mind or a bug?
Somewhere else - I forget where - Alex mentioned that he had a hard time getting the speed boost to display properly. Personally, I don't care if it displays properly - I want that speed boost back! Plus it's great fun to have level 10 helmsmanship and skip in and out of phase to get both phasing speed and zero flux boost - or skip into phase for faster travel through a nebula. (MShadowy's mod implemented the phasing speed boost, so that's where I've been playing around with it. It doesn't matter much on frigates, but it's a huge quality of life improvement for a phase cruiser.)
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I really like the mutually exclusive change. Its just very silly to stack them both and get rediculous speeds, i do it all the time but i'd like to have better options. 120 speed apogee tyvm.
I think it would work as a nice way to swap out "engine types", if the two were more different. Maybe unstable injector is unstable in that the speed bonus it gives varies slightly during a fight. Maybe the speed could vary with flux.
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I really like the mutually exclusive change. Its just very silly to stack them both and get rediculous speeds, i do it all the time but i'd like to have better options. 120 speed apogee tyvm.
I think it would work as a nice way to swap out "engine types", if the two were more different. Maybe unstable injector is unstable in that the speed bonus it gives varies slightly during a fight. Maybe the speed could vary with flux.
Ooh, I like that. Unstable Injector's bonus decreases with increasing flux levels? Yes! That would be awesome!
...Augmented Engines still needs less of a drawback, though.
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Somewhere else - I forget where - Alex mentioned that he had a hard time getting the speed boost to display properly.
Now I remember, thanks for the reminder.
Coupling Unstable Injector with flux level sounds good to me, too.
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To iterate on that, how about the inverse?
Unstable Injectors provide no bonus at 0-flux but as flux increases, they provide as speedboost as the excess flux is rammed through the engines in an afterburner fashion. The modifications leave the ship's power systems so integrated with the engines, however, that overloads run an immense risk of causing flameouts as well due to the engines being suddenly choked of the extra power and "skipping a beat".
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For further discussion of that idea please open a new suggestion thread.
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Very nice list of changes, great job Alex!
I especially like the change to frigate peak active performance, it went in exactly the direction I wished!
Any planned changes to marines and boarding?
Marines have practically no use now because they are actually less efficient than regular crew (they consume 10x more supplies while being only 7x as strong). Their only advantage is that they take less passenger space, but since you don't need that extra passenger space for anything else, as it is separated from cargo space, you can just fill it with regular crew and forget about marines.
So it seems to me that Marines need drastical reduction of supply consumpion to be brought back to balance.
Another issue is the rarity of boarding events, and a very small chance for them to success. This coupled with very high upkeep costs of boarding crews means that boarding is no longer a viable strategy, while in previous versions boarding actions added a lot of satisfaction to the game.
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I agree with Carabus. Since 0.6a I'm not keeping marines around anymore.
The unemployment and career centers in Starsector are overflowing with depressed space marines.
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Yeah, Marines are basically not worth having atm. Even with a big nerf in their cost-effectiveness, anything that contributes that much constant drain either needs to see a lot more use or it's just not worth bothering with.
On that note... Alex, a smallish Idea: don't just change their cost-effectiveness, but also make the number of Marines have an influence on how much Loot we get. Positive feedback loop ftw; if Capture events will remain rare, this will be a good second-best and give them a core role :)
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All fleets (including the player's) now start with CR at the maximum level
Question on this; since I believe currently max CR is based, per-ship, on the overall experience of its crew, how do you plan to implement this? Will the experience simply not be a factor when calculating max CR? Or will the max CR decrease from the maximum based on new pieces of information that currently aren't being used for that purpose? Will the crew's experience provide some other CR-based bonus instead?
Also, I'm loving the idea of the "ignore nebula" nav buoy change, and the "active peak performance" change. Fantastic stuff as always Alex. Most importantly, thanks for listening to our feedback, you must be reading hundreds of posts a day!
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Marines just need to stop eating so much Logistics. I would rather have a few extra ships in the fleet or more crew to level up. I do not keep more marines than my sacrificial shuttle can carry.
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Question on this; since I believe currently max CR is based, per-ship, on the overall experience of its crew, how do you plan to implement this? Will the experience simply not be a factor when calculating max CR? Or will the max CR decrease from the maximum based on new pieces of information that currently aren't being used for that purpose? Will the crew's experience provide some other CR-based bonus instead?
At a guess... Crew skill will help determine how fast CR degrades?
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At a guess... Crew skill will help determine how fast CR degrades?
That's actually not a bad idea. Could have a multiplier on per-deployment CR cost based on ship's crew's experience.
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About marines and boarding: those are on my list of things to adjust. Currently thinking or reducing marine upkeep and increasing the base boarding chance substantially, but need to play with it some.
Question on this; since I believe currently max CR is based, per-ship, on the overall experience of its crew, how do you plan to implement this? Will the experience simply not be a factor when calculating max CR? Or will the max CR decrease from the maximum based on new pieces of information that currently aren't being used for that purpose? Will the crew's experience provide some other CR-based bonus instead?
At a guess... Crew skill will help determine how fast CR degrades?
Ah - what I meant there is they'll start at the maximum CR *for that crew/captain*. Right now they just start at 50% CR. In 0.6a, a ship with a regular crew and a captain with, say, 2 Combat aptitude will start out at 64% CR. It's not exactly a huge difference, but it's cleaner, and the initial supply consumption looks much less scary since you're not immediately in "recovering CR" mode.
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Ah - what I meant there is they'll start at the maximum CR *for that crew/captain*. Right now they just start at 50% CR. In 0.6a, a ship with a regular crew and a captain with, say, 2 Combat aptitude will start out at 64% CR. It's not exactly a huge difference, but it's cleaner, and the initial supply consumption looks much less scary since you're not immediately in "recovering CR" mode.
That's a bigger factor than one might imagine. When I first started this version and saw my supplies dwindle by about 30% of my total per day, I assumed that to be the normal rate and the system to be much more brutal than it really is.
BTW, the second in command is a bit too inept, I think. Just had two phase frigates (~40%CR) let a lone 0% Phaeton escape unscathed.
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Seeing how the second in command gets rarely used nowadays, i think i could only use him in pursuit, i just end up manual-ing all the fights. Seeing how CR prevents me from having 50 fights every ten minutes now, it's become manageable to fight every fight.
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ITU is superior to the DTC, but it also requires a fairly significant skill investment and the range boost is middling on smaller ships. Unstable Injectors require no skill investment, have the same OP costs, provide the same speed boost and are arguably better as they don't leave you adrift for most of the battle if your engines are shot out.
I thought that was the point? Since they don't stack, the DTU is meant to be a less efficient early game version of the ITU.
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The few times I tried second-in-command, it lets the ships escape that I would have no problem disabling if I did it myself. I have resigned to manual every pursuit with a Hyperion.
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And if patch notes stick, both engine upgrade mods will not stack. Unstable Injector (no unlock required) is better than Augmented Engines (requires Tech skill 7), due to adding maneuverability and having a less dangerous drawback.
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I found augmented engines to be far better for side movement on frigates than the injector. I noted particular badassery with the hound, equipped with an augmented engine hullmod. Replacing it with an injector almost always got it killed instead, unless I did strafing runs like it was a fighter.
Maybe that is the purpose of augmented engines?
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The added acceleration of the Aug'd Engines is nice and is really noticeable on ships that are already pretty manueverable. But those same maneuverable ships are also pretty fragile anyway, and having to sit through that flameout is usually a death sentence without repair perks or the repair hullmod.
And I suck at flying the Hound. That's just one of those things that the AI is a master with and I will never compete at it's level.
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Alex, is there any chance we can get the turn rate back on the info panel for a ship?
... although I'm not sure where you'd put it ...
Right, so, probably not. It also wasn't very accurate; there were some very arbitrary numbers flying around that depended on the ship size etc.
You could just give it as rad/deg per second. (EVE Online does this with turret traverse speeds.)
-- Griffinhart
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When might we start seeing AI changes, I guess that would be one of the last things that gets looked at, with more weapons and ships makes it to the list right?
Like as we see with the subsystem maneuvering thrusters causing AI to spin their eagles, and mules comically.
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guys wtf happened with ship categories in the sell|buy menu
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Nav Bouys let you ignore nebulae? Can I just tow one into battle, please? I hate nebulae!
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Haha Axiege! XD
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guys wtf happened with ship categories in the sell|buy menu
They're gone- instead it's sorted from biggest to smallest ships. So scroll down to buy fighters :)
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I actually kinda dislike that - as far as I can tell, theres no particularly obvious way to tell what class a ship youre trying to buy is. Best way seems to be to guess based off of its name.
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My only gripe is that I have to click the 'buy' button instead of using a hotkey. Could hitting 'F' while already in the fleet screen (and docked of course) change over to the buyable ships?
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I actually kinda dislike that - as far as I can tell, theres no particularly obvious way to tell what class a ship youre trying to buy is. Best way seems to be to guess based off of its name.
Guess? It says what type of ship you're buying in the name. It spells it out.
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Alex, I got a question for you. Are goods/supplies removed from stations once in a while?
Both my mods have 'quest items' on stations, which should never ever disappear. But according to two people they did disappear.
If the game does remove products once in a while, is there a way to make certain items stay put?
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How much does sending out salvage teams increase the loot yield?
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When might we start seeing AI changes, I guess that would be one of the last things that gets looked at, with more weapons and ships makes it to the list right?
Like as we see with the subsystem maneuvering thrusters causing AI to spin their eagles, and mules comically.
Erm. As far as I'm concerned, the ship AI is in pretty good shape. It's something I've spend a huge chunk of time on already, and wasn't planning to spend that much more unless game mechanics introduce changes that require the AI to keep up. Every change so far, though, I've taken care to ensure the AI knows about.
Alex, is there any chance we can get the turn rate back on the info panel for a ship?
... although I'm not sure where you'd put it ...
Right, so, probably not. It also wasn't very accurate; there were some very arbitrary numbers flying around that depended on the ship size etc.
You could just give it as rad/deg per second. (EVE Online does this with turret traverse speeds.)
-- Griffinhart
That value encompassed more than that, though - also turn acceleration, and thrust deceleration/deceleration. I think dumping all those values on the player wouldn't be very nice, and it's the kind of stat where the number/word tells you less than just spending 2 seconds with the ship. There's a lot of similarity within each size class, too, so that alone gives you a decent idea.
I actually kinda dislike that - as far as I can tell, theres no particularly obvious way to tell what class a ship youre trying to buy is. Best way seems to be to guess based off of its name.
Hmm. True, but aside from the aforementioned turn rate, everything else is just stats, the size doesn't matter. I've got looking at it as an item on my list, though that's hardly a promise.
My only gripe is that I have to click the 'buy' button instead of using a hotkey. Could hitting 'F' while already in the fleet screen (and docked of course) change over to the buyable ships?
Yeah, a hotkey would be nice.
Alex, I got a question for you. Are goods/supplies removed from stations once in a while?
Both my mods have 'quest items' on stations, which should never ever disappear. But according to two people they did disappear.
If the game does remove products once in a while, is there a way to make certain items stay put?
Once it gets over 100 stacks total, new stuff replaces old. There's no way to make sure they don't dissappear. Other than frequently checking to make sure they're still there and re-adding, I suppose, though that's not guaranteed to work depending on the timing of a convoy. If you also pruned off lots of stacks to keep it around 50 or so, though, that'd probably do it by preventing the game from needing to do any replacing.
How much does sending out salvage teams increase the loot yield?
Double. The idea is that it's almost always the more economic option than stand down, unless you just didn't kill anything and/or massively over-deployed.
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Alex, I got a question for you. Are goods/supplies removed from stations once in a while?
Both my mods have 'quest items' on stations, which should never ever disappear. But according to two people they did disappear.
If the game does remove products once in a while, is there a way to make certain items stay put?
The better way to resolve this is to write a custom Dialog for those locations that handles the Quest items.
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it's the kind of stat where the number/word tells you less than just spending 2 seconds with the ship.
In that case, a way to test-pilot a ship before committing to a purchase would be nice.
Something like, say, allowing the player to get a 100% refund on a ship purchase as long as the player hasn't undocked with the ship since purchase. (This would let players mess around with ship fittings too, without having to go into dev mode to get the Variant Editor.)
-- Griffinhart
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I actually kinda dislike that - as far as I can tell, theres no particularly obvious way to tell what class a ship youre trying to buy is. Best way seems to be to guess based off of its name.
Hmm. True, but aside from the aforementioned turn rate, everything else is just stats, the size doesn't matter. I've got looking at it as an item on my list, though that's hardly a promise.
I would entirely agree if we didnt have a skill that increased the burn speed of specific types of ships in differing ways. Its not super big deal still granted, its just a little detail that maybe could be tidied up
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I think that the latest version was too hard, because supplies decrease very fastly and we don't have time to find pirates to destroy for stuff at the start. And I think also that supplies are expensives and if you want to increase their importance, you should decrease their price.
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Once it gets over 100 stacks total, new stuff replaces old. There's no way to make sure they don't dissappear. Other than frequently checking to make sure they're still there and re-adding, I suppose, though that's not guaranteed to work depending on the timing of a convoy. If you also pruned off lots of stacks to keep it around 50 or so, though, that'd probably do it by preventing the game from needing to do any replacing.
These quest items I mentioned, there's always just one available for a player. There are never new ones delivered, so a 'stack' will never have more than one.
I understand that these items should never disappear then, is this correct?
If this IS correct, then I think there's a bug somewhere, because certain items in my mod disappear.
If this is NOT correct and items just disappear based on the number of total items in a station (no matter what category), then I implore you to make some sort of flag addable to certain items so that they never disappear unless the player buys them.
I hope I'm making sense. ???
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Random Stuff:
- Waah, I only just now noticed that you can drop ships in the fleet menu in between other ships! Awesome, was missing this so much.
- It would be nice if the number of crew lost in the last engagement would be colored in the "preliminary report".
- I would like the "You have won, press esc to end battle" message to be permanent. I often miss it and wonder. Although that is mainly an issue because of the esc crash bug. (Did I say this already? I don't remember.)
- I am still bitterly missing a way to map firing weapon groups to my other mouse buttons, ctrl-# doesn't help with that.
- The "deploy left/right option of frigates and wings has two problems that I can see, new players don't notice it and is much more clicking work in big fleets where you basically always want this option. Starting with left or right after clicking as default would cure both those problems. (By the way it's great that the #-groups work with this, too.)
- What is the idea behind the order of ship buttons? Info - Refit - Priority - Suspend - Mothball - Scuttle would seem to make more sense, it's from frequent use to seldom use and from "good for ship" to "bad for ship" at the same time.
- Although theoretically unnecessary, it would be helpful to see cargo space while in flight. I don't like saying that because the current concept is clean, but the fact is: I am often simply forgetting my current free cargo space and have to go to the menu to check before attacking a fleet. And that's annoying.
Double. The idea is that it's almost always the more economic option than stand down, unless you just didn't kill anything and/or massively over-deployed.
Nice! Would advice to communicate this inside the game, without some prior knowledge of your affinity to decisions with strong impact, I would have assumed something in the 10% range from experience in other games.
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I just noticed that crew are no longer auto-distributed among ships - as in, if your capital ship is in the first slot (or has logistical priority), and there aren't enough elite crew to get it to Elite level, it'll put all your elites there anyway and leave none for other ships. Is this intentional?
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I just noticed that crew are no longer auto-distributed among ships - as in, if your capital ship is in the first slot (or has logistical priority), and there aren't enough elite crew to get it to Elite level, it'll put all your elites there anyway and leave none for other ships. Is this intentional?
The crew level symbol is nothing more than a quick indicator now. The only effect of crew is their influence on max CR, which is (much more) gradual. So, it makes sense to put better crew in ships even if their displayed crew level doesn't change.
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The only effect of crew is their influence on max CR
Is it? I thought better crew gave you better aiming for weapon groups set to auto fire.
Oh a related note, is there any way to set all weapon groups to auto fire and not actually manually control any?
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The only effect of crew is their influence on max CR
Is it? I thought better crew gave you better aiming for weapon groups set to auto fire.
Oh a related note, is there any way to set all weapon groups to auto fire and not actually manually control any?
That's controlled by CR, not crew directly ... all those those modifiers are controlled by CR now.
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Oh a related note, is there any way to set all weapon groups to auto fire and not actually manually control any?
If you have less than five weapon groups, you can deselect all groups by "selecting" one that doesn't exist.
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Oh a related note, is there any way to set all weapon groups to auto fire and not actually manually control any?
If you have less than five weapon groups, you can deselect all groups by "selecting" one that doesn't exist.
If you do have more than 5 weapon groups, try to compress weapon groups by shunting weapons into different groups, or just take control of a weapon group that you can capably control, whether that be a portion of your main guns or your secondary "anti-little-ship" guns.
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Sorry, I'm not sure if this is or addressed or not in patch, but i sometimes end up refitting twice at station, once as I land, then sell stuff, then when I leave I have to refit again now that cargo is not overstuffed, then I have to resupply to bring supplies back up to acceptable levels (i run a small frigate fleet). I get why it's happening, and it isn't too annoying, but I was wondering if this could be streamlined somehow.
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I wonder if refitting at a station should just bring things to max allowed CR, ignoring current CR from logistics capacity (but still respecting crew). That would at least remove issues of repeatedly refitting as cargo space gets spent, increasing logistics capacity.
That feels to me like a good solution to that problem, but I am wondering if it would have silly edge case exploits or something associated with it. Main thing I can think of is refitting and immediately entering combat with a substantially larger fleet than you could realistically logistically control I guess? Not sure how that would be worked out though.
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I'm kinda against removing the info about fighter/bomber weapons from the screen.
It's pretty useful to know what weaponry a certain wing has equipped... especially if its a new wing you haven't seen before (made by modders for example). and the descriptions can be quite vague when it comes to describing the weaponry.
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I wonder if refitting at a station should just bring things to max allowed CR, ignoring current CR from logistics capacity (but still respecting crew). That would at least remove issues of repeatedly refitting as cargo space gets spent, increasing logistics capacity.
That feels to me like a good solution to that problem, but I am wondering if it would have silly edge case exploits or something associated with it. Main thing I can think of is refitting and immediately entering combat with a substantially larger fleet than you could realistically logistically control I guess? Not sure how that would be worked out though.
Seems like a good solution. Having to "repair" twice is a strange artifact that is confusing to new players. Maybe there could be a check when exiting a station to drop the CR instantaneously if the extra cargo is not sold/removed before leaving the station.
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I'm kinda against removing the info about fighter/bomber weapons from the screen.
It's pretty useful to know what weaponry a certain wing has equipped... especially if its a new wing you haven't seen before (made by modders for example). and the descriptions can be quite vague when it comes to describing the weaponry.
the weapons will still be there, but not the mounts. The mounts are the spots you can put weapons in, but are superfluous since we can't change fighter/bomber weaponry
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injectors have severe penalty, there is no reason to make this penalty ever greater disabling aug engines with injector.
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the idea is that aug engines are supposed to replace injector, I think
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Yeah, much like the Integrated targeting computer replaces the Dedicated targeting Core.
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Any idea when this will be released? Are we talking days/weeks/months/dwarf fortress?
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injectors have severe penalty, there is no reason to make this penalty ever greater disabling aug engines with injector.
I think longer flameouts (Aug. Engines) is a worse penalty compared to fragile engines (Injector)
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Any idea when this will be released? Are we talking days/weeks/months/dwarf fortress?
Sooner rather than later; I'd like to get the bugfixes out there ASAP.
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injectors have severe penalty, there is no reason to make this penalty ever greater disabling aug engines with injector.
I think longer flameouts (Aug. Engines) is a worse penalty compared to fragile engines (Injector)
Eh, I think they're pretty comparable, maybe depending on the situation. The extra damage is a big deal when it's the difference between getting flamed out by a single Salamander or something. It's just that the difference between their drawbacks is arguable and then one of them gets a 100% acceleration bonus so it's hard to make an argument against it.
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Once it gets over 100 stacks total, new stuff replaces old. There's no way to make sure they don't dissappear. Other than frequently checking to make sure they're still there and re-adding, I suppose, though that's not guaranteed to work depending on the timing of a convoy. If you also pruned off lots of stacks to keep it around 50 or so, though, that'd probably do it by preventing the game from needing to do any replacing.
These quest items I mentioned, there's always just one available for a player. There are never new ones delivered, so a 'stack' will never have more than one.
I understand that these items should never disappear then, is this correct?
If this IS correct, then I think there's a bug somewhere, because certain items in my mod disappear.
If this is NOT correct and items just disappear based on the number of total items in a station (no matter what category), then I implore you to make some sort of flag addable to certain items so that they never disappear unless the player buys them.
I hope I'm making sense. ???
Sorry for quoting myself, I am still hoping for feedback, Alex. ;)
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Once it gets over 100 stacks total, new stuff replaces old. There's no way to make sure they don't dissappear. Other than frequently checking to make sure they're still there and re-adding, I suppose, though that's not guaranteed to work depending on the timing of a convoy. If you also pruned off lots of stacks to keep it around 50 or so, though, that'd probably do it by preventing the game from needing to do any replacing.
These quest items I mentioned, there's always just one available for a player. There are never new ones delivered, so a 'stack' will never have more than one.
I understand that these items should never disappear then, is this correct?
If this IS correct, then I think there's a bug somewhere, because certain items in my mod disappear.
If this is NOT correct and items just disappear based on the number of total items in a station (no matter what category), then I implore you to make some sort of flag addable to certain items so that they never disappear unless the player buys them.
I hope I'm making sense. ???
Sorry for quoting myself, I am still hoping for feedback, Alex. ;)
I don't think it's items in a stack, I think it's number of stacks. The never disappearing flag still applies though
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i think the pacing of the game is way too fast in the early game.
you don't have time to play with the early ships because there is too much money and it's time to get bigger ships. ;)
btw, i have gone into the supplies reselling business. lol
this has been mentioned already but i think the frigates need more staying power in the fights.
i carry 2 of the same type just to switch when the 3 minutes of CR is over.
and even then that's not enough in the longer fights.
so sooner or later you gotta jump into a Destroyer.
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Stuff-in-quotes-
Sorry for quoting myself, I am still hoping for feedback, Alex. ;)
I am also pretty sure that he meant number of stacks: as in, if there are over 100 different stacks of ANYTHING (typically fuel, at the moment) then old stacks (entire stacks at a time, whether it's 1000 fuel or 1 loyalty token or whatever) will get randomly replaced with new ones. That is intended behaviour, based on my interpretation of Alex's comments and patch notes.
So, you could stop things from vanishing by deleting entire stacks of stuff you don't care about - like fuel. Nobody needs more than 2 stacks of fuel in a station nowadays, and maybe 5 stacks of supplies.
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Ah, that makes sense. Thanks, ciago92, Darloth.
I'll just do nothing then and wait for 0.6.1, since that version will partly fix my problem. :)
And I'm still hoping for an item flag to force certain items to stick around.
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Can we remove the double escape to exit game from battle? I'm used to escape being used to exit the menu, so I keep losing my progress because I press escape again without thinking.
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it's removed, it was a bug
Selecting "no" in the "do you want to exit the game?" dialog from combat, in iron mode, no longer exits the game
hitting the first escape asks do you want to exit the game, hitting it a second time answers no which used to exit anyways
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Any idea when this will be released? Are we talking days/weeks/months/dwarf fortress?
I like how the longest unit of measurement you offered is Dwarf Fortress. I really hope they release their next patch soon or at least on time (I believe they estimated for November) :[
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I like how the longest unit of measurement you offered is Dwarf Fortress. I really hope they release their next patch soon or at least on time (I believe they estimated for November) :[
Toady is a cruel God - implacable, inscrutable, and utterly without mercy. We can only scrabble helplessly at his feet for dwarf crumbs that fall from his neckbearded maw. And that's if we're lucky...
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One unit of Dwarf Fortress time is still less than one unit of Half-Life 3 time. :p
-- Griffinhart
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I just wanna say, I really like the armor change! I feel much safer now behind my thick skin and I'm accordingly much more troubled if a torpedo rips it open and makes me vulnerable to small arms fire. This tin opener effect really works great now. (Small arms here being guns that are only about 20 meters long instead of 60. He.)
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Bring back space button as an exit from the stations/map refit etc.
& stratton repair shortcut button :(
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A softer version of the "CR reduction from actions in battle" for all other ships (potentially without "peak efficiency"), as well as reduced flat rates for the bigger ships, would be a good idea. This would rebalance Frigates vs. Capital Ships a little, for starters.
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I just wanna say, I really like the armor change! I feel much safer now behind my thick skin and I'm accordingly much more troubled if a torpedo rips it open and makes me vulnerable to small arms fire. This tin opener effect really works great now. (Small arms here being guns that are only about 20 meters long instead of 60. He.)
Word. Nothing like seeing your Reapers barreling towards an exposed flank.
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all ships shoud suffer from combat, including capitals, but not from fact of deployment, it does not matter how ship fly around.
frigates shoud go malfunction after some shots, capitals after prolonged fight (or large amount of encounters, this will be logical), hitech ships faster, lowtech slower.
ships will already damaged hull shoud drop CR ever faster (snowball effect)
such system will be clear to understand, since all values displayed in raw (not hidden behind percent and obscure game mechanics), player will know how much each action know and how much reserve each ship have.
if ship A have CR of 9000 (no damn 50% or 60%) and consumption rate of 100% (ships like hyperion will have large values, like 400% and lowtech capitals lower values) fire gun with CR consumption 100, it will have 90 shots (it still can shop after CR deplition, but with malfunctions), shared for all instanced of that gun (very logical, heat managment is severe problem for space ships)
soo it will be reasonable to install low CR cost guns on ships with hard maintenance (and heavy guns on ships with easy maintenance).
If shield damage count as 0.1 CR (shoud be shared for all ships, shield efficiency already present) - maximum possible damage soaked by shield will be 90000 at flux:damage 1 (hitech ships with flux:damage 0.5 will hold 180k without issues on same other rates) after that shield will go eventual malfunction (just like everything else).
system with clear digit indicated max CR and current CR and maximum CR as value, not percent, with all guns without ammo but with CR indication and clear supply cost per CR will return strategic element into game.
if ship have 9000 CR and cost 0.01 supply per CR, it shoud tell player exactly that value.
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First fight, victorious, sent out salvage teams to secure more loot.
http://scr.hu/0zoz/z9oia
However now my only option is to engage again. Disengaging abandons all loot as I've found out before. That ship that's remaining is just a freighter against a fighting destroyer. Can I put in the Konami Code or something to allow me to leave the enemy fleet in peace, take my spoils and go?
BEFORE-POST-EDIT:
My mind just compared this to a mugging as I was about to post.
*mug passers-by*
*get friends to grab their purses and wallets*
Options:
"Hrm, I don't think we beat your ass enough"
"*** it, guise, their purses aren't worth it anyway"
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First fight, victorious, sent out salvage teams to secure more loot.
However now my only option is to engage again. Disengaging abandons all loot as I've found out before. That ship that's remaining is just a freighter against a fighting destroyer. Can I put in the Konami Code or something to allow me to leave the enemy fleet in peace, take my spoils and go?
Known bug, will be fixed in .61. Until then, cart around something small and cheap - I suggest a tug or two - that you can deploy and don't care if it loses CR. (Tugs lose only 10% CR per deployment. They're unarmed, but that doesn't matter when the enemy isn't actually deploying anything. Then, after your tug "wins", you can harry their reserves. Usually takes one full tug to force a group of freighters to retreat, so I suggest having two just in case.)
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There's a Neutrino "frigate" I can buy that's literally a cargo container with engines strapped to it. I'll pick one of those up next time I pass a Neutrino station. Playing Exerelin with all the stations in different systems, it's hard to keep track of what's in each system without wasting the fuel to drop out of hyperspace and actually visit each one.
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You'll need... I think it's six deployments worth of CR to harry enemy freighters down to zero? Something like that. So make sure whatever you pick up has a low enough deployment cost to be fielded six times in a row.
Odd, really; I'd expect freighters to take a particularly large CR hit for going into combat; they're not really meant for it, after all.
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Neutrino ships are very cheap to deploy (like 5CR), so carrying a couple of the flying containers in my fleet should be okay.
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I was just wondering, are you going to put the ability to hover objects (asteroids, Planets, etc) back in? Its really needed for mosts like Exerelin who have mining in them which requires you to be on top of a asteroid to do.
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0.6a is so hard :( ,All I wanted was hyperspace.......... Even cheating is hard...... allbeacuse of CR
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@Hiigaran: Will be fixed in 0.6.1a (at least for the asteroids, dunno about planets).
@NanoMatter: Practice! You'll get much better at this game, guaranteed. :)
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0.6a is so hard :( ,All I wanted was hyperspace.......... Even cheating is hard...... allbeacuse of CR
in the early game, make sure that you fight near somewhere where you can repair quickly.
you should start most fights at full CR.
get rid of the Marines and only get the supplies and fuel from fight.
i don't bother with boarding anymore since there's so much money to be made with selling supplies.
i bought a cargo ship whose only duty it is to carry all the money i make. lol :)
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0.61a; Coming Dec 3rd 2014.
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21dec2014 to be exact (same date as end of time and hl3)
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Updated. Also, 0.6.1a is out-ish, still uploading to a few different places, but you can get a head start on it right now:
Windows (https://s3.amazonaws.com/fractalsoftworks/starsector/starsector_install-0.6.1a-RC2.exe)
Mac (https://s3.amazonaws.com/fractalsoftworks/starsector/starsector_mac-0.6.1a-RC2.zip)
Linux (https://s3.amazonaws.com/fractalsoftworks/starsector/starsector_linux-0.6.1a-RC2.zip)
The plan is to get this out now, and then continue tweaking/trying a few things, and then have 0.6.2a out reasonably soon. 0.6.1a doesn't have everything I'd like; I just really want to get most of the bugfixes out there now.
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Wooo!!! also: first
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Awww yeeeshhhh.
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:) Time to check out what's fixed and what more I can do!
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Cheers :)
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0.61a; Coming Dec 3rd 2014.
BTW, very wrong. ;) Just under a month, too.
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Cool! In case of the Burn-drive abuse, flagship change and Burst PD behavior: Great to see this long standing rough edges finally smoothed out.
The plan is to get this out now, and then continue tweaking/trying a few things, and then have 0.6.2a out reasonably soon. 0.6.1a doesn't have everything I'd like; I just really want to get most of the bugfixes out there now.
Are CR-UI changes on the list for .2a? That's the main thing I miss here.
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The plan is to get this out now, and then continue tweaking/trying a few things, and then have 0.6.2a out reasonably soon. 0.6.1a doesn't have everything I'd like; I just really want to get most of the bugfixes out there now.
Are CR-UI changes on the list for .2a? That's the main thing I miss here.
Definitely going to look at that for 0.6.2a. Still need to read comb the feedback thread and give it some thought. (You're talking about "operational time" etc, right? At the moment, I'm not sure what "etc" actually is, again, need to really look at that :))
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Yay! Will be testin' mah mod and Breakin' Stuff when I get some free time this weekend :)
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(You're talking about "operational time" etc, right? At the moment, I'm not sure what "etc" actually is, again, need to really look at that :))
Right, right! Your timing with the update is perfect BTW, today is German unification day (started 2 hours ago), so I got time. Will have another look into the UI thread tomorrow (as in, the "real" tomorrow that starts after sleeping), some things might have changed with more playing experience.
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All modders may want to pay close attention to:
Took out FleetGoal.DEFEND. Use FleetGoal.ATTACK instead, as the behavior is equivalent
Causes Starsector to crash until changed.
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All modders may want to pay close attention to:
Took out FleetGoal.DEFEND. Use FleetGoal.ATTACK instead, as the behavior is equivalent
Causes Starsector to crash until changed.
I do not use FleetGoal.DEFEND but FleetAssignment.DEFEND_LOCATION. This is left unchanged, right?
[edit]
Nevermind. This is for missions. Not for spawns.
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Wait... so retreating in an escape no longer has the double CR hit, but retreating in battle still does?
but.... why? ???
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Augmented Engines: increased in-combat speed bonus slightly, gives a Maximum Burn bonus of +2 (was: +1)
I get they're supposed to be superior to Unstable Injectors (being at a L7 skill instead of free), but this looks like too much. I already preferred them over Injectors since their downside comes up less.
Gonna try them out some more, but my initial thought is to cut (either) half of that buff. And maybe add in Injector's acceleration bonus.
Fixed bug where the losing fleet got a speed penalty and the winning fleet got a speed boost (the opposite of what was intended), also fixed some cases where the bonus/penalty weren't being applied at all.
That'll teach me for not reading the whole patch notes! I promptly got into a fight and clicked through like normal (fight, loot, harry). Then I got into another fight I hadn't counted on. Then another, at around 10% CR ::)
In other news, my scavenger character will be very happy. And I finally get to try making a fleet of a PD-laser Astral and ~60 wasps :D (edit: aww, I always thought the PD drones had normal PD lasers, not LR's. Those aren't red :( )
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Right, right! Your timing with the update is perfect BTW, today is German unification day (started 2 hours ago), so I got time.
:)
Wait... so retreating in an escape no longer has the double CR hit, but retreating in battle still does?
but.... why? ???
A potential triple CR loss was a bit much. Lore-wise, you can spin it any way you like; for example: escape-style battles are pretty much halfway to what happens when retreating ships try to break contact with the enemy.
I get they're supposed to be superior to Unstable Injectors (being at a L7 skill instead of free), but this looks like too much. I already preferred them over Injectors since their downside comes up less.
Gonna try them out some more, but my initial thought is to cut (either) half of that buff. And maybe add in Injector's acceleration bonus.
Possibly, but on the other hand, like you said, level 7. Might just make it cost more OP at some point.
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Good stuff. I appreciate being able to strip out class instances of scripts - will make turning off mods much easier.
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Definitely thought you mentioned (re)adding A as a shortcut for restore to maximum CR but I don't have the shortcut. guessing it got pushed to 0.6.2a?
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it's there... press A
you don't have it?
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nope. and it's definitely 0.6.1a because I'm currently following asteroids mining. any chance its because I'm using LazyLib and Exerelin?
additionally minor bug in calculations for full repair, it occasionally will throw out some oddball 9+ digit number for supplies needed. revisit the page and it fixes itself, so I don't know where to go with that. I'll post in the bug forum regardless
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nope. and it's definitely 0.6.1a because I'm currently following asteroids mining. any chance its because I'm using LazyLib and Exerelin?
additionally minor bug in calculations for full repair, it occasionally will throw out some oddball 9+ digit number for supplies needed. revisit the page and it fixes itself, so I don't know where to go with that. I'll post in the bug forum regardless
Ah OK Exerelin overrides the default station dialog plugin with it's own, which is where the shortcut keys are maintained. It is still based off the 0.6a version so it won't have the new key bindings. I'm not sure that Exerelin will be 100% 0.6.1a compatible yet (good to hear that the mining works OK though, I had a fix for it anyway :P) so I'd suggest testing in 0.6.1a -without- Exerelin first if you think you have a bug :)
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excellent point, I will remember that going forward
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Very cool! Looking forward to trying this out. :D
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I have yet to play with this version but it was not part of the patchnote, and do not know if it was reported earlier.
On the 0.6a version my ship could still fire missiles while venting. firing a wave of Pilum with the Onslaught while halfway from venting a full load.
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Fixed bug where missiles (and other non-flux-using weapons) could be fired while venting
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Today is a good day. Unless it was yesterday. In which case... Yeah.
Anyway! I'm glad to see that missile thing fixed. How many times have I suffered from a bloody nose because of that little trick?
Hint: Lots.
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I suppose this may actually be the most appropriate place to ask: will updating break my saves?
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It didn't for me, all my 0.6a saves work fine and use any changes this brought :)
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I'm actually still playing a save from 0.54a, it wouldn't load in 0.6a but now it will in 0.6.1a. So not only did it not break my save it restored a save that was previously broken. Rather impressive, I would say.
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I did some experimenting with it, and while it didn't break my vanilla save, the game wouldn't even load with the mods I had installed.
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Just a quick question, has the supply costs for fighters been modified/lowered? I don't see it mentioned in the patch notes.
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they have been, it is in there ;)
Adjusted daily fighter supply costs - some lowered, some raised- A wing costs a little more than a frigate per day, to account for lack of extra repair expenses and being much harder to permanently lose
- Some examples: Talon: 2/day, Wasp/Gladius/Xyphos/Warthog/Thunder: 3/day
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I get they're supposed to be superior to Unstable Injectors (being at a L7 skill instead of free), but this looks like too much. I already preferred them over Injectors since their downside comes up less.
Gonna try them out some more, but my initial thought is to cut (either) half of that buff. And maybe add in Injector's acceleration bonus.
Possibly, but on the other hand, like you said, level 7. Might just make it cost more OP at some point.
I like Augmented Engines in this patch, except for the double repair time required (but that has been around for a while), but the extra speed, both combat and travel, makes the drawbacks (double repair and lack of Unstable Injector's acceleration) worth it. I like that Augmented Engines is better than Unstable Injector (usually), just like ITU is better than DTU. If Augmented Engines becomes more expensive, it needs even more (more stuff and/or removal of penalty). Otherwise, Unstable Injector becomes a no-brainer again unless I need the extra burn desperately. OP is scarce for most ships.
?Some examples: Talon: 2/day, Wasp/Gladius/Xyphos/Warthog/Thunder: 3/day
Xyphos is 4/day. Is this intentional?
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Xyphos is 4/day. Is this intentional?
Yes, made a mistake in the patch notes.
I like Augmented Engines in this patch, except for the double repair time required (but that has been around for a while),
It's no longer double, just 25% more.
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A question: If I choose to destroy a boardable ship instead of boarding it, do I get any extra supplies from the wreck? I just did it with a Buffalo Mk.2 and didn't even get to the loot screen (it was damaged and had probably consumed all loose supplies itself).
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A question: If I choose to destroy a boardable ship instead of boarding it, do I get any extra supplies from the wreck? I just did it with a Buffalo Mk.2 and didn't even get to the loot screen (it was damaged and had probably consumed all loose supplies itself).
It should count as a "disabled" ship. If you didn't get to do any looting, that's a bug.
Edit: just tried it and it seems to work - only disabled a single ship, then attacked it, it was disabled and I got the salvage from it.
Two options here: maybe you were in dev mode and pressed space/escape? Or maybe the ship actually got away? That's also a possible outcome, you can "order nearby ships to engage" but the enemy ship has a chance to get away from them.
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•Burst PD lasers and the Guardian PD System will only fire at non-missiles and non-fighters if at maximum charges
Can we have a way to enable the previous behavior. Say, if I target a big ship, I want to direct more firepower at it.
While I use burst PDs primarily for defense, I have used them as assault weapons against frigates and bigger phase ships (i.e., Doom) in a pinch. Also, one of my favorite Eagle configurations uses three heavy burst PDs, and sometimes I save charges until my target (e.g., enemy Dominator) overloads or vents, then I enable the burst PDs and let a dozen zaps fry the target for big damage.
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Fair enough (as far as that being your favorite Eagle loadout), but that's just how "burst PD" works now. I think that's all in all "better", that is, it does a better job in the role it's meant for, without giving up too much of its other utility. If you want the extra firepower in a burst, you can still control it manually; it'd only take a few seconds to expend the charges.
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Or maybe the ship actually got away? That's also a possible outcome, you can "order nearby ships to engage" but the enemy ship has a chance to get away from them.
Oh, that's probably just it, forgot about that possibility. Sorry, my bad.
Love the new BPD behavior by the way.
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Ok, now that the burn-reduction is applied correctly on the attacking player, I must say, its too binary and catch-all.
Frigate fleet with burn 10 and cap fleet with burn 3 both slow down to 1 ... it just feels wrong. Something like reducing max burn by 75% would be better, I think.
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my top 3 new features i like in this update:
* hardened Subsystem: makes flying a frigate a more viable option.
* fleet slowdown after a fight: you got to be more careful when and where you pick a fight
* transfer Command before the fight: very nice option to have.
the fights are harder to win so that's always a good thing.
love this update.
very well done!
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The new burst pd mechanics are amaaazing! Enemy hounds are living a little longer, but I can live with that to not get smacked in the butt by Salamanders :P.
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I like Augmented Engines in this patch, except for the double repair time required (but that has been around for a while),
It's no longer double, just 25% more.
Augmented Engines take less time to repair than before (125% instead of 200%)? The hullmod description is lying to me - it needs an update. Well then, Augmented Engines is really powerful. Glad it is a worthy upgrade over Unstable Injector, which, without the new-and-improved Augmented Engines, is already a must-have mod for every non-Hyperion ship I use.
I really like the +2 burn. At least ships bigger than frigates have a fighting chance to catch things without Navigation 10 and/or more Oxen than I can find or support.
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Ok, now that the burn-reduction is applied correctly on the attacking player, I must say, its too binary and catch-all.
Frigate fleet with burn 10 and cap fleet with burn 3 both slow down to 1 ... it just feels wrong. Something like reducing max burn by 75% would be better, I think.
Lore-wise, this reflects that the fleet is pretty much stopped while conducting salvage and in general recovering from the engagement. I understand what you mean when you say it's binary, but that's rather the idea. Something like a 75% reduction would effectively be the same thing, just more complex and likely to have a weird edge case or two.
Augmented Engines take less time to repair than before (125% instead of 200%)? The hullmod description is lying to me - it needs an update.
Oops - fixed that up. But yeah... I'm a little concerned about the +burn hullmods becoming more or less mandatory. Will have to see about that at some point.
@moontan: Thanks, glad you're liking it!
my top 3 new features i like in this update:
* hardened Subsystem: makes flying a frigate a more viable option.
* fleet slowdown after a fight: you got to be more careful when and where you pick a fight
* transfer Command before the fight: very nice option to have.
The new burst pd mechanics are amaaazing! Enemy hounds are living a little longer, but I can live with that to not get smacked in the butt by Salamanders :P.
All things that came up here on the forum; thank you guys!
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Ok, now that the burn-reduction is applied correctly on the attacking player, I must say, its too binary and catch-all.
Frigate fleet with burn 10 and cap fleet with burn 3 both slow down to 1 ... it just feels wrong. Something like reducing max burn by 75% would be better, I think.
Lore-wise, this reflects that the fleet is pretty much stopped while conducting salvage and in general recovering from the engagement. I understand what you mean when you say it's binary, but that's rather the idea. Something like a 75% reduction would effectively be the same thing, just more complex and likely to have a weird edge case or two.
Mmm, I can see that, the two cases I'm worried about is:
a) frigate fleet too large to disengage, where your burn bonuses are effectively nullified with no way to alleviate the issue.
b) beginning player experience - its incredibly intimidating in the early game when there's lots of small-to-medium pirate fleets around that after you kill that lone buffalo/lasher/hound you found by weaving through a dozen pirate fleets that could splat you every bloody red fleet around homes in on you and you feel like the proverbial sitting duck. learning curve and initial experience intimidation is high enough as it is in this game. beginning players wouldn't know that small fleet vs small fleet you can just disengage, and its just plain scary. I'm also not sure what happens if you're new and your small noob frigate team gets caught by a large pirate fleet.
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Oops - fixed that up. But yeah... I'm a little concerned about the +burn hullmods becoming more or less mandatory. Will have to see about that at some point.
Engine hullmods have been mandatory for every ship, except for those few who can teleport (Hyperion in standard). The easiest way to fix this is to eliminate all speed hullmods.
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But yeah... I'm a little concerned about the +burn hullmods becoming more or less mandatory. Will have to see about that at some point.
I've played a game up to level 40 on v0.6a and I have some insight into that. The only ships where I immediately put Augmented Engines on without thinking was on my freighters. The rest of the time it was a very tough decision whether to equip them. Basically the high cost of the hullmod made me ignore it in favor of usage of OP directly for combat (which I think was the intention). It wasn't until my character was much higher level and I had tons of extra OP for each ship that I could consider putting it on more ships as a bonus that wouldn't impact their combat performance too severely. In the same save also, I flew roughly three basic fleet compositions: frigate swarm, fighter/carrier swarm, balanced + battleships. Same was true for each fleet, I really wanted the extra burn but most of the time if I could do it with just Ox tugs, I chose to use the OPs for more combat related things.
In other words I don't think they've become mandatory, but the price should remain high.
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I've played a game up to level 40 on v0.6a and I have some insight into that...
That has been my exact experience, too. The only other cases where I used engine mods were highly specialized pursuit ships and sometimes on a "luxus" capship that was meant only as backup of my real fleet, so it wouldn't slow me down too much.
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Same here - Freighters and ships that I won't ever deploy to combat anyway get the burn upgrades. For combat ships it's entirely a tactical decision - most just don't have the points to spare for faster engines. As I understand it that's working as intended - which I personally like.
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At first, I cannot afford Unstable Injector on my Wolf, something I want to rectify as soon as possible. I start with a mad dash to Technology 7 when I can get Entopic Rangefinder (so my flagship can use superior range to kite), Frontal Shields (so the Odyssey I get later can get 360 shields), ITU, Augmented Engines, and more OP.
I put Unstable Injector or Augmented engines on all of my ships except Hyperion. Ships bigger than a destroyer are too slow (to pilot or move on the campaign map) without it. In previous patches, I used both Augmented engines and Unstable Injector on all cruisers and battleships. Now that I cannot use both, the OP once taken by Unstable Injector gets used to reclaim some of the other things I used to get during the days of +50% OP.
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:D
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The mad dash for Tech will be adressed eventually. I can't really see any game i'd rather have Combat 5 instead of Tech 5. Even solofleets, the OP bonus does enough to justify its existence.
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The mad dash for Tech will be adressed eventually. I can't really see any game i'd rather have Combat 5 instead of Tech 5. Even solofleets, the OP bonus does enough to justify its existence.
I still continue to believe that the OP bonus just looks better outside combat, while the combat stuff makes things SO much better in combat than the tech stuff.
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It is not just the OP that makes Technology good, it is Entoptic Rangefinder perk (lets flagship kite), hullmods and maybe the Navigation skill. As far as power is concerned, Leadership, namely Fleet Logistics skill, wins hands down. Increase fleet power by a factor of five with max Leadership and Fleet Logistics? Yes, please. But many ships are too slow for my tastes without perks from both Combat and Technology, and I cannot have the best weapons, vents, and hullmods without both max Combat (thanks to Optimized Assembly perk) and high Technology.
I still continue to believe that the OP bonus just looks better outside combat, while the combat stuff makes things SO much better in combat than the tech stuff.
By level 30+, I have more skills in Combat than any other tree. The various perks in Combat make piloting a big ship fun, instead of intolerable.
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The mad dash for Tech will be adressed eventually. I can't really see any game i'd rather have Combat 5 instead of Tech 5. Even solofleets, the OP bonus does enough to justify its existence.
The level of ridiculous *** you can do with a highly-skilled Combat character is absolutely enough to make the tree viable. If I was going to look for a complaint, it would be that the level 5 bonuses are nice but not overwhelming and you need to get it properly maxed out to really start being a rules defying badass. Once you get that point you're rocking out soloing fleets in a cruiser with 100% cr that goes 200 su with shields and PD on and handles like a sports car and also you have Optimized Assembly so it doesn't really matter that you didn't get the OP bonuses from the tech tree.
I would also say that maybe the missile talents and gunnery implant talents should be exchanged. It's really frustrating as a tech-based character to have basic missile-usability mods for your support ships require a substantial commitment into the combat tree if you aren't trying to make that kind of character. It's also probably the only skill that pigeonholes your character into being good with only a singular weapon type (gunnery-related skills help just about everything with a turret), especially with missiles typically being secondary weapons. Gunnery Implants is somewhat similar; in this case, it's a fantastic bonus that is completely out of sync with everything else in the aptitude branch and unattractive for a tech fleet character. It's a bearable burden for a combat character because you probably wanted to get tech after combat anyways, but it still seems out of place.
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Even some of the level 5 Combat perks are really good (+25 zero-flux speed boost, half overload duration, 50% faster venting).
I would also say that maybe the missile talents and gunnery implant talents should be exchanged. It's really frustrating as a tech-based character to have basic missile-usability mods for your support ships require a substantial commitment into the combat tree if you aren't trying to make that kind of character. It's also probably the only skill that pigeonholes your character into being good with only a singular weapon type (gunnery-related skills help just about everything with a turret), especially with missiles typically being secondary weapons. Gunnery Implants is somewhat similar; in this case, it's a fantastic bonus that is completely out of sync with everything else in the aptitude branch and unattractive for a tech fleet character. It's a bearable burden for a combat character because you probably wanted to get tech after combat anyways, but it still seems out of place.
Agreed on all points!
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•Battles where at least one side has less than 41 deployment points total will not have objectives, except for escape battles, which always have objectives
This was something I wanted for a long time. One thing I was not fond of in earlier versions was the interference from objectives, and I just wanted big free-for-alls. Now it is possible to fight big (non-pursuit) battles without them. It will be hard (solo battleship is harder than before, due to CR and increased supply use), but possible.
I like that objectives are downplayed overall compared to previous versions. I am not a fan of the objective system.
Even some of the level 5 Combat perks are really good (+25 zero-flux speed boost, half overload duration, 50% faster venting).
Yes. I rush for them (and the rest of Combat) after I get Technology 7, and maybe Leadership 1.
EDIT - I refuse to pilot battleships or slow cruisers without the level 5 perk Evasion. +75% maneuverability from that plus Auxiliary Thrusters makes them turn fast enough.
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The mad dash for Tech will be adressed eventually. I can't really see any game i'd rather have Combat 5 instead of Tech 5. Even solofleets, the OP bonus does enough to justify its existence.
I still continue to believe that the OP bonus just looks better outside combat, while the combat stuff makes things SO much better in combat than the tech stuff.
just for the piloted ship. The tech tree is almost all fleet wide. Combat is unattractive to me cause a lot of my fleets don't center on me doing most of the damage.
I am very tech heavy, the combat to level 5, a few into leadership so I can run a cap if I want, the 10 tech and then dump into combat. Generally.
Let us all remember, there is a whole unpopulated tree. Skill balance right now is all going out the window once industry gets added, leadership gets some buffs, and we ate able to hire captains.
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Let us all remember, there is a whole unpopulated tree. Skill balance right now is all going out the window once industry gets added, leadership gets some buffs, and we ate able to hire captains.
Truth.
It will be interesting to see if we'll have to manage with the current amount of AP/SP or if those will get a boost, too.
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Hopefully, Industry will be the tree for pacifist players. I want to level to at least 44 to finish my character, and getting XP past the high 30's (for about 20 AP) is tedious. Combat has at least four skills I want to max due to game-changing perks. Leadership has the most powerful skill in the game, Fleet Logistics. Technology has several powerful hullmods that are perks in their own right (e.g., ITU, current Augmented Engines), +OP%, and Navigation (to let your fleet catch others).
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Couple of things Alex ...
- Navigation, can you add in the info at what level it allows you to jump into systems using the star? Might be nice if it gave a level-by-level of the burn bonus too.
- Yeah, having taken a further look at it, I think the DP values for some of the Civilian ships are too high. A Buffalo Mk.1 sure isn't worth 5 DP of frigate. A Tarsus is maybe 4, it sure as heck ain't worth more in a fight than a Lasher.
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DP isn't so much as its battlefield worth, its more the burden it places upon the command structure. Ensuring a barely armed civilian craft performs usefully in combat is a lot more work than directing the actions of a well drilled combat crew in a dedicated warship
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Thanks for the feedback about +burn hullmods and skills!
- Yeah, having taken a further look at it, I think the DP values for some of the Civilian ships are too high. A Buffalo Mk.1 sure isn't worth 5 DP of frigate. A Tarsus is maybe 4, it sure as heck ain't worth more in a fight than a Lasher.
DP isn't so much as its battlefield worth, its more the burden it places upon the command structure. Ensuring a barely armed civilian craft performs usefully in combat is a lot more work than directing the actions of a well drilled combat crew in a dedicated warship
Well, now that "fleet points" are "deployment points" and are no longer used in the campaign layer, they represent two things: 1) the combat worth of the ship/wing and 2) the impact it has on game performance. In most battles, #1 doesn't actually matter since everything can be deployed at once (although the AI uses the DP cost as a shortcut for figuring out relative fleet strengths, but that can be adjusted somewhat for civilian ships). So, something like an Atlas may richly deserve a purely-combat-rating of 2 DP or so, but can't have it because its performance against the framerate - especially once it takes damage - is much "better".
Obviously, as a player, you shouldn't need to be aware of #2. I'm just explaining why the values are what they are.
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Alex, speaking of fleet points, i swear i can't see any indicator anywhere of how much logistics a ship will need. I mean a Shuttle barely even raises my logistics by 1% but takes no 'points' per se.
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When you pull up the info for a ship, look for supplies per day. That is how much logistics they will use (when not repairing).
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What about ^10 <s>the 'top-end' value</s> all DP costs and working from there? I find that the more balanced things become (also from modding POV) the difference between 4DP and 5DP is massive and hurts balancing options where the difference between 40DP and 50DP might allow better computations?
Also Thaago/Cosmitz; logistics shown for which?
The ship, the ship with skeleton crew, the ship with skeleton crew and no supplies or the ship with full supplies and crew? :D
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Alex, speaking of fleet points, i swear i can't see any indicator anywhere of how much logistics a ship will need. I mean a Shuttle barely even raises my logistics by 1% but takes no 'points' per se.
Maybe the misunderstanding here is the difference between logistic rating (LR) and logistic capability (LC).
LR is the big %-number in the UI (Pancakes!), it only starts to drop if you exceed your LC. LC is a whole number (20 without skills) and is represented by the blue bar, it's the value that is directly influenced if you buy a new ship. Buying a hound does in most cases not change your LR, but your LC goes up by the hounds daily supply consumption: 1 (so, 5% of your base LC).
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^^ Gothars doing it right :D
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Ok, so the hounds daily consumption while at Max CR is the old "Fleet points"? Man i wish that was written better somewhere. If there's one thing i mind about the new CR/LR system, is that it's overwhelming, even for me which played SS blindfolded, and even now that i dug a dozen hours in 0.6 i don't have a clear concise picture in my head.
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Ok, so the hounds daily consumption while at Max CR is the old "Fleet points"? Man i wish that was written better somewhere. If there's one thing i mind about the new CR/LR system, is that it's overwhelming, even for me which played SS blindfolded, and even now that i dug a dozen hours in 0.6 i don't have a clear concise picture in my head.
Yeah, daily supply consumption is roughly equivalent to the old FP. Just, well, very different^^ (And far to hidden, hint-hint)
I'm already busy writing the new manual, hope that will help to clear things up.
Apropos, @ Alex: Will there likely be any changes with Pancakes for 0.62a? I've not written that part yet, don't want to change stuff around too much...
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If there's confusion between LR and LC, perhaps LR could be renamed to Logistics Efficiency (LE), seeing as that's what it is anyway.
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Apropos, @ Alex: Will there likely be any changes with Pancakes for 0.62a? I've not written that part yet, don't want to change stuff around too much...
Fairly likely; don't know how extensive yet.
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Probably this was already somewhere answered. In v.0.54 if you run compilation of mods after some time (especially if you use load several times) game was prone to crashes and stutter/lag. In v.0.6+ mostly thanks to hyperspace system load increased even more. Eventually game will be expanded even more with new game systems and content. So my questions is should I expect that it will take considerably more powerfull PC to run Starsector, especially with such compilations as Exelerin's and Uomoz's, or it was all planned and as game expands optimization will improve and in the end It will require same PC as older versions?
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There is most likely some optimizations that could be done, but I wouldn't know. There will most likely be graphics options sometime in the future, kinda like Minecrafts Fancy/Fast render settings. Only Alex knows thhough, so don't take my word for it!
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Actually we've already hit and solved this issue :D
Okim's Ironclads mod adds in so much that the game fell over and died when trying to load all the systems and fleets up. Alex gave us a simple fix to increase memory usage from 512 to 1024 that solved the issue and compressing the saves made loading/saving much faster. I assume 2048 is also possible under 32bit architecture, but finally Alex was open that it's a hacky solution and there will be major optimisation down the line when vanilla reaches the size Okim's had.
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I have to say guys that your game is amazing and the ONLY reason I pre-ordered it is because I got to try it out first by downloading it from the pirate bay. Absolutely amazing game mechanics when it comes to combat and the physics, I love that you can basically create your own empire as well. I honestly think you guys should post a release on TPB, you won't believe how many people on there will buy your software after trying it out I know I did and I'm loving it so far. The only hitch I have found so far is that I can't seem to buy in smaller amounts from stations, its all or nothing. Maybe I missed something in the tutorials or perhaps it just isn't possible to do yet but so far this game rocks and the attention to detail on the release notes makes it easy to understand what direction you are taking the game in, keep it up guys! Rock the Stars with your awesome game!
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welcome to forum ;D, not sure how others think of the TPB thing but I don't judge, the last guy who revealed he pirated the game got banned though... (personally, I got PoP ready if anyone wants to see)
you can't exactly build an empire yet, that comes in due time.
pretty sure the folks out there already got the TPB release covered, don't think alex needs to do that. Even if it doesn't though, somehow I feel official release on TPB will decrease sales since that creates an image of the devs supporting piracy :(
buying smaller amounts from stations is a bit of a rite of passage for new players here, see if you can figure out how to do it ;)
see here if you give up
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I have to say guys that your game is amazing and the ONLY reason I pre-ordered it is because I got to try it out first by downloading it from the pirate bay. Absolutely amazing game mechanics when it comes to combat and the physics, I love that you can basically create your own empire as well. I honestly think you guys should post a release on TPB, you won't believe how many people on there will buy your software after trying it out I know I did and I'm loving it so far. The only hitch I have found so far is that I can't seem to buy in smaller amounts from stations, its all or nothing. Maybe I missed something in the tutorials or perhaps it just isn't possible to do yet but so far this game rocks and the attention to detail on the release notes makes it easy to understand what direction you are taking the game in, keep it up guys! Rock the Stars with your awesome game!
Hey colormeblind, welcome to the forum! :)
I'm not part of the development team, but I'm sure Alex&co will be happy to hear that you like it so much.
To purchase a specific amount on a station, just hold shift, click&hold on the item you want and a slider will appear that you can drag to the right.
Now, regarding piracy, that's not a topic that is particularly well liked here. While for some players it might work as a form of demo, the damaging effects of piracy, especially for a small indie developer, can't be negated. So, not meaning to be unfriendly, I'd ask you to dial back your enthusiasm for that while on the forum.
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@colormeblind: Thanks for your support, glad you're liking the game!
As far as piracy: as Gothars mentioned, that's not a topic for discussion on this forum.
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But they're one of 4 factions currently in the game!
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Touche.
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No disrespect intended and your input is also noted. As much as I am a pirate I will refrain from any further speak of such things in the future! I guess I should of been less ignorant and read the rules first. Thank you by the way for the helpful posts about my plight but I did manage to figure it out just before coming back to the forums for another read.
edit: Oh! One last thing about "piracy" before I shut my yapper about it. I noticed during my trial run with the game that a message appears eventually saying something along the lines of. "The RNG may know you are playing a pirated copy of this game, let the paranoia begin!" or something like that. Who's idea was it to include that and how is it that the game detects the fact that it has been pirated? Would also like to ask, why not just kill the game process at that point? Only reason I ask is because I found it to be rather funny and at the same time unsettling that the game was able to detect that it was in fact pirated and began to wonder what else may be going on in the background if it did know of such activity.
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"The RNG may know you are playing a pirated copy of this game, let the paranoia begin!"
my sides
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Shhh!
:-X
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Although it was a recent thing that started bugging me, i don't know when it was implemented. Showing weapon damage under the weapon in the combat display. When you have five weapongroups with varying settings and playing on 1280x1024, that takes a WHOLE lot of real-estate on screen. Would wish it would be atleast optional, i've been playing enough that i know all the weapons by heart and would like to see more of the pewpew and less of the text. :)
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I think just a horizontal display (after the weapon name, instead of under) that goes KNT, EXP, FRG, and ENG would be nice
then for modded damage types we can define our own abbreviations
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Although it was a recent thing that started bugging me, i don't know when it was implemented. Showing weapon damage under the weapon in the combat display. When you have five weapongroups with varying settings and playing on 1280x1024, that takes a WHOLE lot of real-estate on screen. Would wish it would be atleast optional, i've been playing enough that i know all the weapons by heart and would like to see more of the pewpew and less of the text. :)
That's a suggestion, unrelated to the release. Take it to to the suggestion subforum.
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Any word on 0.62a yet?
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You know what's coming.
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Any word on 0.62a yet?
Well, let's see. The good thing is the CR tweaks are pretty much settled, though not quite done yet. Was thinking about writing a blog post about that once it's wrapped up and I've had a chance to playtest a little. Beyond that, there are quite a lot of little things to knock out. So I wouldn't count on it coming out super soon.
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The good thing is the CR tweaks are pretty much settled
Glad to hear that. Though I always was against whole CR/high repair cost thing, I still enjoyed last two updates very much. It turned out that if I play new update as a whole new game, CR isn't that bad and I can enjoy game even with new unusual mechanics. And it doesn't matter what and how exactly I do in game, if its fun.
But because now I am on good terms with what CR done to my game experience, I was a little afraid that I will lose this newfound friend with next updates. Because it seems that people still find CR and supplies cost confusing and hard to adapt to, though its really not that big of a deal.
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Glad to hear that. Though I always was against whole CR/high repair cost thing, I still enjoyed last two updates very much. It turned out that if I play new update as a whole new game, CR isn't that bad and I can enjoy game even with new unusual mechanics. And it doesn't matter what and how exactly I do in game, if its fun.
Thanks! Happy to hear you say that :)
I think that touches on a really interesting point, too - future updates are bound to upset the status quo even more, as combat gradually stops being the only thing you can do and other playstyles open up.
But because now I am on good terms with what CR done to my game experience, I was a little afraid that I will lose this newfound friend with next updates. Because it seems that people still find CR and supplies cost confusing and hard to adapt to, though its really not that big of a deal.
I don't think the changes are drastic. Looking forward to writing that blog post, but have to get it wrapped up first and make sure everything actually works out as expected.
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I wouldn't count on it coming out super soon.
NP; I can't really work on my mod atm, either, so it's a bit of a wash either way; it'd be nice to be able to play it without crashes though :)
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I wouldn't count on it coming out super soon.
NP; I can't really work on my mod atm, either, so it's a bit of a wash either way; it'd be nice to be able to play it without crashes though :)
Ah but crashes are character building xeno :D
(unsolvable ones - not so much)
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Well, I could rip out features; I know what's causing the crashes. I'm just too busy / lazy atm :)
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A bit late, but I just tried the new-and-improved Vulcan, and it is useful now. Two or more Vulcans are effective at point defense (and better at it than machine guns), and for some ships (mainly Dominator), I have been able to swap out flak cannons for maulers/HVDs/needlers and flux-hungry light ballistics for vulcans. Vulcans are also very deadly against unarmored targets. I tried a Lasher with Vulcan x5, and it can kill a Hammerhead with ammo to spare. In previous versions, I thought why use Vulcan instead of machine gun. Now, there is a reason.
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The good thing is the CR tweaks are pretty much settled
Glad to hear that. Though I always was against whole CR/high repair cost thing, I still enjoyed last two updates very much. It turned out that if I play new update as a whole new game, CR isn't that bad and I can enjoy game even with new unusual mechanics. And it doesn't matter what and how exactly I do in game, if its fun.
My experience with Cr is roughly the same. The mechanic itself isn't bad and adds to the game, it's just that I feel like it wasn't sold all that well to players, and especially new players, let alone someone like me who has read through every blog post and know a little about CR before taking it on.
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I'm lost. Is 0.6.2 released? How do I d/l it?
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It's not. The thread is locked to avoid clutter. The title will change when the patch is actually out.