Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Zaphide on April 20, 2013, 06:43:49 AM

Title: [0.6.2a] Exerelin - Dynamic Sector and Faction War - v0.644
Post by: Zaphide on April 20, 2013, 06:43:49 AM
First off thanks to Alex and Co for such a great game!

Exerelin is a mod based around the concept of meaningful multi-system war between factions in a dynamic and ever-changing sector generated from scratch each new game. The main goal is to give a more alive/active feel to a game, with the player able to influence and dictate the events that occur.

Compatible: StarSector 0.6.2a-RC3
Current Mod Version: v0.644

DOWNLOAD:
Release:https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.644.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.644.zip)
Note: Completely delete and remove any older Exerelin mod versions

Requirments:
LazyWizard's LazyLib (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5444.0)
Dark.Revenants ShaderLib (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7958.0) (may be required for additional modded factions)


IMPORTANT Mod Memory Requirements:
Depending on your game setup/number of faction mods you will need to increase the memory available to StarSector.
 - Adjust Memory http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5310.msg111235#msg111235 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5310.msg111235#msg111235)
    - You will want to increase this (I use 1024 - 2048 with 64bit JRE)

Highly Recommended: You can also use the 64bit version of Java if that is supported by your OS and you have it installed.
 - 64bit Java http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg100834#msg100834 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg100834#msg100834)
 - 64bit Java http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg116470#msg116470 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg116470#msg116470)
 - 64bit Java http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg116483#msg116483 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg116483#msg116483)
 - 64bit Java Windows http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg120109#msg120109 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg120109#msg120109)

If you continue to have OutOfMemory issues you may need to (in this order of effectiveness):
 - Reduce the max number of stations per system (critical impact)
 - Reduce the number of total systems (major impact)
 - Reduce the number of loaded faction mods (moderate impact)
 - Reduce the number of concurrent factions in the game (minimal impact)
 - Reduce the max number of asteroids per system (minimal impact)
 - Reduce the max number of planets per system (minimal impact)

Features:
 - Dynamic sector every game (different systems, different planets, moon, asteroids and stations)
 - Dynamic Faction diplomacy including wars, alliances
   - Diplomacy based on events that occur within the sector
   - Player can influence diplomacy with certain actions and items
 - Factions conquer stations, increasing their presence in Exerelin and eliminating their enemies
 - NPC fleets cost resources (supplies, fuel, crew, marines)
   - Stations generate resources, with a bonus based on the planet type they are orbiting
   - Stations trade their excess resources with other faction-owned and allied stations
   - Player can mine resources
 - Player can join/leave factions
   - Includes support for a number of great community made factions
 - Influence mechanic for accessing higher tier ships and items


Videos (somewhat outdated)
Spoiler
Tokshen's  Exerelin+Zorg Series (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX4zXLBACJM)
Tokshen's  Exerelin+NeutrinoCorp Series  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSDSfA8BMtk)
Tokshen's  Exerelin+Blackrock Driveyards Series  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zowBXEMK59w)
Tokshen's  Exerelin+Gedune Series  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBlcO7AwAA)
Tokshen's  Exerelin+Junk Pirates Series  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgnv1HoJBq0)
Axiege's  Exerelin+Gedune Series  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY7Cl3xRKbY&list=UUoaHFN5QutPNaC_dwgB0hjw)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Nomds Series (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vn_Jaavtpg)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Shadowyards Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVOvEM49O-k)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Zorg Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ZzIdGP4Bw)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Citadel Defenders Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM1Oa2gUMA8)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Kadur Theocracy Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovnZAT9NusY)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Objectless Research Institute Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTqw-liaDGY)
Tokshen's Exerelin+Valkyrian Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyGmVH--Ozs)
Axiege's Exerelin+Valkyrian Series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI4Bq7spzF0)
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Exerelin Quick Guide
Spoiler
Starting Out
Faction-aligned: The initial popup will tell you where your faction has started.
Unaligned: Starting unaligned is a harder start, and you will need to gain influence before you are able to even trade with other factions.

Station Takeover
Once you have your first station, your faction will automatically start taking over other available stations, or stations that your faction is at war with. You can still take over stations, but you will need (at minimum) a super-freighter (i.e atlas or equivalent) and a troop transport (i.e valkyrie or equivalent) in your fleet. Boarding is expensive; you will loose the super-freighter, and any extra supplies/marines/crew on a successful board. If your boarding fails (the defenders kill all the marines in your fleet) you can loose a number of ships.

Factions
Factions will send out boarding fleets, attack fleets (during war), patrol fleets, defense fleets and logistics convoys. Defense and attack fleets are pretty self explanatory; patrol fleets will change from patrol/raid/attack/defend depending on certain circumstances. Logistics Convoys deliver resources to stations under heavy attack.

Your faction will also deploy mining fleets from it's stations to gather supplies/fuel, which are used (in conjunction with crew and marines) to fund their fleets. A lot of resources will result in larger faction fleets. A prolonged war will strain a factions resources.

Station Efficiency
Stations have an efficiency value that dictates resource generation for that station. Stations with a low efficiency will produce crew/marines slower, and mining fleets will deliver less supplies/fuel.

Station efficiency will be reduced by accidents and after station takeover. Reduced station efficiency will slower recover to normal levels over time.

Mining
You can mine by 'hovering' over an asteroid or gas giant and having mining drone wings (or Zorg Worker drones) in your fleet. The number of wings dictates how much you mine.

Diplomacy Items
 - High Value Prisoner; increases your factions relationship with the faction you deliver the prisoner to
 - Agent; attempts to create a relationship division between the faction you plant the agent at and another faction (not yours)
   - Small chance to backfire, resulting in a relationship loss between your faction and thiers
   - Small chance to fail with no penalties
 - Saboteur; causes a station explosion that reduces a station efficiency and destroys resources (including marines), weapons and ships on the station they are planted on. Good for softening up before boarding.
[close]

Mod Compatibility:
Modded Factions Supported By Exerelin (these need to be downloaded separately, and 'ticked' along with Exerelin)
Gotcha's Bushi (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6413.0)
Gotcha's Hiigaran Descendants (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6347.0)
Hyph_K31's Gedune (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3865.0)
FlashFrozen's Neutrino Corp (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2345.0)
mendonca's Junk Pirates (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=161.0)
MShadowy's Shadowyards Heavy Industries (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3491.0) NOTE: Latest DEV version, Link (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3491.630)
Erick Doe's Zorg  (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6522.0)
Varya's  Kadur Theocracy (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649.0)
mendonca's ASP Syndicate (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2333.0)
Cycerin's Blackrock Drive Yards (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4018.0)
Trylobot's Nomads (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=162.0)
ValkyriaL's Valkyrians (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5066.0)
Foxer360's Citadel Fleet (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6442.0)
Runoved's Objectless Research Institute (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7243.0)
Erick Doe's Project Batavia (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7458.0)
kazi's Mayorate (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7372.0)
NikolaiLev's Patrian Navy (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7329.0) NOTE: Requires changes SEE BELOW *
Zudgemud's P9 Colony Group (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7430.0)
DSMK2's DSTech Corp Fleet (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2711.0) NOTE: Currently unbalanced/WIP, see last posts in thread for details (link (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2711.msg125421#msg125421))
Erick Doe's Tore Up Plenty (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.0) NOTE: Expands possible pirate ships and ships that are available in stations.
keptin's Interstellar Federation (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2012.0)
mendonca's P.A.C.K (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6437.0)
Dark.Revenant's Interstellar Imperium (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8007.0)
SniZipGun's Eleutheria Federation (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7570.0) NOTE: non-TC standalone (under discontinued mods)
MesoTronik's Exigency Incorporated and Ahriman Association (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6509.0)
Sundog's Idoneus Citadel Exiles (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7625.0)
Dante80's Lotus Conglomerate (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1619.195) NOTE: Use latest V2.0+ by Brainbread Link (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1619.195)

* - Patrian Navy mod requires changes to it's Patria/data/scripts/PatriaModPlugin.java file:
Change the initPatria method to this:
Code
private static void initPatria()
    {
     try
        {
            Global.getSettings().getScriptClassLoader().loadClass("data.scripts.world.ExerelinGen");
            //Exerelin active, so just load Exerelin
        }
        
        catch (ClassNotFoundException ex)
        {
         // Exerelin not found so continue and run normal generation code
            new PatriaGen().generate(Global.getSector());
        }
    }

Additional Credits
Uomoz (coding examples, ideas)
LazyWizard (LazyLib, OmniFactory, coding examples)
Carabus (coding)
Kilomann (coding)
Trylobot (Nomad support)
Tecrys (DSTech Corp support)


Adding support for additional faction mods
Spoiler
Any mod that changes dialog plugins or does any sector/system generation is unlikely to be compatible with Exerelin.

If you wish to have another modded faction appear in Exerelin the following steps need to occur:
 - Ensure that the other mod is not attempting to load a ModPlugin
   - Check the mod_info.json file in the other mod and comment (#) the ModPlugin definition line
   - Alternative;
   - Rework the generator code in the other mods modPlugin in the following fashion:
Code
try
{
     Global.getSettings().getScriptClassLoader().loadClass("data.scripts.world.ExerelinGen");
     // Exerelin installed/activated, do nothing
}
catch (ClassNotFoundException ex)
{
// Run normal mod generation code
        new otherModGen().generate(Global.getSector());
}

 - Ensure that the other mod is not loading a CharacterCreationPlugin.
  - Either rename or remove the other mods CharacterCreationPlugin
 - Create <factionId>.json file in the Exerelin mod' data/config/exerelinFactionConfig/ folder
   - See existing <factionId>.json files for examples/format
   - Note: the 'uniqueModClassName' needs to be the name of a class unique to the other mod; modPlugin or generator files are usually a good bet.
   - Specify possible starting variants for your faction in 'startingVariants'
 - Add your factions factionId to data/config/exerelinConfig.json in the 'supportedModFactions' line
[close]

Removing Vanilla Factions
Spoiler
- Go to mods/Exerelin/config/exerelin_config.json
 - Change the builtInFactions array to include only those Vanilla factions you wish to have available
[close]

Getting involved with Exerelin's Development
Spoiler
Exerelin development is hosted on BitBucket (http://bitbucket.org) on a Git repository and is open if anyone wishes to join in.

If you would like to contribute changes to Exerelin please PM me the following details:
 - Your email or BitBucket username (NOTE: If you do not have a BitBucket username yet, please PM me your email so I can refer you and get a additional free user account)
 - Your reason for wanting to contribute
 - Any work you have done so far that you think should be included in Exerelin main (if you have done any yet)
 - Your plans for future development work (if you have any)

The repository is a public repository and is therefore open if anyone wishes to download the development build:
https://bitbucket.org/zaphide/exerelin/overview (https://bitbucket.org/zaphide/exerelin/overview)
Just use the link on the right of the overview page
OR
Downloads -> Branches -> master

Note that this version may be unstable from time to time.

If you have a BitBucket account you can also create issues and/or edit the Exerelin wiki if you so desire.
[close]


Changelog
Spoiler
Code
v0.644
- Updated support for batavia (v10)
- Updated support for Valkyrian (v1.4)

v0.643
- Added support for Lotus Conglomerate (v2.0)

- Updated citadel support (0.7.2)
- Updated support for Exigency v0.6

- Changed base level influence with faction (if player is a member of faction) to 60, down from 70

- Fixed some potential thread safe violations
- Fixed un-selectable ships in retrieve ships station option
- Fixed not being able to leave current faction from another factions station

v0.642
- Added faction nice names for initial faction selection

- Changed the effect of using High Value Prisoner and Agent
  - Prisoner exchange now has a more substantial effect if relationship between factions is terrible
  - Agent now has a greater effect if relationship between two factions is great
    - Can easily break alliances
- Access to large weapons is now restricted to 70+ influence with faction (thanks LazyWizard)
- Increased resource cost of extra large AI-controlled fleets
  - Should result in less extra large AI fleets when resources are abundant

- Updated compatibility for SHI latest DEV
- Updated compatibility for ICE
- Updated compatibility for P9

- Fixed joining a faction now sets all stations to balanced stance


v0.641
 - Fixed menu issue for OmniFactory and Personal Storage station


v0.64
 - Added faction influence mechanic
  - Access to technology and faction support is gated behind different influence levels
 - Added personal storage and personal hanger space in each station
  - Thank you Uomoz for USS example for hanger space, I was stumped for ages on the CR problem :)
 - Added support for Intersetellar Imperium
 - Added support for Exigency
 - Added support for Eleutheria Federation (Eternal Nox After)
 - Added start option to start with partially/fully populated sector
 - Added start option to start unaligned with any factions
 - Player can now join/leave factions
 - Added initial check on new game or load game for supported mod compatibility
 - Player (when unaligned) can now bribe for peace with a faction

 - Updated support for a huge number of mods
 - New games now start with factions owning 1 or more stations
 - Changed fleet compositions of AI fleets
  - Balanced, Carrier, Frigate, Large Ships and Medium Ships are possible fleet types
 - Crew now drop from battles
 - High value prisoners now drop from battles
 - Agents/Sabotuers now appear in factions stations (if player is a member of that faction)

 - Removed pirates as a playable faction
 - Removed faction skill tree
 - Removed alliance betrayal chance for factions in an alliance
 - Removed option for factions to respawn (temporary)

 - Fixed a bunch of stuffs :)

v0.632
- Added support for P.A.C.K

- Updated support for Valkyrian
- Updated support for Blackrock
- Updated support for P9
- Updated support for Mayorate

- Refactored mod support (for mod detection and starting variants)


v0.631
- StarSector 0.6.2 RC3 compatibility fixes

- Updated support for Hiigaran Descendants
- Updated support for P9
- Updated support for Tore Up Plenty


v0.63
- Added Station Fleet Command
- Added Strategic Fleet Command
- Independent Traders now have a small chance to deliver Tore Up Plenty ships (if installed)
- Added Station Status view

- Renamed Fleet Crew Training skill to Fleet Management
- Added Capital Ship Availability perk to Fleet Deployment skill (increases capital ship sale chance)
- Removed CapitalShipSaleReduction from exerelin_config.json (see above skill)
- Added complimentary faction-specific elite ship to Elite Ship Chance perk in Fleet Deployment skill (spawns in Storage Facility)
- Added effect to Elite Ship Chance perk to add a small chance that an elite ship will be for sale in stations

- Changed starting cargo for first stations
- Changed AI starting fleets to be same as player fleet

- Added Project Batavia support
- Added P9 Colony support
- Added support for Patrian Navy
- Added support for Mayorate
- Added support for DSTech Corp
- Updated support for Intersteller Federation
- Updated support for Valkyrian
- Updated support for ShadowYards
- Updated support for ORI
- Updated support for Zorg
- Updated support for Citadel Defenders
- Updated support for Hiigaran Decsendents
- Updated support for Blackrock Driveyards
- Updated support for Neutrino
- Updated support for Tore Up Plenty

- Fixed issue with calculating station efficiency after skills applied
- Fixed issue with running saboteur allocation code on each subsequent skill up
- Fixed issue with too many asteroid belts per system
- Fixed issue with station target priority within systems

- Moved more stuff into config.json file
- Removed reliance on static ExerelinData class (is now only used on game setup (ExerelinSetupData))
- Refactored a lot into a single JAR for ease


v0.623
- Added support for Foxer360's Citadel Defenders
- Added support for Runoved's ORI faction

- Slightly reduced number of trapezoid fighter wings for Zorg

- Moved Vatican II/III to normal fleet for Valkyrian faction


v0.622
 - Updated support for Zorg

 - Fixed NPE crash on load game


v0.621
- Updated support for Valkyrians
- Updated support for Zorg Hive
- Updated support for Nomads

- Slightly increased AI fleet deployment cost for bushi and hiigaran descendents

- Fixed diplomacy items not spawning more than once
- Fixed diplomacy item spawn chance calculation
- Fixed background image size on bluewhite background to remove black edges
- Fixed crash issue on load after selecting Active Diplomacy perk 1
- Fixed potential crash issue with gas mining fleets
  - Due to script queue issue on load
- Fixed crash issue with boarding fleets
  - Due to script queue issue on load


v0.62
- Added message history, displayable in any station
- Added additional star types and background pictures
- Player fleet will now 'stick' to planets/stations
  - Requires a second mouse click when close to the object

- Changed rebel fleet spawns to hopefully provide a more appropriate challenge
- Changed fleet commander personalities depending on fleet type

- Stations will now stock a stack of green, veteran and elite crew that builds up slowly
- Improved responsiveness of stations fleet spawning at start of game
- Added fleet destruction flash when boarding ships are destroyed in failed boarding attempt
- Leadership skill Advanced Tactics level 5 perk now improves marine station boarding effectiveness
- Saboteur now only requires 3 points in active diplomacy
- Gaining Saboteur perk now grants two saboteurs immeditaly
- Patrol fleets now prioritize own system first
- Stations now deploy extra mining fleets if efficiency > 1.8 (only when a faction respawns)
- Slightly increased spawn chance of diplomacy agents

- Updated support for Nomads
- Updated support for Zorg
- Updated support for Gedune

- Fixed spawn issue with Hiigaran and Bushi cargo ships
- Fixed incorrect marine supply usage from vanilla 0.6.1a
- Fixed crash issue with boarding fleets
- Fixed allowing use of mothballed ships for mining or station boarding
- Fixed occurence of catastrophic accidents on a faction's last station
- Fixed issue with asteroid belt radius being far too large
- Fixed some issues with resupply targets for fleets
- Fixed issue with attack fleets redirecting to abandonded stations on station target switch
- Fixed betray message to show faction real names
- Fixed incorrect hegemony faction color
- Fixed some missing variants/hulls for various factions
- Fixed issue with ally report
- Fixed weapon cargo reduction code

- Added exerelin_config settings for player wages and station transfer
  - Station transfer setting doesn't work until fixed in StarSector core
- Added config setting for capital ship sale reduction
- Added faction specific configuration settings (see data/config/exerelinFactionConfig)
- Added exerelin config setting for loading custom faction configs
- Added configurable option for new stars/backgrounds


0.61
 - Added 2 and 6 system options
 - Added faction alliance and faction enemy reports to stations
 - Added experience gain to mining

 - Changed respawn ship to now be exactly which start ship was picked at start of game
 - Changed some Rebel fleets to more closely align to the players fleet size
 - Changed Rebels to spawn right from start of game
 - Player can no longer attack independent and neutral fleets
 - Fleets will now be correctly ordered from capital to fighters
 - Doubled the amount of resources transferred in Logistics Convoys
 - Sector generation will now only build wormholes if more than 1 system
 - Changed if one system is selected, planet/asteroid/station amounts selected at startup are actual rather than maximums
 - Reduced patrol fleets per station to 1
 - Set supply costs to 1/4 of vanilla starsector (see data/campaign/resources.csv to change)
 - Save compression is now on by default

 - Updated support for Zorg
 - Added support for Kadur Theocracy (regime and insurgency)
 - Updated support for Gedune
 - Updated support for Syndicate ASP
 - Updated support for Hiigaran Descendants
 - Updated support for Bushi
 - Updated OmniFac to 1.8 (added OmniFac settings file)
 - Updated support for Balckrock Driveyards

 - Added config settings (data/config/exerelin_config.json) for minimum planet/asteroid/station amounts
 - Added config setting to have OmniFactory spawn in a random system, on a random planet, off by default
 - Added config settings for station trading lockouts
 - Added config settings for supplies loot reduction
 - Added config settings for Asteroid mining

 - Fixed crash with 'only respawn starting factions' option and vanilla only factions
 - Fixed Rebels from attacking omnifactory/storage
 - Fixed issue with command fleets not despawning when there are no station to takeover
 - Fixed issue with Command Fleets resupply location
 - Fixed Omnifactory free transfer
 - Fixed absurdly rare crash bug in AI fleet station capturing
 - Fixed issue with saboteur not correctly removing cargo/marines/crew/ships at station
 - Fixed issue with factions not using an allies station as resupply location in a system they are attacking
 - Fixed further issues with resupply locations for fleets
 - Fixed diplomacy messages to use correct faction name rather than id


v0.6
 - Added multi system support
   - Select from 1 -> 24 systems
 - Added faction skill tree (position below empty industry skill tree)
   - Added saboteur agent unlocked in skill tree

 - Changed Independent faction to Sindrian Diktat
 - Changed TradeGuild faction to Independent
 - Changed Rebel faction to always be hostile
   - Rebels now spawn periodically in systems
   - Faction fleets in systems that are 100% owned by a faction have a chance to defect
 - Changed station dialog so that hostile/neutral stations cannot be used for trade, refit or repair
 - Changed so that player factions allies stations will have ally factions ships/weapons available for sale

 - Removed out system supply convoys
 - Removed out system reinforcements event
 - Removed supply fleet defection event

 - Updated support for 0.6 compatible versions of Junk Pirate, Bushi, Hiigaran Descendants, Shadowyards HI, Zorg, Gedune, Neutrino faction mods
   - WARNING: Bushi, Hiigaran, Junk Pirates, Shadowyards HI faction mods need their modPlugin definition in mod_info.json commented out(#)

- Fixed issue with alliance ending not correctly applying new relationship status


v0.58
 - Added small possibility of industrial ships (and mining wings) appearing in stations
 - Added support for running the Bushi and Hiigaran Descendants mods in conjunction with Exerelin

 - Changed Exerelin to no longer be a total conversion to support above change

 - Fixed possible duplicate station names
 - Fixed issue with StarSector FactionAPI's not getting updated properly on Exerelin alliance changes

 - Changed SyndicateASP mining fleet to 2 drone wings, two transports

v0.57
- Added 'prisoner of war' item that can be traded to other factions to increase relationship
- Added 'agent' item that can be traded to other factions to cause a rift between 2 factions (10% chance to backfire)
- Added player mining for fuel (gas planets) and supplies (asteroids)

- Changed neutral colour to tradeguild colour

- Fixed IFed station attack fleets not passing isValidStationAttackFleet check
- Fixed bug with distance based relationship calculation
- Fixed message missing from Alliance Betrayal if only 2 in alliance
- Fixed bug when player attacked one of their allies, not correctly handling alliance

- Alliance Betrayal is now less likely


v0.56
- Added asteroid mining fleets for stations
  - Mining fleets go to the nearest asteroid and slowly mine to create supplies
- Added gas mining fleets for stations
  - Mining fleets go to the nearest gas giant and slowly mine to create fuel
- Added escort ships to supply and station attack fleets
  - Extra escorts in wartime
- Added new alliance mechanics
  - If two factions are allied, they must now also each be at war with each others enemies (think coalitions)
  - Once in an alliance, a factions diplomacy is handled by the alliance until they leave the alliance
- Added starting option to set system size at 15000(small), 30000(medium) and 40000(large)
  - An additional asteroid belt is added around star per system size increase
- Added starting option to start with nine other factions
- Added starting option to respawn factions only up to the starting number (will cycle through factions)
- Added starting option to have no asteroid belts (apart from one around the star)

- Changed system to always spawn with an asteroid belt around the star
- Changed system to spawn with at least one gas giant
- Changed Patrol Fleets to take on extra assignments (raid, attack) when at war
- Changed attack, defense and patrol fleets to not have civilian ships
- Changed In System Supply Convoys (spawned form stations) to also deliver ships/weapons if delivering to player stations
- Changed Allied In System Supply Convoys to deliver allied faction ships/weapons if delivering to player stations
- Changed Rebels to always be hostile to Trade Guild

- Fixed a null reference exception with in system supply convoys
- Fixed issue with catastrophic station accidents not occurring
- Fixed (another) issue with ships/weapons not clearing properly on station takeover
- Fixed issue where factions could respawn even though respawn was off
- Fixed issue calculating last faction in certain circumstances
- Fixed issue where trade guild conversions could happen multiple times to same supply fleet
- Fixed issue with stations not updating at the correct rate
- Fixed fleet cost calculation issue
- Fixed issue with trade guild converted fleets not correctly despawning in some situations
- Fixed issue on loading save games not loading the correct settings before doing anything else

- Factions are less likely to declare war on factions that are far away
- Various resource level and transfer amount changes to account for new mining fleets
- Added some missing ships to IFed
- Removed Sparrow as a start ship for Council, and reduced the likelihood of it spawning
- Added cooldown time between system events, and the same system event cannot occur twice in a row

v0.55
 - Changed number of defense fleets per station to 2
 - Changed number of attack fleets per station to 2

 - Fixed null pointer error in reinforcement event
 - Fixed spam of station boarding message
 - Fixed random extra characters in station boarding warning message
 - Fixed spawn issue with in system supply convoys
 - Fixed situation where faction could declare war on itself(!)

 - Increased maximum fleet sizes for all fleets
 - Slightly reduced maximum station takeover time for out system fleets

v0.54
 - Changed reinforcement fleets to pick a more appropriate attack location
   - They also have a chance to defend an under attack station of their faction

 - Fixed issue with starting with one less faction than specified in the system setup
 - Fixed issue with supply convoys stopping delivering resources
 - Fixed issue with the rebel insurrection event (far too few or far too many fleets were switching to rebels)
 - Fixed issue with weapons not being removed correctly when over 30
 - Fixed issue with ships not being removed correctly when over 25
 - Fixed issue with ships not clearing from a station when taken over

 - Slightly increased the resource cost of factions deploying capitals and fighters
 - Slightly reduced  the resource cost of factions deploying cruisers


0.53
 - Added possibility of out system reinforcement fleets for non-leading factions
   - Attack a random enemy station
 - Added possibility of a station explosion destroying resources/weapons/ships and causing a loss in efficiency for a time period
   - Remote possibility of a catastrophic accident causing station to be abandoned
 - Added possibility of a station seceding from a faction to another faction
   - Currently only implemented for factions not present in Exerelin but will be expanded
 - Added Trade Guild Traders
   - Go from station to station and trade resources
   - Will trade to player stations ships/weapons from previous stations faction

 - Changed station names to be unique
 - Changed player to actually be their chosen faction (rather than appear as Player independent Attack Fleet it will now appear as Independent Attack Fleet)
   - Players faction fleets/stations now have appropriate faction colour
   - On respawn after a total defeat, player now starts from one of their stations
   - On respawn after a total defeat, player starts with a frigate from their faction
   - On start or respawn player fleet will now start with appropriate crew/supplies/fuel levels
 - Changed station attack fleets to hover over station they are attacking rather than fly around
   - Changed boarding timer to be different each time
 - Changed rebel fleet insurrection numbers to base off system ownership level
 - Changed neutral colour from grey to invisible (for Omnifactory and Storage)
 
- If ships/weapons are being added to a station over 25/30 it will now remove some weapons
   - Should result in a cycle of ships/weapons through stations
 - Patrol fleets now help defend own factions stations under attack
   - Also will help defend allied stations under attack
 - In System Supply Fleets prioritise own stations under attack
   - Also will help allied stations under attack

 - Further reduced likelihood of small fleets with a capital ship in them

 - Fixed "Varient Id of [Varient ID] not found" error (my silly error)
 - Fixed missing wraith and storm lancer for Valkyrian


0.52
 - Added Thules Legacy faction
 - Added a Atlas with appropriate engine color for Gedune, Blackrock, Valkyrian, Thule, Shadowyards, Antedilivian factions
 - Changed IFed Atlas to Mazerk
 - Changed names for attack/defense/patrol fleets depending on size
 - Changed periodical station resource injection to include ship/weapons for player
 - Fixed incorrect resource delivery amount on out system attack fleet
 - Fixed missing base cost value for nihil Anti fighter wing
 - Fixed rare null pointer crash on station takeover

 - Updated IFed to 1.25

 - Reduced chance of small fleets with a capital ship
 - Reduced chance of capital ships being delivered to player stations
 - Faction relationships now affected by allies of allies, enemies of allies, allies of enemies and enemies of enemies
 - Lowered relationship impacts on other factions when war/peace/alliance declared between two factions
   - The above two changes should increase the chance of alliance of factions vs alliance of other factions wars
   - It should also prolong an alliance war (even if the factions come and go from the alliance)
 - There is now a low possibility that an alliance can end and result in a war between the two previously allied factions
 - Player initiated wars now have the following consequences
   - Lowers player relationship a bit with factions neutral to faction player attacked
   - Lowers player relationship a lot with factions allied to faction player attacked
   - Raises player relationship with factions at war to faction player attacked


0.51
 - Added Nihilic Empire faction
 - Added Storage Facility for player, will be delivered and built at closest planet after getting first station
 - Added Atlas with blue engine flame for appropriate factions
 - Added option to only respawn starting factions
 - Removed option to get free transfer at player owned stations

 - Changed OmniFac to be delivered and built at closest planet after player gets first station
 - Changed initial station distribution to be more regular
 - Changed initial planet distribution to be more regular
 - Changed Rebel mechanic to cause some of the leading factions fleets to rebel against that faction
 - Change TradeGuild mechanic to cause factions (other than the faction coming last) supply fleets to support the faction coming last

 - Fixed issue with finding a random station for a faction
 - Fixed Relic Faithoper, Extinctioner and Queen requiring no crew
 - Fixed Relic Faithoper (player available hull) not having built in weapon
 - Fixed issue with out-system cargo fleet not delivering correct resource amount
 - Fixed issue with spawning fleets sometimes being extremely accident prone
 - Fixed issue with incorrect target station for out system attack fleets
 - Fixed issue calculating fleet cost from resources (was over charging)
 - Fixed missing Council faction ships in fleets

 - Station takeover now has an impact on  faction relationships
 - War weariness now only affects ongoing wars, not all relationships
 - War, peace and alliance declaration now affect inter-relationships of all factions in system to some degree
 - Increased Attack, Defense, Patrol, Out System Attack max fleet sizes
 - Reduced number of attack and defense fleets (to 3 per station)
 - Allies can now send to supplies to each other if they have a surplus


0.5
 - Added Interstellar Federation
 - Added Relics (Purifiers + Elder)
 - Added OmniFactory option
 - Added missing weapons from Hegemony, TriTachyon, Pirate, Independent, Neutrino convoys
 - Added missing ships from Neutrino faction
 - Changed faction selection list to split over two screens
 - Fixed issue where In-System supply fleets could spawn with less than minimum crew


0.41
 - Changed rebel fleet to not hang around quite as long
 - Fixed an issue with diplomacy relationship calculations
 - Slightly reduced the penalty applied to a players dropped off resources


0.4
 - Added neutrino faction
 - Added new diplomacy system
   - Added war weariness for faction fighting constantly in a war
   - Added dislike for leading faction and like for losing faction
   - Added check for player betrayal and peace treaty break
 - Added extra system size start config options
 - Added start config to set starting number of attack fleets
   - Added vanilla only settings for starting factions
   - Added start config for respawn wait time (if respawn is selected)
 - Added extra starting ships for each faction
 - Added patrol fleets that spawn from station
 - Added ship systems to Nomad and LotusConglomerate factions

 - Changed the balance of some factions slightly
 - Changed valkyrian and council fleet composition slightly
 - Changed off map attack fleets to spawn more fleets if target station is rich (up to 3)
 - Changed Attack/Defense fleets to respond faster to relationship changes
 - Changed number of rebel fleets to take into account number of stations
 - Changed rebel fleets to spawn less frequently

 - Fixed out system attack fleets dropping too many resources sometimes
 - Fixed (hopefully) 0 crew/fuel/supplies/marines bug


0.32
 - Fixed some Exerelin setup data not correctly passing across quit/crash of StarSector


0.31
 - Fixed Shadowyards variants used in fleets


0.3
 - Added custom factions
   - shadowyards, syndicateasp, junkpirate, nomad, council, blackrock, antediluvian, valkyrian, lotusconglomerate, gedune
 - Added Exerelin system setup options when starting a new game
   - Number of planets, asteroid belts, stations, faction respawn
 - Added small wage paid weekly when playing with the option 'paying for things'
 - Changed out system faction fleets to not appear until 6 months have passed
 - Slightly reduced amount of fuel and crew generated in stations
 - Slightly reduced amount of all resources generated and delivered for players faction


0.2
 - Added faction rebel blockades
   - Will target 1 or 2 of a leading factions stations and attempt to blockade it, wasting valuable resources for that faction
 - Added trade guild supply runs
   - Will attempt to deliver resources to a lagging faction to give them a bit of help
 - Changed out system fleets to conquer stations immediately at start of game
 - Changed out system fleets only come when faction is not in system
 - Changed station attack ships to spawn less
 - Changed as many references to player to say players chosen faction
 - Increased likelihood of pd weapons for independent
 - Renamed inter-system fleets to in-system fleets


0.11  
 - Added faction weapon sets
 - Added delay on station capture
 - Increased faction respawn chance if wiped out
 - Player faction will respawn immediatly if wiped out
 - Added a check to ensure planet name only applied once
 - A few other bits and pieces


0.1  
 - Initial Release

[close]

Note: Please contact me if you wish to use Exerelin in your own creations. Also, as the extra factions are not my work, please contact their creator (or me, and I will forward the request on).

Please leave any feedback, issues, suggestions etc. and we will endeavor to improve Exerelin!

Happy playing!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Sproginator on April 20, 2013, 06:58:27 AM
Screens please? :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Upgradecap on April 20, 2013, 07:24:23 AM
Oh damn. Mind if integrate this into a few mods of mine? Saves me (and wizzy, in the long run :P) a ton of work. :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Teh_Wolf on April 20, 2013, 09:38:50 AM
Only been playing it for 5 minutes, but I already love it!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 20, 2013, 09:47:44 AM
suddenly a mysterious Zaphide appears
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Sproginator on April 20, 2013, 09:50:21 AM
I'll play this tonight and, if it's good, make a playthrough :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Talkie Toaster on April 20, 2013, 10:00:30 AM
Ah, this is pretty nice. Is the number of factions randomised? I've got a system with just 'player' (Independent, I assume, as that's who I selected during chargen) and the pirates. Will TriTach/Hegemony show up later, or did I just end up with a 2-person system by chance?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Teh_Wolf on April 20, 2013, 10:31:36 AM
Ah, this is pretty nice. Is the number of factions randomised? I've got a system with just 'player' (Independent, I assume, as that's who I selected during chargen) and the pirates. Will TriTach/Hegemony show up later, or did I just end up with a 2-person system by chance?
I got a 2-faction system as well :/
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 20, 2013, 10:36:14 AM
as a Tri-Tach's i got 2 as well , pirates & hegemony

Edited: just remember that I smash 1'st independents fleet at the very beginning ;p
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 20, 2013, 11:37:37 AM
Well, guess that makes my mod obsolete

not that i mind, exar wasnt very well written

nice job! Will try once able

EDIT: WOW!!! The awesomeness! I'm beyond words :)

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 20, 2013, 12:12:32 PM
no worry Gunny, old dogs remember your mod ;)

@Zaphide it would be lovley if defited factions spawn a bigger asault-captured fleet so they can comeback to the game after time (3 months or more ) cuz well... i'm.... well I LOST :D somehow tri-bastards rule all the stations & nothing mine or other faction is spawning :)

Edited: New game , 4 starting fleets (includes player) TriTech 2x no hegemony (i'm a independents)
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/uMBtIKR.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 20, 2013, 01:03:21 PM
I'm on my 2nd month right now and there's 0 missile weapons in the whole system... does this  change the further in i go?

Also when stations get captured (from other factions, not abandoned) they don't change color, might want to look into that
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: phyrex on April 20, 2013, 01:56:33 PM
whats the difference between paying for things and getting them free ? i mean, why wouldnt i want free stuff ?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 20, 2013, 02:58:08 PM
balance, I'd think...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: phyrex on April 20, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
balance, I'd think...

could you be more specific ?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 20, 2013, 03:07:23 PM
getting things for free gets boring since you can easily get a huge fleet (take all the reserve in your faction) and steamroll everyone
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: phyrex on April 20, 2013, 03:10:18 PM
getting things for free gets boring since you can easily get a huge fleet (take all the reserve in your faction) and steamroll everyone

well thats not how its been going for me up to now. if anything, my current save would have been absolutely unplayable if it wasent for me choosing free stuff at the start
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 20, 2013, 03:17:07 PM
getting things for free gets boring since you can easily get a huge fleet (take all the reserve in your faction) and steamroll everyone

well thats not how its been going for me up to now. if anything, my current save would have been absolutely unplayable if it wasent for me choosing free stuff at the start
well i chose "pay" option at the first time & it was OK
but then i'll start a NEW game (dunno why) & i choosen FREE option & if your not plaing as Tritech's your done
i think theres way TOO many atlas/capture ships spawning ,or is it just me ?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: phyrex on April 20, 2013, 03:21:06 PM
when not playing as tri-tach would screw me up ?
(i might have an idea, right now im allied to them but in my save, they have huuuuuge fleet defending theire based while mine are all tiny :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 20, 2013, 03:21:33 PM
@the SONY: not just you.... camping for lone atlases and selling off the copious amount of supplies + fuel has made me much profit
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Zaphide on April 20, 2013, 03:22:28 PM
Oh damn. Mind if integrate this into a few mods of mine? Saves me (and wizzy, in the long run :P) a ton of work. :D

No problem  :)

Ah, this is pretty nice. Is the number of factions randomised? I've got a system with just 'player' (Independent, I assume, as that's who I selected during chargen) and the pirates. Will TriTach/Hegemony show up later, or did I just end up with a 2-person system by chance?

Yep, starting factiosn are randomised. Every once in a while a faction that is not active in the system will respawn an out system fleet to try to take back a station (and hopefully more from there!).

no worry Gunny, old dogs remember your mod ;)

@Zaphide it would be lovley if defited factions spawn a bigger asault-captured fleet so they can comeback to the game after time (3 months or more ) cuz well... i'm.... well I LOST :D somehow tri-bastards rule all the stations & nothing mine or other faction is spawning :)

Edited: New game , 4 starting fleets (includes player) TriTech 2x no hegemony (i'm a independents)
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/uMBtIKR.png)
[close]

Yep I need to add a quick comeback fleet for the player (will be in next version) :)

I'm on my 2nd month right now and there's 0 missile weapons in the whole system... does this  change the further in i go?

Also when stations get captured (from other factions, not abandoned) they don't change color, might want to look into that

Stations can't change color, unfortuantely a limitation of the vanilla game (unless I have missed something?)

And yeah the weapons thing can be annoying, more weapons get delivered by the supply fleets but it can be slim pickings at the start. I may need to up the number that are delivered per supply convoy :)

getting things for free gets boring since you can easily get a huge fleet (take all the reserve in your faction) and steamroll everyone

well thats not how its been going for me up to now. if anything, my current save would have been absolutely unplayable if it wasent for me choosing free stuff at the start

This is actually why I included the free option. Due to the randomness of it all, it can sometimes work out very difficult, and the free stuff takes the edge off. Also, when a faction conquers another factions station the cargo in that station is cleared.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Zaphide on April 20, 2013, 03:24:00 PM
getting things for free gets boring since you can easily get a huge fleet (take all the reserve in your faction) and steamroll everyone

well thats not how its been going for me up to now. if anything, my current save would have been absolutely unplayable if it wasent for me choosing free stuff at the start
well i chose "pay" option at the first time & it was OK
but then i'll start a NEW game (dunno why) & i choosen FREE option & if your not plaing as Tritech's your done
i think theres way TOO many atlas/capture ships spawning ,or is it just me ?

Yeah it could possibly do with a tonedown. As noted below above though, it can be a good way to scum for some money if you choose the pay option (especially if you can board one).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: phyrex on April 20, 2013, 03:57:49 PM
ok so...im playing tri-tach now and im only receiving ballistic weapons...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 21, 2013, 03:09:54 AM
nice mod, again. Just getting a bearing on how these things work right now.

a few suggestions/things I'd like to point out:

a) faction specific weapon delivery (no tachyon lance for hegemony, for example)

b) faction specific ships (tri-tach don't use tarsus, they use buffalo)

c) maybe lengthier take over process (something more than just an atlas landing)

what I did for Exar was I had the take over fleet (which, given, is a huge armada instead of a lone ship) hovering on the station for about 2 weeks before finishing the capture, this more or less eliminates "ninja capping" whereby the defenders are distracted while an atlas sneaks in and clears the station's supplies
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Zaphide on April 21, 2013, 03:27:21 AM
nice mod, again. Just getting a bearing on how these things work right now.

a few suggestions/things I'd like to point out:

a) faction specific weapon delivery (no tachyon lance for hegemony, for example)

b) faction specific ships (tri-tach don't use tarsus, they use buffalo)

c) maybe lengthier take over process (something more than just an atlas landing)

what I did for Exar was I had the take over fleet (which, given, is a huge armada instead of a lone ship) hovering on the station for about 2 weeks before finishing the capture, this more or less eliminates "ninja capping" whereby the defenders are distracted while an atlas sneaks in and clears the station's supplies

Thanks Gunny, really appreciate the feedback! I've actually already added your suggestions a and b into my own dev version already (along with a few other bits and bobs) so they'll be in the next version :)

As for c yeah I agree the ninja capping is a bit of an issue, but I quite like the vulnerable single atlas doing the takeover bit as it can allow you to defend a station with a small fleet (while dodging all the big fleets!) Perhaps it shouldn't be instantaneous, that would probably fix the ninja issue, as a single atlas runs away from pretty much anything.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 21, 2013, 05:42:58 AM
i had 3-4 battles with "friendly" faction & still Friendly ^^
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: phyrex on April 21, 2013, 09:58:40 AM
having faction specific weapons being delivered is the biggest problem i hope gets solved soon.

i played tri-tach for super long the other night and i was having the hardest time ever to deck the few ship i had. i kept getting ballistic weapons. large one more often than smaller one too !
even if i had played hegemony i would be in doodoo
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 21, 2013, 10:14:34 AM
having faction specific weapons being delivered is the biggest problem i hope gets solved soon.

i played tri-tach for super long the other night and i was having the hardest time ever to deck the few ship i had. i kept getting ballistic weapons. large one more often than smaller one too !
even if i had played hegemony i would be in doodoo
its just like RPG Diablo like games , play as barbarian get rouge/sorcerer epic loot :D


PS: sad thing is sad, when you conQer the whole system finally i can look myself in the mirror  ;D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 21, 2013, 11:36:43 AM
hmm...

I just started a new game and 3 planets are called Sanctuary....

Maybe you should remove a name from the list after you use it
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Decer304 on April 21, 2013, 11:11:00 PM
I tried runnig it, it just kept crashing my game. It said that there was a compiling error.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: PCCL on April 21, 2013, 11:16:53 PM
do u have lazylib?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: Decer304 on April 22, 2013, 12:12:17 AM
Whats that? I probably dont have it. So from you asking it, i'm assuming that i should get it right?

EDIT: Derp. I never read the full post. didnt see it says that it was a requirement.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod
Post by: theSONY on April 22, 2013, 01:13:12 AM
Whats that? I probably dont have it. So from you asking it, i'm assuming that i should get it right?

EDIT: Derp. I never read the full post. didnt see it says that it was a requirement.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5444.0
download it , EXTRACT it, put in mod folder , check in as a regular mode when starting game, have fun
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Zaphide on April 22, 2013, 02:07:22 AM
Thanks all for the feedback (especially gunny!), I've uploaded a new version with a few changes that should hopefully help out a bit.

Code
0.11 - Added faction weapon sets
     - Added delay on station capture
     - Increased faction respawn chance if wiped out
       - Player faction will respawn immediatly if wiped out
     - Added check to ensure planet name only applied once
     - A few other bits and pieces
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: theSONY on April 22, 2013, 04:47:23 AM
1'st game - so far so good, glad about capture delay :) wish i have more time to check it all out BUT... time is a penny & i need MY PENNY !!
but as for now i can tell there's no such issue with the camping just to NOT let any capture fleets to take over your last bastion (station) ;p
PS: hope there will be next version (if needed ;p) till weekend :) so i can play some
PS2: still problem with "Friendly's" player can ( i think) hunt them with no consequences
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: NITROtbomb on April 22, 2013, 07:55:04 AM
played as independents and on two separate saves are getting no supply convoys so i am stuck with captured buffalos and the starter ship any ideas
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: ganjou234 on April 22, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
I haven't tried the mod yet, but I wanted to ask a question. Does it include a feature where the faction you just conquered, after a few days, would try to retaliate with many gigantic fleets and you'd have to defend your newly claimed territory. Kinda like an event. EVENT : Hegemony Reclaimer fleet Inbound....


just askin :D  ???
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: ciago92 on April 22, 2013, 12:42:09 PM
trying out the mod and loving it! I have to ask, is it possible to mix this and UC? I would love to see that happen but I have none of the skills needed to make it happen on my own. Anybody know how to do that/already done it? thanks!

edit: also, suggestion. I think it would be nice if we could set some constants at the beginning of the game rather than have it all be random. number of factions, number of planets, that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: phyrex on April 22, 2013, 01:02:09 PM
hum...so i started a new game as tri-tach and got all factions to spawn.
i guess ship flying stupidly around a station for 90seconds (i timed it) is how you stop "ninja capping" (its horribly annoying to watch, especially when its with you first fleet after game start and enemy ship capture the base while turning around it for half the time (i also timed it).

and err...so im 20minutes in. everyone captured like 3 stations on average. i decide to attack hegemony atlas ship to delay them. after some raids i go back to HQ
and theres this huge out-of-system hegemony fleet camping my base (a planet with 3 stations around it).

erhm...i dont recall that faction having any trouble surviving up to now in my game. where the **** did that fleet come from ?

not to be vulgar, its just a nice mod that i cant enjoy because i keep encountering dumb/frustrating moment like those
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Talkie Toaster on April 22, 2013, 01:38:05 PM
Having played for a while, this is definitely great.

Another few questions, though:
1. Are we supposed to be unable to buy weapons/ships from neutral/friendly factions? Their stations, even ones that've been established for quite a long time, only ever seem to have crew and cargo.
2. What sort of metric is used to determine how many fleets a station spawns, and is there a cap? So
2a. If we take weapons/fuel/cargo from defeated fleets and drop them in our own stations, will that improve them?
2b. If we have 1 station with say 2000 cargo, are we better off manually transporting 1000 cargo to a station with none?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Uomoz on April 22, 2013, 02:41:57 PM
trying out the mod and loving it! I have to ask, is it possible to mix this and UC? I would love to see that happen but I have none of the skills needed to make it happen on my own. Anybody know how to do that/already done it? thanks!

edit: also, suggestion. I think it would be nice if we could set some constants at the beginning of the game rather than have it all be random. number of factions, number of planets, that kind of stuff.

I like this concept, if you need any help integrating something from the community I have a lot of interesting stuff (like weapon_ids and ship_ids lists for all modded factions, divided by tiers and classes to have very specific drop lists).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Zaphide on April 22, 2013, 02:47:41 PM
played as independents and on two separate saves are getting no supply convoys so i am stuck with captured buffalos and the starter ship any ideas

Sorry, that hasn't happened to me. :( Maybe delete the Exerelin mod folder (and maybe LazyLib) and re-download

I haven't tried the mod yet, but I wanted to ask a question. Does it include a feature where the faction you just conquered, after a few days, would try to retaliate with many gigantic fleets and you'd have to defend your newly claimed territory. Kinda like an event. EVENT : Hegemony Reclaimer fleet Inbound....


just askin :D  ???

Yep if a faction is knocked out (or doesn't start) it has a chance to come back with a large fleet and hopefully conquer a station.

trying out the mod and loving it! I have to ask, is it possible to mix this and UC? I would love to see that happen but I have none of the skills needed to make it happen on my own. Anybody know how to do that/already done it? thanks!

edit: also, suggestion. I think it would be nice if we could set some constants at the beginning of the game rather than have it all be random. number of factions, number of planets, that kind of stuff.

You can but it is a bit fiddly. I've included some instructions in the first post but understandably they are not very straightforward. I'll try and work out a better way.

And yeah, I'll expand the constant selection at the start to include things like that. On my things to do list :)

hum...so i started a new game as tri-tach and got all factions to spawn.
i guess ship flying stupidly around a station for 90seconds (i timed it) is how you stop "ninja capping" (its horribly annoying to watch, especially when its with you first fleet after game start and enemy ship capture the base while turning around it for half the time (i also timed it).

and err...so im 20minutes in. everyone captured like 3 stations on average. i decide to attack hegemony atlas ship to delay them. after some raids i go back to HQ
and theres this huge out-of-system hegemony fleet camping my base (a planet with 3 stations around it).

erhm...i dont recall that faction having any trouble surviving up to now in my game. where the **** did that fleet come from ?

not to be vulgar, its just a nice mod that i cant enjoy because i keep encountering dumb/frustrating moment like those

No worries, all feedback is good! Out system attack fleets (other than the starting ones) will hang round and defend the station they conquer, which can be annoying at the start of the game. I might put a timer so that only happens after 6 months of game time or similar.

Having played for a while, this is definitely great.

Another few questions, though:
1. Are we supposed to be unable to buy weapons/ships from neutral/friendly factions? Their stations, even ones that've been established for quite a long time, only ever seem to have crew and cargo.
2. What sort of metric is used to determine how many fleets a station spawns, and is there a cap? So
2a. If we take weapons/fuel/cargo from defeated fleets and drop them in our own stations, will that improve them?
2b. If we have 1 station with say 2000 cargo, are we better off manually transporting 1000 cargo to a station with none?

1. No, other factions weapons and ships are only available via combat. The idea is to keep a factionish feel and make the starting faction choice meaningful.
2. Max 5 attack fleets and 5 defense fleets per station. They will differ in size depending on available resources.
2a. Crew, Fuel, Marines and Supplies are used to build fleets (the amount depends on the number of ships in the fleet). If you give supplies/fuel/crew/marines to your stations the should spawn faster/larger fleets but you need to have enough of each resource.
2b. I suspect so, but there are inter-system convoys that do this for you (to a degree). They trigger off at 2000 of a resource and transfer in lots of 500. So if you have 2000 fuel and supplies at a station a inter-system convoy will transport 500 fuel and 500 supplies, reducing the station to 1500 of each. Also, whatever planet type (gas, normal, moon) determines extra resources a station gets periodically. gas = fuel, normal planet = crew/marines and moon = supplies.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Sproginator on April 22, 2013, 02:51:39 PM
This seems rather cool and unique :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: NITROtbomb on April 22, 2013, 05:51:28 PM
nah it was just some of the other mods that conflicted lol got rid of those now it works :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: PCCL on April 22, 2013, 09:28:01 PM
more language nitpicking I'm afraid :P

the prefix "inter-" means between, not within. So international means between nations and intercontinental means between continents

therefore, by calling fleets "inter-system" you're saying they operate between different systems, not that they operate within the system. For that, "in-system" would be more appropriate, and the current "out-system" could be named "inter-system" instead

damn that makes me feel like a nitpicking ****, again, great mod and all, I'm not saying it's bad by any means, hope you don't take it as such :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: ciago92 on April 22, 2013, 10:07:07 PM
you may want to clean up system generation a little bit. that's four stations pretty much over top of each other. two to each planet, which are almost colliding. not a huge deal, just threw me for a bit.

also @ Uomoz I wish, but I haven't the foggiest idea where to start combining this and yours lol. if anyone else does and needs a bugtester or anything I will gladly step up, but I don't have the coding skills myself to do so lol



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Zaphide on April 22, 2013, 10:53:12 PM
more language nitpicking I'm afraid :P

the prefix "inter-" means between, not within. So international means between nations and intercontinental means between continents

therefore, by calling fleets "inter-system" you're saying they operate between different systems, not that they operate within the system. For that, "in-system" would be more appropriate, and the current "out-system" could be named "inter-system" instead

damn that makes me feel like a nitpicking ****, again, great mod and all, I'm not saying it's bad by any means, hope you don't take it as such :)

Haha your right, weird I never noticed that! I will change inter to just in but I think I will leave out system as out, a bit easier to identify when just looking at the names :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Talkie Toaster on April 23, 2013, 12:15:37 AM
1. No, other factions weapons and ships are only available via combat. The idea is to keep a factionish feel and make the starting faction choice meaningful.
2. Max 5 attack fleets and 5 defense fleets per station. They will differ in size depending on available resources.
2a. Crew, Fuel, Marines and Supplies are used to build fleets (the amount depends on the number of ships in the fleet). If you give supplies/fuel/crew/marines to your stations the should spawn faster/larger fleets but you need to have enough of each resource.
2b. I suspect so, but there are inter-system convoys that do this for you (to a degree). They trigger off at 2000 of a resource and transfer in lots of 500. So if you have 2000 fuel and supplies at a station a inter-system convoy will transport 500 fuel and 500 supplies, reducing the station to 1500 of each. Also, whatever planet type (gas, normal, moon) determines extra resources a station gets periodically. gas = fuel, normal planet = crew/marines and moon = supplies.
Ah, okay. Thanks for elaborating.

therefore, by calling fleets "inter-system" you're saying they operate between different systems, not that they operate within the system. For that, "in-system" would be more appropriate, and the current "out-system" could be named "inter-system" instead
As a counter-nitpick, the opposite of inter- would be intra- (but the two words are pretty awkwardly similar).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: arcibalde on April 23, 2013, 12:41:04 AM


Haha your right, weird I never noticed that! I will change inter to just in but I think I will leave out system as out, a bit easier to identify when just looking at the names :)
Why not: inner system and outer system?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Zaphide on April 23, 2013, 01:07:16 AM
trying out the mod and loving it! I have to ask, is it possible to mix this and UC? I would love to see that happen but I have none of the skills needed to make it happen on my own. Anybody know how to do that/already done it? thanks!

edit: also, suggestion. I think it would be nice if we could set some constants at the beginning of the game rather than have it all be random. number of factions, number of planets, that kind of stuff.

I like this concept, if you need any help integrating something from the community I have a lot of interesting stuff (like weapon_ids and ship_ids lists for all modded factions, divided by tiers and classes to have very specific drop lists).

Thanks Uomoz, I definitely want to expand it to include other factions and I would probably like to start with some of the ones from Uomoz Corvus! Exerelin already supports other factions, I was hoping to have it just pick up factions from other mods you had installed but I don't think that will be possible (yet), and that leaves bundling other mods with Exerelin. No problem but I want to get the OK from mod authors before bundling their stuff :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Talkie Toaster on April 23, 2013, 11:21:05 AM
Why not: inner system and outer system?
Those terms would both refer to 'intra-system' fleets. Really, in-system and out-system works best.

I've found an interesting little bug:
1. 0-count crew stack in a station (http://i.imgur.com/P9PGA3o.png)
2. That apparently is infinitely large when picked up (http://i.imgur.com/rTV1QEb.png)

Also, could the number of PD weapons per shipment get upped? It's actually quite hard to load out Eagles with enough PD playing as Independent.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: Zaphide on April 23, 2013, 06:17:56 PM
Why not: inner system and outer system?
Those terms would both refer to 'intra-system' fleets. Really, in-system and out-system works best.

I've found an interesting little bug:
1. 0-count crew stack in a station (http://i.imgur.com/P9PGA3o.png)
2. That apparently is infinitely large when picked up (http://i.imgur.com/rTV1QEb.png)

Also, could the number of PD weapons per shipment get upped? It's actually quite hard to load out Eagles with enough PD playing as Independent.

Yeah can't quite seem to chase that issue down. I *think* it happens when crew gets reduced below 0 when two fleets spawn at once, very irritating when it happens tho :(

I'll look into the pd issue, I might just raise the chance of pd weapons a bit. I kind of like the idea of not having exactly what you need :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: PCCL on April 23, 2013, 08:09:20 PM
Quote
Yeah can't quite seem to chase that issue down. I *think* it happens when crew gets reduced below 0 when two fleets spawn at once, very irritating when it happens tho

shouldn't be.... I spawn 3 fleets at once and that never happened... but then again I never had crew drop so low either...

maybe add an if statement to set crew to 0 if under 0, just for good measure?

Quote
I'll look into the pd issue, I might just raise the chance of pd weapons a bit. I kind of like the idea of not having exactly what you need

while balance isn't quite there yet, I agree with the second point. The main reason I love this mod is I think it points nicely to what starfarer might be like in the future, what with all the constant warfare and making do with a makeshift fleet that's really poorly put together.

I was running a conquest with 3 main (large) guns for months before I got a hellbore off a dominator, then I ran 3 mjonir and a hellbore... That awkwardness is awesome in its own way ;D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.3
Post by: Zaphide on April 25, 2013, 10:49:17 PM
Bit of an update. I had originally planned a 0.2 but got carried away and ended up doing most of my 0.3 planned work too!

Code
0.3
 - Added custom factions
   - shadowyards, syndicateasp, junkpirate, nomad, council, blackrock, antediluvian, valkyrian, lotusconglomerate, gedune
 - Added Exerelin system setup options when starting a new game
   - Number of planets, asteroid belts, stations, faction respawn
 - Added small wage paid weekly when playing with the option 'paying for things'
 - Changed out system faction fleets to not appear until 6 months have passed
 - Slightly reduced amount of fuel and crew generated in stations
 - Slightly reduced amount of all resources generated and delivered for players faction

0.2
 - Added faction rebel blockades
   - Will target 1 or 2 of a leading factions stations and attempt to blockade it, wasting valuable resources for that faction
 - Added trade guild supply runs
   - Will attempt to deliver resources to a lagging faction to give them a bit of help
 - Changed out system fleets to conquer stations immediately at start of game
 - Changed out system fleets only come when faction is not in system
 - Changed station attack ships to spawn less
 - Changed as many references to player to say players chosen faction
 - Increased likelihood of pd weapons for independent
 - Renamed inter-system fleets to in-system fleets

Given the number of new factions there will no doubt be some balance issues and/or integration issues with the new community factions. Please let me know of any issues you encounter.

Again, many thanks to the community factions authors for allowing me to include their outstanding work :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic system and faction war mod - V0.11
Post by: theSONY on April 26, 2013, 02:43:42 AM
hope there will be next version (if needed ;p) till weekend :) so i can play some

praise the lord
can't wait till i check it out :D
... tomorrow  :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.3
Post by: CopperCoyote on April 26, 2013, 03:26:11 AM
I think i may have gotten a little carried away trying out this mod...  I'm not even sure when i started.

Does buying up all the AI personnel and supplies actually adversely affect their spawns? I couldn't tell for sure. Once i put it in my bases it'd spawn one or two large fleets the next day.

Is there a benefit to choosing pirates? Or is it self imposed challenge mode?

If i choose hegemony and a brown hegemony fleet shows up is it my ally? I haven't had a chance to interact with that fleet yet.

Fantastic mod  ;D I'm excited about .3
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.3
Post by: Zaphide on April 26, 2013, 04:02:00 AM
I think i may have gotten a little carried away trying out this mod...  I'm not even sure when i started.

Does buying up all the AI personnel and supplies actually adversely affect their spawns? I couldn't tell for sure. Once i put it in my bases it'd spawn one or two large fleets the next day.

Is there a benefit to choosing pirates? Or is it self imposed challenge mode?

If i choose hegemony and a brown hegemony fleet shows up is it my ally? I haven't had a chance to interact with that fleet yet.

Fantastic mod  ;D I'm excited about .3

By buying resources from the AI station you'll stop them from building fleets, but stations replenish resources and convoys deliver them so that may have happened in the meantime.

Pirates (and a few of the other factions) are definitely more difficult to get very far with! I'm undecided whether to tweak that too much at the moment, as it does rather nicely give different difficulty levels... :)

Hmmm the last scenario you mention shouldn't be possible, and it hasn't in any of my testing... Can you please make sure both you and them are Hegemony? If you both are then that's a bug... :( However, Rebel fleets will impersonate a faction and will be named something like "Rebel Hegemony Blockade Fleet", and they will be at war with you (if you are Hegemony) so that maybe what you are seeing?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.3
Post by: ValkyriaL on April 26, 2013, 05:14:14 AM
I think you forgot the variants folder for Shadowyards HI ... not a single one of theirs ships have weapons mounted.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: Zaphide on April 26, 2013, 06:09:17 AM
I think you forgot the variants folder for Shadowyards HI ... not a single one of theirs ships have weapons mounted.

Damn, I had specified them as just the hull in the fleet, so yeah ships with no guns... Sigh...  :P

I have fixed and there is a new version 0.31.

Sorry for the bother!   :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: dogboy123 on April 26, 2013, 06:13:13 AM
Hmm... this looks nice, maybe I'll check it out :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: MShadowy on April 26, 2013, 06:26:45 AM
I think you forgot the variants folder for Shadowyards HI ... not a single one of theirs ships have weapons mounted.

Damn, I had specified them as just the hull in the fleet, so yeah ships with no guns... Sigh...  :P

I have fixed and there is a new version 0.31.

Sorry for the bother!   :)

Hmmm... sounds like a problem I had when working out the Variant Selector actually.  I wonder what could be wrong.

Edit:  Looking through the folders, it looks like SHIVariantSelector didn't get into the file, so I'm going to try importing it in the various "X"SpawnPoint java files and seeing if I can integrate it.

E: E:  Alright, that wasn't too hard.

The attached file is just the SHIVariantSelector under a different name, but could easily be expanded to include all ships in the mod.  Because the fleet selection gets called by a different .java file in this case, there's no need to bother CollectionUtils and weighted random fleet selections, so all that really needs to be done (besides importing the script) is to tell the spawning script (e.g. AttackFleetSpawnPoint) to randomize the Fleet, like so:

Code
getLocation().spawnFleet(getAnchor(), 0, 0, fleet);
ExerelinVariantSelector.randomizeFleet(fleet);
fleet.setPreferredResupplyLocation(getAnchor());

The VariantSelector script works by looking for a specific string in a ships variant ID when it spawns a fleet, this being "_Hull," and then replacing it with a variant from a hash mapped list.  Unfortunately when it doesn't work you get unarmed ships scooting about your solar system, which is exactly the problem reported, though in this case the script simply wasn't implemented rather than wrongly implemented, which was the problem I had been having when I was first trying to implement this.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: sarducardun on April 26, 2013, 09:03:37 AM
I have found a weird bug. Playing as valkyrians the first fleet invasion fleet is valkyrians, then the team maxi ally becomes independents in every way from the fleets the have to what's in their stations. As I said: very weird.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: sarducardun on April 26, 2013, 10:06:55 AM
Okay half of my council fleets are named 'Independent' as well but they have council ships.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.3
Post by: CopperCoyote on April 26, 2013, 01:45:53 PM
If i choose hegemony and a brown hegemony fleet shows up is it my ally? I haven't had a chance to interact with that fleet yet.
Hmmm the last scenario you mention shouldn't be possible, and it hasn't in any of my testing... Can you please make sure both you and them are Hegemony? If you both are then that's a bug... :( However, Rebel fleets will impersonate a faction and will be named something like "Rebel Hegemony Blockade Fleet", and they will be at war with you (if you are Hegemony) so that maybe what you are seeing?

It is hegemony out-system attack fleet. When i interact with them they're neutral to me. I chose hegemony, and free. When the pop-up happened i thought i was getting a free station, but when i looked at the map they were brown instead of green like the one that spawned when i first started the game. It is still version .1 in case it matters. I still haven't gotten to .3 yet.

I'd like to make a suggestion for the fleet names. While out-system is perfectly understandable it could have a smoother name. Like extrasolar. I forget which prefix is for in though. I want to say intr. Like intravenous or introverted.

I suppose it is largely a stylistic thing though. If your fleets are labeled planetary defence fleet 1-5, and your attack fleets are labeled A-E then out-system is part of that flavor. It would be very interesting to have different naming conventions based on faction though. Like the transports used for station supplies.

That's enough rambling for now. I want to try .31
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: Zaphide on April 26, 2013, 02:21:40 PM
I have found a weird bug. Playing as valkyrians the first fleet invasion fleet is valkyrians, then the team maxi ally becomes independents in every way from the fleets the have to what's in their stations. As I said: very weird.

Okay half of my council fleets are named 'Independent' as well but they have council ships.

Hmmm I'm not quite sure what to make of this one. If you play as valkyrians then your fleets should be something like "Player valkyrian Defense Fleet", "Player valkyrian Attack Fleet" etc. Likewise, if you play as Council, you fleets will be named "Player council Defense Fleet". I just played a couple of games and all seemed to be OK?

If anything goes wrong setting up a chosen faction, Exerelin will default your faction to Independent, so perhaps that is what is happening? If possible, can you delete the Exerelin folder (in the mods folder) and re-download 0.31?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: Zaphide on April 26, 2013, 02:30:29 PM
@MShadowy

Ah OK, now I understand why they were just hulls :) Exerelin builds it's fleets based on the fleet specified in the .faction file. Once built, it'll remove ships until the station has enough resources to build the fleet and then it will spawn. It is the same code that does this for all factions, the differences are just in the .faction files fleet compositions. I'd probably prefer to keep this approach as it makes it a lot easier when adding other factions and just generally managing the code.

I'm hoping Alex will add a getAllVariantsForShipId() API method at some point (if there is something like that I haven't found it) which would make things like this a lot easier :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: sirboomalot on April 26, 2013, 04:13:42 PM
Alright, I too have had a faction turn into independents, my own. Basically, here I was with three dominators two lashers and a hound trying to defend my three pirate stations against the combined alliance of gedune, council, and lotus. The station defence fleets were completely wiped out, the council were everywhere with their particularly powerful ships, and I was assassinating boarding ships (in-system station attack fleets) in order to keep my stations alive. We had just ended up at peace with the lotus conglomerate when the white background of death reared its ugly head, and I saved my game, restarted starsector, and re-loaded. I don't actually know when the change from pirates to independents was made, nor even if it was before or after the save since I had already made a later save by the time i realized that I was no longer a pirate, but by the time I had finally fought off the other enemy ships and boarders until peace once again reigned in the system, I looked at my fleets and stations and realized that I was independent.

Hopefully the in-depth story will help you to find the bug.

Also, I noticed that once the stations and fleets in the system get up to full power, it is near-impossible for fleets of other allegiances to get a foot-hold past all of the defense fleets when the new arrivals are immediately beset upon by an alliance of three. I noticed a poor antediluvian fleet arrive in the system to be attacked by that triple-threat, and the only thing that remained of them after just a couple in-game days was a fully armed antediluvian capital ship taking part in the attack of my own stations, having been captured by an already large council fleet. I suspect that the fleets such as this are going to need a bit of an increase in power before they are able to really affect much.

Also, I would love for there to be an option for even more than the current number of planets and stations available, even if it does result in a bit of overlapping.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing, the regular attack fleets, while sent out in a time of war, will continue to fly around the opposing stations long after a peace has been reached.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.31
Post by: Zaphide on April 26, 2013, 07:55:30 PM
@sarducardun

@sirboomalot

Ugh damn really sorry, silly dumb mistake on my part, unfortunately I play as Independent quite a bit and hadn't noticed it! Please grab new version 0.32, but you will need to start a new game :(

RE late game station attack fleets:
Yeah this is an issue. I've got an idea for a change that should alleviate some of this issue, just need to implement it. Next version :)

RE more game setup options:
Yep will do. Next version :)

RE attack/defense fleet not responding quickly to relationship changes:
Yeah another thing I have been meaning to implement. Next version :)


Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: sirboomalot on April 26, 2013, 08:58:48 PM
The front-page link is give'n me a 404 error...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 26, 2013, 10:32:07 PM
The front-page link is give'n me a 404 error...

Sorry, laptop went to sleep before sync finished :( Should be up in a couple of minutes.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Uomoz on April 27, 2013, 03:18:39 AM
This mod takes SO many things right.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: sarducardun on April 27, 2013, 04:21:17 AM
New version works fine. Thanks a bunch for this awesome mod.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 27, 2013, 05:16:08 AM
so far so good, but some old bugs still present like:
friendly faction attacks
2,3,4 ect. stations at one planet
& some issue : when NEW faction apears in the system they dont have a chance to start any action on totally occupied system, maybe add more fleets that will attack same station (do not spread them in all system) so maybe 3-4 attacking bigg fleets
& one last thing that just disturbed me , but words are not enough
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/3SmZHa7.png?1?9987)
[close]
                                                                                                                                                    ::)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 27, 2013, 07:23:46 AM
so far so good, but some old bugs still present like:
friendly faction attacks
2,3,4 ect. stations at one planet
& some issue : when NEW faction apears in the system they dont have a chance to start any action on totally occupied system, maybe add more fleets that will attack same station (do not spread them in all system) so maybe 3-4 attacking bigg fleets
& one last thing that just disturbed me , but words are not enough
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/3SmZHa7.png?1?9987)
[close]
                                                                                                                                                    ::)

Yeah still a few annoying things...  :P

For the next version I've changed the faction-comeback a bit so they'll spawn up to three (approx 40% larger than they are now) fleets to take a station. Once/If it is conquered they will hang round for a while to help defend, and they will all put resources in so it should get off to a good start. I don't want to go too far and have a faction come in from Out-System and blitz the field though... :)

Unfortunately Friendly-faction attacks may not be that solvable by me. I'm working on a re-work of the faction relationship/diplomacy stuff that will hopefully let me do a few other interesting things, but a player attacking an ally, and not triggering 'hostile'... I'm not sure I'll be able to solve that one just yet... :(

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Uomoz on April 27, 2013, 08:06:28 AM
so far so good, but some old bugs still present like:
friendly faction attacks
2,3,4 ect. stations at one planet
& some issue : when NEW faction apears in the system they dont have a chance to start any action on totally occupied system, maybe add more fleets that will attack same station (do not spread them in all system) so maybe 3-4 attacking bigg fleets
& one last thing that just disturbed me , but words are not enough
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/3SmZHa7.png?1?9987)
[close]
                                                                                                                                                    ::)

Yeah still a few annoying things...  :P

For the next version I've changed the faction-comeback a bit so they'll spawn up to three (approx 40% larger than they are now) fleets to take a station. Once/If it is conquered they will hang round for a while to help defend, and they will all put resources in so it should get off to a good start. I don't want to go too far and have a faction come in from Out-System and blitz the field though... :)

Unfortunately Friendly-faction attacks may not be that solvable by me. I'm working on a re-work of the faction relationship/diplomacy stuff that will hopefully let me do a few other interesting things, but a player attacking an ally, and not triggering 'hostile'... I'm not sure I'll be able to solve that one just yet... :(



It's possible, I solved it like this:

Code
private void Betrayal_n_Resign() {
        CargoAPI player_cargo = Global.getSector().getPlayerFleet().getCargo();
        if (player_factionapi.getRelationship("independent") < player_factionapi.getRelationship("independent_extra")) {player_factionapi.setRelationship("independent_extra", player_factionapi.getRelationship("independent"));}
        if (player_factionapi.getRelationship("independent_extra") < player_factionapi.getRelationship("independent")) {player_factionapi.setRelationship("independent", player_factionapi.getRelationship("independent_extra"));}
        if (player_factionapi.getRelationship("pirates") < player_factionapi.getRelationship("pirates_extra")) {player_factionapi.setRelationship("pirates_extra", player_factionapi.getRelationship("pirates"));}
        if (player_factionapi.getRelationship("pirates_extra") < player_factionapi.getRelationship("pirates")) {player_factionapi.setRelationship("pirates", player_factionapi.getRelationship("pirates_extra"));}
        if ("Sovereign".equals(uscData.player_bloc_name)) {player_bloc_sum = player_factionapi.getRelationship(hegemony.getId()) + player_factionapi.getRelationship(interstellarFederation.getId());}
        else if ("Supremacy".equals(uscData.player_bloc_name)) {player_bloc_sum = player_factionapi.getRelationship(tritachyon.getId()) + player_factionapi.getRelationship(shadow_industry.getId());}
        else if ("Pirate".equals(uscData.player_bloc_name)) {player_bloc_sum = player_factionapi.getRelationship(pirates.getId()) + player_factionapi.getRelationship(junk_pirates.getId()) + player_factionapi.getRelationship(gedune.getId());}
        else if ("Corporate".equals(uscData.player_bloc_name)) {player_bloc_sum = player_factionapi.getRelationship(neutrinocorp.getId()) + player_factionapi.getRelationship(blackrock_driveyards.getId());}
        else if ("Invaders".equals(uscData.player_bloc_name)) {player_bloc_sum = player_factionapi.getRelationship(thulelegacy.getId()) + player_factionapi.getRelationship(valkyrian.getId());}
        if (player_bloc_sum < old_player_bloc_sum) {
            Global.getSector().addMessage("You betrayed the " + uscData.player_bloc_name + " Bloc! The factions turned hostile to you. Every communication is now blocked.", Color.RED);
            uscData.player_bloc_name = "HARDCORE";
            uscData.player_faction_name = "NOFAC";
            uscData.player_faction_id = "player";
            Bloc_Factions(uscData.player_bloc_name);
            player_factionapi.setRelationship(faction_1.getId(), -1);
            player_factionapi.setRelationship(faction_2.getId(), -1);
            player_factionapi.setRelationship(faction_3.getId(), -1);
        }

Basically checks each day if your relationship is even slightly lower the the day before and if that's true trigger the betrayal.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Sproginator on April 27, 2013, 08:16:06 AM
I would like it so that, if you get powerful, just like in sins of a solar empire, your allies rally up to thwart you :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on April 27, 2013, 09:03:44 AM
Is it possible to have the mod without all the other factions?
I like playing "vanilla" in terms of factions and ships, but this engine conversion/modification is fine.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 27, 2013, 12:05:46 PM
--- bug with 0 crew in station still present (solution: buy them & vent them in the space, you will end up with no crew so buy nen ones)
Question;is Valkyrians are original or Uomoz's balanced ? cuz they are far from "balanced"
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/qJobA83.png?1?8456)
[close]
im bored & i think you can cut the spawn rate cuz it's a bit annoying to chase the little ones

BUT i like the changes so far & i hope the updates will be as much as fast as it is for now :]
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ArkAngel on April 27, 2013, 12:46:24 PM
so i downloaded the mod and got to ask what file do extract to the mod folder cause their apears to be 4 of them...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: sarducardun on April 27, 2013, 01:19:55 PM
I'm with Sony on valkyrians. Their frigates are the fastest and have some serious firepower with 4 pointers rivalling lashers if outfitted well, plus they are far faster than hounds. I do think they need some work though I love the sprites and weapons.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Talkie Toaster on April 27, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
I think the rebel blockade fleets might need a little tuning. Playing as Council, as soon as I get a slight upper hand my stations get swamped by 3-cap-ship blockade fleets that prevent me advancing further as my defensive fleets are all frigate-size. Perhaps blockade fleets should be based on the fleet size of the station fleets, or at least be limited to 1-2 stations at a time?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 27, 2013, 01:39:40 PM
so i downloaded the mod and got to ask what file do extract to the mod folder cause their apears to be 4 of them...

well if you got windows  just download RAR file extrack it
you will have now 2 folders "__MACOSXput" & "Exerelin" 
put Exerelin in the MOD folder in the game & __MACOSXput you can delete
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: PCCL on April 27, 2013, 01:44:45 PM
I second the vanilla version, not that the races aren't good, but they're quite overwhelming since I'm used to just the good ol' lore
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: SteelRonin on April 27, 2013, 03:10:58 PM
Got another one, this was while picking the ship, it said a hull ID was missing, but i forgot where the log is, can someone tell me?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 27, 2013, 03:28:59 PM
Got another one, this was while picking the ship, it said a hull ID was missing, but i forgot where the log is, can someone tell me?
\STARSECTOR\starsector-core
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on April 27, 2013, 03:44:09 PM
If Zaphide doesn't want to upload a vanilla-factions version for 0.32, could at least get some pointers to doing it myself?
I only know a little python, and I'm not sure if that will translate well to modding for Starsector in Java.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 27, 2013, 04:08:36 PM
@Uomoz

Thanks, looks great! It'll be slightly different but main idea is the same. No idea why I didn't think about doing that... :)

I would like it so that, if you get powerful, just like in sins of a solar empire, your allies rally up to thwart you :)

Yeah, I'm reworking the relationship/diplomacy stuff so I can do things like this :) could be a while away though...

Is it possible to have the mod without all the other factions?
<snip>

I second the vanilla version <snip>

Good idea, was thinking about this as I also like playing just with the Vanilla factions sometimes. Will implement for next version :)

If Zaphide doesn't want to upload a vanilla-factions version for 0.32, could at least get some pointers to doing it myself?
I only know a little python, and I'm not sure if that will translate well to modding for Starsector in Java.

... and if you want to do it now:
 - Go to mods/Exerelin/data/scripts/world/exerelin/ExerelinData.java
 - Change the possibleFactions array (right at the top) to only list the factions you want to play with :)
   - Leave "player" and at least two other at a minimum
   - i.e
Code
private String[] possibleFactions = new String[] {"player", "hegemony", "tritachyon" };
- That's it!
 - EDIT: I should add that this will play havoc with saved games using other factions so be careful not to mix

--- bug with 0 crew in station still present (solution: buy them & vent them in the space, you will end up with no crew so buy nen ones)
Question;is Valkyrians are original or Uomoz's balanced ? cuz they are far from "balanced"
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/qJobA83.png?1?8456)
[close]
im bored & i think you can cut the spawn rate cuz it's a bit annoying to chase the little ones

BUT i like the changes so far & i hope the updates will be as much as fast as it is for now :]

Yeah 0 crew bug still around.

Valkyrians, yeah they are a bit too powerful in relation to the other races (I also think the problem is partly to do with their super-cap ships), but they are a good complete faction. I kind of see them as a difficulty decider: pick at start if you want an "easier game", if they spawn as an enemy then it's a "harder game". I may slightly lower the max size of their fleets to compensate slightly.

Got another one, this was while picking the ship, it said a hull ID was missing, but i forgot where the log is, can someone tell me?

Which ship were you picking? Starter ship or later in the game from a station?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on April 27, 2013, 05:57:46 PM
AWESOME! Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ValkyriaL on April 27, 2013, 07:26:49 PM
The balance issue would be sorted out if you used the military variants instead of advanced ones as intended, and not use the royal armada as a base for all the fleets. :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 28, 2013, 01:09:09 AM
The Lotus Conglomerate ships & nomads have no ship systems
 i dunno did Uomoz's add it in his mod or you have some old lotus version
maybe LORD Uomoz should send you his faction modification cuz i think it would be just lovley :]
but i doubt it because that will decrease his mod followers size ;p
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: SteelRonin on April 28, 2013, 02:31:58 AM
Here you go!

80282 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
80282 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 187.49 MB of texture data so far
81094 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
154219 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ValkyriaL on April 28, 2013, 02:50:51 AM
The Lotus Conglomerate ships & nomads have no ship systems
 i dunno did Uomoz's add it in his mod or you have some old lotus version
maybe LORD Uomoz should send you his faction modification cuz i think it would be just lovley :]
but i doubt it because that will decrease his mod followers size ;p

Lotus and Nomads are extremely outdated as observed, Nomads will be updated by Trylobot once 0.6 is out and lotus is abandoned, they will never get updated.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Silver Silence on April 28, 2013, 04:26:49 AM
Here you go!

80282 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
80282 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 187.49 MB of texture data so far
81094 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
154219 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)


Is that an out-of-memory crash? That looks similar to the crash that happened in Ascendancy with the background imagery being way too big for lightweight computers to handle.
Other than that, it looks like the game tried to look for thin air, and got just that. Thin air.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 28, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
The balance issue would be sorted out if you used the military variants instead of advanced ones as intended, and not use the royal armada as a base for all the fleets. :P

Ah gotcha :) Will do some play testing with the M variants.

The Lotus Conglomerate ships & nomads have no ship systems
 i dunno did Uomoz's add it in his mod or you have some old lotus version
maybe LORD Uomoz should send you his faction modification cuz i think it would be just lovley :]
but i doubt it because that will decrease his mod followers size ;p

I'll look at this. I'm not quite sure where balance is quite yet. The Nomad's could definitely do with some ship systems but Lotus Conglomerate seem to do fairly well without (admittedly not as fun). More play testing... :P

Here you go!

80282 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
80282 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 187.49 MB of texture data so far
81094 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
154219 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)


Is that an out-of-memory crash? That looks similar to the crash that happened in Ascendancy with the background imagery being way too big for lightweight computers to handle.
Other than that, it looks like the game tried to look for thin air, and got just that. Thin air.

Yeah I don't think this is related to a missing variant... There is a bit of *interesting* code I wrote that determines a hull id from a variant id, but I don't think it would throw this error, and certainly not in the combat system...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 28, 2013, 10:13:24 AM
maybe cancel all the "small" fleets that have "attack" staton order cuz they are extremely annoying & makes the game bid boring to endlessly chase them down           maybe just let them wander with no purpose in the system aka- patrol
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: sirboomalot on April 28, 2013, 12:56:53 PM
I don't know, those attack fleets are kinda important to people who haven't yet built up a good fleet, and they usually don't hurt much. I do however think that having a few fleets wander the system would be a good idea. They can be patrolling in times of peace, hoping to intercept supplies in times of war, and overall will add to he mod to where not every ship is either camping a station or moving to a new station.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: SteelRonin on April 28, 2013, 01:44:57 PM
I only had this error on first startup, its perfectly fine now though
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 29, 2013, 02:39:17 AM
maybe cancel all the "small" fleets that have "attack" staton order cuz they are extremely annoying & makes the game bid boring to endlessly chase them down           maybe just let them wander with no purpose in the system aka- patrol

I don't know, those attack fleets are kinda important to people who haven't yet built up a good fleet, and they usually don't hurt much. I do however think that having a few fleets wander the system would be a good idea. They can be patrolling in times of peace, hoping to intercept supplies in times of war, and overall will add to he mod to where not every ship is either camping a station or moving to a new station.

Yeah I have been toying with this idea. I think it would be good to move a couple of fleets from guard/attack duties to patrol (if peace) and raid (if war). Will do for next version :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Sproginator on April 29, 2013, 03:46:02 AM
Sounds good :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on April 29, 2013, 04:41:30 AM
its me again  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mFN6NlgHW6c#t=53s)
can you chante the time that NEW faction will spawn (6 months it's bit too long)
also maybe on New game set at every 2-4 station per faction at the new game cuz i think 4 (includes player) faction spawning at the begining is low , so maybe when yo choose 10 stations per system it will spawn 5 factions (including player) if set 20 stations per system it will set 10 factions OR just spawn everyone & watch the mayhem ;P
& last thing  if player looses last station there must be spawn more fleets cuz that 1 can do manure ;p + even if capture anything its impossible to grown back cuz player is overwelmed by other's
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Sproginator on April 29, 2013, 04:45:29 AM
A configurable options portion located at the top of the script would be a great addition, for skirmish type modes
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Chronosfear on April 29, 2013, 05:27:56 AM
hey,
excellent mod so far.

but i would love to be asked a couple of more questions at the beginning if possible
"Should faction x appear in this sector? "
  answer  : A simple YES or NO
and for all faction already built in.

maybe someone would like to stick to vanilla or doesn't like a specific faction for some reason.

chronosfear

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 29, 2013, 05:34:35 AM
its me again  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mFN6NlgHW6c#t=53s)
can you chante the time that NEW faction will spawn (6 months it's bit too long)
also maybe on New game set at every 2-4 station per faction at the new game cuz i think 4 (includes player) faction spawning at the begining is low , so maybe when yo choose 10 stations per system it will spawn 5 factions (including player) if set 20 stations per system it will set 10 factions OR just spawn everyone & watch the mayhem ;P
& last thing  if player looses last station there must be spawn more fleets cuz that 1 can do manure ;p + even if capture anything its impossible to grown back cuz player is overwelmed by other's

A configurable options portion located at the top of the script would be a great addition, for skirmish type modes

Ah I'm ahead of you already! :P

I have added the following starting question:
When you arrive at Exerelin, how many other factions are there with you initially?

With the following options:
1 other Faction
3 other Factions
6 other Factions
All factions you know of!
1 familiar face [Vanilla Only]
A few old friends [Vanilla Only]

1 other faction + no respawn pretty much equals a dual. All factions + largest amount of planets/stations is fun!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 29, 2013, 05:39:36 AM
hey,
excellent mod so far.

but i would love to be asked a couple of more questions at the beginning if possible
"Should faction x appear in this sector? "
  answer  : A simple YES or NO
and for all faction already built in.

maybe someone would like to stick to vanilla or doesn't like a specific faction for some reason.

chronosfear



Thanks for the feedback :)

See above for some stuff in the next release.

I probably won't include an option to add/remove each faction at the game setup (as that would be A LOT of question/answer pages) but I have included a vanilla only setting. And I start a LOT of new games  :)

Also, somewhere back in the thread I outlined how to set the factions specifically. I'll add it to the initial post as well so that it's slightly more obvious (as it is very easy to edit the file and restrict specific factions).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: CopperCoyote on April 29, 2013, 04:14:15 PM
An interesting thing happens with CTRL+clicking and 0 crew bug. You can pick up infinite stacks of them. It then spread to all my different crew levels and it wiped out 3k regulars. I'm glad it wasn't a hardcore save.

This was on version .32 for future reference.

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: sirboomalot on April 29, 2013, 04:26:54 PM
I am greatly looking forward to the next release, any idea for when we can get it? Will you be adding any more factions to the mod such as the neutrinos?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 29, 2013, 04:49:43 PM
An interesting thing happens with CTRL+clicking and 0 crew bug. You can pick up infinite stacks of them. It then spread to all my different crew levels and it wiped out 3k regulars. I'm glad it wasn't a hardcore save.

This was on version .32 for future reference.



Yeah I need to fix this but i can't ever seem to catch it happening, I just notice it later in the game. I think I might just need to handle it if it happens rather than preventing it. It would be quicker to implement like that but not as nice... :)

I am greatly looking forward to the next release, any idea for when we can get it? Will you be adding any more factions to the mod such as the neutrinos?

Hopefully very soon, I'm reworking the faction relationship stuff a lot, which should make the faction interaction make a bit more sense (and player attacking ally not resulting in a war will be fixed). It is mostly done but needs a bit of tweaking :)

As for neutrinos, im a bit dubious as the auto-resolve tends to give them a too good advantage. I'll get in contact with the author anyway and see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: CopperCoyote on April 29, 2013, 05:24:53 PM
I don't have a lot of helpful info. It was year 207 & at one of my oldest stations. I rarely needed to go there because after the first couple of months i had destroyed 2 of the other 3 factions already. (rushing FTW) I'm not sure if it was my first station or one i had captured. It was also free trade, and i was about to be attacked by rebels. (they had spawned and were approaching)


What is the targeting priority for attack fleets? I thought it was whichever station is nearest, but they sometimes went for other, much further, stations.

What is the criteria for spawning atlases? My stations seem to rarely spawn them, but the other factions spawned tons of 'em. It was nice at first because i'd be able to get lots of supplies for big defence fleets, but then became a hassle because they couldn't chase down the single atlases very well. So i'd have to chase them or suffer the base under attack spam. After a while i was able to cut them off at the source, but then i noticed i had no atlases taking their stations.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Sproginator on April 29, 2013, 11:47:23 PM
its me again  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mFN6NlgHW6c#t=53s)
can you chante the time that NEW faction will spawn (6 months it's bit too long)
also maybe on New game set at every 2-4 station per faction at the new game cuz i think 4 (includes player) faction spawning at the begining is low , so maybe when yo choose 10 stations per system it will spawn 5 factions (including player) if set 20 stations per system it will set 10 factions OR just spawn everyone & watch the mayhem ;P
& last thing  if player looses last station there must be spawn more fleets cuz that 1 can do manure ;p + even if capture anything its impossible to grown back cuz player is overwelmed by other's

A configurable options portion located at the top of the script would be a great addition, for skirmish type modes

Ah I'm ahead of you already! :P

I have added the following starting question:
When you arrive at Exerelin, how many other factions are there with you initially?

With the following options:
1 other Faction
3 other Factions
6 other Factions
All factions you know of!
1 familiar face [Vanilla Only]
A few old friends [Vanilla Only]

1 other faction + no respawn pretty much equals a dual. All factions + largest amount of planets/stations is fun!

A "random variables" option would then be good so that we don't lose that randomness to your mod
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ValkyriaL on April 29, 2013, 11:49:15 PM
Can the player capture stations? i know i can cut off their supply and such and prevent them from caping by killing supply convoys, but i haven't figured out if i can cap myself.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 30, 2013, 05:06:54 AM
I don't have a lot of helpful info. It was year 207 & at one of my oldest stations. I rarely needed to go there because after the first couple of months i had destroyed 2 of the other 3 factions already. (rushing FTW) I'm not sure if it was my first station or one i had captured. It was also free trade, and i was about to be attacked by rebels. (they had spawned and were approaching)


What is the targeting priority for attack fleets? I thought it was whichever station is nearest, but they sometimes went for other, much further, stations.

What is the criteria for spawning atlases? My stations seem to rarely spawn them, but the other factions spawned tons of 'em. It was nice at first because i'd be able to get lots of supplies for big defence fleets, but then became a hassle because they couldn't chase down the single atlases very well. So i'd have to chase them or suffer the base under attack spam. After a while i was able to cut them off at the source, but then i noticed i had no atlases taking their stations.

The targeting priority for attack fleets and station attack ships should be nearest enemy station. If the attacking faction is not at war with the nearest stations owner then it will look further afield for suitable target.

Atlases spawn fairly regularly (like 1 in 10 days or so) from each station. Your factions stations should also spawn atlases (provided they have enough of each resource).

A "random variables" option would then be good so that we don't lose that randomness to your mod

It will still be random, so the 3 factions option picks 3 other factions randomly from all available factions, like wise but with 1 for the 1 other faction options. If you select the Vanilla options, it will just use the original vanilla factions instead of all the available ones.

Can the player capture stations? i know i can cut off their supply and such and prevent them from caping by killing supply convoys, but i haven't figured out if i can cap myself.

Nah the player can't conquer stations, only the single atlas ships or the out system fleets can. Your factions stations will spawn takeover atlases if your faction is at war with any faction (or there are still abandoned ones around). The idea is that stations should only be conquered once all (or at least most) of the defense fleets are destroyed, as pretty much anything can kill an atlas :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Sproginator on April 30, 2013, 06:41:07 AM
So if I specify that I want 30 factions?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Zaphide on April 30, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
So if I specify that I want 30 factions?

Well, if you select the 'all factions' option all 15 (i think it is) will start. The choice is only for which factions start, the others can come later (unless you choose vanilla option, then only the 4 vanilla factions will ever appear).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Dante80 on May 01, 2013, 12:33:51 PM
Lotus and Nomads are extremely outdated as observed, Nomads will be updated by Trylobot once 0.6 is out and lotus is abandoned, they will never get updated.

never say never.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Silver Silence on May 01, 2013, 12:51:01 PM
NEVARRRR  :P

Also very long time no see, Dante.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: conorano on May 01, 2013, 01:17:47 PM
HES ALIVE!!!

quick, someone check if hes not a zombie or something!  :P

hope this is an i'm back message and not just a random one
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: theSONY on May 01, 2013, 02:08:42 PM
Uomoz would say:" it's a bot"  ;D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Uomoz on May 01, 2013, 03:26:07 PM
BOT CONFIRMED.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: ValkyriaL on May 01, 2013, 03:42:51 PM
**** **** he is back!? it has to be a bot! but i guess they will also get updated in time to 0.6 then. :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Dante80 on May 01, 2013, 10:02:23 PM
(http://kompulsa.com/it/images/spambot.jpg)

NICE TO MEET YOU.
My name is Hadiza.I am a female I was impressed when i saw your profile
today at www.ultimate-guitar.com and I will like to established
a long lasting relationship with you.
In addition,i will like you to reply me through my private email box
([email protected]) So i can give you my pictures, for you to know and see whom i
am and I believe we can move from here! waiting to hear from you soonest.
(Remember the distance or colour even religion does not matter but love matters alot in life)
please contact me here... ([email protected])
Hadiza..

 ;D

Nice to see everyone, it has indeed being a very long time...C:

...ok. I really love the direction the game is going these last months, it has been a looooong time since I last played though. Those filthy Lotus Pirates need a lot of work, the look of their hulls is starting to match their outdated/unbalanced nature.

Sinking deep in the black depths of Eve Online, together with an unhealthy amount of work hours in the hoppy certainly does not help too. I really cannot make any promises for this month, but rest assured those picaroon will be coming back.

With a Vengeance...scratch that, they dont want that hull...XD
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.32
Post by: Silver Silence on May 01, 2013, 10:19:37 PM
*notsureifshouldclickreportbutton*  ::)



Can't wait to see some new hulls and ship systems on the Lotus Pirates.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.4
Post by: Zaphide on May 02, 2013, 04:13:40 AM
Just uploaded an update :)

Code
0.4
 - Added neutrino faction
 - Added new diplomacy system
   - Added war weariness for faction fighting constantly in a war
   - Added dislike for leading faction and like for losing faction
   - Added check for player betrayal and peace treaty break
 - Added extra system size start config options
 - Added start config to set starting number of attack fleets
   - Added vanilla only settings for starting factions
   - Added start config for respawn wait time (if respawn is selected)
 - Added extra starting ships for each faction
 - Added patrol fleets that spawn from station
 - Added ship systems to Nomad and LotusConglomerate factions

 - Changed the balance of some factions slightly
 - Changed valkyrian and council fleet composition slightly
 - Changed off map attack fleets to spawn more fleets if target station is rich (up to 3)
 - Changed Attack/Defense fleets to respond faster to relationship changes
 - Changed number of rebel fleets to take into account number of stations
 - Changed rebel fleets to spawn less frequently

 - Fixed out system attack fleets dropping too many resources sometimes
 - Fixed (hopefully) 0 crew/fuel/supplies/marines bug

It will not be save compatible sorry.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.4
Post by: Zaphide on May 03, 2013, 12:21:04 AM
Another update :P

Noticed an issue with the diplomacy calculation that meant not a lot was going on...

Update will be save compatible with v0.4 :)

Code
0.41
 - Changed rebel fleet to not hang around quite as long
 - Fixed an issue with diplomacy relationship calculations
 - Slightly reduced the penalty applied to a players dropped off resources
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: arcibalde on May 03, 2013, 12:34:35 AM
Just one technical thing, could you put version number in zip file name like, Exerelin_v0.41.zip or something cos i have like Exerelin(1), Exerelin(2), Exerelin(3), Exerelin(4), Exerelin(5) etc. It's just easier to track down mod version this way. Or you could ignore me...  ;D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.4
Post by: kupan9 on May 03, 2013, 12:38:06 AM
Sounds like fun. I will have to download it and start a new game now, so much for sleep. :D
If you are taking faction requests, the faction that has my favorite ship from Uomoz's mod is the Interstellar Federation (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2012.0). The Titan is just so much fun, especially with some select weapons from the Valkyrians.

I personally am not a fan of the Neutrino, but since you included such easy directions for disabling factions I don't like this is a non issue. Thank you for that.

I am not sure how the new diplomacy system works, but it will be interesting to find out. Is it fairly transparent via messages? If not could you please explain what you mean by
Quote
   - Added war weariness for faction fighting constantly in a war
   - Added dislike for leading faction and like for losing faction


(Everything below is based off of .32 unless stated otherwise in an edit later)

On to bugs, glitches, and corner cases.
On two separate games I had two factions spawn and head toward the same station. One of which had my player faction fight to the death with another factions spawn fleet before either had a station. I didn't catch for certain that they were heading to the same station or just two so close that they fought each other, but they certainly looked to be on a collision course before they moved to fight. If there isn't anything checking to make certain there isn't a duplicate station when issuing starting fleet orders, it might be worth doing. If there is, it might be worth changing it from station specific to each faction gets a different planet's station until you run out of planets (assuming more starting fleets in newer versions than the 4 in .32).

I had one alliance which kinda threw me, but I am not sure it was a bad thing at all. I was bombing the ever loving *expletive deleted* out of Tri Tach, I had manually declared war on them while we were about 5 stations to 5 stations and just kept driving them back and smashing their fleets. My faction had taken all but one of their stations with an atlas on the way to finish the Tri Tachs for good, when all of a sudden High Command had a thought (uh oh). Next thing I know, while scaring off the Tri Tachs last decent fleet from the atlas knocking on their station door, High Command declares a truce followed by an alliance. I paused at this point and had a little laugh. I don't know there is any real downside to this particular behavior but I needed to share it. If I had to pick a particular thing that I would change, it would probably be disallow alliances for a certain amount of time after a war, but in all the time I have been playing the mod this is the only time it has noticeably been a thing, so it is probably fine.

Suggestions
It would be great if you could order atlas' to attack a specific station. It could probably be pretty easily doable by having a token item that you can buy and sell at the station you want to take over. If you looked at the Modular Fleet (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5873.0)'s source for the fleet supply order tokens it would probably provide a nice template for how to accomplish this. I would probably set it out as this:
1. Buy Atlas Transponder for 10k-20k
2. Sell Atlas Transponder at target station, taking the difference in price as the loss for calling in the strike or supply drop.
3. When the Atlas Transponder is found in any station besides the player's starting station it calls an atlas to that station to either resupply that station if player owned, try to take over that station if owned by someone at war, or send a message that it is against the Rules of War to ambush a station without declaring war first for any neutral or allied stations.

If you are able to do token based interactions based on buying and selling, it could be fun to have tokens for other functions too, like :
1. Bribes: that give you different levels of chance to make an enemy into a neutral and neutrals into allies. Like 2k for a 5% chance 10k for a 20% chance etc. Make the logic for breaking an alliance have a second check with a 50% chance or so of not breaking the alliance if it was player chosen, just to make it last a little longer if it is a faction you really want to be allied with then spending the money might be worth it.
2. Supply Drops: Sell a Atlas Transponder to an allied station causes them to pick a random player faction station to send a normal supply fleet to and drop off the same sort of stuff as though it were a player faction of that faction resupplying itself.
3. Attack Fleet Orders: I sometimes find myself in an untenable position(that is good) where I am destroying enemy fleets but my faction can't keep up and is getting ground down. It would be nice if I could spend my money to order fleets to join the fight, maybe at 80% the total cost of the fleet and after buying the Attack Fleet it would spawn a fleet from the nearest player faction station. I am not sure how well this idea would balance so I would probably ignore it till the mod is a little more rounded than it currently is, assuming it goes in the direction that would make this feature a viable part of the flavor and mechanics set you are building.

Is there any chance to add the option in the starting menu to pick a "nemesis" or "rival" faction? I would personally like them to work something like this:
1. Forces them to be part of or in addition to the normal starting factions at world spawn.
2. They cannot be allied with the Player Faction.
3. They have a higher likelihood of declaring war with the Player faction, and the Player faction has a higher chance to declare war with them.
Maybe have a bounty setup with a credit reward for killing certain fleet types, nothing huge but a couple thousand credits just to make it feel like you are being supported for killing their defense fleets. More of a flavor thing than a practical income source is what I am looking for I guess. Probably not doable easily enough to be justified for the bounties.

You should ask for some sort of chat filter to stop people from wall of texting with 3 point lists ;D

This is a great mod, I look forward to seeing where you take this. It would be interesting to see if you and Uomoz end up mega modding them together. Custom event fleets, dynamic wars, fifty bazillion factions. The chaos, the beautiful beautiful chaos.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Upgradecap on May 03, 2013, 01:56:59 AM
Weeeellll I had to try and do this.


>Downloads mod
>Butchers mod for own purposes
>Crashes the game.

::)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 03, 2013, 03:24:24 AM
Just one technical thing, could you put version number in zip file name like, Exerelin_v0.41.zip or something cos i have like Exerelin(1), Exerelin(2), Exerelin(3), Exerelin(4), Exerelin(5) etc. It's just easier to track down mod version this way. Or you could ignore me...  ;D

Haha will do from now on :)

Sounds like fun. I will have to download it and start a new game now, so much for sleep. :D
If you are taking faction requests, the faction that has my favorite ship from Uomoz's mod is the Interstellar Federation (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2012.0). The Titan is just so much fun, especially with some select weapons from the Valkyrians.

I personally am not a fan of the Neutrino, but since you included such easy directions for disabling factions I don't like this is a non issue. Thank you for that.

I am not sure how the new diplomacy system works, but it will be interesting to find out. Is it fairly transparent via messages? If not could you please explain what you mean by
Quote
  - Added war weariness for faction fighting constantly in a war
   - Added dislike for leading faction and like for losing faction

Intersteller Federation is coming soon :)

It's not really very transparent but I think it would result in too much message spam. I will add some indicators if it becomes necessary. Perhaps things along the lines of "<faction> grows restless..." and so on.

War weariness dictates how keen a faction is for a war. The longer they are involved in a war the less likely they are to go to war with anyone else and the more likely they are to end their current war. It also works the other way, so no war means factions are keen for a fight :)

As for the second point, factions tend to dislike the faction with the most stations, and have less of a problem with the faction with the least stations. It's not as finegrained as I wanted it to be, but the groundwork is there to build a better system on.

Overall it should mean less random changes. The next main things are to implement a few other bits and bobs:
 - Factions don't like having their stations taken over
 - If an ally takes over a station from a faction we hate, we like that ally more
 - etc.

On two separate games I had two factions spawn and head toward the same station. One of which had my player faction fight to the death with another factions spawn fleet before either had a station. I didn't catch for certain that they were heading to the same station or just two so close that they fought each other, but they certainly looked to be on a collision course before they moved to fight. If there isn't anything checking to make certain there isn't a duplicate station when issuing starting fleet orders, it might be worth doing. If there is, it might be worth changing it from station specific to each faction gets a different planet's station until you run out of planets (assuming more starting fleets in newer versions than the 4 in .32).

Yeah unfortunately there is no check. As you say, it is more of a corner case, and is completely dependent upon where a faction starts and the closest station. Declaring war right at the start shouldn't happen as much anymore so it might be partially fixed.

I had one alliance which kinda threw me, but I am not sure it was a bad thing at all. I was bombing the ever loving *expletive deleted* out of Tri Tach, I had manually declared war on them while we were about 5 stations to 5 stations and just kept driving them back and smashing their fleets. My faction had taken all but one of their stations with an atlas on the way to finish the Tri Tachs for good, when all of a sudden High Command had a thought (uh oh). Next thing I know, while scaring off the Tri Tachs last decent fleet from the atlas knocking on their station door, High Command declares a truce followed by an alliance. I paused at this point and had a little laugh. I don't know there is any real downside to this particular behavior but I needed to share it. If I had to pick a particular thing that I would change, it would probably be disallow alliances for a certain amount of time after a war, but in all the time I have been playing the mod this is the only time it has noticeably been a thing, so it is probably fine.

Haha yeah this kind of thing was the drive for the new diplomacy changes. There are now multiple thresholds that need to be passed before war/peace/alliance is declared between two factions, which should make it more of a stable process rather than just a random one.

It would be great if you could order atlas' to attack a specific station. It could probably be pretty easily doable by having a token item that you can buy and sell at the station you want to take over. If you looked at the Modular Fleet (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5873.0)'s source for the fleet supply order tokens it would probably provide a nice template for how to accomplish this. I would probably set it out as this:
1. Buy Atlas Transponder for 10k-20k
2. Sell Atlas Transponder at target station, taking the difference in price as the loss for calling in the strike or supply drop.
3. When the Atlas Transponder is found in any station besides the player's starting station it calls an atlas to that station to either resupply that station if player owned, try to take over that station if owned by someone at war, or send a message that it is against the Rules of War to ambush a station without declaring war first for any neutral or allied stations.

Completely agree that it would be great for the player to be able to direct attacks (both takeover attacks and attack fleets) but I am hoping there may be something in StarSector 0.6 that makes this easier (I think I read something about dialog boxes in Alex's preview patch notes) but if not then I'll look at the cargo item way. Just feels a bit clunky is all...


If you are able to do token based interactions based on buying and selling, it could be fun to have tokens for other functions too, like :
1. Bribes: that give you different levels of chance to make an enemy into a neutral and neutrals into allies. Like 2k for a 5% chance 10k for a 20% chance etc. Make the logic for breaking an alliance have a second check with a 50% chance or so of not breaking the alliance if it was player chosen, just to make it last a little longer if it is a faction you really want to be allied with then spending the money might be worth it.
2. Supply Drops: Sell a Atlas Transponder to an allied station causes them to pick a random player faction station to send a normal supply fleet to and drop off the same sort of stuff as though it were a player faction of that faction resupplying itself.
3. Attack Fleet Orders: I sometimes find myself in an untenable position(that is good) where I am destroying enemy fleets but my faction can't keep up and is getting ground down. It would be nice if I could spend my money to order fleets to join the fight, maybe at 80% the total cost of the fleet and after buying the Attack Fleet it would spawn a fleet from the nearest player faction station. I am not sure how well this idea would balance so I would probably ignore it till the mod is a little more rounded than it currently is, assuming it goes in the direction that would make this feature a viable part of the flavor and mechanics set you are building.

And yeah like above. Would love to be able to handle this stuff with some UI elements. The allies-helping-each-other thing is something I would really like to implement.

Is there any chance to add the option in the starting menu to pick a "nemesis" or "rival" faction? I would personally like them to work something like this:
1. Forces them to be part of or in addition to the normal starting factions at world spawn.
2. They cannot be allied with the Player Faction.
3. They have a higher likelihood of declaring war with the Player faction, and the Player faction has a higher chance to declare war with them.
Maybe have a bounty setup with a credit reward for killing certain fleet types, nothing huge but a couple thousand credits just to make it feel like you are being supported for killing their defense fleets. More of a flavor thing than a practical income source is what I am looking for I guess. Probably not doable easily enough to be justified for the bounties.

Could do. I was thinking along those lines, but having it randomly choose a 'max' relationship level (i.e cant ally with this faction or always at war with this other faction) at the start of each game for every faction. The nemesis idea could be good though, bit of a self-difficulty decider if you keep picking the hard factions as a nemesis :)

You should ask for some sort of chat filter to stop people from wall of texting with 3 point lists ;D

This is a great mod, I look forward to seeing where you take this. It would be interesting to see if you and Uomoz end up mega modding them together. Custom event fleets, dynamic wars, fifty bazillion factions. The chaos, the beautiful beautiful chaos.
Thanks :)

and yeah the ultimate mod ;D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Sproginator on May 03, 2013, 08:41:13 AM
So much text, I've never seen so much on this forum
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: sirboomalot on May 03, 2013, 12:26:42 PM
Another mod you might consider adding is Thule Legacy, if it isn't already in the works. Otherwise, I am love'n the challenge of hold'n my own with the pirates while the system is full to the brim with all the awesome factions.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: kupan9 on May 03, 2013, 07:39:23 PM
So much text, I've never seen so much on this forum
Yah, you shouldn't look at half my other 12 posts then :P

Thanks for your response Zaphide. The new diplomacy system makes alot more sense now, and I like where it is going.

*edit*
Could you increase the box size for the changelog? It is a little irritating to have to copy/paste it to read it, and seems a little gratuitous to have it so small inside a spoiler block.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: theSONY on May 07, 2013, 03:57:00 AM
about v0.41
SyndicateASP - in system supply conv have no crew (no combat  ready ships)
& a little shrange thing http://imgur.com/a/5u3zr
it happens on 2 different games (but same mod ver.)
& is it just ME or there are some weapons that ain't delivered at the station (lances)

PS:
                                                                                                                   ::)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: CopperCoyote on May 07, 2013, 03:09:32 PM
Would it be possible to have faction selection on more than one screen? I can see 15 right now, and maybe a 16th one, but more than that and i have no idea what is at the bottom of the list.

I noticed the ships don't get reset when stations change hands. Normally this doesn't matter, but when the player sells ships to a stations and then captures it all the sold ships are still there. I typically play on freebies mode so if i was more motivated i could have repeatedly sold the same ships over and over.

What is the criteria for spawning the balancing ships? (the pair of transports) I'd estimate that half of the time a faction thats not doing so well spawns one it has no personnel so when i catch them they surrender (or sabotage).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 07, 2013, 06:06:55 PM
I'm having some good fun with this one, I have to admit.  It's nice to see a bit of that Mount and Blade feel with the crazy diplomacy going down.

To me, the only thing that's missing is the Omnifactory.  Still love that mod.  I'll have to find a way to integrate it so I can have even more fun.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 07, 2013, 07:14:28 PM
Thules Legacy

Yep this one will be added in a bit (after Thule releases his next main build, should be soon).

So much text, I've never seen so much on this forum
*edit*
Could you increase the box size for the changelog? It is a little irritating to have to copy/paste it to read it, and seems a little gratuitous to have it so small inside a spoiler block.

Hmm it looks alright for me (Firefox) might be a browser thing?

about v0.41
SyndicateASP - in system supply conv have no crew (no combat  ready ships)
& a little shrange thing http://imgur.com/a/5u3zr
it happens on 2 different games (but same mod ver.)
& is it just ME or there are some weapons that ain't delivered at the station (lances)

PS:
                                                                                                                   ::)

Whoops yeah missing some weapons for the vanilla factions, possibly others, I'll have a look through.

The no crew for in system convoys is a bug, fixed for next version.

Not sure about the no ships issue, possibly you tried to fight them when they were despawning?

Would it be possible to have faction selection on more than one screen? I can see 15 right now, and maybe a 16th one, but more than that and i have no idea what is at the bottom of the list.

I noticed the ships don't get reset when stations change hands. Normally this doesn't matter, but when the player sells ships to a stations and then captures it all the sold ships are still there. I typically play on freebies mode so if i was more motivated i could have repeatedly sold the same ships over and over.

What is the criteria for spawning the balancing ships? (the pair of transports) I'd estimate that half of the time a faction thats not doing so well spawns one it has no personnel so when i catch them they surrender (or sabotage).

Yeah I'll do a paged thing for faction selection for next release.

Ships in station should get cleared on takeover so I'll check it out.

Yeah the uncrewed convoys are a bug, I'll fix for next version.

 
I'm having some good fun with this one, I have to admit.  It's nice to see a bit of that Mount and Blade feel with the crazy diplomacy going down.

To me, the only thing that's missing is the Omnifactory.  Still love that mod.  I'll have to find a way to integrate it so I can have even more fun.

Not 100% sure but I think the omnifactory is a utility so it should work alongside Exerelin (if you download the omnifactory mod itself).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: theSONY on May 07, 2013, 07:49:50 PM

Whoops yeah missing some weapons for the vanilla factions, possibly others, I'll have a look through.

The no crew for in system convoys is a bug, fixed for next version.

Not sure about the no ships issue, possibly you tried to fight them when they were despawning?


1#- not only vanilla weapons are missing, i cant get (buy) tyhion lances too (got the name right ? :D)
2#- cool
3#-can't rly tell, but i'll keep that in mind, but (can't rly tell for 100%) i think the Empty fleets are on the SyndicateASP side, BUT on the MAP screen you can see the fleet as you target them with the cursor but when you confront them then its *PUF* ghost fleet
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 07, 2013, 08:21:09 PM
I'm having some good fun with this one, I have to admit.  It's nice to see a bit of that Mount and Blade feel with the crazy diplomacy going down.

To me, the only thing that's missing is the Omnifactory.  Still love that mod.  I'll have to find a way to integrate it so I can have even more fun.

Not 100% sure but I think the omnifactory is a utility so it should work alongside Exerelin (if you download the omnifactory mod itself).

While it is a utility, it will spawn at the sun every, unless there's any planets without a station.  I was hoping to randomize it with the rest of the stations, but I'm having trouble getting the class to register, sadly.  I'll probably go back to the default, load Omnifac up, and work on this another time.  I don't work with java much, was never a fan, so I'm not particularly great on doing proper includes and such, I was hoping I'd be able to access it in data.scripts.world.exerelin even though it's packed in data.scripts.world.  Shows what I know about java...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 07, 2013, 08:58:17 PM
1#- not only vanilla weapons are missing, i cant get (buy) tyhion lances too (got the name right ? :D)
2#- cool
3#-can't rly tell, but i'll keep that in mind, but (can't rly tell for 100%) i think the Empty fleets are on the SyndicateASP side, BUT on the MAP screen you can see the fleet as you target them with the cursor but when you confront them then its *PUF* ghost fleet

Do you mean the Tachyon Lance (long range energy, it's a vanilla weapon) or a different one?

I've added it to possible weapons for tri tach and independent for the next release. Or was it missing for a different faction?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 07, 2013, 09:20:24 PM
Jesus, that was frustrating.  Just having it in my load order didn't do it, despite it being a utility mod.  It wouldn't run it's creation script.  I ended up including the files into Exerelin directly, adding the omnifactory's creation script into the generation csv, and I had to change a faction name from neutral to another one, since neutral is not included.  I'm going to try "player" to see if I can at least have it in my hands at all times or somesuch, but we'll see.

Oddly enough, it spawned around one of the planets.  I guess it doesn't see the other stations as stations.

EDIT:  As it turns out, nothing seems to be able to dock at this.  I'm not surprised, tbh.  The real issue is that everything seems to be trying.  Had to edit the utils to basically make the Omnifac ignored, since I don't really want to look for why they aren't docking, although the omnifactory changing hands would be interesting.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: theSONY on May 08, 2013, 12:28:41 AM
1#- not only vanilla weapons are missing, i cant get (buy) tyhion lances too (got the name right ? :D)
2#- cool
3#-can't rly tell, but i'll keep that in mind, but (can't rly tell for 100%) i think the Empty fleets are on the SyndicateASP side, BUT on the MAP screen you can see the fleet as you target them with the cursor but when you confront them then its *PUF* ghost fleet

Do you mean the Tachyon Lance (long range energy, it's a vanilla weapon) or a different one?

I've added it to possible weapons for tri tach and independent for the next release. Or was it missing for a different faction?

Tachion lance , yes i know its a Vanilla, sorry about that it was 5AM at my time
what i meant t it was  Neutron Lance (but both Lances are missing, well  i just never saw it delivered at my station & i own the biggest possibly system so i didn;t play 3 months in the game) BUT its lootabe so they ARE in the game
ALSO i didnt saw - Adventure Civilian Battleship -  in the game or in the stations
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 08, 2013, 05:38:57 AM
Jesus, that was frustrating.  Just having it in my load order didn't do it, despite it being a utility mod.  It wouldn't run it's creation script.  I ended up including the files into Exerelin directly, adding the omnifactory's creation script into the generation csv, and I had to change a faction name from neutral to another one, since neutral is not included.  I'm going to try "player" to see if I can at least have it in my hands at all times or somesuch, but we'll see.

Oddly enough, it spawned around one of the planets.  I guess it doesn't see the other stations as stations.

EDIT:  As it turns out, nothing seems to be able to dock at this.  I'm not surprised, tbh.  The real issue is that everything seems to be trying.  Had to edit the utils to basically make the Omnifac ignored, since I don't really want to look for why they aren't docking, although the omnifactory changing hands would be interesting.

Hmmm try leaving it as "Neutral" and copying the neutral.faction file from base StarSector into the Exerelin/data/world/factions folder and adding  neutral.faction to factions.csv in the same folder. This should give you access to the Neutral faction, and all other factions should be at peace with neutral, which will stop them all from trying to take over the OmniFactory :P

Next version I will include the neutral faction files in so that hopefully the OmniFactory 'just works' out of the box for those that want it. I don't really want to include the OmniFactory as a base rule as I prefer the idea of only using your own factions ships/weapons, and having those choices not being ideal, but on the other hand I imagine there are a few people that want to use it :)

1#- not only vanilla weapons are missing, i cant get (buy) tyhion lances too (got the name right ? :D)
2#- cool
3#-can't rly tell, but i'll keep that in mind, but (can't rly tell for 100%) i think the Empty fleets are on the SyndicateASP side, BUT on the MAP screen you can see the fleet as you target them with the cursor but when you confront them then its *PUF* ghost fleet

Do you mean the Tachyon Lance (long range energy, it's a vanilla weapon) or a different one?

I've added it to possible weapons for tri tach and independent for the next release. Or was it missing for a different faction?

Tachion lance , yes i know its a Vanilla, sorry about that it was 5AM at my time
what i meant t it was  Neutron Lance (but both Lances are missing, well  i just never saw it delivered at my station & i own the biggest possibly system so i didn;t play 3 months in the game) BUT its lootabe so they ARE in the game
ALSO i didnt saw - Adventure Civilian Battleship -  in the game or in the stations


Aha yeah OK there were a bunch of weapons missing from the Neutrino faction supply as well. I have added them for next version. Thanks for chasing that down for me :)

I'm not sure where the Adventure Civilian Battleship comes in, which mod is that from?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: theSONY on May 08, 2013, 06:43:28 AM
 Adventure Civilian Battleship is from Neutrino Corp
also never saw the Blowtorch Construction Ship also from Neutrino
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 08, 2013, 10:20:31 AM
Jesus, that was frustrating.  Just having it in my load order didn't do it, despite it being a utility mod.  It wouldn't run it's creation script.  I ended up including the files into Exerelin directly, adding the omnifactory's creation script into the generation csv, and I had to change a faction name from neutral to another one, since neutral is not included.  I'm going to try "player" to see if I can at least have it in my hands at all times or somesuch, but we'll see.

Oddly enough, it spawned around one of the planets.  I guess it doesn't see the other stations as stations.

EDIT:  As it turns out, nothing seems to be able to dock at this.  I'm not surprised, tbh.  The real issue is that everything seems to be trying.  Had to edit the utils to basically make the Omnifac ignored, since I don't really want to look for why they aren't docking, although the omnifactory changing hands would be interesting.

Hmmm try leaving it as "Neutral" and copying the neutral.faction file from base StarSector into the Exerelin/data/world/factions folder and adding  neutral.faction to factions.csv in the same folder. This should give you access to the Neutral faction, and all other factions should be at peace with neutral, which will stop them all from trying to take over the OmniFactory :P

Next version I will include the neutral faction files in so that hopefully the OmniFactory 'just works' out of the box for those that want it. I don't really want to include the OmniFactory as a base rule as I prefer the idea of only using your own factions ships/weapons, and having those choices not being ideal, but on the other hand I imagine there are a few people that want to use it :)

I'm down with that.  Honestly though, with the current state of the game, the variety an playing with all the different ships is what keeps me playing.  I'd just run out of steam without the variety, an the omnifac gives me a tool to do it which isn't really "cheating".

And including the neutral faction files is what I was originally going to do, but, I thought about it, and didn't really know if it would suddenly cause any issues, like the game trying to spawn "neutral" faction fleets or anything.  I'll probably change to this method if you don't think there's going to be issues, but I worried since in the spawn scripts for that sort of thing it just looks for "possible factions", at least as far as I read.  At the time, I didn't much feel like going into it anymore.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 08, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
Adventure Civilian Battleship is from Neutrino Corp
also never saw the Blowtorch Construction Ship also from Neutrino

Thanks I'll check it out and add them :)



Yeah neutral.faction file won't cause any issues (that's how the rebal and trade guild are done currently). Just don't add neutral to the list of possible factions :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: CopperCoyote on May 08, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Yay omnifactory! I really like being able to make optimal ships or flooding a certain type of ship. Its fun to see what happens. Imagine all the possibilities added with a new solar system with every character.

Are the AI factions supposed to always leave the player with one base? I started as pirates for giggles, and was nearly immediately crushed by the independants. Shortly after the warning message popped up telling me they were boarding my (only) station they ended the war. That's been the only time i've had my last base under attack and couldn't fight them immediately(the dram is a terrible combat ship).

Can a player keep going after all stations are lost? What affect will the player's fleet have on no respawns games?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 09, 2013, 12:29:04 AM
Yay omnifactory! I really like being able to make optimal ships or flooding a certain type of ship. Its fun to see what happens. Imagine all the possibilities added with a new solar system with every character.

Are the AI factions supposed to always leave the player with one base? I started as pirates for giggles, and was nearly immediately crushed by the independants. Shortly after the warning message popped up telling me they were boarding my (only) station they ended the war. That's been the only time i've had my last base under attack and couldn't fight them immediately(the dram is a terrible combat ship).

Can a player keep going after all stations are lost? What affect will the player's fleet have on no respawns games?

Haha you were saved at the last minute! Other factions will conquer all your stations, then you will get a large fleet to help you conquer a new station.

Player restart fleets will spawn even if respawn is turned off.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 09, 2013, 05:29:05 AM
Actually RE OmniFactory:

It won't work 'out of the box' as Exerelin replaces the generators.csv file (I finally got around to testing out the OmniFactory stuff myself :P) Unfortuantely you'll still need to merge the OmniFactory mod files with the Exerelin mod files. I'll write a quick how-to for that soon (probably in line with the next release of Exerelin).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Vinch on May 09, 2013, 06:11:07 AM
Hey folks.

First i want to gratz Exerelin for this great mod!

It really raised the interest for the game but i miss my favorite ships from Ironclad (UIN mostly) so much.

So i made a quick attempt to add it in the faction roster and since my experience in starfarersector modding is very short to say the least, i messed up somewhere.

90% of the work was just copy/pasting some files from Ironclad in the (hopefully) right directories. So far i only edited some .csv files, scripts ones (charractercreation) and created faction files as well.

So here's the log:

Spoiler
5942 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.plugins.LevelupPluginImpl] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6021 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.plugins.TestCombatPlugin] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6129 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Compiling script [data.scripts.world.BaseSpawnPoint]
6395 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["cost_frigate"] is not a number.
org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["cost_frigate"] is not a number.
   at org.json.JSONObject.getDouble(JSONObject.java:451)
   at org.json.JSONObject.getInt(JSONObject.java:468)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.if(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.H.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
6747 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.world.SectorGen] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6792 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Compiling script [data.scripts.world.BaseSpawnPoint]
6792 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.world.SectorGen] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7005 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.turningthetables.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7091 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.forthegreaterlud.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7153 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.thewolfpack.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7212 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.ambush.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7315 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.hornetsnest.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7381 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.thelasthurrah.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7451 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.direstraits.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
[close]


Can't figure whats going on so if someone have an idea...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: NITROtbomb on May 09, 2013, 06:17:56 AM
i welcome you to the forums Vinch... and kudos for attempting this :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Vinch on May 09, 2013, 06:27:06 AM
Thank mate!

Seems like i will spend more time in the logs than in the game  ;)

Still figuring were to find this json related thing.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: NITROtbomb on May 09, 2013, 06:30:57 AM
dont even ask me :D i got no clue about modding or codes except for the gaming course at school in which we used GameMaker "shudder"
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 09, 2013, 10:31:01 AM
Hey folks.

First i want to gratz Exerelin for this great mod!

It really raised the interest for the game but i miss my favorite ships from Ironclad (UIN mostly) so much.

So i made a quick attempt to add it in the faction roster and since my experience in starfarersector modding is very short to say the least, i messed up somewhere.

90% of the work was just copy/pasting some files from Ironclad in the (hopefully) right directories. So far i only edited some .csv files, scripts ones (charractercreation) and created faction files as well.

So here's the log:

Spoiler
5942 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.plugins.LevelupPluginImpl] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6021 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.plugins.TestCombatPlugin] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6129 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Compiling script [data.scripts.world.BaseSpawnPoint]
6395 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["cost_frigate"] is not a number.
org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["cost_frigate"] is not a number.
   at org.json.JSONObject.getDouble(JSONObject.java:451)
   at org.json.JSONObject.getInt(JSONObject.java:468)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.if(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.H.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
6747 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.world.SectorGen] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6792 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Compiling script [data.scripts.world.BaseSpawnPoint]
6792 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.world.SectorGen] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7005 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.turningthetables.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7091 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.forthegreaterlud.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7153 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.thewolfpack.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7212 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.ambush.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7315 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.hornetsnest.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7381 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.thelasthurrah.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7451 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.direstraits.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
[close]


Can't figure whats going on so if someone have an idea...

I am not a Java coder, but I've done practically everything else, so here's my guesses.

Since you don't really code, I'm going to guess you forgot some sort of dependency.  It looks to me like cost_frigate is a variable that was never initialized with data.  Possibly forgot to integrate the ship data into the csv tables about ships?  These are just my best guesses.  Couldn't tell without looking at it/trying to do it myself.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Etfaks on May 09, 2013, 11:19:28 AM
Finally got around to try your mod and its really nice change of pace. Feels very dynamic which is cool, but whats up with all the easy pickings transport ships? Anyway im mostly writing because I got a crash / error when picking the inanna class ship (shadowyards).

cheers :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 09, 2013, 01:46:46 PM
Hey folks.

First i want to gratz Exerelin for this great mod!

It really raised the interest for the game but i miss my favorite ships from Ironclad (UIN mostly) so much.

So i made a quick attempt to add it in the faction roster and since my experience in starfarersector modding is very short to say the least, i messed up somewhere.

90% of the work was just copy/pasting some files from Ironclad in the (hopefully) right directories. So far i only edited some .csv files, scripts ones (charractercreation) and created faction files as well.

So here's the log:

Spoiler
5942 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.plugins.LevelupPluginImpl] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6021 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.plugins.TestCombatPlugin] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6129 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Compiling script [data.scripts.world.BaseSpawnPoint]
6395 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["cost_frigate"] is not a number.
org.json.JSONException: JSONObject["cost_frigate"] is not a number.
   at org.json.JSONObject.getDouble(JSONObject.java:451)
   at org.json.JSONObject.getInt(JSONObject.java:468)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.if(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.H.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
6747 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.world.SectorGen] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
6792 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Compiling script [data.scripts.world.BaseSpawnPoint]
6792 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.scripts.world.SectorGen] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7005 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.turningthetables.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7091 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.forthegreaterlud.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7153 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.thewolfpack.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7212 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.ambush.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7315 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.hornetsnest.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7381 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.thelasthurrah.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
7451 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [data.missions.direstraits.MissionDefinition] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
[close]


Can't figure whats going on so if someone have an idea...

Yeah I like the Ironclads mod, great stuff in there!

To add other factions your on the right track:
 - Copy file structure from the graphics and data folders into the Exerelin folder structure
 - Append the existing .csv files in various folders with the entries from the other mod
 - Add the .faction file and add it to the factions.csv file
   - Setup the exerelin[fleetName] fleets (see the other faction files for examples)
 - Add the faction id to possibleFactions in ExerelinData.java (see first post in this thread)
   - You can safely remove any from this list as well (just leave "player" and two others)
 - Add the starter ships to the appropriate place in CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java (near the bottom)
 - Add specific faction weapons in OutSystemSupplyConvoySpawnPoint.java in the getFactionWeapons method (near the bottom)

As for your specific error, check the hullmods.csv file. The 4th value is cost_frigate, and just make sure it is a number. Different mods have slightly different format .csv files so I normally have to do a bit of checking and fixing before everything works properly.

Good luck :)

Finally got around to try your mod and its really nice change of pace. Feels very dynamic which is cool, but whats up with all the easy pickings transport ships? Anyway im mostly writing because I got a crash / error when picking the inanna class ship (shadowyards).

cheers :)

Thanks I'll check it out :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Vinch on May 09, 2013, 02:58:48 PM

Yeah I like the Ironclads mod, great stuff in there!

To add other factions your on the right track:
 - Copy file structure from the graphics and data folders into the Exerelin folder structure
 - Append the existing .csv files in various folders with the entries from the other mod
 - Add the .faction file and add it to the factions.csv file
   - Setup the exerelin[fleetName] fleets (see the other faction files for examples)
 - Add the faction id to possibleFactions in ExerelinData.java (see first post in this thread)
   - You can safely remove any from this list as well (just leave "player" and two others)
 - Add the starter ships to the appropriate place in CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java (near the bottom)
 - Add specific faction weapons in OutSystemSupplyConvoySpawnPoint.java in the getFactionWeapons method (near the bottom)

As for your specific error, check the hullmods.csv file. The 4th value is cost_frigate, and just make sure it is a number. Different mods have slightly different format .csv files so I normally have to do a bit of checking and fixing before everything works properly.

Good luck :)

Thanks I'll check it out :)

Thanks for the help.
I did most of your step by step minus the faction weapons stuff but sadly the error with [cost_frigate] remains, despite lookin further in hullmods.csv.

Dunno if iam too tired or focused but i cant find any difference between Ironclads file and yours.

I fixed some errors in the ship.csv but nothing else so... unless i want to do like my avatar i will look on that tomorrow  ;)

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: theSONY on May 09, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
Spoiler
174859 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
174875 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 206,96 MB of texture data so far
175437 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
202328 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading ..\\saves/save_PINDOL_1596742542651845288...
214406 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
214469 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Finished loading
278734 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
Title screen Bug
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖ?000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
[close]
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 02:23:14 AM
Thanks for the help.
I did most of your step by step minus the faction weapons stuff but sadly the error with [cost_frigate] remains, despite lookin further in hullmods.csv.

Dunno if iam too tired or focused but i cant find any difference between Ironclads file and yours.

I fixed some errors in the ship.csv but nothing else so... unless i want to do like my avatar i will look on that tomorrow  ;)

Hmmm OK well there is another way. It is in some ways easier but you will need to edit the other mod so take a backup of it :)

 - Change Exerelin and ironclads from total conversions (in their mod_info.json files)
 - Delete the generators.csv file from ironclads (data/world)
   - I would also probably delete the data/scripts/world folder just to be sure
 - Delete the player, pirate, independant faction files from ironclads (and remove the entries from the factions.csv file) (data/world/factions)
 - Delete the CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java from ironclads (data/scripts/plugins)

 - Add the various Exerelin fleets to the faction file for the factions you want to include
   - Leave the faction files in the ironclads mod structure
 - Add the weapon sets to the OutSystemSupplyConvoySpawnPoint.java in Exerelin
 - Add the faction ids to possibleFactions in ExerelinData.java
 - Add the starter ships to the appropriate place in Exerelin's CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java

 - When loading StarSector, load both mods + LazyLib

The end result should be that you load everything from both Exerelin and ironclads, but because you have removed or disabled all the scripts from ironclads you should basically just end up with the factions and all the assets. Note this method should work for any other mod.

This is actually close to how I wanted Exerelin to work initially but it's a bit problematic for a few reasons so I had to bundle other factions with Exerelin (which is nicer in some ways, less mucking around). I also want it to determine the weapon sets based on the ship variants a faction uses (I'll have to have another look at this at some point).

Hopefully that works for you :)

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 02:25:51 AM
Spoiler
174859 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
174875 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 206,96 MB of texture data so far
175437 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
202328 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading ..\\saves/save_PINDOL_1596742542651845288...
214406 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
214469 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Finished loading
278734 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
Title screen Bug
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖ?000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
[close]


Yep I have no idea what causes that. :( It seems to happen very randomly, but not very often.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: theSONY on May 10, 2013, 03:10:26 AM
Spoiler
174859 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
174875 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 206,96 MB of texture data so far
175437 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
202328 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading ..\\saves/save_PINDOL_1596742542651845288...
214406 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
214469 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Finished loading
278734 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
Title screen Bug
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖ?000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
[close]


Yep I have no idea what causes that. :( It seems to happen very randomly, but not very often.
no worry, i dont belive its from you, rather 1 of the mods issue , but this is the 1 of the things that you can live on i think ;p
PS: any new ver. comming up this weekend ?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 03:31:33 AM
Spoiler
174859 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
174875 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 206,96 MB of texture data so far
175437 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
202328 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading ..\\saves/save_PINDOL_1596742542651845288...
214406 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
214469 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Finished loading
278734 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
Title screen Bug
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖ?000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
[close]


Yep I have no idea what causes that. :( It seems to happen very randomly, but not very often.
no worry, i dont belive its from you, rather 1 of the mods issue , but this is the 1 of the things that you can live on i think ;p
PS: any new ver. comming up this weekend ?

Yep  ;D Just one more tiny bug to fix and then good to go!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: josh5671 on May 10, 2013, 03:52:50 AM
Meet a error~
Code
41376 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error compiling [data.scripts.plugins.ArmorPiercePlugin]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error compiling [data.scripts.plugins.ArmorPiercePlugin]
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Parsing compilation unit "com.fs.starfarer.loading.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO[email protected]1818f80"
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceIClassLoader.findIClass(JavaSourceIClassLoader.java:180)
at org.codehaus.janino.IClassLoader.loadIClass(IClassLoader.java:158)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:199)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:164)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248)
... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: File data/scripts/plugins/ArmorPiercePlugin.java, Line 16, Column 7: Imported class "org.lazywizard.lazylib.CollisionUtils" could not be loaded
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileError(UnitCompiler.java:9403)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.import2(UnitCompiler.java:256)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$0(UnitCompiler.java:240)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$1.visitSingleTypeImportDeclaration(UnitCompiler.java:230)
at org.codehaus.janino.Java$CompilationUnit$SingleTypeImportDeclaration.accept(Java.java:170)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.<init>(UnitCompiler.java:228)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceIClassLoader.findIClass(JavaSourceIClassLoader.java:154)
... 7 more
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Sproginator on May 10, 2013, 05:01:09 AM
Requires Lazy Lib
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.41
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 05:06:02 AM
Meet a error~
Code
41376 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error compiling [data.scripts.plugins.ArmorPiercePlugin]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error compiling [data.scripts.plugins.ArmorPiercePlugin]
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Parsing compilation unit "com.fs.starfarer.loading.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO[email protected]1818f80"
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceIClassLoader.findIClass(JavaSourceIClassLoader.java:180)
at org.codehaus.janino.IClassLoader.loadIClass(IClassLoader.java:158)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:199)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:164)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:307)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:248)
... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: File data/scripts/plugins/ArmorPiercePlugin.java, Line 16, Column 7: Imported class "org.lazywizard.lazylib.CollisionUtils" could not be loaded
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileError(UnitCompiler.java:9403)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.import2(UnitCompiler.java:256)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$0(UnitCompiler.java:240)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$1.visitSingleTypeImportDeclaration(UnitCompiler.java:230)
at org.codehaus.janino.Java$CompilationUnit$SingleTypeImportDeclaration.accept(Java.java:170)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.<init>(UnitCompiler.java:228)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceIClassLoader.findIClass(JavaSourceIClassLoader.java:154)
... 7 more

You need to run LazyLib at the same time.

EDIT:

Beaten :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 05:26:19 AM
New version as promised:

Code
0.5
 - Added Interstellar Federation
 - Added Relics (Purifiers + Elder)
 - Added OmniFactory option
 - Added missing weapons from Hegemony, TriTachyon, Pirate, Independent, Neutrino convoys
 - Added missing ships from Neutrino faction
 - Changed faction selection list to split over two screens
 - Fixed issue where In-System supply fleets could spawn with less than minimum crew

EDIT:
This *should* be save compatible with 0.41, except those games won't have the new factions or the OmniFactory.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: theSONY on May 10, 2013, 06:38:02 AM
Dang... it's still HOT  ;D
                                                                                     checking in progress....
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 10, 2013, 07:52:40 AM
New version as promised:

Code
0.5
 - Added Interstellar Federation
 - Added Relics (Purifiers + Elder)
 - Added OmniFactory option
 - Added missing weapons from Hegemony, TriTachyon, Pirate, Independent, Neutrino convoys
 - Added missing ships from Neutrino faction
 - Changed faction selection list to split over two screens
 - Fixed issue where In-System supply fleets could spawn with less than minimum crew

Y'know, the reason I was sad when I switched to this from Uomoz's was because I didn't have my favorite faction.  Obviously, that has changed.  And it seems you've formally integrated OmniFac?  Neat!  I'll have to re-download and figure out what I want to mess with next.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 02:52:50 PM
New version as promised:

Code
0.5
 - Added Interstellar Federation
 - Added Relics (Purifiers + Elder)
 - Added OmniFactory option
 - Added missing weapons from Hegemony, TriTachyon, Pirate, Independent, Neutrino convoys
 - Added missing ships from Neutrino faction
 - Changed faction selection list to split over two screens
 - Fixed issue where In-System supply fleets could spawn with less than minimum crew

Y'know, the reason I was sad when I switched to this from Uomoz's was because I didn't have my favorite faction.  Obviously, that has changed.  And it seems you've formally integrated OmniFac?  Neat!  I'll have to re-download and figure out what I want to mess with next.

Yeah just supporting the OmniFactory was going to be 99% of the work (it was more complicated than I thought) so I figured I might as well just include it and makes things easier :)

This version *should* be save compatible.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 10, 2013, 03:16:18 PM
Y'know, the reason I was sad when I switched to this from Uomoz's was because I didn't have my favorite faction.  Obviously, that has changed.  And it seems you've formally integrated OmniFac?  Neat!  I'll have to re-download and figure out what I want to mess with next.

Yeah just supporting the OmniFactory was going to be 99% of the work (it was more complicated than I thought) so I figured I might as well just include it and makes things easier :)

This version *should* be save compatible.

Well, I'm the type who can't leave well enough alone, of course.  XD  I have some ideas I'd love to see in the mod.  I may end up adding it myself.  If I do that, do you want me to pm anything to you?  Wouldn't want to get annoying or anything.  You'd be welcome to use anything I added without worrying about anything.  It's just if I make it, why not share it?  Would be silly to just keep it to myself.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Fantastic Chimni on May 10, 2013, 06:41:34 PM
Is there any way to grab a station ourselves to use as a base? I like not getting ships for free from my allied stations, but I dislike having to pay money to store the ships/weapons/crew im not currently using.

I miss having an empty station I could just dump gear into without having to buy it back...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 10, 2013, 11:59:09 PM
Well, I'm the type who can't leave well enough alone, of course.  XD  I have some ideas I'd love to see in the mod.  I may end up adding it myself.  If I do that, do you want me to pm anything to you?  Wouldn't want to get annoying or anything.  You'd be welcome to use anything I added without worrying about anything.  It's just if I make it, why not share it?  Would be silly to just keep it to myself.

Yep essentially that thinking is what drove me to build Exerelin, why not share it with others :)

Definitely PM me if it is something you think would be worthwhile folding back into the mod (I would of course credit you for it) as I have a few things on the roadmap for it myself.

Is there any way to grab a station ourselves to use as a base? I like not getting ships for free from my allied stations, but I dislike having to pay money to store the ships/weapons/crew im not currently using.

I miss having an empty station I could just dump gear into without having to buy it back...

You mean like the abandoned storage facility? Yeah I'll add it in for the next release, as I'll probably remove the 'free-transfer at your faction stations' option and move Exerelin to the 'things cost money but you get paid wages (and danger pay!)' option, as (in my mind) this seems to work a bit better, especially with the OmniFactory.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 11, 2013, 12:27:18 PM
Dude..you should put the hawkin fleet in...the ships look very nice and sleek and they seem very fun :)...btw it crashes the moment it loads..i dont know why either :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Dekeon on May 12, 2013, 04:26:51 PM
Dude..you should put the hawkin fleet in...the ships look very nice and sleek and they seem very fun

I'll second the Hawken fleet addition as I really like how those ships look, and the mod has two factions in it, Hawken and Orthin(I think I'm remembering the names right).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 12, 2013, 05:56:20 PM
WAIT...important faction to add...Thule Legacy...they are vanilla balanced and there fun and interesting :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 12, 2013, 06:24:14 PM
Dude..you should put the hawkin fleet in...the ships look very nice and sleek and they seem very fun :)...btw it crashes the moment it loads..i dont know why either :(

Hmmm although the Hawken fleet ships do look nice they are not really the same style as the rest. I probably won't be adding them in the near future sorry.

A few replies back I outlined a couple of ways to put factions in yourself.

WAIT...important faction to add...Thule Legacy...they are vanilla balanced and there fun and interesting :)

Yeah I'll be adding Thules Legacy soon, Thule has just released and update and I just want to wait till everything is final with that before adding them.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Augure on May 12, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Nice mod. The dynamic system is cool.

It's a bit frustrating to be in peace with the whole galaxy. But if I break peace with one faction, several factions attack me (alliance system) and it's hard if to not be surrounded and not to loose my base(s).

In my party, Blackrock dominate the system, I don't understand why. Sometimes rebel Blackrock come but they don't help very much. I try to help my faction to defend / attack nearby Blackrock but my faction doesn't have enough (supply?) ships to take over their bases.

I have a good fleet and i can beat every encounter whith automatic battle. A little more challenge (biggest fleet for cpu) and a counter against large faction would be nice :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: XeroLogik on May 12, 2013, 10:18:29 PM
So what are some good 'optimal' settings? I've started a few games in Exerelin, but finding a good setup isn't easy. You create too many planets and they overlap like mad, which (as well as a problem with number of stations) can cause defense fleets to just perpetually smash into each other. Too many factions and you can easily lose track of the politics.

9-12 planets seems good to keep everything looking well, but I have yet to figure out a good balance with number of stations and number of factions. Anyone able to comment on what good ratios seem to be, or at what point things tend to get a little too excessive/underwheming?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: kupan9 on May 13, 2013, 12:46:33 AM
A couple of notes after having lost time played the mod for the time I should have been sleeping evening.

One, There should be some limit on the percentage of the universe that can be allied. The rest can be neutral, but it leads to some wonky politics when to many are allied at once.

Two, Could you make it so only factions that actually still have a station are the target of war declarations?

Three, When an AI fleet is near an allied station (AI or Player) that is being taken over it would be useful if they actually stopped it. Considering the basic fleet behavior this one is probably the most irritating to do.

Four, I assume you can't do anything about this but if you can force a garbage cleanup or something every minute or so to make the stations change colors that would be great.

What led to this post was primarily the first two. Just now I was cruising the galaxy looking for some trouble (too many allied factions), when my faction and all the other allied factions declare war on the Shadowyards Heavy Industries. YES! So I tab and start browsing around the map to try to find a SHI fleet. No luck. So I spend the next 5 minutes checking each of the 30 stations manually for a SHI station to be ready for when a fleet spawns. Not a single station. I double checked. Well, that was disappointing. Anyways, Love the mod. Thanks for adding in the Interstellar Federation.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 13, 2013, 01:04:11 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone :)

Nice mod. The dynamic system is cool.

It's a bit frustrating to be in peace with the whole galaxy. But if I break peace with one faction, several factions attack me (alliance system) and it's hard if to not be surrounded and not to loose my base(s).

In my party, Blackrock dominate the system, I don't understand why. Sometimes rebel Blackrock come but they don't help very much. I try to help my faction to defend / attack nearby Blackrock but my faction doesn't have enough (supply?) ships to take over their bases.

I have a good fleet and i can beat every encounter whith automatic battle. A little more challenge (biggest fleet for cpu) and a counter against large faction would be nice :)

Yeah I'm going to build the faction relationship system up a bit more to *hopefully* auto-counter a leading faction. At the moment if a faction dominates the system it's very difficult to dislodge them.

So what are some good 'optimal' settings? I've started a few games in Exerelin, but finding a good setup isn't easy. You create too many planets and they overlap like mad, which (as well as a problem with number of stations) can cause defense fleets to just perpetually smash into each other. Too many factions and you can easily lose track of the politics.

9-12 planets seems good to keep everything looking well, but I have yet to figure out a good balance with number of stations and number of factions. Anyone able to comment on what good ratios seem to be, or at what point things tend to get a little too excessive/underwheming?

The planet/station overlap will come and go, as all of them orbit at different speeds.

I tend to agree that 9-12 planets is good, with 15-25 stations and 3 factions (+ the players one). This was what it was initially designed towards (with only the vanilla factions) but having said that, my favorite games have been with the maximum planets/stations and 3 factions, or 3 planets and 10 stations with 1 other faction.

I'm a little unhappy with how factions come to the system later in the game and at the moment I tend to play my games with respawn off. I think I'll add a setting so that it will respawn factions, but ONLY the factions that started in the system. At the moment it can become pretty chaotic late game!

A couple of notes after having lost time played the mod for the time I should have been sleeping evening.

One, There should be some limit on the percentage of the universe that can be allied. The rest can be neutral, but it leads to some wonky politics when to many are allied at once.

Two, Could you make it so only factions that actually still have a station are the target of war declarations?

Three, When an AI fleet is near an allied station (AI or Player) that is being taken over it would be useful if they actually stopped it. Considering the basic fleet behavior this one is probably the most irritating to do.

Four, I assume you can't do anything about this but if you can force a garbage cleanup or something every minute or so to make the stations change colors that would be great.

What led to this post was primarily the first two. Just now I was cruising the galaxy looking for some trouble (too many allied factions), when my faction and all the other allied factions declare war on the Shadowyards Heavy Industries. YES! So I tab and start browsing around the map to try to find a SHI fleet. No luck. So I spend the next 5 minutes checking each of the 30 stations manually for a SHI station to be ready for when a fleet spawns. Not a single station. I double checked. Well, that was disappointing. Anyways, Love the mod. Thanks for adding in the Interstellar Federation.

One:  I will be building more into the relationship system soon which should hopefully help alleviate things like this (I don't want to remove the chance completely but at the moment there is too much allying going on and not enough neutral/war). At the moment it's a bit *simple* still but I have a few ideas to improve it!

Two: This should actually already be the case, unless a faction is not in the system and is sending an out system attack fleet (they need to be at war with someone to take over their station). I will double check though.

Three: Perhaps I can do this. I'll have a think. It might cause more issues (leaving their own stations undefended etc.) but I agree it's a bit jarring when an ally does nothing :P I have a few ideas in this area so hopefully I can improve it!

Four: Sorry I wish I could fix this but I'm fairly sure I can't. You can save then load the save and it will update the colours but otherwise... :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: theSONY on May 13, 2013, 05:24:46 AM
relics faithoper main gun (Ultima) build in weapon is missing
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/79dIXPl.png?1?8117)
[close]

+ elders got too much personell transport & they 2 capital ships are 0 crew needed  :P
i dunno how about fighting with faithoper is he got the Ultima or not
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: TheKillerWolf on May 13, 2013, 10:39:02 AM
yea on a previous save i had. i actually looted the ultima. i wasnt able to slot it on anything at the time tho.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: kupan9 on May 13, 2013, 12:14:31 PM
I haven't dug through your diplomacy code, but if you are using how long you have been at war to determine when you should ally then it is probably the case where people who keep forcing a war against someone end up with a fully allied universe. It might be better to have two different sets of logic for war and alliance. Maybe something like:
Spoiler
Reliability = How many alliances you have broken. Maybe "forget one"(-1 to value) every (other?) week.
Neutrals = Factions that are not part of an "Alliance"
Alliance = A set of factions that are all allied with each other. Probably should make them more cohesive so that allies ally with ally's ally. No I can't think of a better way to put that.
Alliance Size = If you are able to easily track it, I would say judge Alliance Size by the number of allied STATIONS not Factions.
Small Alliance = An Alliance with 10-15% alliance size or less. Could be compared to total number of stations or compared to the largest Alliance depending on your preference and or balance.
Civil War! = Up to half the Player Alliance may break off from the Alliance and start their own Alliance or all become Neutral. Chance to be hostile to player alliance based on Reliability
                and possibly number of factions at war with Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance remaining size.

Alliance :
What is the Player Alliance Size?
     0-40% - How long since the Player was last allied?
            Just declared war on ally this week - Nothing Happens.
            It hasn't been long since last Ally - Nothing Happens.
            Been a little while - Are there any neutrals?
                      No  - Is there a Alliance with +10% or more of your size?
                                    No - Is there an Alliance with -10% to +10% your Alliance Size?
                                                  No - Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are you at war with them?
                                                                 No - Nothing Happens.
                                                                 Yes - Chance to declare peace with someone at war, depending on Reliability and largest non-Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance. Higher Reliability,
                                                                         Higher Non Player Alliance Size and longer duration of the war with the Alliance increase chance of Declaring peace with target Alliance.
                                    Yes-Are you at war with them?
                                                  No- Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are there any Small Alliances that you are at peace with?
                                                                 No -  Are there any Small Alliances that you are at war with?
                                                                                   No - Haha you are being overwhelmed. SMALL chance of a Faction not more than 10% of the Alliance breaking away from them and joining you.
                                                                                   Yes - Chance to declare peace with the Small Alliance depending on Reliability and duration of war with the Alliance.
                                                                 Yes - Would your Alliance size be more than the largest Non Player Alliance Size +10% if you Allied with them?
                                                                                   No - Chance to ally with them depending on Reliability
                                                                                   Yes - Are they at war with the Largest Non Player Alliance?
                                                                                                   No - They declare war on the Largest Non Player Alliance and post a message implying they may join you later.
                                                                                                   Yes - Chance they will join your Alliance.
                      Yes - Declare an ally with a neutral.
     40%-90% - What is the largest non-Player Alliance?
            None to -41% of Player Alliance Size -Is there a Non Player Alliance?
                      No - Are there two or more neutrals?
                                   No - Chance of Civil War!
                                   Yes - Ally Neutrals together up to max of Player Alliance size + 10%
                      Yes - Ally neutral(s) to a Non Player Alliance with an increased chance of more neutrals the smaller the largest Non Player Alliance compared to the Player Alliance.
            -40% to -11% of Player Alliance size - Are there any neutrals?
                      No - chance of Civil war!
                      Yes - Ally a neutral to a Non Player Alliance.
            -10% to +10% of Player Alliance Size - Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - Might want to start. Chance of War being declared.
                      Yes - Excellent.
            +11% to +50% of Player Alliance Size- Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - War is declared. Possibly declaring a Final or Galactic war which has all remaining Alliances and neutrals join the Player Alliance or the largest Non Player Alliance.
                      Yes - Fun times. Chance of defection by a smaller Faction within the Largest Non Player Alliance. Increased chance with greater difference in Player Alliance and Non Player Alliance size.
            +51% - +100% of Player Alliance Size - Are you doing your math correctly?
                      No - Recheck your math. If Player Alliance Size is minimum of 40% of the total station count, and you have more than 50% larger than that opposing it, you have more than 100% of stations.
                             IE: Lets say 100 stations, Player owns minimum of 40, largest Non Player Faction has 50% more ( 40 + (50% of 40 = 20) 20 = 60) then 40 + 60 = 100 or all stations.
                      Yes - Very good, Carry on.
     90%-100% - Do you have any Non Player Factions in your Alliance?
            No - Really? You win....Wait no. REBELS! SPAWN MORE FACTIONS! KILL THE INFIDELS!
            Yes - They don't like your Monopoly and declare Civil WAR! Are you the largest Faction in the Player Alliance?
                      No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                      Yes - Are you more than half the Faction size?
                                 No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                                 Yes - EVERYONE IS AGAINST YOU! Crush the Dogs!. No real change in the mechanic, this would be passively done by the same algorithm that would do the last two items.
War :
No time right now.

This type of system would produce more of a Us VS Them kinda feel with emphasis on ending with two alliances, while still allowing third party alliance. This would ideally result in you having an ever growing alliance against you as you gain allies and or stations for your faction, while forcing you to eventually put down every other faction to rule the system as you are forced to constantly fight your old allies to continue your march toward a Totalitarianist Regime.Or whatever your faction believes in. And then it would all go to Hell in a Handbasket and you get to try to maintain order. If you implemented the logic and kept atleast one war going at all times, you wouldn't have to do much in the way of random wars or alliances because just the fact that a war is going on with atleast one faction or alliance that has atleast one station would keep the game changing and so the logic would just re-apply and continue progress. Also Players have been known to be %^[email protected] and mess things up occasionally when bored ::). You could do a simpler version of the logic with less care toward "balance" for non player factions to encourage multiple Alliances until they get absorbed into one side or the other.

If this sounds interesting to you let me know and I can flesh it out some more and include some war logic that isn't apocalyptic.
[close]
Unfortunately I don't know java, and don't have the time to dedicate to learning it right now or I would want to join in on this mod. I am more of a C and Perl kinda guy anyways. Anyways, Sorry for the mess and any gaping logic holes I left in the above, My lunch time is about run out and I need to get back to work.

TLDR:
I have thoughts about diplomacy, most of them boring.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 13, 2013, 02:50:20 PM
relics faithoper main gun (Ultima) build in weapon is missing
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/79dIXPl.png?1?8117)
[close]

+ elders got too much personell transport & they 2 capital ships are 0 crew needed  :P
i dunno how about fighting with faithoper is he got the Ultima or not

Thanks! Have fixed both issues for next version. The Faithoper delivered to the player was missing the built-in. It should be there in the AI controlled fleets.

I haven't dug through your diplomacy code, but if you are using how long you have been at war to determine when you should ally then it is probably the case where people who keep forcing a war against someone end up with a fully allied universe. It might be better to have two different sets of logic for war and alliance. Maybe something like:
Spoiler
Reliability = How many alliances you have broken. Maybe "forget one"(-1 to value) every (other?) week.
Neutrals = Factions that are not part of an "Alliance"
Alliance = A set of factions that are all allied with each other. Probably should make them more cohesive so that allies ally with ally's ally. No I can't think of a better way to put that.
Alliance Size = If you are able to easily track it, I would say judge Alliance Size by the number of allied STATIONS not Factions.
Small Alliance = An Alliance with 10-15% alliance size or less. Could be compared to total number of stations or compared to the largest Alliance depending on your preference and or balance.
Civil War! = Up to half the Player Alliance may break off from the Alliance and start their own Alliance or all become Neutral. Chance to be hostile to player alliance based on Reliability
                and possibly number of factions at war with Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance remaining size.

Alliance :
What is the Player Alliance Size?
     0-40% - How long since the Player was last allied?
            Just declared war on ally this week - Nothing Happens.
            It hasn't been long since last Ally - Nothing Happens.
            Been a little while - Are there any neutrals?
                      No  - Is there a Alliance with +10% or more of your size?
                                    No - Is there an Alliance with -10% to +10% your Alliance Size?
                                                  No - Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are you at war with them?
                                                                 No - Nothing Happens.
                                                                 Yes - Chance to declare peace with someone at war, depending on Reliability and largest non-Player Alliance compared to Player Alliance. Higher Reliability,
                                                                         Higher Non Player Alliance Size and longer duration of the war with the Alliance increase chance of Declaring peace with target Alliance.
                                    Yes-Are you at war with them?
                                                  No- Nothing Happens.
                                                  Yes - Are there any Small Alliances that you are at peace with?
                                                                 No -  Are there any Small Alliances that you are at war with?
                                                                                   No - Haha you are being overwhelmed. SMALL chance of a Faction not more than 10% of the Alliance breaking away from them and joining you.
                                                                                   Yes - Chance to declare peace with the Small Alliance depending on Reliability and duration of war with the Alliance.
                                                                 Yes - Would your Alliance size be more than the largest Non Player Alliance Size +10% if you Allied with them?
                                                                                   No - Chance to ally with them depending on Reliability
                                                                                   Yes - Are they at war with the Largest Non Player Alliance?
                                                                                                   No - They declare war on the Largest Non Player Alliance and post a message implying they may join you later.
                                                                                                   Yes - Chance they will join your Alliance.
                      Yes - Declare an ally with a neutral.
     40%-90% - What is the largest non-Player Alliance?
            None to -41% of Player Alliance Size -Is there a Non Player Alliance?
                      No - Are there two or more neutrals?
                                   No - Chance of Civil War!
                                   Yes - Ally Neutrals together up to max of Player Alliance size + 10%
                      Yes - Ally neutral(s) to a Non Player Alliance with an increased chance of more neutrals the smaller the largest Non Player Alliance compared to the Player Alliance.
            -40% to -11% of Player Alliance size - Are there any neutrals?
                      No - chance of Civil war!
                      Yes - Ally a neutral to a Non Player Alliance.
            -10% to +10% of Player Alliance Size - Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - Might want to start. Chance of War being declared.
                      Yes - Excellent.
            +11% to +50% of Player Alliance Size- Are you at war with the Largest non Player Alliance?
                      No - War is declared. Possibly declaring a Final or Galactic war which has all remaining Alliances and neutrals join the Player Alliance or the largest Non Player Alliance.
                      Yes - Fun times. Chance of defection by a smaller Faction within the Largest Non Player Alliance. Increased chance with greater difference in Player Alliance and Non Player Alliance size.
            +51% - +100% of Player Alliance Size - Are you doing your math correctly?
                      No - Recheck your math. If Player Alliance Size is minimum of 40% of the total station count, and you have more than 50% larger than that opposing it, you have more than 100% of stations.
                             IE: Lets say 100 stations, Player owns minimum of 40, largest Non Player Faction has 50% more ( 40 + (50% of 40 = 20) 20 = 60) then 40 + 60 = 100 or all stations.
                      Yes - Very good, Carry on.
     90%-100% - Do you have any Non Player Factions in your Alliance?
            No - Really? You win....Wait no. REBELS! SPAWN MORE FACTIONS! KILL THE INFIDELS!
            Yes - They don't like your Monopoly and declare Civil WAR! Are you the largest Faction in the Player Alliance?
                      No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                      Yes - Are you more than half the Faction size?
                                 No - Split the Alliance with the largest Non Player Faction vs the Player faction going down the list and adding factions to whichever side is smallest at the time.
                                 Yes - EVERYONE IS AGAINST YOU! Crush the Dogs!. No real change in the mechanic, this would be passively done by the same algorithm that would do the last two items.
War :
No time right now.

This type of system would produce more of a Us VS Them kinda feel with emphasis on ending with two alliances, while still allowing third party alliance. This would ideally result in you having an ever growing alliance against you as you gain allies and or stations for your faction, while forcing you to eventually put down every other faction to rule the system as you are forced to constantly fight your old allies to continue your march toward a Totalitarianist Regime.Or whatever your faction believes in. And then it would all go to Hell in a Handbasket and you get to try to maintain order. If you implemented the logic and kept atleast one war going at all times, you wouldn't have to do much in the way of random wars or alliances because just the fact that a war is going on with atleast one faction or alliance that has atleast one station would keep the game changing and so the logic would just re-apply and continue progress. Also Players have been known to be %^[email protected] and mess things up occasionally when bored ::). You could do a simpler version of the logic with less care toward "balance" for non player factions to encourage multiple Alliances until they get absorbed into one side or the other.

If this sounds interesting to you let me know and I can flesh it out some more and include some war logic that isn't apocalyptic.
[close]
Unfortunately I don't know java, and don't have the time to dedicate to learning it right now or I would want to join in on this mod. I am more of a C and Perl kinda guy anyways. Anyways, Sorry for the mess and any gaping logic holes I left in the above, My lunch time is about run out and I need to get back to work.

TLDR:
I have thoughts about diplomacy, most of them boring.

Wow thanks for the in-depth ideas! :)

I am not a Java programmer either so if you delve through there is probably some wtf's in there :P

As a brief explanation, at the moment each faction has a 'slider' which is what they think of another faction.
E.g factionA -> FactionB = 10 and factionB -> factionA = -30
If the value of those two sliders result is above/below certain values then they can declare war/peace/alliance. The slider value is determined by a number of things, one of which is how long have we been at war/have we not had a war. I think the mega-alliance problem occurs as alliances do not break often enough, and mega-alliances tend to kill off other factions very easily (as a small war target satisfies their need for a war). So basically it ends up with a mega-alliance stomping on small individual factions.

As to your ideas, they are actually on the same track as mine. At the moment there is no 'if this is an ally of my ally I like them more' consideration, nor a 'my ally is at war with this faction so I dislike them more'. I think that will add a lot. Once that is done, the alliance size becomes a good factor in impacting the previous i.e 'if that faction is an ally of my ally then I like them more, but if the alliance is getting to big I'm getting restless/jealous/whatever' type of structure. I hadn't considered reliability but that's a great way to make certain factions more 'swingish', switching from one alliance to another more easily than a 'reliable' faction.

I have a massive aversion to hard coding things but I'm debating about giving factions certain 'traits' and relationship preferences to other factions e.g.
Relics have an innate dislike for the Council, but have a strong bond with the Nomads. The Reilcs are also fairly unreliable.
Or maybe randomly assigning traits and preferences at the start of a new game might be a better idea...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: kupan9 on May 14, 2013, 01:14:00 PM
While having each Faction getting quirks, either randomly or intelligently designed, would definitely be fun I would hold off for now. With only one system and no ability to have menus or other ways of checking relations it would just feel to cluttered and hard to keep track of. You might want to add that to the list of "when I can add menus" items.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Talkie Toaster on May 14, 2013, 02:14:52 PM
If you were trying to find pretexts for war, resources would be a good one. It's currently quite hard to figure out which resources your empire is lacking in, but it'd make sense for people to go to war with the factions that have a surfeit of whatever you're lacking.

Also, unfortunately the Council don't seem to get a bunch of ships delivered (list below)- which list would I edit to add them?
Spoiler
~CAP SHIPS~
CENTAUR
OVERLORD
VENATOR
VENATOR MK II

~CRUISERS~
KIWI
MUSTANG
MUSTANG MK II
RAVEN MK II
VULTURE CLASS

~DESTROYER~
ALLIANCE
PHANTOM
PREFECT

~FRIGATE~
AMBASSADOR
DEFENDER
SPARROW
[close]

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 14, 2013, 04:35:39 PM
While having each Faction getting quirks, either randomly or intelligently designed, would definitely be fun I would hold off for now. With only one system and no ability to have menus or other ways of checking relations it would just feel to cluttered and hard to keep track of. You might want to add that to the list of "when I can add menus" items.

When possible, first thing I'll add is a diplomacy screen/display :)

If you were trying to find pretexts for war, resources would be a good one. It's currently quite hard to figure out which resources your empire is lacking in, but it'd make sense for people to go to war with the factions that have a surfeit of whatever you're lacking.

Also, unfortunately the Council don't seem to get a bunch of ships delivered (list below)- which list would I edit to add them?
Spoiler
~CAP SHIPS~
CENTAUR
OVERLORD
VENATOR
VENATOR MK II

~CRUISERS~
KIWI
MUSTANG
MUSTANG MK II
RAVEN MK II
VULTURE CLASS

~DESTROYER~
ALLIANCE
PHANTOM
PREFECT

~FRIGATE~
AMBASSADOR
DEFENDER
SPARROW
[close]



Thanks for the idea, I'll keep it in mind :)

As for missing ships, if you add the variants to the exerelinGenericFleet in the  council.faction file they will be delivered to the player and appear in attack/defense/rebel fleets. Also add them to exerelinOutSystemAttackFleet. I'll also add them for the next release (I probably forgot to add them initially).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Blade Skydancer on May 14, 2013, 10:27:33 PM
Hey.

Played this mod when it was first released and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Before it was switched over to being a total-conversion, it was actually spawning my weapons that I had made for a mod of mine, which I thought was pretty awesome. Now, though, that's not possible. I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to add certain weapons to a faction's weapon list, as I cannot for the life of me find which file or files control which weapons spawn for which factions?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 15, 2013, 01:18:54 AM
Hey.

Played this mod when it was first released and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Before it was switched over to being a total-conversion, it was actually spawning my weapons that I had made for a mod of mine, which I thought was pretty awesome. Now, though, that's not possible. I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to how to add certain weapons to a faction's weapon list, as I cannot for the life of me find which file or files control which weapons spawn for which factions?

Glad you've been enjoying it :)

The weapon lists for factions are stored in data\scripts\world\exerelin\OutSystemSupplyConvoySpawnPoint.java in the method getFactionWeapons()
If you have your own faction added or running in tandam with another (instructions were further back in this thread, i'll add the instructions to the first post soon) you can add the weapons here.

If you just want to randomise the weapons for each delivery (which will pick a number from all weapons available), just comment out all the code (/* */) in the getFactionWeapons() method and leave the line
Code
return new String[]{}; 




Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Blade Skydancer on May 15, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Thanks a lot for your help, Zaph. :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Talkie Toaster on May 15, 2013, 12:21:02 PM
As for missing ships, if you add the variants to the exerelinGenericFleet in the  council.faction file they will be delivered to the player and appear in attack/defense/rebel fleets. Also add them to exerelinOutSystemAttackFleet. I'll also add them for the next release (I probably forgot to add them initially).
Great, thanks :).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 16, 2013, 11:00:59 AM
It feels like my places dont produce as much ships as everyone else..and to top it off the neutrinos are way too busted because thanks to the auto-resolve not being fleshed out...things happen like the purifiers smashing into meteors and to make this mod turn bad is that the neutrinos always wind the auto resolve against my guys so even if i smash them myself they still swarm everywhere and takes my posts because the auto-resolve makes it that no matter what there guys are better then ours so the one ship...it can be a fighter squad..takes out three frigates on its own and usually the neutrinos win....has nobody seen this flaw yet...neutrinos ruin the experience because in the end they wind 90% of the battles...so theres no way to beat them...its just me...and even worse it hard protecting a capturing ship when they wonder off and fight people(even the neutrinos) and i cant slim their numbers v.v
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: kupan9 on May 16, 2013, 02:08:57 PM
It feels like my places dont produce as much ships as everyone else..and to top it off the neutrinos are way too busted because thanks to the auto-resolve not being fleshed out...things happen like the purifiers smashing into meteors and to make this mod turn bad is that the neutrinos always wind the auto resolve against my guys so even if i smash them myself they still swarm everywhere and takes my posts because the auto-resolve makes it that no matter what there guys are better then ours so the one ship...it can be a fighter squad..takes out three frigates on its own and usually the neutrinos win....has nobody seen this flaw yet...neutrinos ruin the experience because in the end they wind 90% of the battles...so theres no way to beat them...its just me...and even worse it hard protecting a capturing ship when they wonder off and fight people(even the neutrinos) and i cant slim their numbers v.v
You might want to check out the lower part of the first post, Specifically:
Restricting Certain Factions
It is very easy to restrict the possible factions:
 - Go to mods/Exerelin/data/scripts/world/exerelin/ExerelinData.java
 - Change the possibleFactions array (right at the top) to only list the factions you want to be available
   - Leave "player" and at least two other at a minimum
   - eg.
Code
private String[] possibleFactions = new String[] {"player", "hegemony", "tritachyon" };
- That's it! :)
I tend to agree that the Neutrinos aren't very fun. I am a little biased against them because they are DESIGNED to punish my play style of pimping out a single ship and personally wrecking fleets. But this thread isn't really the place to debate the merits of Neutrino balance. Zaphide has been nice enough to make an easy way to get rid of factions you don't like, it is pretty easy to do. To clarify, in case anyone needs it, the ExerelinData.java file isn't some mystic special format, it is able to be opened by pretty much any text editor. I personally use Notepad++, but I have verified that notepad works just fine if a bit messy because it doesn't use standard newline and tab formatted display. Wordpad displays it correctly.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 16, 2013, 04:06:36 PM
but neutrino's are unique and fun to fight in battle..its just the shield array makes all the auto-resolve stuff impossible to win....maybe we should tell the staff about this for next update
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 16, 2013, 04:12:12 PM
It feels like my places dont produce as much ships as everyone else..and to top it off the neutrinos are way too busted because thanks to the auto-resolve not being fleshed out...things happen like the purifiers smashing into meteors and to make this mod turn bad is that the neutrinos always wind the auto resolve against my guys so even if i smash them myself they still swarm everywhere and takes my posts because the auto-resolve makes it that no matter what there guys are better then ours so the one ship...it can be a fighter squad..takes out three frigates on its own and usually the neutrinos win....has nobody seen this flaw yet...neutrinos ruin the experience because in the end they wind 90% of the battles...so theres no way to beat them...its just me...and even worse it hard protecting a capturing ship when they wonder off and fight people(even the neutrinos) and i cant slim their numbers v.v

Kupan9 has kindly responded to the Neutrino issue :) The only thing I'll add is that although the Neutrinos do better due to the auto-resolve, I would rather attempt to balance this on a system-wide basis (i.e. if Neutrino's are dominating then all other factions gang up on them) than tweaking individual factions up and down. If Alex tweaks the auto-resolve to more correctly estimate for the Neutrino's then even better :)

This week I have been fixing a few issues with the supply convoy and fleet resource cost calculations, which had been resulting in smaller/less fleets all round, especially for the player. I'll hopefully have a new version soon which should fix this.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 16, 2013, 04:39:20 PM
dont you get it..even if they gang up on them they still fight one on one and they take little to no damage ever...theres no way you can gang up on them...its not like they can jump into the battles and help
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Zaphide on May 16, 2013, 05:12:11 PM
dont you get it..even if they gang up on them they still fight one on one and they take little to no damage ever...theres no way you can gang up on them...its not like they can jump into the battles and help

I am trying to say there is nothing I can do about the auto-resolve, and I don't want to change one of the Neutrino factions defining differences.

Therefore the next best thing I can do is attempt to balance it within the game systems I do control (inter faction relationships, max fleet sizes, resource costs), and allow the easy removal of certain factions if people don't like playing with them.

I understand the frustration but I don't want to write a lot of edge case code, and then have Alex change the auto-resolve mechanic. I guess it's one of the downsides with using a mod in development, that's for a game in development :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 16, 2013, 05:50:54 PM
i guess..i hope they solve it soon...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.5
Post by: theSONY on May 18, 2013, 10:39:05 AM
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/skk9YkS.png)
[close]
no comment. . .
also i got 6-8 planets without single station
also maybe every small fleet (or a single ship) should be just patroling/wondering the system insted attacking enemy station ( to me it's like 1 soldier attacking an fort/castle) & i doubt that it's possible to erase any attack attempts to the Atlas (station capture) so it won't go & chase everything that he 'thinks' he can handle
PS: & maybe add more bigger fleets because playing as a BIG fleet it's unprofitable
& maybe decrease number of the smallest fleets
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 19, 2013, 12:15:39 AM
Bit of a bug-fix, balance tweak and general fixes update.

Notably, added a new faction, a storage facility for the player and hopefully 'polished' it a little more.

EDIT: I've also updated the first post with details on how to add you own factions

Code
0.51
 - Added Nihilic Empire faction
 - Added Storage Facility for player, will be delivered and built at closest planet after getting first station
 - Added Atlas with blue engine flame for appropriate factions
 - Added option to only respawn starting factions
 - Removed option to get free transfer at player owned stations

 - Changed OmniFac to be delivered and built at closest planet after player gets first station
 - Changed initial station distribution to be more regular
 - Changed initial planet distribution to be more regular
 - Changed Rebel mechanic to cause some of the leading factions fleets to rebel against that faction
 - Change TradeGuild mechanic to cause factions (other than the faction coming last) supply fleets to support the faction coming last

 - Fixed issue with finding a random station for a faction
 - Fixed Relic Faithoper, Extinctioner and Queen requiring no crew
 - Fixed Relic Faithoper (player available hull) not having built in weapon
 - Fixed issue with out-system cargo fleet not delivering correct resource amount
 - Fixed issue with spawning fleets sometimes being extremely accident prone
 - Fixed issue with incorrect target station for out system attack fleets
 - Fixed issue calculating fleet cost from resources (was over charging)
 - Fixed missing Council faction ships in fleets

 - Station takeover now has an impact on faction relationships
 - War weariness now only affects ongoing wars, not all relationships
 - War, peace and alliance declaration now affect inter-relationships of all factions in system to some degree
 - Increased Attack, Defense, Patrol, Out System Attack max fleet sizes
 - Reduced number of attack and defense fleets (to 3 per station)
 - Allies can now send to supplies to each other if they have a surplus

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 19, 2013, 12:55:12 AM
i was afraid this will happen  :P Nihilic Empire got some serious balance issue , not only weapons or ships , also the size
AI  can't properly hit the bigger ships (vanilla thing) so i recomended that you remove Nihilic Empire
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 19, 2013, 12:59:49 AM
i was afraid this will happen  :P Nihilic Empire got some serious balance issue , not only weapons or ships , also the size
AI  can't properly hit the bigger ships (vanilla thing) so i recomended that you remove Nihilic Empire

I changed some of the stats on some of their ships slightly, so hopefully they won't be too bad :P

You mean the largest ship they have? I didn't notice anything too bad, but then I didn't test a lot against it...

If it's too bad I might remove them by default, but still leave all the assets there so if people want they can activate them and use them :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 19, 2013, 02:26:11 AM
You mean the largest ship they have? I didn't notice anything too bad, but then I didn't test a lot against it...

well this is not about  Nihilic Empire size , its a vanilla problem that if ship is BIG & long (or wide) the AI will start shooting at it but the bullets/beam wont hit the ship thats why vanilla ships are long & wide

I changed some of the stats on some of their ships slightly, so hopefully they won't be too bad :P
well i hope you change combat speed of the fighter wing, cuz 300 as far i remember is way TOO fast :P

but if you changed few things maybe i will further check things out ...
+ nice idea about player storage/omnifactory ;) but what will happen if player intercept those ships ? :D
OK back to checking
PS:thx for the weekend update
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 19, 2013, 04:00:02 AM

well this is not about  Nihilic Empire size , its a vanilla problem that if ship is BIG & long (or wide) the AI will start shooting at it but the bullets/beam wont hit the ship thats why vanilla ships are long & wide

well i hope you change combat speed of the fighter wing, cuz 300 as far i remember is way TOO fast :P

but if you changed few things maybe i will further check things out ...
+ nice idea about player storage/omnifactory ;) but what will happen if player intercept those ships ? :D
OK back to checking
PS:thx for the weekend update

Well let me know if things seem way off :) I think I only ended up tweaking some of the shield and flux values. I really like the art so fairly keen to keep them in.

Yeah if you attack and destroy the station construction fleets you'll unfortunately be without the OmniFac and/or Storage Facility :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 19, 2013, 06:34:29 AM
it's been a year now &
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/pQEjrnk.png)
[close]
as you can see Neutrino go bearserk :P
Blackrock Drive Yards can be visible too
Intersteller Federation can hand themself much
others dont have that much luck ;P

whats still enoys me it there are  small Capital fleets (1-2 ship) maybe capital should be only in big & biggest fleets ?
& maybe attack fleet should spawn slower then defence ones
i dunno, maybe i didn't have much luck so far, Nihilic Empire was doing somme issue in the system at the begining (they ruled at the center of the map with 3-5 stations) but then POW! Neutrino
will start new campaign now will check things out again :]

guess we have wait till others do their feedback :-X
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: keptin on May 19, 2013, 07:48:13 AM
I had a similar, if not more extreme result with Blackrock taking over the entire sector.  Many of the mod compilations suffer from the issue of combining mods that were never balanced or meant to be stand alone and then pitting them against each other.  It's tempting to make one's mod more powerful than others, but it definitely has to be approached differently for compilations where balance is key.

It also doesn't help that the auto-battle resolve is god awful at predicting the likely outcome.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Alex on May 19, 2013, 10:32:10 AM
While this is largely off-topic, I just wanted to mention that 1) autoresolve will be simpler and more predictable in the next release, with fleetdeployment point values playing a larger role and 2) the algorithm will be fully moddable, with the baseline implementation provided in starfarer.api.zip.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 19, 2013, 10:35:55 AM
well...maybe you can make the battle fast forward instantly in a fraction of a second but the player cant see it so the battles and fairly judged...is it possible to do that?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Psiyon on May 19, 2013, 10:36:31 AM
While this is largely off-topic, I just wanted to mention that 1) autoresolve will be simpler and more predictable in the next release, with fleetdeployment point values playing a larger role and 2) the algorithm will be fully moddable, with the baseline implementation provided in starfarer.api.zip.
Alex, in case you forgot, I just want to say that I love you.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Silver Silence on May 19, 2013, 10:58:55 AM
well...maybe you can make the battle fast forward instantly in a fraction of a second but the player cant see it so the battles and fairly judged...is it possible to do that?

The battles generally are fairly judged. Though numbers can skew it a bit and nothing replaces player skill. You might be able to solo the Hegemony Defense Fleet with 3 ships, but if you autoresolved, it's almost guarenteed annihilation because the AI generally can't pull off such a feat. It's good, but it ain't -THAT- good. And if it -WAS- that good, if it -WAS- that ruthlessly efficient......

(http://www.amortyaray.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rage-guy-happy-face-tears-of-joy.jpeg)

Of course, new players would never survive against simple Hounds and Lashers, would QQ on the forums and players like us who've played for much longer would be like this:
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/101/781/Y0UJC.png)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Alex on May 19, 2013, 11:03:12 AM
Two things: 1) sorry for derailing this thread and 2) even though it's totally my fault, please stop derailing this thread :)

@Psiyon: Gah!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 19, 2013, 02:24:57 PM
it's been a year now &
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/pQEjrnk.png)
[close]
as you can see Neutrino go bearserk :P
Blackrock Drive Yards can be visible too
Intersteller Federation can hand themself much
others dont have that much luck ;P

whats still enoys me it there are  small Capital fleets (1-2 ship) maybe capital should be only in big & biggest fleets ?
& maybe attack fleet should spawn slower then defence ones
i dunno, maybe i didn't have much luck so far, Nihilic Empire was doing somme issue in the system at the begining (they ruled at the center of the map with 3-5 stations) but then POW! Neutrino
will start new campaign now will check things out again :]

guess we have wait till others do their feedback :-X

What kind of settings did you start the game off with for that pic? I have a .5 game that has been going for a while now(on cycle 207), and I simply have not seen the same results. In my game, while the neutrino are about as powerful as the blackrock in your pic, the shadowyards are currently the largest faction, though only by a few stations. My pirate faction has recently gained a second station (poor junk pirates) and the council, hegemony, and valkerians each have 3-5 stations to call their own, and are currently just as powerful as the neutrinos. The gedune and nomads also each have a single station located in the galaxy. All others have been defeated, though the blackrock seem to have a single tiny fleet near the sun, having only just recently lost their last station to the combined might of the council and hegemony.

Whether the neutrinos are or are not a bit unbalanced in this mod, though, I think I have a bit of a solution to help keep the system balanced: balance of power. In history, whenever a single country started becoming too powerful, other countries would ally together to counter the threat against that specific power, and bring them back down to size. I suggest that the same be done in this mod, to where when a situation as seen in sony's picture occurs, all the other factions are going to start banding together and trying to stop the larger faction before it is too late. I don't know much on modding, but I'm guessing something can be made so that if one faction becomes powerful, other factions are more likely to go to war with it in groups? It ought to solve the balance problem if it can be done; the more unbalanced the faction the more enemies that faction will get.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 19, 2013, 05:24:44 PM
@UP[
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/pQEjrnk.png)
[close]
well that screen was from 0.51ver.
& after a (2'nd) new game i can tel it's different, totaly
look for yourself
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/mNiOMO6.png)
[close]
1 year pased, the same settings as last time
-35 stations
-umm... max planets (21???)
-2 or 4 asteroids belt
-everyone was invited in exerelin
on both game i choose Relic's
so i belive station layout is verry important in this mod & can bring major (un)balance to the game
(umm... & did my faction doesn't look POOR to you ? cuz im sweating my butt off to maintain my faction)
ow & i saw strange thing, when faction out of the system attack fleet (or something) spawns their number is random, 1-4 is it suppose be like these ?

PS: Zep, remember the size issue i was writing earlier ?
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/aoecWof.png)
[close]
the smaller units are totally useless , well their efectivness can drop below 1/2
BUT there isn't that BIG problem i was thought it will be wit the nillic empire so stay cool
cant rly tell how i feel about their fighter "anti wing' or something, speed 300 price 120 cant rly tell , i'll bet they are nightmare to the solid weapon point def weapons
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 20, 2013, 02:49:43 AM
While this is largely off-topic, I just wanted to mention that 1) autoresolve will be simpler and more predictable in the next release, with fleetdeployment point values playing a larger role and 2) the algorithm will be fully moddable, with the baseline implementation provided in starfarer.api.zip.

Woohoo! Sounds awesome :) (thread derailment seems like a very small price to pay for such news :P)

--- snip ---
Whether the neutrinos are or are not a bit unbalanced in this mod, though, I think I have a bit of a solution to help keep the system balanced: balance of power. In history, whenever a single country started becoming too powerful, other countries would ally together to counter the threat against that specific power, and bring them back down to size. I suggest that the same be done in this mod, to where when a situation as seen in sony's picture occurs, all the other factions are going to start banding together and trying to stop the larger faction before it is too late. I don't know much on modding, but I'm guessing something can be made so that if one faction becomes powerful, other factions are more likely to go to war with it in groups? It ought to solve the balance problem if it can be done; the more unbalanced the faction the more enemies that faction will get.

The first part of this idea is implemented: factions inherently dislike a faction who is the most powerful. The second part (of this inherent dislike causing alliances against the lead) is not really implemented and is on the drawing board (along with a number of other things in the diplomacy space) :)

--- snip ---
so i belive station layout is verry important in this mod & can bring major (un)balance to the game
 --- snip ---
ow & i saw strange thing, when faction out of the system attack fleet (or something) spawns their number is random, 1-4 is it suppose be like these ?
 --- snip ---
cant rly tell how i feel about their fighter "anti wing' or something, speed 300 price 120 cant rly tell , i'll bet they are nightmare to the solid weapon point def weapons

Yeah station layout and wars/alliance have a bigger effect than the auto-resolve, which is why I'm not TOO worries about factions being slightly imbalanced.

Yeah respawn fleets will differ in number (1 - 4) depending on resources an empire has.

Yikes, I meant to change this to a more meaningful number, 120 is way too low. It will only affect the player though (providing a super cheap fighter wing). I'll change this for the next version.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 20, 2013, 09:19:15 AM
dude...the player has a way to little advantage...the fleets are almost never big while everyone else explodes with massive defense fleets while mine takes their time building up with little to no cargo ships.....even worse is i have to pay for everything so by the time i do get some money its too late..my places are being invaded and screwed....i cant do anything since i have no money or manpower and all i can do is unfairly get screwed over...there has to be something the player can get...the wages are scraps at best
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 20, 2013, 12:35:34 PM
Lopunny, try going after the freighters of an enemy when your fleet is small and you end up at war. Not only will it get you the needed money to buy yourself a fleet, but it will cause the enemy to end up with less resources and thus less powerful fleets to send at you, which is usually enough to keep you alive. The atlas station attack fleets are also good targets to bring down for easy money.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 20, 2013, 01:02:20 PM
i do that but while thats happening everyone else is buffed super fast...im still too weak...wages need to be higher
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 20, 2013, 01:22:49 PM
Lopunny, the defense fleets are supposed to be extra tough, just like the hegemony defense fleet is extra tough in the vanilla game. I don't think you are supposed to quickly be able to reach their size, you should be fine on wages and tasty freighters to build yourself a medium fleet capable of defeating some enemies, extra wages shouldn't be necessary. Heck, I often find myself with more money than I know what to do with when I'm playing, though I do tend to play as the inexpensive pirates for the challenge. Your faction grows and is just as powerful as the other factions, the only difference between your faction and another faction is that each faction has different ships and your faction has you to help fight. Some factions might be easier to play as, such as the council in comparison to the pirate faction, but overall, your faction is buffed just as much as any enemy faction. The more stations a faction has, the more fleets it can spawn. You are the advantage your faction has over any other faction.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 20, 2013, 01:48:08 PM
yes but ive figured out the problem...the fleets the bases spawn are random...theres no size or economy thing as far as i see and they dont gradually get bigger ones via supply...some just pop out giant fleets like a production line...it happened to my fleet and its kinda unfair...at least make so it doesnt just jump up to giant fleets...some get them the moment they set a base up and its stupid....this game seems very good...but im stressing out trying to enjoy it :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 20, 2013, 02:03:22 PM
Actually, unless the code isn't working the way it seems to be supposed to, fleet composition is entirely based on the supplies and crew that are inside of a station. Each station basically looks at how much supplies and crew it has, and then builds the biggest fleet it can with how much supplies and crew it has, subtracting those supplies and crew. When a station has just gotten a supply shipment from freighters, it is usually able to make a larger fleet, while a station that hasn't obtained a supply fleet in a while is left making rather small fleets. A faction that has gone a while without any warfare is usually able to build several large fleets before it runs low on supplies because of the supplies that it has been able to save up. I believe that the fleets don't get gradually bigger with supplies, but gradually smaller as the supplies run out, until the station receives another shipment at which time it is able to make larger fleets again.

Also, another suggestion to maybe help you with the early game before you can get a fleet, you are able to buy supplies and crew (and on very rare occasions, a weapon or two) from stations that do not belong to you and sell them to your own station to help fuel its fleet production. This will result in a net loss of money for you, but it will allow your station to build more fleets that it wouldn't otherwise be able to make, which can sometimes be especially useful.


Oh, and another suggestion for the mod, how about factions which have a station near an asteroid belt be able to send out lightly defended mining fleets for an extra supply boost.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 20, 2013, 02:55:40 PM
yes but ive figured out the problem...the fleets the bases spawn are random...theres no size or economy thing as far as i see and they dont gradually get bigger ones via supply...some just pop out giant fleets like a production line...it happened to my fleet and its kinda unfair...at least make so it doesnt just jump up to giant fleets...some get them the moment they set a base up and its stupid....this game seems very good...but im stressing out trying to enjoy it :(

Actually, unless the code isn't working the way it seems to be supposed to, fleet composition is entirely based on the supplies and crew that are inside of a station. Each station basically looks at how much supplies and crew it has, and then builds the biggest fleet it can with how much supplies and crew it has, subtracting those supplies and crew. When a station has just gotten a supply shipment from freighters, it is usually able to make a larger fleet, while a station that hasn't obtained a supply fleet in a while is left making rather small fleets. A faction that has gone a while without any warfare is usually able to build several large fleets before it runs low on supplies because of the supplies that it has been able to save up. I believe that the fleets don't get gradually bigger with supplies, but gradually smaller as the supplies run out, until the station receives another shipment at which time it is able to make larger fleets again.

Also, another suggestion to maybe help you with the early game before you can get a fleet, you are able to buy supplies and crew (and on very rare occasions, a weapon or two) from stations that do not belong to you and sell them to your own station to help fuel its fleet production. This will result in a net loss of money for you, but it will allow your station to build more fleets that it wouldn't otherwise be able to make, which can sometimes be especially useful.


Oh, and another suggestion for the mod, how about factions which have a station near an asteroid belt be able to send out lightly defended mining fleets for an extra supply boost.

sirboomalot is spot on, and stations also generate a small amount of resources themselves (with a bonus to one resource depending on whether they are orbiting a gas planet, normal planet or moon).

Asteroid mining fleets (and gas mining fleets) are on my todo list :) and they'll eventually (mostly) replace the 'station generates resources' mechanic. This will make certain spots in the system more desirable than others, which should affect diplomacy and war target priorities... lots to do! :P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 21, 2013, 03:09:40 AM
yes but hes super flawed in on thing...THE SUPPLY FLEET ENGAGE BATTLE PURPOSELY...i dont understand but everything including the station attackers goes after people.....why..if i were a cargo guy id leave everything alone...i would even blend into space id be so scared but these people are bold enough to battle people...dying and losing precious supplies and time...i wonder if they even have a purpose to live...i barely see supplies hit the stations
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Silver Silence on May 21, 2013, 03:51:15 AM
That's just something with the convoys. If they happen to pass by a fleet that they can beat, they'll most likely try and force an engagement, and if they blunder into the equivelent of a faction's System Defense Fleet, they'll try and haul ass outta there. One could make the convoys more heavily armed, which would better their chances in engagements, but would also make them more likely to engage in the first place.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 21, 2013, 06:12:21 AM
change their nature...make them scared to engage
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Upgradecap on May 21, 2013, 06:40:06 AM
Scheisse, this wasn't the simplest, integrating this code. Oh well, i'll do it.... Somehow else ;)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 21, 2013, 08:40:17 AM
Ok who invited nihil into this mod...there so unblanced..there fighters are too fast and too armed...and dont get me started on their giant ass ship which just gives armies the finger...whos idea was this >:(? god...everything was fine until they came and destroyed all my fleets with one giant ship...who even considers that to be a good idea anyways...that not even creative v.v
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Talkie Toaster on May 21, 2013, 10:09:59 AM
Ok who invited nihil into this mod...there so unblanced..there fighters are too fast and too armed...and dont get me started on their giant ass ship which just gives armies the finger...whos idea was this >:(? god...everything was fine until they came and destroyed all my fleets with one giant ship...who even considers that to be a good idea anyways...that not even creative v.v
If you don't like them, it's trivial to remove them. Just calm down.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 21, 2013, 10:34:49 AM
no i wont calm down...there cheap and noone likes them....why not thule mod..they just updated...replace nihil and get them out of here..i was doing fine until therew huge ship cam and ruined the game by pounding all my fleets to rubble and now...even worse for some reason 80% of the galaxy is allied against me despite the fact im not even close to the most powerful team and this happens every single time i play the mod...how do you guys even play this mod?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Sproginator on May 21, 2013, 10:49:46 AM
Chill bro xD, that is still someone's work your completely hating on :/, if you don't like it, just give a constructive review, not go batshit crazy lol
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 21, 2013, 11:00:51 AM
your would have to use the worlds remaining budget to fix that mod...its just another mod with overpowered things to fill an ego...i couldnt imagine making a team more powerful than other teams...this entire mod makes no sense...im just going to go back to uomoz...at least i dont get jumped to death in that or cheap teams..
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Sproginator on May 21, 2013, 11:19:36 AM
An ego? Worlds budget? Where are you getting these facts from? :/
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Upgradecap on May 21, 2013, 11:21:54 AM
your would have to use the worlds remaining budget to fix that mod...its just another mod with overpowered things to fill an ego...i couldnt imagine making a team more powerful than other teams...this entire mod makes no sense...im just going to go back to uomoz...at least i dont get jumped to death in that or cheap teams..

Lolwut? You are hating on the mod itself because you are..... Bad at it? Hint - don't blame others for your failures.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Hyph_K31 on May 21, 2013, 11:38:09 AM
Guys, let's just calm it down here a bit. :(

And anyway AFAIK, the mod in question here is quite old and hasn't seen an update in a while. I'm could be wrong though, so take a look for yourselves.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Upgradecap on May 21, 2013, 11:45:31 AM
That be true, hyph, but still - even though it might be unbalanced (which it is, no doubt - it's exactly supposed to be that, to provide a rather extreme challenge) it's a TRIVIAL thing to remove them.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 21, 2013, 01:08:21 PM
but they ruin the game...you cant fight an army by yourself...the thule legacy mod is so much better...why not replace nihil...i mean come on...people were worried the moment you said you wanted to add them...thule is balanced...fun and fair.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Sproginator on May 21, 2013, 01:11:25 PM
It's a matter of personal choice I spose
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: kupan9 on May 21, 2013, 03:09:47 PM
There are directions for both adding and removing factions as you desire. As far as I am concerned, this mod is about the SYSTEM not the Factions. The added factions are just a service to make it convenient to play with a larger faction set. If you don't like a faction, please don't derail the thread, insult the mod maker, and whine. Open a text editor and delete ONE WORD! It is much faster and easier to just follow a simple TWO SENTENCE direction and delete the faction than come on here and write a much longer complaint about it and hope he changes it to exactly what you want. I don't know how the mod maker feels about this, but it gets me angry to see so much entitled whining when it is so EASY to do it yourself.

Now to something productive.

To address the "too many large fleets" issue.
I don't know what plans you have set aside for this, but it would probably be relatively easy to add some logic such as :
# Assumes Atlas' spawn independantly of attack/defense fleets #
T= Time/Number of weeks passed or some increment of days
R(x) = Random number between 0 and x
S = Supplies at the station
FF = Supply range sufficient to gen a fleet of 1-3 frigates
Rand(100) + time =
S<FF = Nothing Happens
(<15 & S>=FF) || (>15 & S<Next Tiers required S): Run fleet gen for (S/FF) - rand((S/FF)-1) times  #Runs fleet gen for fleets of 1-3 frigates a number of times between 1 and the maximum number of frigates fleets it can spawn
Etc up to system defense fleets up at the top of the range, which could do something like :
>90 & S>= System Defense Fleet Supply Cost : Run fleet gen for a System Defense Fleet + run this algorithm again immediately with a modifier of - 10 or so to encourage more smaller fleets.
                                                                                                                                                                                            #If the fleet gen is a sub just call it again and pass it the modifier.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Modifiers could also be used later to encourage larger fleets to spawn
                                                                                                                                                                                            with certaincertain system features or station effects when that is
                                                                                                                                                                                            implemented. #

This system would encourage more smaller fleets and chances of larger numbers of smaller frigate, destroyer and cruiser fleets while making more large fleets as the time increments. Given enough time you would have the ability to produce multiple System Defense Fleets given decent rolls and enough supplies. You can also call the sub again from any of the higher tiers so that it mixes in lower amounts of stuff until it runs out of supplies. Probably add that to anything higher than frigates because rolling again from the lowest possible result seems kinda silly, but would result in a more even spread of fleet types more consistently.

One of these days when I have time to do more than post an idea at a time, I should really take a look through the mod code so I can be more helpful. The main problem with that idea is that when I have the time and inclination to do something Starsector-y I end up PLAYING the mod instead of look at it's code ::).

Don't let the complains get you down Zaphide, There are plenty of people who really enjoy the mod. You have to remember there are only two types of people that will really respond to the mod thread, Those with suggestions and those with complaints. It is also often a fine line between the two. Keep it up.

Wall of Text Signing out for now.

*edit*
To clarify I don't have a problem with the fleet sizes, I like the challenge. If you implement the increased smaller fleet logic I would personally love it if it was either a creation choice or, more likely, modified by a global so it can be turned off. Just have the fleet gen be an If (Global = 1)  New fleet get; Else Old fleet gen;. But that is extra work and more things to worry about with debugging. If you make the fleet size grow like I suggest you might just make the time increment size easily found like the faction list and let us ramp it up if we want.
*/edit*
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: LostInTheWired on May 21, 2013, 04:10:57 PM
To be honest, we need the larger fleets.  Once you get to a large fleet size, you won't find the supplies to keep going without crushing a few fleets.  As far as I've found, the trade convoys are relatively useless/don't drop off enough supplies.

And the number of ships they drop off is abysmal, especially considering the fact that the station defense/attack fleets use the same pool as you do and that the ships come directly from the supply convoy fleet.  When it comes to, especially smaller ships, I don't see why the resources/prefabricated sections wouldn't be on board a freighter and then compiled when on station.  Fighters and frigates would be perfect for these extra ships, and would give you something to work with while waiting for larger ships.

What might also be considered instead is to make it so ally convoys do drop ships off to their stations.  This way, you could buy ships from your allies as well, to keep up with the heavy demand involved in the constant warfare.  The problem with this is clearing the cargo whenever you're at peace/war, as if, instead of just not letting you buy the cargo, they dump it all into space.  I have to look through the API a little bit to see if I can override what shows up in the station menus when at war, like if I can make nothing show up in the buy list or something.  The convoluted option would be to keep a separate cargo variable for each station that is written into every time a station goes from ally to peace/war and clears the station cargo, then reinstates the cargo whenever they return to ally status.  It'd work, but it's just so ass backwards, where I would like to just hide the buy/sell menu from the player entirely when approaching an enemy station.

I guess I have research to do.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Sproginator on May 21, 2013, 04:19:21 PM
I'll try and do a play through of this mod when I get a chance hehe
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 22, 2013, 04:02:42 AM
... anyway ... :P

Scheisse, this wasn't the simplest, integrating this code. Oh well, i'll do it.... Somehow else ;)

Let me know if I can clarify anything :)

--- snip ---
Now to something productive.

To address the "too many large fleets" issue.
--- snip ---

I don't really think there is a 'too many large fleets' issue (I realise you didn't raise the issue :) ). One thing that does irritate me a bit is the single capital ship fleets (or with only a small escort). I'll probably amend the method to do something about this.

To be honest, we need the larger fleets.  Once you get to a large fleet size, you won't find the supplies to keep going without crushing a few fleets.  As far as I've found, the trade convoys are relatively useless/don't drop off enough supplies.

The lonely Atlas' are fairly good for supplies.

And the number of ships they drop off is abysmal, especially considering the fact that the station defense/attack fleets use the same pool as you do and that the ships come directly from the supply convoy fleet.  When it comes to, especially smaller ships, I don't see why the resources/prefabricated sections wouldn't be on board a freighter and then compiled when on station.  Fighters and frigates would be perfect for these extra ships, and would give you something to work with while waiting for larger ships.

Hmmm it can certainly be a problem if none of your convoys are getting through. It might be worth me adding a random fighter wing/frigate/destroyer every once in a while to stations.

What might also be considered instead is to make it so ally convoys do drop ships off to their stations.  This way, you could buy ships from your allies as well, to keep up with the heavy demand involved in the constant warfare.  The problem with this is clearing the cargo whenever you're at peace/war, as if, instead of just not letting you buy the cargo, they dump it all into space.  I have to look through the API a little bit to see if I can override what shows up in the station menus when at war, like if I can make nothing show up in the buy list or something.  The convoluted option would be to keep a separate cargo variable for each station that is written into every time a station goes from ally to peace/war and clears the station cargo, then reinstates the cargo whenever they return to ally status.  It'd work, but it's just so ass backwards, where I would like to just hide the buy/sell menu from the player entirely when approaching an enemy station.

I guess I have research to do.

As far as I'm aware, the only way to do this currently is the convoluted option. Hopefully Alex implements a StationInteractionPlugin (is he still reading :P) that will allow easy control.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I will add Thule's Legacy in soon, just need to get round to it :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Decer304 on May 22, 2013, 04:14:35 AM
hey, i've had many encounters with an atlus which it didnt have enough crew to keep it combat ready, so i got an easy win and capture, is that intended to be there or not?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 22, 2013, 05:50:37 AM
hey, i've had many encounters with an atlus which it didnt have enough crew to keep it combat ready, so i got an easy win and capture, is that intended to be there or not?

Hmmm it's not intended, any chance it had been in a fight or two before you found it?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Decer304 on May 22, 2013, 05:53:24 AM
Bit of both. some were <50%, but i did also have encounters like that where the ship was full health.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 22, 2013, 06:01:26 AM
umm... what's an "atlus"  ???
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: ValkyriaL on May 22, 2013, 06:03:26 AM
The middle brother to an Atlas and Atlasis.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 22, 2013, 09:06:08 AM
it the deformed triplet of the kids...the poor soul
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Kristian on May 22, 2013, 12:24:25 PM
Nice mod :)

Is there any way to make stores sell more weapons/ships and/or buy from neutral/allied factions?

Edit: Is the faction status of the player faction entirely controlled by the player? No one has declared war on me so far. Started out with a war against Nihil and Valkyrie but a peace was suddenly declared.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 22, 2013, 01:52:38 PM
One thing I would like is for an ally to occasionally send an especially small shipment of their own ships and weapons to your station, so that you might buy and equip one or two ships that you wouldn't normally have access to before a war.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 22, 2013, 03:54:51 PM
so...can we please replace nihil with thule...how does noone else see why nihil is cheap..there ships have strong lasting shield with likewise armor...there weapons never miss...the team is way to perfect...come on..thule is the way to go and they released their update awhile ago
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Kristian on May 22, 2013, 04:08:49 PM
so...can we please replace nihil with thule...how does noone else see why nihil is cheap..there ships have strong lasting shield with likewise armor...there weapons never miss...the team is way to perfect...come on..thule is the way to go and they released their update awhile ago
Are you serious? I curbstomped Nihil when I fought them.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: ValkyriaL on May 22, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
i haven't played for a few months, but i'l try tomorrow and see if nihil is as impossible to beat as you claim they are.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 22, 2013, 06:11:09 PM
so...can we please replace nihil with thule...how does noone else see why nihil is cheap..there ships have strong lasting shield with likewise armor...there weapons never miss...the team is way to perfect...come on..thule is the way to go and they released their update awhile ago

Why don't you just follow the directions on the front page and remove them yourself, like just about everyone else has suggested? Thule is already being added in the next version of this mod from what I'm hearing, and you can remove any faction that you don't like just by editing a file. The reason why nobody is speaking out against nihil is because nihil can be removed by anybody that doesn't want it, and is a fun challenge to those who do want it.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 22, 2013, 08:20:58 PM
btw..i just tested the council(starwars) people...and i have to say..there very busted...i just used the sparrow frigate and it had infinite no cool down teleport...lots of weapons and fast speeds and had the ordanance of a destroy or even a cruiser...they need to tone it down a bit...there a bit scary in terms of balance o.o
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 22, 2013, 08:23:15 PM
Lopunny, I don't think that particular faction was made for balance...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: ValkyriaL on May 23, 2013, 12:31:08 AM
Neither Council (MrDavidoff´s Ship Addon) or nihilic empire were intended for vanilla balance, you can find them in the mod index, if you don't like them, remove them, problemo solved.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 23, 2013, 01:38:22 AM
Nice mod :)

Is there any way to make stores sell more weapons/ships and/or buy from neutral/allied factions?

Edit: Is the faction status of the player faction entirely controlled by the player? No one has declared war on me so far. Started out with a war against Nihil and Valkyrie but a peace was suddenly declared.

Thanks :)

You could edit the data\scripts\world\exerelin\OutSystemSupplyConvoySpawnPoint.java file at lines 102 + 103 and change the numbers higher.
Code
addFactionSpecificWeapons(targetCargo, 4, ExerelinData.getInstance().getPlayerFaction());
addRandomFactionShips(targetCargo, 2);

No other faction gets delivered weapons/ships at this stage.

Factions (including the players faction) will declare war/peace/ally as it suits them, but the player can certainly kick off a war with a ally or neutral faction. Factions will not like a backstabber though ... :)

btw..i just tested the council(starwars) people...and i have to say..there very busted...i just used the sparrow frigate and it had infinite no cool down teleport...lots of weapons and fast speeds and had the ordanance of a destroy or even a cruiser...they need to tone it down a bit...there a bit scary in terms of balance o.o

Yeah I must admit the Sparrow is a bit out there! :)

But in general, I don't have a problem with balance of various factions because:
1. Mostly, powerful ships cost more. For example, the fleet point cost of the Sparrow is larger than pretty much every frigate, and some destroyers. As long as that cost affects gameplay *in some way*, I don't have a problem with it as long as it is in the 'ballpark'.
2. Balance between mods is going to come and go as StarSector progresses and I don't really feel like trying to balance everything to then have to redo it later :P
3. Player piloting skill is much greater than the AI piloting, so I actually think that the AI having 'better' ships evens it out (unless the player is playing as an 'OP' faction, then...)
4. Currently, only the player can progress their captain, making their ships perform better, which is 'unfair' against the AI.

Exerelin currently uses the fleet point cost of ships to determine how many resources are used when building a fleet from a station. Ideally, I would like to use a mix of fleet point cost, ordinance points available on the ship and the base credit cost of the hull. Unfortunately, the ordinance point cost is unavailable outside combat (requires an Alex-level change) and the base credit cost can be a little misleading in some mods. Ordinance cost is probably the best indicator of sheer 'combat ability'.

We'll get there eventually, but at the moment I just want to provide an easy way for people (and myself!) to play StarSector-Exerelin with whatever factions they want. :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: FloW on May 23, 2013, 01:40:54 AM
Would it be possible to get a whole list of "non-vanilla" balanced factions that are part of this mod?
Maybe even add the list to the OP, so that new players can remove them if they want to.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 23, 2013, 01:47:16 AM
Would it be possible to get a whole list of "non-vanilla" balanced factions that are part of this mod?
Maybe even add the list to the OP, so that new players can remove them if they want to.

I'll probably wait until after the dust settles from StarSector 0.6 (soon hopefully!) before assessing as I suspect a bit of a shake up to occur... :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 23, 2013, 02:15:07 AM
..so anyone has problems with Nihilc's so far ?
cuz i dont have problem beating their  bigger fleets (with their capital) with just 3 ships
1  Intersepter, 2 Sledgehammer

Also i would like to see your fleet  Zen, & if your are able to take down Valkyrians on Neutrino fleets with it
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: FloW on May 23, 2013, 02:27:04 AM
They were a problem when they steamrolled in with 4 fleets at once at the beginning. Along with 4 Shadowyard fleets.
Could it be that Neutrino are diplomatic failures or are they just stupid?

I managed to beat them back slowly after I got my second cruiser (Blackrock in origin, Neutrino definitely knows how to get a war started), and their out-system attack fleets were gone. And now I'm pretty much steamrolling everything with a Jackhammer and Hawk MKII "Allegiance". The Nomad attack fleets punched a few holes in the Hawk, but nothing that was impossible to fix.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 23, 2013, 09:01:38 PM
wait..if they were not made for balancing...why are you adding them to this mod..isnt it your responsibility to make sure all faction follow the rules to further increase the experience for players?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Silver Silence on May 23, 2013, 09:40:41 PM
Not really. He's taken a bunch of good mods and mixed them all together. What rules are there to follow? That they don't curbstomp each other? Where's the fun in that?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Lopunny Zen on May 23, 2013, 10:11:12 PM
the fun is they all re equal on a certain level...they all have weaknesses and strengths that are balanced...they are all as powerful...there is no fun in balancing but its essential to any form of game or mod
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 23, 2013, 10:21:49 PM
I personally like the mod with the added challenge. Anybody who doesn't want the unbalanced factions can remove them, they are an fun challenge to fight for those who do want them. This particular mod wasn't made for balance, and thus I do not believe that the modder really needs to worry about balance all that much unless he wants to.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 23, 2013, 10:22:36 PM
Zen , show me your map & your current fleet if you can, cuz i'm curious

EDIT:
I changed some of the stats on some of their ships slightly, so hopefully they won't be too bad :P

as you can see Zaphide is balancing stuff but let's just say it straight , economy i solar system is the priority

+ Nihilc can be hard at the beginning but are they the only one ?
                                                                                                                        ::)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: valefore on May 24, 2013, 06:42:38 AM
Zen,

I understand your reasoning but your basis is flawed. As Zaphide said, the main content of Exerelin is its world generation and faction mechanics that provide a unique experience that the original Starsector doesn't provide on its own. The added factions are simply a favor done by Zaphide to allow players to take advantage of Exerelin with other popular mod factions, which may be cumbersome to do on your own. He was even kind enough to provide a very simple 3 second method to remove any factions that players may not like. In fact, this whole mod is a favor done by Zaphide to the Starsector community and he has absolutely no responsibility entitled to his work because its voluntary (except for maybe asking for permission for use from other modders, which he is doing very well). It's completely different from professional game makers who have to take responsibility of their product for sale.


As for the actual faction balances, I really see no huge problems. Sure, some ships are a bit stronger than others and some weapons are a little op, but that's it. It's nothing that you can't beat, because although they are strong, they all have weaknesses that can be strategically exploited. With this much content, it's impossible to keep perfect balance in the first place; Hell, the TriTachyon are pretty much op compared to hegemony in the original game anyway (like the indestructible hyperion?).

Depending on which starting faction you choose, the game may be difficult at different stages. If you really can't keep up, solve the problem yourself and remove the op faction. Demanding stuff from the modder can be rude at times.

Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: dogboy123 on May 24, 2013, 08:05:12 AM
This mod is awesome, helped me get back into Starsector.  :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: ramondarkdemon on May 24, 2013, 01:35:07 PM
Hi. I'm trying to run the mod but this error happen:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/34yvfcm.jpg)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Sproginator on May 24, 2013, 01:41:11 PM
Lopunny, Want to see an unbalanced mod? Go look at my Starraiden mod, Or check out WAR. Seeing them will make you rather displeased. If you think balancing is so important, Try it for yourself, It aint easy
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 24, 2013, 01:48:28 PM
Hi. I'm trying to run the mod but this error happen:
Spoiler
(http://i43.tinypic.com/34yvfcm.jpg)
[close]
do you have  LazyWizards LazyLib instal properly ?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: ramondarkdemon on May 24, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
Hi. I'm trying to run the mod but this error happen:
Spoiler
(http://i43.tinypic.com/34yvfcm.jpg)
[close]
do you have  LazyWizards LazyLib instal properly ?
Yes I'm installed it correctly
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: LazyWizard on May 24, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
Hi. I'm trying to run the mod but this error happen:
Spoiler
(http://i43.tinypic.com/34yvfcm.jpg)
[close]

You're not running the latest Starsector version. Decorative weapons were added in .54.1a, which you can get here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2013/01/04/starsector-0-54-1a-release/).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 24, 2013, 03:24:22 PM
Zap, check the Pirate (vanila)faction for the capital ship , cuz i'm playing as them & both your fleet is spawnet without capital (conquest i belive was the name) & it's not delivered
correct me if I'm wrong ;P
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 24, 2013, 05:49:49 PM
I think the conquest is an independent ship, the pirates have no capital ship.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 24, 2013, 05:54:29 PM
Yeah there is no pirate capital ship unfortunately :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Silver Silence on May 24, 2013, 08:42:02 PM
You could add... erm... Starfarer Extra? I think...

There's a mod out there that adds the Pirate "Parrot" class battleship. Along with more ships.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 25, 2013, 12:35:52 AM
Starfarer plus! It adds quite a few awesome ships...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 25, 2013, 01:27:53 AM
I think the conquest is an independent ship, the pirates have no capital ship.
but pirate have conquest in their fleets & in their stations in vanilla so i think it can be used
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: sirboomalot on May 25, 2013, 02:09:58 PM
It could be used, but I think I would rather see starsector plus added, the conquest follows the independent style of ship more than the pirate style...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: ValkyriaL on May 25, 2013, 03:47:55 PM
So..Nihil thinks he's the undisputed king of super capital ships??? NOT WHEN IM AROUND!! NOBODY challenges ValkyriaL in ship size! 8)

Spoiler
DIE COUNCIL!!!!!!!!(http://i.imgur.com/1pPXQfk.jpg)

[close]
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: LaughingSmirk on May 25, 2013, 03:51:00 PM
Christ Valk we know you have compensation issues but seriously making a anime sword into a ship is absolutely freekin excellent!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: FloW on May 25, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
So..Nihil thinks he's the undisputed king of super capital ships??? NOT WHEN IM AROUND!! NOBODY challenges ValkyriaL in ship size! 8)

Spoiler
DIE COUNCIL!!!!!!!!(http://i.imgur.com/1pPXQfk.jpg)

[close]

Are you trying to compensate for something?

OT: I feel like the whole "Let's send in 4 fleets at once" thing doesn't really work. At the start you wouldn't even kill a single one (maybe take out a frig or a fighter wing, but not the entire fleet), and later you can just: kill one, repair (if needed) and repeat. There's not really much in between. Maybe try "light out-sector attack fleets" and so on, up to "superheavy out-sector attack fleets" (Imagine battleships. Lots of them.).
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: theSONY on May 26, 2013, 10:08:05 AM
November 14, cycle 207 Capt'n Log:  Neutrino just declared another war  with our beloved nilic empire
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/2qjbo11.png)
[close]
Dang  :-\

question: what's the frequency of faction fleet rebelling ? 
saw only once, and it wasn't enough ;p
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Decer304 on May 26, 2013, 05:01:25 PM
I've been seeing an issue in this mod alot with the starting ships. I found that most custom faction starting ships has either too much crew or too little crew. Is this fixable, because i know that some ships has soo little crew capacity that you start off being like 200% over the limit and i by the time i get to a space station to sell them off, i blow up. Some ships, such as the valkyrie imperial class frigate has too little crew, thus having my ship start off as not enough crew, so i have to get more.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: flashydragon on May 26, 2013, 10:27:32 PM
I've been seeing an issue in this mod alot with the starting ships. I found that most custom faction starting ships has either too much crew or too little crew. Is this fixable, because i know that some ships has soo little crew capacity that you start off being like 200% over the limit and i by the time i get to a space station to sell them off, i blow up. Some ships, such as the valkyrie imperial class frigate has too little crew, thus having my ship start off as not enough crew, so i have to get more.

I've seen mods start you off with more or less crew, fuel, and supplies before.

if too much, jettison the little buggers you don't love anymore. if too little, sell that useless fuel to get on with satisfying your urge to murder those poor defenseless pirates.. :-*
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
Post by: Zaphide on May 27, 2013, 02:22:49 AM
OT: I feel like the whole "Let's send in 4 fleets at once" thing doesn't really work. At the start you wouldn't even kill a single one (maybe take out a frig or a fighter wing, but not the entire fleet), and later you can just: kill one, repair (if needed) and repeat. There's not really much in between. Maybe try "light out-sector attack fleets" and so on, up to "superheavy out-sector attack fleets" (Imagine battleships. Lots of them.).

Hmmm yeah I'll give it some thought!

November 14, cycle 207 Capt'n Log:  Neutrino just declared another war  with our beloved nilic empire
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/2qjbo11.png)
[close]
Dang  :-\

question: what's the frequency of faction fleet rebelling ? 
saw only once, and it wasn't enough ;p

Ouch... :P

Should be between 40-60 days.

I've been seeing an issue in this mod alot with the starting ships. I found that most custom faction starting ships has either too much crew or too little crew. Is this fixable, because i know that some ships has soo little crew capacity that you start off being like 200% over the limit and i by the time i get to a space station to sell them off, i blow up. Some ships, such as the valkyrie imperial class frigate has too little crew, thus having my ship start off as not enough crew, so i have to get more.

Yeah sheer laziness on my part. I haven't specified a different amount per starting ship.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on May 27, 2013, 04:48:54 AM
Update time.

Notable additions include Thule's Legacy, update to Interstellar Federation, and a number of extensions to the diplomacy system.

Code
0.52
 - Added Thules Legacy faction
 - Added a Atlas with appropriate engine color for Gedune, Blackrock, Valkyrian, Thule, Shadowyards, Antedilivian factions
 - Changed IFed Atlas to Mazerk
 - Changed names for attack/defense/patrol fleets depending on size
 - Changed periodical station resource injection to include ship/weapons for player
 - Fixed incorrect resource delivery amount on out system attack fleet
 - Fixed missing base cost value for nihil Anti fighter wing
 - Fixed rare null pointer crash on station takeover

 - Updated IFed to 1.25

 - Reduced chance of small fleets with a capital ship
 - Reduced chance of capital ships being delivered to player stations
 - Faction relationships now affected by allies of allies, enemies of allies, allies of enemies and enemies of enemies
 - Lowered relationship impacts on other factions when war/peace/alliance declared between two factions
   - The above two changes should increase the chance of alliance of factions vs alliance of other factions wars
   - It should also prolong an alliance war (even if the factions come and go from the alliance)
 - There is now a low possibility that an alliance can end and result in a war between the two previously allied factions
 - Player initiated wars now have the following consequences
   - Lowers player relationship with factions neutral to faction player attacked
   - Lowers player relationship lot with factions allied to faction player attacked
   - Raises player relationship with factions at war to faction player attacked
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: theSONY on May 27, 2013, 04:52:25 AM
download ain't working 0.52
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: valefore on May 27, 2013, 05:15:35 AM
Downloading Right now.

So coooooooooooool
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on May 27, 2013, 05:16:15 AM
download ain't working 0.52

You're too quick :P It should be working now :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: theSONY on May 27, 2013, 06:13:22 AM
You're too quick :P
that's second time I read that :-[
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Rec on May 27, 2013, 06:24:28 AM
You're too quick :P
that's second time I read that :-[
i hope that at least with "read" is better than "heard"  :D

been playing this mod a bit here and there, and so far have been enjoying the feeling of it so much, feels almost like mount and blade on space.

just a question, is it possible to add a log of some kind? often i lose track with whom im at war with, and f ind the hard way when i accidentally run into one of them giant fleets.

though i think thats somehting that would require to be hardcoded into the original game...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Sproginator on May 27, 2013, 06:27:19 AM
Perhaps a way to track a key press in campaign view would show text in the bottom left corner? surely that's possible?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: kupan9 on May 28, 2013, 04:42:52 PM
Perhaps a way to track a key press in campaign view would show text in the bottom left corner? surely that's possible?
It appears that there is a way (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) but it has some restrictions :
Spoiler
The input popup never appears/the console stops working after a while:
  • See if alt-tabbing will get you to an input popup. Sometimes the dialog doesn't get window focus (I haven't been able to track down when or why this occurs), and the console input thread is halted while a popup is present.
--------SNIP--------
Using this mod in fullscreen
The latest version of Starsector (.54.1a) added a new setting allowing undecorated windows. With this, the mod finally has what amounts to fullscreen support. You will have to modify your settings.json, but you will only have to do this once.

To use this mod in fullscreen, open starsector-core/data/config/settings.json and change "undecoratedWindow" to true. Next, untag fullscreen in the game launcher and make sure the game's resolution is set to your native desktop resolution. This should give you a fullscreen borderless window and allow the console popups to function correctly.

Note that you might have vsync issues if you are on Windows and don't have the Aero theme enabled.
And sometimes after using it you click somewhere and it 'passes through' to click on something in the background
[close]

Again, I haven't dug through any code, but if Zaphide wants to take it apart or ask to use some portion of the code directly he can probably do some interesting stuff. On the other hand, it would probably be more reasonable for him to wait until the next version, if it ever comes, and see what changes have been made before working on some huge UI work around that may be pointless if the next version supports it natively.

Feedback :

I have only had enough time to get a couple of months into one game (settings max planets, min asteroid belts, max stations, 3 other races, respawn on two months all) but it seems to be weighted in such a way as you slowly unify the entire universe against you and then get stuck there. I personally declared war against the faction I wanted to start off fighting, then about a week or so in they got an ally and I got a new enemy, a week or two after that and the last race joined in against me. Of the three I only started war against one of them. This could just be a case of random number generation being, well, random. If it isn't then I am sure someone else will speak up with similar concerns.

I like how this mod is progressing. Good work Zaphide, great mod.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: LazyWizard on May 28, 2013, 05:24:40 PM
Perhaps a way to track a key press in campaign view would show text in the bottom left corner? surely that's possible?
It appears that there is a way (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) but it has some restrictions :
Spoiler
The input popup never appears/the console stops working after a while:
  • See if alt-tabbing will get you to an input popup. Sometimes the dialog doesn't get window focus (I haven't been able to track down when or why this occurs), and the console input thread is halted while a popup is present.
--------SNIP--------
Using this mod in fullscreen
The latest version of Starsector (.54.1a) added a new setting allowing undecorated windows. With this, the mod finally has what amounts to fullscreen support. You will have to modify your settings.json, but you will only have to do this once.

To use this mod in fullscreen, open starsector-core/data/config/settings.json and change "undecoratedWindow" to true. Next, untag fullscreen in the game launcher and make sure the game's resolution is set to your native desktop resolution. This should give you a fullscreen borderless window and allow the console popups to function correctly.

Note that you might have vsync issues if you are on Windows and don't have the Aero theme enabled.
And sometimes after using it you click somewhere and it 'passes through' to click on something in the background
[close]

Again, I haven't dug through any code, but if Zaphide wants to take it apart or ask to use some portion of the code directly he can probably do some interesting stuff. On the other hand, it would probably be more reasonable for him to wait until the next version, if it ever comes, and see what changes have been made before working on some huge UI work around that may be pointless if the next version supports it natively.

Registering keyboard input is actually pretty easy; most of the problems you quoted are due to the console mod using a separate pop-up for input, and wouldn't show up if I had done things normally. ;)

The campaign currently lacks a plugin that gives a list of InputEventAPIs like the combat plugin does, so you'll have to check for keypresses using LWJGL directly. To do this, you will need to import org.lwjgl.input.Keyboard and use if (Keyboard.isKeyDown(int key)), where key would be one of the constants defined here (http://lwjgl.org/javadoc/org/lwjgl/input/Keyboard.html#field_summary).

To prevent your event from firing every single frame the key is pressed, you'll want to have a variable that is set to true when the key is first pressed and returned to false when that key is not pressed. The event should be ignored as long as this variable is true.

Here's some example code that checks if any one of three keys are down:
Code
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.LocationAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.SectorAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.SpawnPointPlugin;
import org.lwjgl.input.Keyboard;

public class CampaignKeyboardInputExamplePlugin implements SpawnPointPlugin
{
    private static final int KEY_POSITION = Keyboard.KEY_J;
    private static final int KEY_ASSAULT = Keyboard.KEY_K;
    private static final int KEY_BOMBARD = Keyboard.KEY_L;
    private static boolean keyDown = false;

    private void checkKeys()
    {
        if (!keyDown)
        {
            if (Keyboard.isKeyDown(KEY_POSITION))
            {
                keyDown = true;
                //tryPosition();
            }
            else if (Keyboard.isKeyDown(KEY_ASSAULT))
            {
                keyDown = true;
                //tryAssault();
            }
            else if (Keyboard.isKeyDown(KEY_BOMBARD))
            {
                keyDown = true;
                //tryBombard();
            }
        }
        else
        {
            if (!Keyboard.isKeyDown(KEY_POSITION)
                    && !Keyboard.isKeyDown(KEY_ASSAULT)
                    && !Keyboard.isKeyDown(KEY_BOMBARD))
            {
                keyDown = false;
            }
        }
    }
    @Override
    public void advance(SectorAPI sector, LocationAPI location)
    {
        checkKeys();
    }
}
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on May 28, 2013, 07:17:15 PM
Yeah I'll wait for StarSector 0.6 before doing any UI work, as it looks fairly promising! Actually I think 0.6 will be great for Exerelin, it should allow me to tidy up a lot of things!

As to being ganged up on, I suspect it was just (bad) luck. Did you have the most stations? The game I'm testing some stuff with it was 2v2 and then my ally betrayed me, so 2v1v1 and then other 2 allied with me (my previous ally was winning) so 3v1. The diplomacy stuff happens slowly, more of an overall direction rather than immediate results. I suspect in your game you should have some peace treaty's soon!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Sproginator on May 29, 2013, 12:05:29 AM
Just on judging from the comments, this looks quite fun :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: joey4track on May 29, 2013, 09:05:57 AM
This mod is fantastic! I am wondering, is it possible to include the trading aspect and fueling from the Fairy Empire mod? If so, then this will be the ultimate mod for Starsector!!
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on May 29, 2013, 03:19:45 PM
This mod is fantastic! I am wondering, is it possible to include the trading aspect and fueling from the Fairy Empire mod? If so, then this will be the ultimate mod for Starsector!!

I have been debating the fuel use thing for a bit, as at the moment the player is a drain on their faction by using crew, marines and supplies but not fuel. Adding a small fuel use could be good but I would probably prefer to do it so that it just reduces your travel speed (by half say) if you run out of fuel.

As for trading, I doubt I'll implement anything like that for a while. Too many other ideas :P (and I am waiting to see what StarSector 0.6 brings in terms of modding)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Sproginator on May 29, 2013, 03:22:21 PM
Hey zaphide, was wondering if you fancied taking part in the new, massive community based project I'm working on?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on May 29, 2013, 03:55:59 PM
Hey zaphide, was wondering if you fancied taking part in the new, massive community based project I'm working on?

If you want to use anything from Exerelin please feel free :) but it is unlikely that I will have any spare time sorry :(
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Sproginator on May 29, 2013, 04:31:12 PM
Hey zaphide, was wondering if you fancied taking part in the new, massive community based project I'm working on?

If you want to use anything from Exerelin please feel free :) but it is unlikely that I will have any spare time sorry :(
Okie dokie! Thanks for the permission though, I'd love to try and incorporate all of your generation scripts, the way options are done etc
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: joey4track on May 29, 2013, 06:00:38 PM
Yeah, I kinda feel without trading and fuel etc.. this game is pretty much a combat only game but I guess all that stuff will be in the full vanilla version anyway, I'm just impatient :)

My dream game would be Starsector meets Distant Worlds meets Privateer :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Silver Silence on May 29, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
My dream game would be something akin to a bastard son of Starfarer and X. But I think we're a little off topic.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Sproginator on May 30, 2013, 12:55:27 AM
I suppose, but my aim is to take the customisability and fleet management of Excerelin and combine it with the trading and bounties etc in the World War mod. Maybe add a dash of the Titan mod in terms of raw battle size :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on May 30, 2013, 02:54:30 AM
Yeah, I kinda feel without trading and fuel etc.. this game is pretty much a combat only game but I guess all that stuff will be in the full vanilla version anyway, I'm just impatient :)

My dream game would be Starsector meets Distant Worlds meets Privateer :D

For me, StarSector (0.54) + Distant Worlds (empire building/diplomacy/research) + Escape Velocity(exploration/trade) :) (also add a dash of Drox Operative randomisation in there too)

Hopefully StarSector 1.0 will have most of the other two and then my dream game will be StarSector :D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: theSONY on June 01, 2013, 04:28:46 AM
Zaph' check the neutrino out-system supply convoy if the spawning rate ain't to big
i dunno what triggers the out-system supplay to spawn (numbers of the stations?)
but i see them really ofthen
in one week i smash it like 3 or 4 fleets like that (to stop their growth ;P) but i can count at least 4 more on the map
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 01, 2013, 07:03:44 AM
Zaph' check the neutrino out-system supply convoy if the spawning rate ain't to big
i dunno what triggers the out-system supplay to spawn (numbers of the stations?)
but i see them really ofthen
in one week i smash it like 3 or 4 fleets like that (to stop their growth ;P) but i can count at least 4 more on the map


Yeah there is a max of one per station, and they are all on separate timers. There are a couple of other checks done but the spawn timer is the same for all factions. Anyways, I'll have a look. I've changed quite a bit of that stuff for the next version, so there will be less station supply convoys anyway.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: theSONY on June 01, 2013, 08:15:26 AM
ow, ok , then i must count precisely the numbers of their station & compare to the numbers of the out-system supply convoy
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: joey4track on June 02, 2013, 12:53:47 PM
Hey everyone, I just started a let's play of this mod because I haven't seen any vids on youtube featuring it. I am just starting my channel so go easy on me :P

I am still somewhat a noob in Starsector, I just started playing a week ago but I have logged quite a lot of hours so I am not a total distaster but if anyone has any tips etc. I'm all ears!

Here is the link to the first ep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DTWxvKH28s
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Reshy on June 02, 2013, 02:35:12 PM
The game seems to crash when minimized with the mod working, attempting to reopen it results in a small black box in the top left.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 02, 2013, 05:43:51 PM
Hey everyone, I just started a let's play of this mod because I haven't seen any vids on youtube featuring it. I am just starting my channel so go easy on me :P

I am still somewhat a noob in Starsector, I just started playing a week ago but I have logged quite a lot of hours so I am not a total distaster but if anyone has any tips etc. I'm all ears!

Here is the link to the first ep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DTWxvKH28s

Awesome! Had a watch and can say I've added other faction ships/weapons to player stations. Should result in 10-20% other factions stuff in your stations. Next version (soon).

The game seems to crash when minimized with the mod working, attempting to reopen it results in a small black box in the top left.


Hmm I haven't had this happen to me (although I haven't played it on a PC since 0.4ish). Does it happen even without the mod? I can't think why any of the Exerelin code would cause this...
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: zaszella on June 02, 2013, 05:45:34 PM
I have problem.
Everyone can conquer a abandoned station.  :Dyes
I can conquer a AI's station. :Dyes
AI can conquer a AI's station. :Dyes
AI can't conquer my station. ???What?
They fly around and around,and game system tell me they board my station again and again.But the station still belong to me.Why?
Is something wrong in InSystemStationAttackShipSpawnPoint.java and OutSystemStationAttackFleet.java ?
because

   private Script createTestTargetScript() {
               ........................................................................
              Global.getSector().addMessage.............................(others board my station)
               8)>there is nothing<
             }


   private Script createArrivedScript() {
             ..........................................................................
             Global.getSector().addMessage..............................(I/someone board others station)
              8) >>>>System.out.println.................            
   >>>>String originalOwningFactionId = ExerelinUtils.getStationOwnerFactionId(theTarget);
              >>>>theTarget.setFaction(theFaction);
   >>>>theTarget.getCargo().clear();
   >>>>if(theFaction.equalsIgnoreCase("player"))
   >>>>theTarget.getCargo().setFreeTransfer(ExerelinData.getInstance().playerOwnedStationFreeTransfer);
   >>>>else
   >>>>theTarget.getCargo().setFreeTransfer(false);

   >>>>// Update relationship
   >>>>if(!originalOwningFactionId.equalsIgnoreCase("abandoned"))
   >>>>ExerelinData.getInstance().diplomacyManager.updateRelationshipOnEvent(originalOwningFactionId, theFaction, "LostStation");
              }
Is these script controls "conquer stations"?
Or I just do something wrong ?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: sirboomalot on June 02, 2013, 05:49:13 PM
It takes the attack fleets time to conquer a station, it is not instant. Whenever a station attack fleet reaches a station, it will go to it, fly around it for a while, and THEN capture it. This is for both AI against AI and AI against the player. The "your station is being boarded" warning is telling you that a fleet has started flying around your station. You usually still have time to stop it.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: zaszella on June 02, 2013, 05:53:00 PM
It takes the attack fleets time to conquer a station, it is not instant. Whenever a station attack fleet reaches a station, it will go to it, fly around it for a while, and THEN capture it. This is for both AI against AI and AI against the player. The "your station is being boarded" warning is telling you that a fleet has started flying around your station. You usually still have time to stop it.

Thank you for reslove my questions.
 ;D
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 02, 2013, 06:06:46 PM
It takes the attack fleets time to conquer a station, it is not instant. Whenever a station attack fleet reaches a station, it will go to it, fly around it for a while, and THEN capture it. This is for both AI against AI and AI against the player. The "your station is being boarded" warning is telling you that a fleet has started flying around your station. You usually still have time to stop it.

Thank you for reslove my questions.
 ;D

In the next version attack ships will just sit on top of the station when boarding, making it a little more obvious what's going on :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: joey4track on June 02, 2013, 06:09:55 PM
Awesome! Had a watch and can say I've added other faction ships/weapons to player stations. Should result in 10-20% other factions stuff in your stations. Next version (soon).

Nice! Cool, I like that idea. Have you thought about adding in maybe an independant sort of black market station that can sell things from other factions at inflated prices?? That would also maybe combat the extra credits you end up with too.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: sirboomalot on June 02, 2013, 06:16:13 PM
Awesome! Had a watch and can say I've added other faction ships/weapons to player stations. Should result in 10-20% other factions stuff in your stations. Next version (soon).

Nice! Cool, I like that idea. Have you thought about adding in maybe an independant sort of black market station that can sell things from other factions at inflated prices?? That would also maybe combat the extra credits you end up with too.

Now THAT might be something to add! You could have it not stock all that many weapons or ships at any one time, but completely update its stock often so that whenever the player has the time to go and check it, they are sure to see something different which they might want to buy.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: NITROtbomb on June 02, 2013, 06:19:57 PM
+1 for this idea ^^^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: joey4track on June 02, 2013, 06:26:16 PM
Yeah, that would great! A very small amount of totally random, maybe rotating (bi-)monthly items that are 2-3 times more expensive than usual and it would be a cool little goodie bag to check out when you got the time and the cash. A random ship here and there would be cool too. Oooh maybe every once and awhile you will get a ship that is a different variant and outfitted, like someone just sold their ship with the weapons included?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: sirboomalot on June 02, 2013, 06:29:51 PM
The variant thing might be a bit difficult, someone would have to make each variant themselves.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 02, 2013, 07:10:17 PM
Awesome! Had a watch and can say I've added other faction ships/weapons to player stations. Should result in 10-20% other factions stuff in your stations. Next version (soon).

Nice! Cool, I like that idea. Have you thought about adding in maybe an independant sort of black market station that can sell things from other factions at inflated prices?? That would also maybe combat the extra credits you end up with too.

Yeah but I'm not sure how to do the inflate price bit. I'll look into it and see if I can come up with something!

For the time being, I the next version ships and weapons in stations will rotate if they get above a certain number, which should mean each time you visit there's different stuff and maybe other factions ships/weapons.

As for the full setup variants I could certainly just use the variants already defined (I actually already have some code to do this). But yeah, main issue is the pricing. Ideally I want the player to mainly use their factions ships with whichever other ships they manage to get hold of. So I feel the price would need to be inflated to make you really want that other ship :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Reshy on June 02, 2013, 07:21:40 PM
Why not let us buy from factions we're allied with?


Also there needs to be a way to check the current alliances so we know who to attack and who's friendly.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: joey4track on June 02, 2013, 07:25:14 PM
Agreed. I think the inflated price would be key and also keeping in line with the rest of the mod. At first I didn't like how you couldn't buy anyone elses stuff after playing other TC mods where you have this massive arsenal at your disposal but now I think it's really awesome because all that cool stuff is still out there but you get to discover it and work for it. That my friend, is good fun and rewarding gameplay ;)

Perhaps Sadlywish, the coder for the Fairy Empire mod would have some insight on how to make it happen. There is a simple but functional little trade system in that mod where certain goods have differnt prices in different stations.

EDIT: That's a cool idea too about being able to buy from your allies. It might not be too OP because in my playthrough right now, I am at war with three factions and allied with none  :-\
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Reshy on June 02, 2013, 08:24:41 PM
Quote
41741 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  - Setting mission                                                                        1      0.06s    100.00%
41741 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Created preview                                                                      1      0.03s     56.14%
41741 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Updating ORBAT widget                                                                1      0.02s     33.33%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -     Updating fleets                                                                    1      0.02s     33.33%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -       Adding ships to fleet widget                                                     2      0.02s     31.58%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Adding tooltip                                                                10      0.01s     19.30%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Adding member icon                                                            10      0.01s     12.28%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -           Creating FMIcon                                                             10      0.00s      7.02%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -           Other                                                                        -      0.00s      5.26%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -           Sorting members                                                             10      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Setting icon params                                                           10      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Fetching button                                                               10      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Other                                                                          -      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -       Other                                                                            -      0.00s      1.75%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -     Other                                                                              -      0.00s      0.00%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Text & typer                                                                         1      0.00s      8.77%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Updating objectives widget                                                           1      0.00s      1.75%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Updating flagship                                                                    1      0.00s      0.00%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Other                                                                                -      0.00s      0.00%
41744 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)


Error that occurs sometimes in-game or in the start menu.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: LostInTheWired on June 03, 2013, 12:23:44 AM
Why not let us buy from factions we're allied with?

I've actually already talked about this myself and I've done a tiny bit of work on it.  You see, the problem is that those stations are never loaded with cargo in the first place.  If you do start allowing non-player stations to take cargo, they can buy from them no matter the hostility level.

The best solution I've come up with is to give each station a second cargo variable, one where, when not allied, the station dump their cargo information into it then clear their cargo.  Then, when allied, they can reinstate their cargo using this second variable.  It's just work I haven't been able to do much work on, sadly.  My time has just been dominated by my other mods and work and ect.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 12:49:44 AM
Quote
41741 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  - Setting mission                                                                        1      0.06s    100.00%
41741 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Created preview                                                                      1      0.03s     56.14%
41741 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Updating ORBAT widget                                                                1      0.02s     33.33%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -     Updating fleets                                                                    1      0.02s     33.33%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -       Adding ships to fleet widget                                                     2      0.02s     31.58%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Adding tooltip                                                                10      0.01s     19.30%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Adding member icon                                                            10      0.01s     12.28%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -           Creating FMIcon                                                             10      0.00s      7.02%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -           Other                                                                        -      0.00s      5.26%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -           Sorting members                                                             10      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Setting icon params                                                           10      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Fetching button                                                               10      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -         Other                                                                          -      0.00s      0.00%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -       Other                                                                            -      0.00s      1.75%
41742 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -     Other                                                                              -      0.00s      0.00%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Text & typer                                                                         1      0.00s      8.77%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Updating objectives widget                                                           1      0.00s      1.75%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Updating flagship                                                                    1      0.00s      0.00%
41743 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  -   Other                                                                                -      0.00s      0.00%
41744 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [variant id] not found!
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.Ô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)


Error that occurs sometimes in-game or in the start menu.

Fixed in the next version :) silly mistake by me...

Why not let us buy from factions we're allied with?

I've actually already talked about this myself and I've done a tiny bit of work on it.  You see, the problem is that those stations are never loaded with cargo in the first place.  If you do start allowing non-player stations to take cargo, they can buy from them no matter the hostility level.

The best solution I've come up with is to give each station a second cargo variable, one where, when not allied, the station dump their cargo information into it then clear their cargo.  Then, when allied, they can reinstate their cargo using this second variable.  It's just work I haven't been able to do much work on, sadly.  My time has just been dominated by my other mods and work and ect.

Well I've done a lot of work on the station stuff for the next version and have implemented a kind of station extension wrapper class where I store extra things about each station. Sounds like a good place for a second cargo variable :)
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 03, 2013, 01:27:19 AM
I think you are missing a weapon or 2 from my mod, I cannot find any wraith class missiles nor any storm lancers, what version did i give you?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 01:58:07 AM
I think you are missing a weapon or 2 from my mod, I cannot find any wraith class missiles nor any storm lancers, what version did i give you?

Looks like it. Here is the full list for the faction:
Code
                                        "ether_driver",
"irpdburst",
"irpdcannon",
"quadheavymg",
"lightflak",
"lrflak",
"heavyneedler",
"lightneedler",
"heavylancer",
"lightlancer",
"hephag",
"gauss",
"ibcm",
"lightdualmg",
"scorpionpod",
"scorpion",
"sabotpod",
"sabot",
"pilum",
"antiproton_laser",
"lightflak",
"lrflak",
"irpdburst",
"irpdcannon",

I jsut grabbed the latest version from your thread. I might need to upgrade them?
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 03, 2013, 02:16:06 AM
Could give you the dev, it pretty much finished and waiting for further changes in the coming 0.6, there is still some funnies in there however, non complete ships and weapons that aren't used in the campaign and some stuff i made for l0lz, but i'm pretty sure there should be wraiths and all lancers in 1.0.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 02:53:05 AM
Could give you the dev, it pretty much finished and waiting for further changes in the coming 0.6, there is still some funnies in there however, non complete ships and weapons that aren't used in the campaign and some stuff i made for l0lz, but i'm pretty sure there should be wraiths and all lancers in 1.0.

I have added the wraithe and storm lancer for next version, so they should be delivered to stations now.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 05:47:56 AM
And here it is: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.53.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.53.zip)

There has been a LOT of changes 'under the hood' to extend the station/fleet/diplomacy structures to support some of the new features (and provide more of a foundation for further new features) so in spite of my testing there may be a few niggly bugs. Please let me know if you notice anything.

Notables include a few new system events, new traders that distribute a few random ships/weapons from other factions and cleaned up a number of loose ends.

Full changes:
Code
0.53
 - Added possibility of out system reinforcement fleets for non-leading factions
   - Attack a random enemy station
 - Added possibility of a station explosion destroying resources/weapons/ships and causing a loss in efficiency for a time period
   - Remote possibility of a catastrophic accident causing station to be abandoned
 - Added possibility of a station seceding from a faction to another faction
   - Currently only implemented for factions not present in Exerelin but will be expanded
 - Added Trade Guild Traders
   - Go from station to station and trade resources
   - Will trade to player stations ships/weapons from previous stations faction

 - Changed station names to be unique
 - Changed player to actually be their chosen faction (rather than appear as Player independent Attack Fleet it will now appear as Independent Attack Fleet)
   - Players faction fleets/stations now have appropriate faction colour
   - On respawn after a total defeat, player now starts from one of their stations
   - On respawn after a total defeat, player starts with a frigate from their faction
   - On start or respawn player fleet will now start with appropriate crew/supplies/fuel levels
 - Changed station attack fleets to hover over station they are attacking rather than fly around
   - Changed boarding timer to be different each time
 - Changed rebel fleet insurrection numbers to base off system ownership level
 - Changed neutral colour from grey to invisible (for Omnifactory and Storage)
 
- If ships/weapons are being added to a station over 25/30 it will now remove some weapons
   - Should result in a cycle of ships/weapons through stations
 - Patrol fleets now help defend own factions stations under attack
   - Also will help defend allied stations under attack
 - In System Supply Fleets prioritise own stations under attack
   - Also will help allied stations under attack

 - Further reduced likelihood of small fleets (< 40fp) with a lone capital ship in them

 - Fixed "Varient Id of [Varient ID] not found" error (my silly error)
 - Fixed missing wraith and storm lancer for Valkyrian
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 09:41:01 AM
Oh snap! Nice thing to wake up to. Do I need to start a new game for this update? Sorry if this has been mentioned before I'm just in the middle of my let's play and don't want to start over if I don't have to(even though I am about to die anyway :P)
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Silver Silence on June 03, 2013, 09:49:54 AM
If features have only been added and existing code hasn't been tweaked, it should be fine. New ships and weapons and the like will slowly begin to appear, fleets that have been overhauled stay as they are, but new fleets of the same type will be according to the new listings.


EDIT:
Fugg it...*downloads to try Exerelin out*
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 03, 2013, 10:17:16 AM
my faction's stations sell other factions weapons and ships, i presume this is not intended? :|
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 10:44:13 AM
my faction's stations sell other factions weapons and ships, i presume this is not intended? :|

I think it is actually. I think what happens is a trade fleet goes from station to station buying from one and selling to another to give a little variety. If I'm not mistaken..
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 02:23:22 PM
Why not let us buy from factions we're allied with?

Also there needs to be a way to check the current alliances so we know who to attack and who's friendly.

I want to promote mainly using your own factions ships, with a few others here and there. I think the best solution is either what I have just added (trader will trade a small number of other factions ships/weapons with your stations) and/or the expensive black market idea for fully fitted out ships.

Yeah a diplomacy display will be the first thing I build when StarSector 0.6 comes out (as it should have support for custom info panels etc. in the game).

Oh snap! Nice thing to wake up to. Do I need to start a new game for this update? Sorry if this has been mentioned before I'm just in the middle of my let's play and don't want to start over if I don't have to(even though I am about to die anyway :P)

Sorry but I think you would have to start a new game. Way too much stuff has changed underneath :)

my faction's stations sell other factions weapons and ships, i presume this is not intended? :|

I think it is actually. I think what happens is a trade fleet goes from station to station buying from one and selling to another to give a little variety. If I'm not mistaken..

Yeah you should see a little variety. The ships/weapons should also come and go from the station, so there should be different things there each time a supply convoy (your stuff), a trader (potentially other factions stuff) or a station resource injection happens (your stuff).
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 02:52:15 PM
Ok well new game it is.. I know a lot more now than I did for episode one so hopefully I will do much better in the update.

About the diplomatic screen- I always wondered why there isn't a message log screen. Isn't this something that will need to be implemented in vanilla anyway? Many times an important message will come up a split second before I dock into a station and then the message is gone forever. Surely this will addressed in the vanilla game, yeah?
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 03:04:41 PM
Ok well new game it is.. I know a lot more now than I did for episode one so hopefully I will do much better in the update.

About the diplomatic screen- I always wondered why there isn't a message log screen. Isn't this something that will need to be implemented in vanilla anyway? Many times an important message will come up a split second before I dock into a station and then the message is gone forever. Surely this will addressed in the vanilla game, yeah?

I suspect so, but if not for StarSector 0.6 I could always build a message log for the Exerelin-specific messages (a System News Feed or some such). I actually usually play windowed (on Mac) with the console window open as Exerelin writes most of it's important events to the log file. I'm not sure if you can play the game with the console open on PC?
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 03:22:08 PM
Hmm, haven't really messed around with the console. I'm not working with the biggest monitor and usually play in fullscreen but that info is good to know for sure.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 04:15:48 PM
Ok, not really sure if anyone had a chance to test the update yet but in my first attempt I seemed to have run into a lot of bugs which ended up in a crash eventually. I did record it but the file I think may be corrupted so I don't know if I can upload it. But let's see...

Some of these may not be bugs but I noticed my first attack station that went out from my first captured station landed on an abandoned station, hovered there for quite sometime but never took it over. There were no enemies in sight and I wondered why it just took off for another station. It did eventually end up taking over the next station it came across.

I know there are supposed to be no borders for the Omnifactory and Storage facilities but there were no borders around any stations regardless of who owned them. There were also no borders around some random fleets as well.

As soon as I got into my first battle immediately when going into the combat mode the entire background was all white and I couldn't even see my weapon arcs, I couldn't tell if my shields were up and you couldn't even see the bullets flying around. My enemy retreated and when it transitioned back into campaign mode the background again was all white and then it crashed. Something similar happened during episode 4 for my last playthrough, you can see it happens at around the 16 minute mark in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q56CGuo5IJE

That error occured with version 52 but everything else I mentioned was with 53.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Reshy on June 03, 2013, 05:01:57 PM
I don't know if this was fixed but the Peacemaker assault gun for the Interstellar Federation is missing as a random weapon.


Also will there be the ability to purchase ally ships as if they were your own?
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 05:04:06 PM
The attack ship moving on can happen if it's home station reassigns targets, which can happen if distances change between the home station and the station it's fleets are attacking. Perhaps I should add a margin for error so that it doesn't just change its mind when the distance changes slightly.

There have always been no borders for stations. They are only set on load and so update when you save and load a game. If you don't load and Dave every station will have no borders :)

I suspect the fleets that had no borders were the station construction fleets for the omnifactory and the storage station, as they belong to the neutrals who now have a hidden border.

Hmm the crash I think is an out of memory error? Not sure tho...

Thanks for the feedback :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 05:12:30 PM
Ah yes, I figured some weren't bugs and the borderless fleets I remember were neutrals. Hrmm I always noticed stations with borders in every game I have played?? But about the white backgrounds? That was the biggest game breaking bug. I can't fight if I can't see.. :-[  No one else has experienced this? Maybe it is a vanilla issue?
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Reshy on June 03, 2013, 05:41:24 PM
The attack ship moving on can happen if it's home station reassigns targets, which can happen if distances change between the home station and the station it's fleets are attacking. Perhaps I should add a margin for error so that it doesn't just change its mind when the distance changes slightly.

There have always been no borders for stations. They are only set on load and so update when you save and load a game. If you don't load and Dave every station will have no borders :)

I suspect the fleets that had no borders were the station construction fleets for the omnifactory and the storage station, as they belong to the neutrals who now have a hidden border.

Hmm the crash I think is an out of memory error? Not sure tho...

Thanks for the feedback :)


The game randomly exits without an error log when loading the game, when loading the campaign, or when starting a battle on occasion.  Furthermore when you minimize the game and bring it back up it turns into a black square in the top left of the screen and produces a strobe effect.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 03, 2013, 06:04:43 PM
Ah yes, I figured some weren't bugs and the borderless fleets I remember were neutrals. Hrmm I always noticed stations with borders in every game I have played?? But about the white backgrounds? That was the biggest game breaking bug. I can't fight if I can't see.. :-[  No one else has experienced this? Maybe it is a vanilla issue?

Yeah it has come up in the past and I think Alex has fixed it for StarSector 0.6 (unless I am thinking of something else...:))

Reshy, I could be wrong but I don't think those issues sound like they could be caused by Exerelin. In fact the no error thing could mean it is an error beyond StarSector itself. It may be worth checking the windows event logs to see if there is something there.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: sirboomalot on June 03, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
Ah yes, I figured some weren't bugs and the borderless fleets I remember were neutrals. Hrmm I always noticed stations with borders in every game I have played?? But about the white backgrounds? That was the biggest game breaking bug. I can't fight if I can't see.. :-[  No one else has experienced this? Maybe it is a vanilla issue?

I've run into the white screen bug a lot; it is a memory error in the vanilla game caused from a build-up of memory over time due to something that has to do with the backgrounds the game eventually fails to load. The more mods (or modded stuff) you have the faster the memory bug seems to build up once you start the game, hence the bug not being discovered until recently when folks started using a whole bunch of modded factions at once. The time it takes for the white screen to show seems to vary by computer, and restarting starsector has proven to reset the time on the white screen'a death. It should be fixed in the next release of starsector, and until then the only real recommendation is to save often, and possibly restart starsector in between video episodes to keep the bug from cropping up during them.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 08:10:42 PM
I've run into the white screen bug a lot; it is a memory error in the vanilla game caused from a build-up of memory over time due to something that has to do with the backgrounds the game eventually fails to load. The more mods (or modded stuff) you have the faster the memory bug seems to build up once you start the game, hence the bug not being discovered until recently when folks started using a whole bunch of modded factions at once. The time it takes for the white screen to show seems to vary by computer, and restarting starsector has proven to reset the time on the white screen'a death. It should be fixed in the next release of starsector, and until then the only real recommendation is to save often, and possibly restart starsector in between video episodes to keep the bug from cropping up during them.

Thank you good sir! This is nice to know. On the other hand it is a little unsettling because I just started up SS, only had the new Exerelin mod and lazylib checked and I got the old WSOD at my first battle... not good not good :-[

It has been a couple of days since I restarted my pc so maybe that didn't help. I'll restart and see how far I can get.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: LazyWizard on June 03, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
I've run into the white screen bug a lot; it is a memory error in the vanilla game caused from a build-up of memory over time due to something that has to do with the backgrounds the game eventually fails to load. The more mods (or modded stuff) you have the faster the memory bug seems to build up once you start the game, hence the bug not being discovered until recently when folks started using a whole bunch of modded factions at once. The time it takes for the white screen to show seems to vary by computer, and restarting starsector has proven to reset the time on the white screen'a death. It should be fixed in the next release of starsector, and until then the only real recommendation is to save often, and possibly restart starsector in between video episodes to keep the bug from cropping up during them.

Thank you good sir! This is nice to know. On the other hand it is a little unsettling because I just started up SS, only had the new Exerelin mod and lazylib checked and I got the old WSOD at my first battle... not good not good :-[

It has been a couple of days since I restarted my pc so maybe that didn't help. I'll restart and see how far I can get.

If you have a 64-bit version of Java installed on your computer, you can tell Starsector to use that instead of its bundled JRE and allocate more memory. This would be especially useful for a LPer, since bugs like that are disastrous for a video. :)

If you're using Windows, you would edit starsector-core/starsector.bat to look something like this:
Code
"C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\bin\java.exe" -server -XX:CompilerThreadPriority=1 -XX:+CompilerThreadHintNoPreempt -Djava.util.Arrays.useLegacyMergeSort=true -Djava.library.path=native\\windows -Xms512m -Xmx4g -classpath janino.jar;commons-compiler.jar;commons-compiler-jdk.jar;starfarer.api.jar;starfarer_obf.jar;jogg-0.0.7.jar;jorbis-0.0.15.jar;json.jar;lwjgl.jar;jinput.jar;log4j-1.2.9.jar;lwjgl_util.jar;fs.sound_obf.jar;fs.common_obf.jar;xstream-1.4.2.jar; -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.saves=..\\saves -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.screenshots=..\\screenshots -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.mods=..\\mods -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.logs=. com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher

In this example, the batch file points at my system's 64-bit Java 7 install, fixes a bug with Java 7 in the current SS version (the useLegacyMergeSort=true part) and allows the JVM to allocate up to 4 gigs of memory. Now I just run Starsector using starsector.bat instead of starsector.exe, and memory issues are a thing of the past. :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 03, 2013, 09:14:35 PM
If you're using Windows, you would edit starsector-core/starsector.bat to look something like this:

Oh cool I might just do that. I assume I can edit a .bat file with notepad or something??

EDIT: I just changed it to txt and then changed it back. Works like a charm, thanks :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Reshy on June 04, 2013, 06:49:14 AM
Reshy, I could be wrong but I don't think those issues sound like they could be caused by Exerelin. In fact the no error thing could mean it is an error beyond StarSector itself. It may be worth checking the windows event logs to see if there is something there.

It only happens with the mod installed, and I only have Lazy's Lib and Exerelin installed.  I don't know how to view the windows event logs so if you can tell me I'll find what's in there when it crashes.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: kupan9 on June 04, 2013, 09:41:44 AM
Reshy, I could be wrong but I don't think those issues sound like they could be caused by Exerelin. In fact the no error thing could mean it is an error beyond StarSector itself. It may be worth checking the windows event logs to see if there is something there.

It only happens with the mod installed, and I only have Lazy's Lib and Exerelin installed.  I don't know how to view the windows event logs so if you can tell me I'll find what's in there when it crashes.
Before trying to debug anything, I want to verify that you have rebooted since this has started happening to you, and it is still occuring after the reboot. Sometimes people leave their computer on for extended periods (is totally not guilty of this.. :Shifty eyes:) and occasionally the computer just legitimately just needs a reboot.

Assuming you have rebooted and still have this problem, here is how to use the Event Viewer.
It would help if you told us which version of windows you are running, but for XP and 7 you should be able to find the event viewer in Start menu -> Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer.
In Windows 7 you can also just type in 'Event Viewer' in the search box in the Start Menu.
Heaven Google help you if you are on Windows 8, because I can't.

I would check 'Application', 'Security', and 'System' logs under the 'Windows Logs' and the 'Hardware Events' under the 'Applications and Services Logs'
I would probably check it like this,
1. Take screenshots of the logs listed above, then close the Event Viewer.
2. Start the Game, When it crashes,
3. Close out anything the game has left (if it is frozen on white screen, then end process in the Task manager [push Ctrl + Shift + Esc, or Ctrl+ Alt + Del ->Task Manager])
4. Re-Open the Event Viewer and compare the entries to the screenshots and see if any new entries exist.

Good luck.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 04, 2013, 11:54:14 AM
Does anyone have any early game strategies or suggestions? I don't mean in combat or surviving/building up credits/ships I mean more with the campaign aspect, the colonization or expansion aspect of the game.

Is it best to just wait for your wages to roll in and build up a fleet until war is declared? Because it seems when I start a war with someone early on it never ends up good for me. The last time I started war with some pirates right away so I didn't have that many fleets. We took care of the pirates for the most part but ended up getting attacked back at our station and all my fleets not able to defend because they were over at the pirates station waiting for them to come out so they could beat on them. All the while my station at home was getting overrun and with no one but my pathetic little start ship to defend.

And about wages, does anyone else think they might be OP? Perhaps the pay period could be extended. I find myself to have an abundance of credits fairly early on in the game.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: kupan9 on June 04, 2013, 12:31:09 PM
Does anyone have any early game strategies or suggestions? I don't mean in combat or surviving/building up credits/ships I mean more with the campaign aspect, the colonization or expansion aspect of the game.

Is it best to just wait for your wages to roll in and build up a fleet until war is declared? Because it seems when I start a war with someone early on it never ends up good for me. The last time I started war with some pirates right away so I didn't have that many fleets. We took care of the pirates for the most part but ended up getting attacked back at our station and all my fleets not able to defend because they were over at the pirates station waiting for them to come out so they could beat on them. All the while my station at home was getting overrun and with no one but my pathetic little start ship to defend.

And about wages, does anyone else think they might be OP? Perhaps the pay period could be extended. I find myself to have an abundance of credits fairly early on in the game.

I tend to pick a faction that I don't like or that I want to get Capital ships from and hit them hard at the start. This does two things, one it levels me up some, and two is that it redirects alot of traders to them pretty fast. That usually ends up with them having the most capital ships pretty fast, and all condensed into one or two stations, so they are easy to track. The downside is that you need to either back off and fight something else, or hope you managed to get enough for a decent ship/fleet to combat the larger ones. Some factions will back you up decently during this stage so you can keep picking off fleets that have been damaged by your allies, but some factions just don't do that as well. Most factions fail against the Neutrinos at this stage, It is mostly up to Faction vs Faction autoresolve and spawning rates.
I am not saying this is a particularly good way to go about the early game, it is just what I find myself doing.

As far as Wages go, I am not sure it is accomplishing what it seems to set out to do. While having access to more funds does help get that ship or weapons a bit sooner, it doesn't help anything when you can afford that shiny new capital ship to find that no stations in your faction currently have enough crew to run it. This is particularly a problem with some of the ships that need 1k+ crew, or larger fleets. This tends to encourage me to play 'solo' as I can't find enough crew for a reasonable fleet without seriously hurting my faction's fleets and spending alot of time grabbing crew as soon as traders land at stations. Basically Money is pretty easy to get, supplies not to hard until you need alot of them, weapons just take a bit of time at war to get a good mix and omni factory means you only need to get one, Crew is hard to find and replace(which might not be a such a bad thing if cruisers and up didn't take so much more than frigates in most factions), with specific other faction's ships being the hardest thing to acquire.
If I had my way, wages would be given in the form of Supplies and crew at your personal Abandoned Station with maybe a 10%-20% chance of a random any faction weapon and a 1-2% chance of a random any below cruiser ship form any faction, with a .01% of a cruiser or better.


TLDR:
Hitting a faction hard at the start often helps make them more powerful pretty quickly, but limited to a smaller area (assuming lots of planets/stations)
Crew is hard to find sometimes, and hurts your faction to take.
Wages give to many credits, and might be better as Supply/Crew drops at your station.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 04, 2013, 02:28:50 PM
Hmm, so the faction you start to beat up on gets extra trade ships for some reason? And yes you usually run into a crew cap sort of and that's what really stops you from expanding your fleet progress..
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 04, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
Does anyone have any early game strategies or suggestions? I don't mean in combat or surviving/building up credits/ships I mean more with the campaign aspect, the colonization or expansion aspect of the game.

Is it best to just wait for your wages to roll in and build up a fleet until war is declared? Because it seems when I start a war with someone early on it never ends up good for me. The last time I started war with some pirates right away so I didn't have that many fleets. We took care of the pirates for the most part but ended up getting attacked back at our station and all my fleets not able to defend because they were over at the pirates station waiting for them to come out so they could beat on them. All the while my station at home was getting overrun and with no one but my pathetic little start ship to defend.

And about wages, does anyone else think they might be OP? Perhaps the pay period could be extended. I find myself to have an abundance of credits fairly early on in the game.

Potentially the wages are a bit much, but it is only 2500/5000 credits per ~10 days if at peace/war. I tend to play without saving/loading much so if I take a bad beat... they are handy :)

Normally when starting out I don't attack anyone until a few other wars/alliances have started (depending on the number of starting factions). Each faction starts out with an initial randomised like/dislike of each other faction and this normally plays out within the first week or two. Once a war or two is started, then I look at joining in or starting a different one myself. If you (the player) start a war, it will result in a negative to factions allied with the faction you attacked, a small negative to neutral factions and a positive to enemies of that faction. So, you can kind of drive your factions relations a bit by picking a certain faction to attack.

Hmm, so the faction you start to beat up on gets extra trade ships for some reason? And yes you usually run into a crew cap sort of and that's what really stops you from expanding your fleet progress..

Not really, all other factions should be fairly similar (at least in the most recent version). What can happen is a resource injection for the faction with least station via the Trade Guild event.

--- snip ---
As far as Wages go, I am not sure it is accomplishing what it seems to set out to do. While having access to more funds does help get that ship or weapons a bit sooner, it doesn't help anything when you can afford that shiny new capital ship to find that no stations in your faction currently have enough crew to run it. This is particularly a problem with some of the ships that need 1k+ crew, or larger fleets. This tends to encourage me to play 'solo' as I can't find enough crew for a reasonable fleet without seriously hurting my faction's fleets and spending alot of time grabbing crew as soon as traders land at stations. Basically Money is pretty easy to get, supplies not to hard until you need alot of them, weapons just take a bit of time at war to get a good mix and omni factory means you only need to get one, Crew is hard to find and replace(which might not be a such a bad thing if cruisers and up didn't take so much more than frigates in most factions), with specific other faction's ships being the hardest thing to acquire.
If I had my way, wages would be given in the form of Supplies and crew at your personal Abandoned Station with maybe a 10%-20% chance of a random any faction weapon and a 1-2% chance of a random any below cruiser ship form any faction, with a .01% of a cruiser or better.
--- snip ---

Thank you kupan, this is an excellent idea and solves a couple of issues I've not liked about the wages system. Initially I wanted a safety-blanket type mechanic, to get you back on your feet, but with money there can be either nothing to buy OR you can buy opposition resources. With a supply injection at the Storage Facility, it is up to the player to either save those resources, use them for themselves or give them to their stations to boost fleet sizes.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: sirboomalot on June 04, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
Not enough crew for that shiny new capital ship!? Huh... having always focused my own fleets around an unstoppable frigate swarm, I never even realized that a lack of crew might be a problem for some...

Anyways, for the beginning of the game I've always just busied myself with putting anything and everything from my station into the omnifactory until my faction declared a war without me.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Reshy on June 04, 2013, 07:05:22 PM
Before trying to debug anything, I want to verify that you have rebooted since this has started happening to you, and it is still occuring after the reboot. Sometimes people leave their computer on for extended periods (is totally not guilty of this.. :Shifty eyes:) and occasionally the computer just legitimately just needs a reboot.

Assuming you have rebooted and still have this problem, here is how to use the Event Viewer.
It would help if you told us which version of windows you are running, but for XP and 7 you should be able to find the event viewer in Start menu -> Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer.
In Windows 7 you can also just type in 'Event Viewer' in the search box in the Start Menu.
Heaven Google help you if you are on Windows 8, because I can't.

I would check 'Application', 'Security', and 'System' logs under the 'Windows Logs' and the 'Hardware Events' under the 'Applications and Services Logs'
I would probably check it like this,
1. Take screenshots of the logs listed above, then close the Event Viewer.
2. Start the Game, When it crashes,
3. Close out anything the game has left (if it is frozen on white screen, then end process in the Task manager [push Ctrl + Shift + Esc, or Ctrl+ Alt + Del ->Task Manager])
4. Re-Open the Event Viewer and compare the entries to the screenshots and see if any new entries exist.

Good luck.



No I don't leave the game on for long, however sometimes when fighting large fleets with a large fleet it will close itself.  Loading saves also slows down to a crawl after about 5 loads.


Also I'm running windows 8 so I don't think those instructions work for me.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Ambient on June 05, 2013, 01:15:12 AM
Love the mod so far, but where are the weapons at?

No station seems to have any....

as well as ships....
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Sproginator on June 05, 2013, 01:28:13 AM
Been playing this md for a while now, gotta say,


It's really too easy to get the higher level ships early on, try increasing their price?

Other than that, the ability to build my own fleets using special resources like in fleet control would be amazing
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 05, 2013, 03:05:54 AM
No I don't leave the game on for long, however sometimes when fighting large fleets with a large fleet it will close itself.  Loading saves also slows down to a crawl after about 5 loads.


Also I'm running windows 8 so I don't think those instructions work for me.

Reshy, give this a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsfXYWGRDAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsfXYWGRDAA), it should help. You'll want to look in Application or System for AppCrash (or similar) with Java.exe or StarSector.exe.

Otherwise, have a look at  http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6249.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6249.0). It lists how to change memory settings for Java under Windows (I assume the same for Windows 8 ). It may help.

Love the mod so far, but where are the weapons at?

No station seems to have any....

as well as ships....

Weapons and ships will be delivered to stations owned by the faction you chose at the start. They will predominantly be ships/weapons of you faction, but other factions ships/weapons can also be delivered from time to time.

Been playing this md for a while now, gotta say,


It's really too easy to get the higher level ships early on, try increasing their price?

Other than that, the ability to build my own fleets using special resources like in fleet control would be amazing

As in too easy to get capital ships? Due to lots of money, or boarding? Seeing as 0.6 will lower the boarding chance that should help fix that problem :)

I'm not sure if I'll go down the fleet construction way to the level of fleet control but I may look at a way to provide more direction to your factions fleets. It really requires a few UI elements but the idea would be to dictate preferences for defense/offense/patrol, small/large fleets, ideal fleet composition, an ability to assign stations to attack/defend. I don't know if you have ever played "Settlers II" but it had a very indirect way of managing your empires army. Ideally I would like to follow that route. A few of the changes I did to the station/fleet subsystems in the recent update should provide a way to do this, but yeah it really needs some custom UI elements to manage. But, I guess we'll also have to see what StarSector itself brings :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Silver Silence on June 05, 2013, 04:58:30 AM
I'm playing as the Council at the moment and all I have for capitals is an Overlord which is a rather ponderous broadside ship. Recently captured theEND and a Nevermore. Using theEND with a pair of frigates but for some reason, the Council is at war with the Neutrino, Valkyrians, Blackrock and the Pirates. Starting base is gonna be lost pretty soon because there are capital fleets all over it, and the Council fleets have all jumped ship to another station that they captured recently.
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 05, 2013, 05:03:12 AM
The Council seem to hate me, They always start a war with me and my babies. :'(
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Ambient on June 05, 2013, 01:35:57 PM
Love the mod so far, but where are the weapons at?

No station seems to have any....

as well as ships....
Quote
Weapons and ships will be delivered to stations owned by the faction you chose at the start. They will predominantly be ships/weapons of you faction, but other factions ships/weapons can also be delivered from time to time.


I find it kinda dumb that you cannot find any weapons in any other station other then your own.

edit: i dont know how exactly the quotes got messed up but i cleaned it up
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Sproginator on June 05, 2013, 01:45:42 PM
I didn't say that.... XD
Title: Re: [0.54.1] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Silver Silence on June 05, 2013, 03:17:55 PM
Love the mod so far, but where are the weapons at?

No station seems to have any....

as well as ships....
Quote
Weapons and ships will be delivered to stations owned by the faction you chose at the start. They will predominantly be ships/weapons of you faction, but other factions ships/weapons can also be delivered from time to time.


I find it kinda dumb that you cannot find any weapons in any other station other then your own.

edit: i dont know how exactly the quotes got messed up but i cleaned it up

One can simply explain it away as the other factions don't like your butt and won't sell anything to you.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: joey4track on June 05, 2013, 06:26:38 PM
Been playing the update and I really like it! I love how you can now get random stuff from other factions and I'm glad that you can't just buy everything from everyone. I do think though that it might be cool to be able to have access to your allies shops too but whatever..

So in my last go, I've had some luck being a Junk Pirate. Their starting ships are pretty great but it seems like no matter what I do EVERYONE gangs up on me. Also(and I don't know what the fleet control mod does really but) I think it would be cool if there was a way to have another fleet follow you in the campaign map. Maybe you could run into them and there could be a dialogue action to maybe follow you for a couple days if you give them x amount of cargo or whatever. Because most of the time one of my station needs serious backup and fleets from my other station are completely oblivious. Is there anything I can do about that?

EDIT: Oh and I also think it might be cool if your attack stations had a further distance in which they can take over new stations.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Silver Silence on June 05, 2013, 06:50:11 PM
I wish there was a way to tell the Council to get off their ass and get some station-capping transports rolling. My Council is at war with Neutrino, Valkyrians, Lotus, ASP Syndicate (which is laughable, yet they somehow wreck military council fleets), Junk Pirates, the Purifiers and Elders and BlackRock DriveYards.

Lost the original station, which means that the Omnifactory and the station warehouse is swarming with Valkyrians. Meanwhile, the Council never fields any worthy fleets (fleets with seemingly 20 odd capitals) and never sends assault transports. Hell, I would escort them myself if they would just spawn in the first place. Also still waiting for a supply convoy to drop off a Venator so I can *** Serkets, or for a Hawk IV as I have never managed to capture one and thus have never flown one. Doesn't help that I'm not told of inbound convoys so that I can escort them. I don't know if they're not spawning or if they're not making the run to the station. Meanwhile, we have "Reinforement" fleets trolling around enemy stations and not capturing them because they can't. Urgh, makes me want to find the admiral and beat him around the head with a fish.

P.S
You know the Purifiers and the Elders are actually mortal enemies, right? Right? Once upon a time, Purifiers used to be pretty OP with their efficient 360 degree shields and HE-dmg energy weapons, but that all changed when the Fire Nation Neutrino Corp attacked.

Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Blade Skydancer on June 05, 2013, 07:37:29 PM
So, I don't know if this is intentional or not, but the "A few old friends" option for the number of factions that gets added only adds two other factions. In my case, playing Tri-tach, I get Hegemony and Pirates...but that's not all of the factions. Where's the Independents? Are they not supposed to be there? If not, how can I add them to the choice?

EDIT: Just started a game as Independents, thinking that might trigger the three others to spawn, but only got Hegemony and Pirates again.

EDIT2: Digging around in the Character Creation script, I noticed the line for all vanilla factions to spawn, noticed it was set to 3 factions, so I increased it to 4. And...that did not work.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 05, 2013, 08:28:19 PM
So, I don't know if this is intentional or not, but the "A few old friends" option for the number of factions that gets added only adds two other factions. In my case, playing Tri-tach, I get Hegemony and Pirates...but that's not all of the factions. Where's the Independents? Are they not supposed to be there? If not, how can I add them to the choice?

EDIT: Just started a game as Independents, thinking that might trigger the three others to spawn, but only got Hegemony and Pirates again.

EDIT2: Digging around in the Character Creation script, I noticed the line for all vanilla factions to spawn, noticed it was set to 3 factions, so I increased it to 4. And...that did not work.

Yep that's a bug :( the issue will be in (I think, dont have code in front of me) the getAvailableFactions method in ExerelinData.java. It needs to return all 4 if the VanillaOnly flag is set. From memory I was excluding "Player" and the value in playersFaction variable. It doesnt need to do that anymore so just make sure it returns all 4 and that should fix it.

I will fix tonight. Thanks for bringing it up :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Blade Skydancer on June 05, 2013, 08:47:56 PM
No problem. Though I did see something interesting, before a crash during loading trashed my save(and before my faction went to war with the Hegemony again and I got ate by a sentinel fleet), "tritachyon [basenamehere] has ceded to independents!" Which was weird, because there weren't any independents in my system at all.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: FlashFrozen on June 05, 2013, 08:55:48 PM
Just as a note, Neutrino are still mere shells of what their former stats were, and I'm thinking of maintaining their semi fragility, with much reduced deployment costs and still low maintenance/day costs(in 0.6a) but much higher repair costs to offset the fact they always get outnumbered. lol.
Or a noticeable bump to their armor.

I'll finally be able to modify their effectiveness (neeerf!)  in autoresolve so I can bump something up to par again :P
But more will come with the update, still tinkering to do.

I wonder if I should just push out Version 1.65 hmm. =o
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Silver Silence on June 05, 2013, 09:18:09 PM
No problem. Though I did see something interesting, before a crash during loading trashed my save(and before my faction went to war with the Hegemony again and I got ate by a sentinel fleet), "tritachyon [basenamehere] has ceded to independents!" Which was weird, because there weren't any independents in my system at all.

It's a station going rogue and flipping it's colours to another faction.

EDIT:
What causes Rebels, exactly? The Neutrino seem to have a MAJOR problem with rebellions and like 90% of their fleets rebelling all at once. One second the map is white, the next it's *** yellow. Is it caused by having too many wars or something?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 05, 2013, 09:26:29 PM
Valks also have a huge problem with rebels, they lose basically all their fleets every 10-15 minutes to a mapwide insurrection.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 05, 2013, 09:53:01 PM
Yeah that is a bug too. It's meant to be a % of the leading factions fleets rebel, where that % is based on system station ownership. So the more you are winning by the more fleets rebel. It's just a balance mechanic. But I think it's calculation is off slightly... :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Blade Skydancer on June 05, 2013, 10:09:48 PM
Oh! Another thing. Tri-tach is missing the Medusa-class destroyer in their fleets and stations, IIRC.
And I think there may be a phase destroyer you're missing for them too.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: KingRice on June 06, 2013, 02:19:23 AM
It's been quite some time since I picked Starfarer, or sector, up but I'm glad I did - The core game is cool but this mod is brilliant.

At first I was quite frustrated with having one station and some small fleets, then the entire universe decides to go to war with me. That's all fixed with the current version I'm on and I'm having a blast. So far I really love playing as Valkyrain, there's a starting ship which has a hugely powerful cannon which obliterates anything with its shields down.

I'd just like to report something I think may be a bug; (this has happened every playthrough for me) after a certain amount of time supply fleets seem to stop coming to stations? I'm not sure if this is intentional, but after say a cycle in game I just stop getting supply fleets to stations. I've checked and watched the map for like half an hour on and off and never saw any for ages. Due to this I started bringing supplies back to my stations (fuel and supplies) but it doesn't help when the station has no crew to field new fleets. Eventually I managed to wipe out a whole faction and take some of their stations, immediately these stations were getting supply fleets and thanks to that I was able to continue the game. I'm not sure if these stations will soon lose their supply fleets like the first two did, I think they will though, seems to be something that just happens after time.

But other than that I can see nothing wrong, it's great!

Here's my faction on my current playthrough, certainly one of the better ones! Amazingly, I've had no rebel fleets come for me at all yet, but I hope they do soon :)
Spoiler
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/screenshot0081.png)
[close]
I think InterstellarFederation will be next on my list.


Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 06, 2013, 02:37:56 AM
Oh! Another thing. Tri-tach is missing the Medusa-class destroyer in their fleets and stations, IIRC.
And I think there may be a phase destroyer you're missing for them too.

The medusa should appear? It is certainly listed to... I'll double check both and make sure :)

It's been quite some time since I picked Starfarer, or sector, up but I'm glad I did - The core game is cool but this mod is brilliant.

At first I was quite frustrated with having one station and some small fleets, then the entire universe decides to go to war with me. That's all fixed with the current version I'm on and I'm having a blast. So far I really love playing as Valkyrain, there's a starting ship which has a hugely powerful cannon which obliterates anything with its shields down.

I'd just like to report something I think may be a bug; (this has happened every playthrough for me) after a certain amount of time supply fleets seem to stop coming to stations? I'm not sure if this is intentional, but after say a cycle in game I just stop getting supply fleets to stations. I've checked and watched the map for like half an hour on and off and never saw any for ages. Due to this I started bringing supplies back to my stations (fuel and supplies) but it doesn't help when the station has no crew to field new fleets. Eventually I managed to wipe out a whole faction and take some of their stations, immediately these stations were getting supply fleets and thanks to that I was able to continue the game. I'm not sure if these stations will soon lose their supply fleets like the first two did, I think they will though, seems to be something that just happens after time.

But other than that I can see nothing wrong, it's great!

Here's my faction on my current playthrough, certainly one of the better ones! Amazingly, I've had no rebel fleets come for me at all yet, but I hope they do soon :)
Spoiler
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/screenshot0081.png)
[close]
I think InterstellarFederation will be next on my list.

You are correct, that is a bug :( I'll fix it tonight (there is a calculation to slow down and eventually stop supply convoys if the station has a lot of resources, unfortunately I was being vastly over stringent). Thanks for passing it on!

Just out of curiosity, are you sure you're playing the most recent version (0.53)? Just that in your screen shot it appears your team is the player green colour. I changed that in the most recent version (along with a few other things). :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: KingRice on June 06, 2013, 03:04:18 AM
Quote
You are correct, that is a bug :( I'll fix it tonight (there is a calculation to slow down and eventually stop supply convoys if the station has a lot of resources, unfortunately I was being vastly over stringent). Thanks for passing it on!

Just out of curiosity, are you sure you're playing the most recent version (0.53)? Just that in your screen shot it appears your team is the player green colour. I changed that in the most recent version (along with a few other things). :)

Ah, I'm on 0.51, I'll update it now :P

But yeah thanks for the mod, its great fun :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Zaphide on June 06, 2013, 03:07:14 AM
Quote
You are correct, that is a bug :( I'll fix it tonight (there is a calculation to slow down and eventually stop supply convoys if the station has a lot of resources, unfortunately I was being vastly over stringent). Thanks for passing it on!

Just out of curiosity, are you sure you're playing the most recent version (0.53)? Just that in your screen shot it appears your team is the player green colour. I changed that in the most recent version (along with a few other things). :)

Ah, I'm on 0.51, I'll update it now :P

But yeah thanks for the mod, its great fun :D

Bear in mind that save files will not be compatible between the earlier versions and 0.53. The bug fix I'll put out tonight will be compatible with 0.53.

And you're welcome :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: KingRice on June 06, 2013, 03:12:30 AM
Quote
Bear in mind that save files will not be compatible between the earlier versions and 0.53. The bug fix I'll put out tonight will be compatible with 0.53.

And you're welcome :)
Haha thats fine, my faction got too strong anyway, I need to try another one :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.53
Post by: Silver Silence on June 06, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
Ah I do so love using a faction's weapons against them. Unstable Photon Cannons f**ks with their shield AI so much which lets me strafe Gladiator Beams across their hull. Now just imagine. 6 of these Beams. And all equipped with the TachLance's special EMP lightning effect. Blows out weapons, engines, ship systems, everything. And then I just keep messing with their shields with the Photon Cannons and lazing an unshielded part of their hull with the Gladiators till they die. Even the Valkyrian Vaticans with their stupendous amount of guns and engines can only take 2 volleys from these Gladiators till everything is burned out. Also, Hawk III, pretty insane OP allowances and if, like me, you don't use missiles all that much, you can forego the ~10 missile slots all over it's hull and invest 70-80 OP into hullmods. Can't wait to find a Venator, though.

However, at one point my faction, the Council, did actually get pushed out of Exerelin. Annoyingly, stations that get captured are cleared of their weapon inventories. Thankfully, they are not cleared of their ship inventories. Annoyingly, the Omnifactory and Storage are still in orbit near a now-Valkyrian station. Thankfully, everyone became neutral when the Council left. Annoyingly, the Council came back with a vengeance and decided to take on the Junk Pirates, also incurring the wrath of the Lotus, Neutrino and Valkyrians in the process. Thankfully, I've leveled up enough to be able to take on most L4 fleets with the possible exception of the Neutrino and their damned Banshees. They're almost as annoying as the Halo Banshees. Damn missile spam.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 06, 2013, 03:06:17 PM
A bug fix update to fix a few issues. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.54.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.54.zip)

EDIT: This should be save compatible with v0.53
EDIT2: Link is broken. I will fix when I can.
EDIT3: Fixed!

Code
v0.54
 - Changed reinforcement fleets to pick a more appropriate attack location
   - They also have a chance to defend an under attack station of their faction

 - Fixed issue with starting with one less faction than specified in the system setup
 - Fixed issue with supply convoys stopping delivering resources
 - Fixed issue with the rebel insurrection event (far too few or far too many fleets were switching to rebels)
 - Fixed issue with weapons not being removed correctly when over 30
 - Fixed issue with ships not being removed correctly when over 25
 - Fixed issue with ships not clearing from a station when taken over

 - Slightly increased the resource cost of factions deploying capitals and fighters
 - Slightly reduced  the resource cost of factions deploying cruisers
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Blade Skydancer on June 06, 2013, 03:17:01 PM
Link's broken, Zaph.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 06, 2013, 03:32:24 PM
Code
v0.54

 - Fixed issue with ships not clearing from a station when taken over


Wait, that wasn't intentional?  :'(
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 06, 2013, 03:55:19 PM
Link's broken, Zaph.

Damn... I'll have to fix later today sorry :(

Code
v0.54

 - Fixed issue with ships not clearing from a station when taken over


Wait, that wasn't intentional?  :'(

Nope, it was meant to clear everything (destroyed in the takeover) :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 06, 2013, 07:15:27 PM
(http://nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg)

Ah well. I'll grab the new version when it's link is fixed and hope the Council stops picking a 4 on 1 fight against the Neutrino/Valkyrian/Junk Pirate/Lotus Conglomerate power bloc that's formed in my save.


EDIT:
Well, I can't load my save anymore. Starfarer gets to about 95% loading then dies. GG.
Exerelin Save (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a572f2g0pfencp0/save_Exerelin_7586416809098045870.zip) if anyone wants to play it. I can't anymore. You'll have 3 fairly powerful frigates and the storage yard in orbit over Arya holds a few capital ships. Some of them are in disrepair because I dropped them off without the supplies to fix them. The Omnifactory has a ton of weaponry to outfit ships with as well as several fighters to buy, including the godly Serkets. Have fun. If you can load, anyway. All factions -ARE- in-game. However I think the Antediluvians got shunted out and have been gone for ages. That or I'm blind. IFed have been gone for quite a while and have only recently (within the past hour of play) managed to secure a footing again. Current hostilities are with Lotus, Junkers, Valkyrians and Relics. No allies.

DOUBLE EDIT:
Those 3 frigates are also pretty godly and you can totally expect those little things to bring down Valkyrian Vaticans with relative ease. The Elder Drone Autofactory (D.A class) of the Relics will give you issues with massed needler drones. That's the only ship I've ever had difficulty with. Never engaged the Nihil ever because the Nihil has never bothered the Council and vice versa.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 07, 2013, 12:48:29 AM
Link's broken, Zaph.

Fixed :)

Sorry for the delay!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 07, 2013, 04:45:01 AM
Time to start over~!

Who to be... Who to be... Who to be...
On the one hand, I really like the IFed's weapon selections but don't like most of their ships. I like the Council ships, don't so much like their weapon selection. Might play a smaller game, not have ~20 planets and 30 stations. Maybe 10-20 planets and equivalent number of stations. I'll go Council again. Hopefully the admiral won't pick a fight with the local bloc. And hopefully I'll find a Venator.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: conorano on June 07, 2013, 11:25:24 AM
May I suggest adding this fleet mod to your mod http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3043.0. (if you can get the guys permission) The ships look out of place from the pictures, but ingame they look really good and not out of place at all! in my opinion. They are pretty balanced, fun to use and unique too.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: theSONY on June 07, 2013, 12:05:33 PM
i dunno how about latest ver. (0.54) because   i have some difficulties when im on the system map,
game freezes (more then usual) no sound when it happens , saves take more time (even at the beggining at the game) same for loading game save
i just check (again) how  0.53v is working for me & im 70% sure it run's smoother then 0.54
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 07, 2013, 03:06:52 PM
May I suggest adding this fleet mod to your mod http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3043.0. (if you can get the guys permission) The ships look out of place from the pictures, but ingame they look really good and not out of place at all! in my opinion. They are pretty balanced, fun to use and unique too.

At this stage I doubt I'll add more factions to the mod, mainly because it already seems to cause some people issues with memory use and load times. Once StarSector 0.6 is released I'll see how it's going and may add more then.

It is (fairly) easy to set it up to run alongside other mods, you just have to tweak a few things in each mod. There is a how-to on the first page (use the preferred method if possible).

i dunno how about latest ver. (0.54) because   i have some difficulties when im on the system map,
game freezes (more then usual) no sound when it happens , saves take more time (even at the beggining at the game) same for loading game save
i just check (again) how  0.53v is working for me & im 70% sure it run's smoother then 0.54


You're 70% sure? :P Hmmm that is weird, I barely changed anything at all, and it shouldn't have to load/save more data. I'll see if I can track anything down but for me it is the same (and I play on a very low spec laptop).
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: sirboomalot on June 07, 2013, 03:42:10 PM
Awwww c'mon zaphide, at least make an optional download with the extra mods, not EVERYONE has memory issues, and the load time is worth the wait! I guess I'll see about trying to add in this mod myself without messing anything up. Wish me luck folks!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 08, 2013, 12:46:43 AM
Awwww c'mon zaphide, at least make an optional download with the extra mods, not EVERYONE has memory issues, and the load time is worth the wait! I guess I'll see about trying to add in this mod myself without messing anything up. Wish me luck folks!

Yeah I could... I did debate doing a few different versions (as I added more and more factions) but decided it's too much work to maintain them all :P I'm actually surprised that people struggle with performance issues playing the mod as I play on a fairly weak laptop and have never had any issues  ???

The other reason I am not in a hurry to add any more factions as with StarSector 0.6 around the corner a number of mods will either get updated or won't work that well anymore, and I'm sure I'll have plenty to do without trying to find more work :P

What I initially set out to achieve was you would have Exerelin installed and any other faction mods you wanted. Then, depending on which factions you had installed, it would use them when constructing the system. Unfortunately that info is unavailable (as far as I can tell) at the initial question phase, and I ran into a few other issues so I bundled a number of factions with Exerelin.

If you setup the other mod with the side-by-side method outlines in the first post then you should be good to go. Let me know if you have any issues and I'll help you sort them out.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: LazyWizard on June 08, 2013, 01:33:21 AM
What I initially set out to achieve was you would have Exerelin installed and any other faction mods you wanted. Then, depending on which factions you had installed, it would use them when constructing the system. Unfortunately that info is unavailable (as far as I can tell) at the initial question phase, and I ran into a few other issues so I bundled a number of factions with Exerelin.

You could check for the presence of that mod's generator (or any script exclusive to that mod, really), like this:
Code
        boolean isThuleLegacyPresent = false;
        try
        {
            // Check if Thule Legacy's generator is loaded by the game
            Global.getSettings().getScriptClassLoader().loadClass("data.scripts.world.TLGen");
            // If the above throws an exception, this line won't run
            isThuleLegacyPresent = true;
        }
        catch (ClassNotFoundException ex)
        {
            // Couldn't find Thule Legacy's generator
        }

        if (isThuleLegacyPresent)
        {
            // Mod is loaded, do stuff
        }
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 08, 2013, 02:25:43 AM
What I initially set out to achieve was you would have Exerelin installed and any other faction mods you wanted. Then, depending on which factions you had installed, it would use them when constructing the system. Unfortunately that info is unavailable (as far as I can tell) at the initial question phase, and I ran into a few other issues so I bundled a number of factions with Exerelin.

You could check for the presence of that mod's generator (or any script exclusive to that mod, really), like this:
Code
        boolean isThuleLegacyPresent = false;
        try
        {
            // Check if Thule Legacy's generator is loaded by the game
            Global.getSettings().getScriptClassLoader().loadClass("data.scripts.world.TLGen");
            // If the above throws an exception, this line won't run
            isThuleLegacyPresent = true;
        }
        catch (ClassNotFoundException ex)
        {
            // Couldn't find Thule Legacy's generator
        }

        if (isThuleLegacyPresent)
        {
            // Mod is loaded, do stuff
        }

Oooohhhh most interesting! Thanks! The other main issue was generators clashing (in fact I basically want to cancel generators other than Exerelin's loading). I couldn't think of a way to do this either... Any thoughts about that Mr Helpful Wizard? :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: LazyWizard on June 08, 2013, 02:43:49 AM
What's wrong with the method you're using now, overwriting generators.csv and having the choices during character creation be used to setup the system? You're handling the sector generation, spawn points and faction relations yourself, right? What parts of their generators would you be using?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 08, 2013, 03:15:31 AM
What's wrong with the method you're using now, overwriting generators.csv and having the choices during character creation be used to setup the system? You're handling the sector generation, spawn points and faction relations yourself, right? What parts of their generators would you be using?

Yeah none, but I thought they conflict? As in mine or theirs run first, which then causes the next one to fail. At least i think thats what happened. Hmmm this was all some time ago so I'll have anothe play round and see what happens. Anyway, thanks I really appreciate the help :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: LazyWizard on June 08, 2013, 03:29:36 AM
If you're replacing generators.csv no other mod's generators will run. The code I posted a few posts back just checks if the class exists (meaning the mod is tagged in the launcher), it doesn't actually run the generator. :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: josh5671 on June 08, 2013, 04:43:37 AM
Code
323150 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.EventOutSystemReinforcements.callReinforcementFleets(EventOutSystemReinforcements.java:67)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.EventManager.runEvents(EventManager.java:47)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.runDaily$(SystemManager.java:68)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.doIntervalChecks$(SystemManager.java:211)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.advance(SystemManager.java:355)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.A.???000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)

Get a null error just now, after a battle.
not sure what problem
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: theSONY on June 08, 2013, 10:44:16 AM
about my game running problem:
abaut long save i do this thing that Alex was mentioning in other post
(Side note: if you edit settings.json and set "compressSaveGameData":true, the saves will be *much* smaller and the loading times will speed up correspondingly. On the downside, you won't be able to hand-edit the save files anymore.)
it cut the save time in half
about freezing & stuff like that:well i start a new game ,same settings same faction (thules) & it was't THAT bad till my faction helps independents with their war so i got  2 other factions on me (Nihilic Empire & valkyrians)
so i was like: ok, fine , bring it on till this (3-4 days after war declaration)
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/TdVePFD.png)
[close]
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/3qL51Rf.png)
[close]
& its not stopping , i got that raports but after 4-5 lines it disapear till next day rapport
frame rate drop drastically , to 12 FPS
 my average frame rate is above 30-40
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 08, 2013, 10:54:18 AM
I think my babies want your station..pretty badly.. you better hand it over :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 08, 2013, 11:06:55 AM
I'm pretty sure that's not meant to happen. Even if a siege fleet is moved off of a station by a threat, when they come back they'll just continue their mission without repeatedly telling you.

My saves get slower and slower to load the more I play.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: theSONY on June 08, 2013, 11:22:55 AM
My saves get slower and slower to load the more I play.
yes im aware of that , but i got longer saves on the 209 cycle not on the 6-8 months in the game
i dunno maybe its about numbers of the fleets on the system map or  i dunno
thats reminds me , dont you think that there are way TOO much fleets on the map? becouse its getting crowded from from version to version

I think my babies want your station..pretty badly.. you better hand it over :P
till i lvl up some (currently lvl 3) then i'll *** valkyrians like *pow pow pow whoosh whoosh whoosblargblarghabargbang*
BTW Val, i don;t like your faster system vessel , to me it just like Valkyrians lost their identity, Big mean but slow
well maybe "don't like" is too much to say , its somehow doesn't  fit your earlier work ;P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 08, 2013, 11:28:53 AM
The #YOLO Inquisitor that charges forth into the fray?


On another note, the Vatican IV has those mini antiproton cannons near it's ass. The sound effects of those things sounded pretty familiar. And after downloading the DLC for SoaSE and playing ~7 hours of that in a game with a near unbeatable turtle, I think I know why, advent weapons have that sound effect.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 08, 2013, 02:28:59 PM
Code
323150 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.EventOutSystemReinforcements.callReinforcementFleets(EventOutSystemReinforcements.java:67)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.EventManager.runEvents(EventManager.java:47)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.runDaily$(SystemManager.java:68)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.doIntervalChecks$(SystemManager.java:211)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.advance(SystemManager.java:355)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.A.???000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)

Get a null error just now, after a battle.
not sure what problem

Thanks, I'll check it out.



Yeah it's not meant to do that... I had that happen when I was developing and it will end up crashing the game. Any chance you just overwrote .53 with .54? Rather than doing a full replace?

RE the too many fleets, yeah I agree. The fleets are a bit smarter now so I think I could easily reduce the number of fleets but also increase their max sizes a bit too.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: theSONY on June 08, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
Yeah it's not meant to do that... I had that happen when I was developing and it will end up crashing the game. Any chance you just overwrote .53 with .54? Rather than doing a full replace?


99% not
i learn it already that you just DON'T do that
but there's always that 1%
so if happens again i'll be 100% sure
so i'll just wait & see
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 08, 2013, 05:43:25 PM
I had that happen earlier, too. http://i.imgur.com/qoHcxqG.jpg
It is all fresh. I never overwrite mods. Always delete the folder, then replace with new mod.
I did actually fight those fleets, too. All 4 of them. With my one Venator and two shadowyards fighter wings. And after all that and barely surviving the last fight because a dominator just pumped hellbores into my ass when I'm using augmented engines and unstable injectors so my engines were out forever, still lost the station anyway. Went to dock there, repair with the ~3000 supplies I got from the fight, lolno, this is Hegemony now. Okay.jpg


EDIT:
http://i.imgur.com/sxhaThD.jpg
So I had a near-death experience when two Onslaughts with double sensor array buffs wanted to play rough with me. Survived that engagement, actually got one of the Onslaughts to surrender. Then I lost my ship due being way over the fleet max. Feels were had.
Title: Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
Post by: Reshy on June 09, 2013, 12:16:50 PM
Quote
Log Name:      Application
Source:        Application Hang
Date:          6/9/2013 11:49:43 AM
Event ID:      1002
Task Category: (101)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      -Withheld-
Description:
The program java.exe version 6.0.180.7 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Action Center control panel.
 Process ID: 1138
 Start Time: 01ce653e64bb627d
 Termination Time: 4294967295
 Application Path: D:\Fractal Softworks\Starfarer\jre\bin\java.exe
 Report Id: 582c06b4-d135-11e2-bf37-a417319eea72
 Faulting package full name:
 Faulting package-relative application ID:

Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Application Hang" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="0">1002</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>101</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2013-06-09T18:49:43.000000000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>13725</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>-Withheld-</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>java.exe</Data>
    <Data>6.0.180.7</Data>
    <Data>1138</Data>
    <Data>01ce653e64bb627d</Data>
    <Data>4294967295</Data>
    <Data>D:\Fractal Softworks\Starfarer\jre\bin\java.exe</Data>
    <Data>582c06b4-d135-11e2-bf37-a417319eea72</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Binary>54006F00700020006C006500760065006C002000770069006E0064006F007700200069007300200 0690064006C00650000000000</Binary>
  </EventData>
</Event>



Quote
Source
Java(TM) Platform SE binary

Summary
Stopped responding and was closed

Date
?6/?9/?2013 11:49 AM

Status
Not reported

Description
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.
Faulting Application Path:   D:\Fractal Softworks\Starfarer\jre\bin\java.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name:   AppHangB1
Application Name:   java.exe
Application Version:   6.0.180.7
Application Timestamp:   4b2aa6cf
Hang Signature:   f9d8
Hang Type:   137216
OS Version:   6.2.9200.2.0.0.768.101
Locale ID:   1033
Additional Hang Signature 1:   f9d82b147b6ad3097a0d9c822ca02a2a
Additional Hang Signature 2:   de0a
Additional Hang Signature 3:   de0a40479120ea8170f842d4122846d6
Additional Hang Signature 4:   f9d8
Additional Hang Signature 5:   f9d82b147b6ad3097a0d9c822ca02a2a
Additional Hang Signature 6:   de0a
Additional Hang Signature 7:   de0a40479120ea8170f842d4122846d6

Files that help describe the problem
version.xml
java.exe.xml
WERInternalMetadata.xml
WERDataCollectionFailure.txt

Here is the error that occurs when the game randomly exits for no reason.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: sirboomalot on June 09, 2013, 02:35:07 PM
That looks like an error with java... and looking at the version you have it seems that your java is out of date...
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 09, 2013, 02:37:55 PM
Sorry Reshy I don't really know what all that means, other than it is Java that is crashing (rather than StarSector) which is why you don't get an error in the StarSector log. Seeing as noone else (as far as I am aware) has reported a similar issue, it is almost certainly down to a combination of your OS and the Java install.

My only comment is that is this the latest version of Java?
Quote
Application Version:   6.0.180.7

If possible it may be best to completely remove all Java version from your PC and reinstall the latest version.

It may be best to post this in the 'Bug Reports and Support' section as well.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: kupan9 on June 09, 2013, 06:56:46 PM
As for the constant messaging from a station invasion, I just got it on 0.53. It would appear to be caused by a new faction's out of system attack fleet targeting a station.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 09, 2013, 08:27:04 PM
Most of that is meant to happen... the Out-of-Sector fleet(s) sieging a station, being informed of the siege, things like that. Just something randomly goes wrong at times and causes you to be repeatedly informed of such and the severity gets worse the more fleets are making an attack. It doesn't happen every time one of these incursion fleets attack, though, so,  ???

Also, do factions randomly decide to be -very- peaceful? When I started my save in 0.54, the Valkyrians set up shop then proceeded to do nothing for almost 3 in-game years and just be fed constantly by the TradeGuild till the Neutrino showed them the door. No allies, no enemies, no nothing. Just hanging around.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Plasmatic on June 09, 2013, 11:23:29 PM
Love the mod, although one thing I noticed is that capital ships are really Really slow..

They are massive ships sure, but 12-20 speed? the battle is all but over before they get to it.

In big battles, you either need lots of fighters to cap the points or frigates, which with the speed the big ships are going are not going to survive long enough to get any help from the capital ships..

I would think somewhere between 30-40 would be pretty good, still slower than cruisers but still twice as fast as they are now?

Maybe I'm missing the point of them being so slow?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 10, 2013, 12:22:40 AM
As for the constant messaging from a station invasion, I just got it on 0.53. It would appear to be caused by a new faction's out of system attack fleet targeting a station.

Yeah I should have a fix for it in the next version.

Also, do factions randomly decide to be -very- peaceful? When I started my save in 0.54, the Valkyrians set up shop then proceeded to do nothing for almost 3 in-game years and just be fed constantly by the TradeGuild till the Neutrino showed them the door. No allies, no enemies, no nothing. Just hanging around.

Haha well there are a number of factors that drive the diplomacy system. It could certainly result that way. By coming last, they were less likely to get wars. They should have been more likely to get allies (which could then drag them into a war) but it seems they didn't quite! Ideally a faction shouldn't do nothing (otherwise it's a bit boring) but due to a few things it could happen.

Love the mod, although one thing I noticed is that capital ships are really Really slow..

They are massive ships sure, but 12-20 speed? the battle is all but over before they get to it.

In big battles, you either need lots of fighters to cap the points or frigates, which with the speed the big ships are going are not going to survive long enough to get any help from the capital ships..

I would think somewhere between 30-40 would be pretty good, still slower than cruisers but still twice as fast as they are now?

Maybe I'm missing the point of them being so slow?

Thanks :)

Which faction are you playing as? Capital ships tend to be between 10-60ish speed wise. Some of the more dreadnought-ish ships are in the lower range, with the more nimble capital ships generally trading away weaponry and/or shields/armor.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Plasmatic on June 10, 2013, 12:33:42 AM
As for the constant messaging from a station invasion, I just got it on 0.53. It would appear to be caused by a new faction's out of system attack fleet targeting a station.

Yeah I should have a fix for it in the next version.

Also, do factions randomly decide to be -very- peaceful? When I started my save in 0.54, the Valkyrians set up shop then proceeded to do nothing for almost 3 in-game years and just be fed constantly by the TradeGuild till the Neutrino showed them the door. No allies, no enemies, no nothing. Just hanging around.

Haha well there are a number of factors that drive the diplomacy system. It could certainly result that way. By coming last, they were less likely to get wars. They should have been more likely to get allies (which could then drag them into a war) but it seems they didn't quite! Ideally a faction shouldn't do nothing (otherwise it's a bit boring) but due to a few things it could happen.

Love the mod, although one thing I noticed is that capital ships are really Really slow..

They are massive ships sure, but 12-20 speed? the battle is all but over before they get to it.

In big battles, you either need lots of fighters to cap the points or frigates, which with the speed the big ships are going are not going to survive long enough to get any help from the capital ships..

I would think somewhere between 30-40 would be pretty good, still slower than cruisers but still twice as fast as they are now?

Maybe I'm missing the point of them being so slow?

Thanks :)

Which faction are you playing as? Capital ships tend to be between 10-60ish speed wise. Some of the more dreadnought-ish ships are in the lower range, with the more nimble capital ships generally trading away weaponry and/or shields/armor.

So far I've played blackrock and council, working on shadowyard next.

I guess I need to make the distinction between capital and dreadnaught as well.. I saw them all as capital ships..

However, from my experience in this game, dreadnaught or not, no ship can survive alone against an army.. which considering how slow these ships are they will probably end up doing..

The times I've faced them I've always seen them be deployed last when the rest of the ships are either destroyed, or retreating. I just surround the ship and pick away at it until it has to drop shields from flux..

The game in it's current state favors attacks in force, it is hard to solo 3+ ships alone unless you are in an even faster ship..

Really looking forward to what this mod turns into with 0.6 :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 10, 2013, 12:48:04 AM
So far I've played blackrock and council, working on shadowyard next.

I guess I need to make the distinction between capital and dreadnaught as well.. I saw them all as capital ships..

However, from my experience in this game, dreadnaught or not, no ship can survive alone against an army.. which considering how slow these ships are they will probably end up doing..

The times I've faced them I've always seen them be deployed last when the rest of the ships are either destroyed, or retreating. I just surround the ship and pick away at it until it has to drop shields from flux..

The game in it's current state favors attacks in force, it is hard to solo 3+ ships alone unless you are in an even faster ship..

Really looking forward to what this mod turns into with 0.6 :)

Yeah likewise :) There are a lot of things that Alex & Co are either finalizing, making available to modders or adding into the game with StarSector 0.6 that I think will allow us all to have a lot of fun! That being said, I suspect the usefulness of Exerelin will diminish as StarSector moves to versions 0.7, 0.8, 0.9 and finally 1.0. Still, we'll see what happens. It might end up being a different game mode or something :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 10, 2013, 01:14:00 AM
Many Council ships trade their speed for firepower as you get bigger and bigger, while Blackrock ships never really slow down. The Blackrock's only capital is fairly nimble and it's more typical cruisers are still very fast with their specialized maneuvering jets. Council ships on the other hand are plodding and wreck anything that lets them get close. Their capitals are covered in  small energy slots, which can make for an awesome PD grid, though they're also generally leaning towards energy weapons in general and they don't have many long ranged energy weapons. Their typical heavy energy weapon consumes a terrifying amount of flux but does very good damage in return. Neutrino ships are also pretty slow, but dayum, you don't want those things keeping up with you.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Plasmatic on June 10, 2013, 01:24:47 AM
Many Council ships trade their speed for firepower as you get bigger and bigger, while Blackrock ships never really slow down. The Blackrock's only capital is fairly nimble and it's more typical cruisers are still very fast with their specialized maneuvering jets. Council ships on the other hand are plodding and wreck anything that lets them get close. Their capitals are covered in  small energy slots, which can make for an awesome PD grid, though they're also generally leaning towards energy weapons in general and they don't have many long ranged energy weapons. Their typical heavy energy weapon consumes a terrifying amount of flux but does very good damage in return. Neutrino ships are also pretty slow, but dayum, you don't want those things keeping up with you.

Yeah, I just gotta keep trying different factions to learn which one is for me :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: theSONY on June 10, 2013, 07:38:30 AM
my Out of Sector attack fleet can't takeover enemy station
or mayby im just "lucky" , will wait for another one , maybe they will have more GUTS to take over Nihilic station  ;P

Edited: ok when my next out of the system attack fleets appears they succeed :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: conorano on June 10, 2013, 01:22:38 PM
hey Zaphide. could you maybe add this mod: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3893.0 to the vanilla factions to spice them up a bit, i know you said you probably weren't going to add more faction mods but this isn't a faction :P. you could make it an option for people becouse maybe some people don't like these new ships.
These ships are kitbashed and look pretty cool in my opinion and they're not overpowered (apart from maybe some but those aren't nihil/council level OP). would love to have this in so the vanilla factions feel more varied.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Philo_sophist on June 10, 2013, 02:26:56 PM
Repeatedly getting a java error:

722433 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
   at sun.misc.Unsafe.allocateMemory(Native Method)
   at java.nio.DirectByteBuffer.<init>(DirectByteBuffer.java:99)
   at java.nio.ByteBuffer.allocateDirect(ByteBuffer.java:288)
   at org.lwjgl.BufferUtils.createByteBuffer(BufferUtils.java:60)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ooOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ooOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.String.while$super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)

I do have the latest JAVA version installed...seems as though I need to allocate more memory.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 10, 2013, 02:27:51 PM
There are a lot of huge ships in Exerelin, and those sprites drain a lot of memory when loading.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Philo_sophist on June 10, 2013, 02:54:20 PM
Just got this:

865806 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
   at sun.misc.Unsafe.allocateMemory(Native Method)
   at java.nio.DirectByteBuffer.<init>(DirectByteBuffer.java:99)
   at java.nio.ByteBuffer.allocateDirect(ByteBuffer.java:288)
   at org.lwjgl.BufferUtils.createByteBuffer(BufferUtils.java:60)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.replaceBackground(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.C.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.load(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.for.ÓO0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.N.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OOoO.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)

I'm running a dell latitude e6230. It's a core i7 with 8 gigs of ram and an intel HD 4000 series onboard gpu. Surely I shouldn't be having memory allocation problems.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 10, 2013, 03:44:13 PM
With integrated gfx and a mod with this many ships, it's totally likely that you'll have an OOM crash after a while of playing.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Philo_sophist on June 10, 2013, 04:11:46 PM
Damn. the unfortunate part is that it generally happens within a few minutes of loading up my saves. :(

Oh well...back to Uomoz's Covus.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 10, 2013, 05:29:18 PM
Have a look at this thread for some options http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6249.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6249.0) on increasing java memory allocation. Some people have had success.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 10, 2013, 05:44:32 PM
I roll crappy integrated gfx and barely push 30 without hiding the HUD and playing in a cinematic style. Also another reason why I fly solo in my saves. Totally screwed if I fight the same faction as the ships I'm using. Once they go off screen and I lose track of them, I'm liable to shoot them. Lost more than a few ships thanks to the overkill of Hadron Accelerators.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: joey4track on June 10, 2013, 05:51:21 PM
I edited my game from Lazy's advice and I've had no problems since then.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 11, 2013, 12:08:47 AM
So the Valkyrians seem to hate themselves (http://i.imgur.com/OqoE52X.jpg).

I'ma call civil war a feature.  :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: sirboomalot on June 11, 2013, 12:30:01 AM
What happened, some rebels take a base or something? Can that even happen? I think it ought to be able to happen but with them getting a different name.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Zaphide on June 11, 2013, 01:01:59 AM
So the Valkyrians seem to hate themselves (http://i.imgur.com/OqoE52X.jpg).

I'ma call civil war a feature.  :D

Haha hmmm civil war is not a feature yet :P so I wonder what happened? Did any events happen just before that?

What happened, some rebels take a base or something? Can that even happen? I think it ought to be able to happen but with them getting a different name.

Yeah it's in my list of 'things to add when I have time' :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Philo_sophist on June 11, 2013, 01:14:53 AM
Indeed....I've replaced the .bat file with the appropriate code and now that the game is calling to the 64-bit jre instead of the 32 bit it's packaged with, there haven't been any more issues.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 11, 2013, 01:49:20 AM

Haha hmmm civil war is not a feature yet :P so I wonder what happened? Did any events happen just before that?


They were pushed out of the system, then a couple days later, the non existent Valkyrians went to war with themselves.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: ValkyriaL on June 11, 2013, 01:52:48 AM
They got angry at the guys in command and decided to fight themselves...
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.54
Post by: Silver Silence on June 11, 2013, 01:55:37 AM
They got angry at the guys in command and decided to fight themselves...

Valk, your admirals suck. Get new ones.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 12, 2013, 01:03:52 AM
Another bug fix update. I also reduced the number of attack and defense fleets per station to two, while at the same time increasing max fleet sizes by approximately 50%.

It should be compatible with v0.54 (or v0.53 if you haven't updated to that one yet).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.55.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.55.zip)

Code
v0.55
 - Changed number of defense fleets per station to 2
 - Changed number of attack fleets per station to 2

 - Fixed null pointer error in reinforcement event
 - Fixed spam of station boarding message
 - Fixed random extra characters in station boarding warning message
 - Fixed spawn issue with in system supply convoys
 - Fixed situation where faction could declare war on itself(!)

 - Increased maximum fleet sizes for all fleets
 - Slightly reduced maximum station takeover time for out system fleets
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: joey4track on June 12, 2013, 01:07:30 AM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.55.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.55.zip)

404  :(
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 12, 2013, 01:28:21 AM
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.55.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43834064/Exerelin_0.55.zip)

404  :(

Haha upload is always super slow to Dropbox. Just give it 20mins or so :)

(I really should upload first before posting anything...)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: zaszella on June 13, 2013, 11:27:50 PM
There are three folder named 'diplomacy' 'events' 'stations' in scripts\world\exerelin,but they are empty.
I can change the faction Hostility/Friendly by doing something like:defeat a specific enemy/rebel fleet or help them on supply/marine/crew/fuel in later vision of Exerelin.
Are you working on this?
Can you tell me something about that?
 ::)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: theSONY on June 14, 2013, 02:19:59 AM
meh ;/ can't capture the station bug still present ;/
+station anyone ?
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/LokZGZv.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 14, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
There are three folder named 'diplomacy' 'events' 'stations' in scripts\world\exerelin,but they are empty.

They are just from when I was going make an attempt to organise the code a bit more. I left them there to remind me to get around to it sometime :)

I can change the faction Hostility/Friendly by doing something like:defeat a specific enemy/rebel fleet or help them on supply/marine/crew/fuel in later vision of Exerelin.
Are you working on this?
Can you tell me something about that?
 ::)

Yeah I have a few ideas for the player affecting the relationships a bit more. At the moment as a player you can only cause your faction to declare war against another faction. I would like to add the ability to increase your relationship with a faction (i.e. sell them a specfic high-value object, like enemy confidential documents or something, and/or your idea of selling them war supplies). I would also like to add the ability for a player to affect another factions relationship with a third faction (i.e. sell them something that causes them to dislike/blame another faction).

meh ;/ can't capture the station bug still present ;/
+station anyone ?
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/LokZGZv.png)
[close]

Hmm the station attack ships will sit there for sometime boarding the station (even when it's abandoned). It should (eventually) capture it, but it can take a long time. It's currently a random time length, but I'll probably change it to base it on remaining marines at the station or something similar.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Helios on June 14, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
Is there anyway to disable the whole "station seceded" and "fleet insurgency" thing? Especially the former, I'm really, REALLY sick of it. I do choose "factions do not respawn" btw, but they just keep taking your stations away, instantly, without warning, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Flare on June 14, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
If I buy all the supplies, marines, and crew from an enemy station will it affect the spawn rate or ease or taking it over at all?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 14, 2013, 07:03:34 PM
I believe crew is needed and if a station is short, then sub-par fleets will be produced. Fleets with one or two ships will move out instead of ~10-20 ships with full fighter support.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 14, 2013, 08:54:53 PM
Is there anyway to disable the whole "station seceded" and "fleet insurgency" thing? Especially the former, I'm really, REALLY sick of it. I do choose "factions do not respawn" btw, but they just keep taking your stations away, instantly, without warning, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.

Hmmm the station secede event is meant to follow the same rules as the respawn fleets. I'll check it out. EDIT: yeah it is a bug sorry, fixed for next version.

As for disabling events entirely, I could add a selection at the start to select whether you want to play with events on or off. Some of the events provide a lot of the faction vs faction balance. As the mod progresses, I would like to move more and more of the balancing to the diplomacy system and remove/lessen the need for the more heavy-handed approach with the events.

If you would like to disable specific events, you could always edit the mod itself. Go to /mods/Exerelin/data/scripts/world/exerelin/EventManager.java and in the method runEvents (it is the only method) comment out the particular event e.g. to remove the station secede event:
Code
if(ExerelinData.getInstance().respawnFactions && ExerelinUtils.getRandomInRange(0,55) == 0)
{
//eventStationSeccession.makeStationSecedeToOutSystemFaction(); COMMENTED OUT
return;
}

This SHOULD affect saved games too :)

If I buy all the supplies, marines, and crew from an enemy station will it affect the spawn rate or ease or taking it over at all?

It will, but only to the point that smaller defense fleets will be produced. Stations generate resources (in addition to delivered resources) that is enough to get some smaller fleets going, which means you really need to control the area to take over their station.

EDIT: clarification
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Histidine on June 15, 2013, 11:59:22 PM
Is there a specific pattern to diplomacy? It seems that as you advance through the game (I'm about level 45), more and more factions start turning hostile against you (or do they just smell blood?), and they seem to almost never sue for peace no matter how many of their fleets you smash. I think my Tri-Tachyon is at war with half the galaxy at this stage  :-X

EDIT: Ended up just letting them drive TT from the system, thereby resetting diplomatic relations. Things are much quieter now :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on June 16, 2013, 04:09:25 AM
Just tested the small energy PD disruptors for the neutrino... They are awesome..

Not only do they stop most missiles (and cause them to spin out of control)

They do the same to ships.. meaning your PD acts like tractor beams when they aren't busy with missiles..

Drones spin out of control when they are hit.
Frigates are stopped and spun slowly, but fast enough for most shots to miss..
Destroyers are mostly just stopped..
Cruisers are slowed down to snails pace..

They are the single most powerful small weapons I've ever seen :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 16, 2013, 08:14:45 PM
They're not very good at actually being PD and stopping missiles and they shoot rather slowly as well.  :P
Anything with annihilators will swamp disruptors pretty badly too, because of that slow rate of fire.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on June 17, 2013, 12:40:52 AM
They're not very good at actually being PD and stopping missiles and they shoot rather slowly as well.  :P
Anything with annihilators will swamp disruptors pretty badly too, because of that slow rate of fire.

Couple them with some actual PD and they work wonders..

Or just get enough of them :P

I said they were the most powerful because of their use against fighters and frigates that are usually faster than large turrets..
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 17, 2013, 04:01:22 AM
Is there a specific pattern to diplomacy? It seems that as you advance through the game (I'm about level 45), more and more factions start turning hostile against you (or do they just smell blood?), and they seem to almost never sue for peace no matter how many of their fleets you smash. I think my Tri-Tachyon is at war with half the galaxy at this stage  :-X

EDIT: Ended up just letting them drive TT from the system, thereby resetting diplomatic relations. Things are much quieter now :)

Diplomacy is driven by a number of factors, predominantly around how well your faction is doing. Factions tend to like factions that have less stations, are not at war with their allies, that are at war with their enemies etc. Factions don't like their stations being taken over, having no war with anyone etc.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 17, 2013, 04:17:29 AM
They're not very good at actually being PD and stopping missiles and they shoot rather slowly as well.  :P
Anything with annihilators will swamp disruptors pretty badly too, because of that slow rate of fire.

Couple them with some actual PD and they work wonders..

Or just get enough of them :P

I said they were the most powerful because of their use against fighters and frigates that are usually faster than large turrets..

Still haven't seen an Unsung from the Neutrino. Granted, they never spend much time in system anyway because someone always roflstomps them straight back out because incursion fleets are crazy OP. Typically, Neutrino field Banshees, which were the bane of my mid-game existence because javelin missiles meant I could never lower my shields or face torpedo strength energy hits and photon missiles just sprayed needles all over me. Now that I have shield dissipation, I laugh in their general direction. "HA!".

Speaking of which, Zaphide, any plans to throw a layer of polish over everything~? Give things catchier and more descript names than Out System Station Attack Fleet? Can just call those Incursions, that's what they are. Hostile takeover parties. Give everyone proper names rather than "council" or "relics" (which by the way should really be two factions, Purifiers and Elders) or "interstellarFederation"?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 17, 2013, 04:59:18 AM
Speaking of which, Zaphide, any plans to throw a layer of polish over everything~? Give things catchier and more descript names than Out System Station Attack Fleet? Can just call those Incursions, that's what they are. Hostile takeover parties. Give everyone proper names rather than "council" or "relics" (which by the way should really be two factions, Purifiers and Elders) or "interstellarFederation"?

What is... Polish?!

Haha but yeah eventually :) I'm prioritizing getting some more things in there to give the system a bit more 'life', and then I want to work on giving the player a few more things to do rather than just influence things by fighting. After that, yeah polish would be good. I'm hoping to make the names of things a bit more factions specific, so each factions has it's own fleet names, station names etc.

Interestingly, the non-proper names I'm using for things is actually important. They have to be the factions ID's, as the campaign mod API is not yet at the point where I can determine who owns what without checking the name. So the name of the faction has to contain the id of the faction which is a little limiting...

About the Elder+Purifier=Relics, I played around in a dev version with them as separate factions but it just didn't work that well, so I discussed with the mod author a few ways to add them and arciblade was OK with me combining them (which I think works really well, as each faction kind of complements each other). I realise in the lore they are meant to be mortal enemies :P so I think this is more of an interim solution until Exerelin gets to the point where it can support a capital ship only faction or arciblade adds a few more ships in :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: theSONY on June 17, 2013, 05:40:12 AM
What is... Polish?!
Polsih-Poland-Pole ect. :D
Spoiler
(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Polish_bb26f8_254566.jpg)
[close]
"Polish things up" meaning: do things in Polish way, with much use of Vodka & kielbasa (sausage) & some pickles
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on June 17, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
They're not very good at actually being PD and stopping missiles and they shoot rather slowly as well.  :P
Anything with annihilators will swamp disruptors pretty badly too, because of that slow rate of fire.

Couple them with some actual PD and they work wonders..

Or just get enough of them :P

I said they were the most powerful because of their use against fighters and frigates that are usually faster than large turrets..

Still haven't seen an Unsung from the Neutrino. Granted, they never spend much time in system anyway because someone always roflstomps them straight back out because incursion fleets are crazy OP. Typically, Neutrino field Banshees, which were the bane of my mid-game existence because javelin missiles meant I could never lower my shields or face torpedo strength energy hits and photon missiles just sprayed needles all over me. Now that I have shield dissipation, I laugh in their general direction. "HA!".

Speaking of which, Zaphide, any plans to throw a layer of polish over everything~? Give things catchier and more descript names than Out System Station Attack Fleet? Can just call those Incursions, that's what they are. Hostile takeover parties. Give everyone proper names rather than "council" or "relics" (which by the way should really be two factions, Purifiers and Elders) or "interstellarFederation"?

I don't think the Unsung is ever actually spawned anywhere.. I've played like a week straight with neutrino and I haven't seen a single unsung that I haven't hacked in :P

Try one.. you will love it.. or hate it..

"neutrino_unsung" if you know how to hack your save file.. or if you want to rather.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 17, 2013, 11:30:33 AM
Oh no, no, I have flown it in older versions of Uz's Corvus.  :P
But I haven't seen it in Uz's or in Exerelin. Would love to see it make an appearance somewhere.

Though I may just take one of my salvaged ships and just turn them into the Unsung. For science.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on June 17, 2013, 01:26:05 PM
Oh no, no, I have flown it in older versions of Uz's Corvus.  :P
But I haven't seen it in Uz's or in Exerelin. Would love to see it make an appearance somewhere.

Though I may just take one of my salvaged ships and just turn them into the Unsung. For science.

For research purposes right? :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 17, 2013, 01:32:59 PM
Y-yes. For research and testing purposes.  :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: kupan9 on June 18, 2013, 09:24:00 AM
And what is this study called, "The Methodology and Effects of Rapid Vaporization of Ship Hulls"?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Vind on June 19, 2013, 12:53:31 AM
Great mod! Really enjoy it. One question - all ships sold in stations have `ABD "ship name"` naming scheme instead of faction specific `HSS "ship name"` `TTS "ship name"` or `ISS "ship name"` and so on designations. Is it possible to fix this? Also noticed strange thing with relic enemy fleets they attack and then immediately retreat back and attack again and so on.
 (http://s10.postimg.org/ge0unhiet/Exelerin_Relics_attack_retreat.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ge0unhiet/)(http://s23.postimg.org/p5r7l03xz/Exelerin_Relics_attack_retreat2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/p5r7l03xz/)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 19, 2013, 05:51:07 PM
Great mod! Really enjoy it. One question - all ships sold in stations have `ABD "ship name"` naming scheme instead of faction specific `HSS "ship name"` `TTS "ship name"` or `ISS "ship name"` and so on designations. Is it possible to fix this? Also noticed strange thing with relic enemy fleets they attack and then immediately retreat back and attack again and so on.
 (http://s10.postimg.org/ge0unhiet/Exelerin_Relics_attack_retreat.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ge0unhiet/)(http://s23.postimg.org/p5r7l03xz/Exelerin_Relics_attack_retreat2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/p5r7l03xz/)

Hmmm I hadn't noticed that with the names, I'll check it out. Thanks :)

I suspect the fleet retreats then chases your fleet is because the underlying algorithms for the campaign map chase and the in combat retreat are different and in your situation have made the opposite decision.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: BambiSlayer99 on June 20, 2013, 11:53:17 AM
Hi there, I'm getting the fabled "fatal null" error when trying to attack trades guild ships. Haven't checked if it's the same for other ships. Any advice on how to fix?

Edit: Actually, I'm getting that before and after battle now... and I'm also getting white space in place of the traditional space background.  ??? Please help!  :'(
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Az the Squishy on June 26, 2013, 01:44:54 PM
Okay, so, i got the lazy lib, the games loads, but doesn't start and actually seems to crash. xD
So after looking at the Log file a portrait for the Nihils- who i've no idea are -is missing. I'll see about trying to pull the or a port from the mod itself and simply renaming if need be.
On the off chance this doesn't work... well, that's why i'm posting.

EDIT1: Okay, so, that didn't work, and i'm pondering on what to do next... Any help would be enjoyed, i'll be digging through my skull! xD

Heres the code, I'm also running via a Linux Laptop- 64BIT mint 15 MATE desktop -if that could be of any notoriety:
Code
44055 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/portraits/portrait_relics_elder_02.png] as texture with id [graphics/portraits/portrait_relics_elder_02.png]
44070 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 71.59 MB of texture data so far
44071 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/portraits/Nihil.png] as texture with id [graphics/portraits/Nihil.png]
44172 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.O0OO  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [graphics/portraits/Nihil.png] resource, not found in [/home/peter/Documents/linuxgames/starsector/./mods/Exerelin,/home/peter/Documents/linuxgames/starsector/./mods/LazyLib,../starfarer.res/res,CLASSPATH]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [graphics/portraits/Nihil.png] resource, not found in [/home/peter/Documents/linuxgames/starsector/./mods/Exerelin,/home/peter/Documents/linuxgames/starsector/./mods/LazyLib,../starfarer.res/res,CLASSPATH]
at com.fs.util.C.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.util.C.Object(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.graphics.F.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.H.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.A.super.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.O0OO.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
I really really wish minig was implimented in game, grrhahahea.. wah...

EDIT (problem solved~!!!)
It was the PNG extension, all i had to do was change the ext to a png format rather then PNG, or it was simply very case sensitive towards the portraits. In either case, the mod now works. :)
And yes it was actually in the file system, it was again, simply the PNG file.  ^ ^
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 27, 2013, 04:44:47 AM
Hmmm well the file is in that location (at least in my directory structure).

Only thing is it is a different character case in the extension:
mods/Exerelin/graphics/portraits/Nihil.PNG

Does the file actually exist in that location on your filesystem? I guess the other thing to check is make sure your user has read access to that directory.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Halcyon on June 27, 2013, 04:54:15 AM
Hi there, I'm new to the forum, but not to the game.
I tried your mod, but after character creation, I get this ERROR:

Code
31188 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
72141 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
72219 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 19
java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 19
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.ExerelinData.getAvailableFactions(ExerelinData.java:119)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.DiplomacyManager.<init>(DiplomacyManager.java:35)
at data.scripts.world.exerelin.SystemManager.<init>(SystemManager.java:48)
at data.scripts.world.SectorGen.generate(SectorGen.java:183)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.OoOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.for.ÓO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.B.ÓO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.o0OO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OOoO.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖÒ000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 27, 2013, 05:14:27 AM
Hi there, I'm new to the forum, but not to the game.
I tried your mod, but after character creation, I get this ERROR:
--- snip ---

I think I have fixed this for the next version, what were the starting conditions you selected?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Halcyon on June 27, 2013, 05:29:26 AM
let me see if I can remember...

name: Commander Moore
ironmode: disabled
number of planets: 21
Assteroid belts: 4
stations : 35
Omnifactory: enabled
number of factions: all
faction return: yes(second option)
faction return time: 4 months
faction: nomad
ship: Yellow Jacket
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 27, 2013, 06:27:56 AM
let me see if I can remember...
--- snip ---
number of factions: all
faction return: yes(second option)
--- snip ---

Yeah I think the bug I fixed (in my DEV version) was when you select start with 'All factions you know of!' and then for respawn 'Yes, but only factions initially in Exerelin'.

Try just selecting 'All factions you know of!' and 'Yes, factions will respawn' as it will have the exact same effect as your previous choice. The 'Yes, but only factions initially in Exerelin' option just means that if you only start with 3 other factions in system, only those factions are able to be respawned, and then only if they are knocked out. It only has effect if you start with less than the total factions at the start.

Speaking of which, I really need to get my act together and release the next version (it has fixes, changes and new features!) but it is taking me longer to implement what I wanted than I thought... :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Halcyon on June 27, 2013, 08:05:11 AM
Yup, it works...

I wanted to use my Atlas_Blackbox and its weapons but I can't seem to use both mods at the same time, how can I play with both?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 27, 2013, 08:32:44 AM
Go into Exerelin's files and unmark it as a total conversion and then double check your mod to make sure it spawns properly, as there are no hard-set stations till you make a save. It's not like you can have a ship spawned at the Hegemony station, ready to be bought for a single credit. If your mod doesn't spawn ships like that, then you can probably just buy any old ship, make sure it's stripped and then save edit the ship into your modded Atlas.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on June 27, 2013, 04:26:11 PM
Hello everyone, my first post here :)

I have been playing Exelerin for about two weeks and I totally love it, it brings whole new level of fun to StarSector. So big thanks to Zaphide and all the guys who created these awesome factions!

But since I know Java I haven't limited myself only to playing, I have been also tweaking the Exelerin code as I played, adding various small tweaks and fixing some stuff that didn't work as supposed.

And here is a question for Zaphide:
Do you have Exelerin code in some online repository where I could commit my changes to be included in the code? (or not included depending what you prefer)
Of course I could just post here about parts of the code that doesn't work but commiting the code directly would be much easier and productive. Would it be possible Zaphide?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 27, 2013, 05:21:13 PM
Hello everyone, my first post here :)

I have been playing Exelerin for about two weeks and I totally love it, it brings whole new level of fun to StarSector. So big thanks to Zaphide and all the guys who created these awesome factions!

But since I know Java I haven't limited myself only to playing, I have been also tweaking the Exelerin code as I played, adding various small tweaks and fixing some stuff that didn't work as supposed.

And here is a question for Zaphide:
Do you have Exelerin code in some online repository where I could commit my changes to be included in the code? (or not included depending what you prefer)
Of course I could just post here about parts of the code that doesn't work but commiting the code directly would be much easier and productive. Would it be possible Zaphide?

Glad you have enjoyed it :)

I didn't really envisage Exerelin being a team project :P However, if people want to contribute I think that's great (and will no doubt improve the mod too)!

Code collaboration without a repository would be hell so I will set one up. Are there any preferences on providers? I looked a BitBucket a while back and was thinking them.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 27, 2013, 07:43:43 PM
Yup, it works...

I wanted to use my Atlas_Blackbox and its weapons but I can't seem to use both mods at the same time, how can I play with both?

It really depends on how you want your ships to appear. If you just want to pilot them then Silver Silence is correct; just edit them into the save file.

Other generation scripts tend to not play nicely with Exerelin so it's a bit more work to add custom assets into it.

If you want to add your own faction then there are some guides in the first post on this thread.

If you just want to add a ship/weapon rather than a faction then you'll have to include it with one of the existing factions. You'll want to add the ship variant to their exerelinGenericFleet fleet in the .faction file, and for weapons you'll have to add them to the appropriate array in ExerelinUtils.java (as per instructions in first post). This means the AI fleets can spawn with that ship, and that the ship and/or weapons will be delivered to your factions stations.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Halcyon on June 28, 2013, 12:05:32 AM
uh, yeah... I took his advise. I just didn't posted that I did. All is going good BTW... =)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on June 28, 2013, 06:18:40 AM
Glad you have enjoyed it :)

I didn't really envisage Exerelin being a team project :P However, if people want to contribute I think that's great (and will no doubt improve the mod too)!

Code collaboration without a repository would be hell so I will set one up. Are there any preferences on providers? I looked a BitBucket a while back and was thinking them.

Well I have been contributing to one project that is hosted on Google Code (which uses SVN repo) so I am used mostly to it. BitBucket is Git but it would work too, I have to learn Git eventually anyway. Well I heard SVN is better for projects that contain a lot of non-code files, such as images, sounds etc, which is what most game mods have, as does Exelerin.
But whatever You prefer is ok for me.

PS. It would be ideal if you could set the repository using Exelerin v0.55 initlally and only then commit the changes you made since then (even as one big commit). This would make it easier to merge my changes to it.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 28, 2013, 06:50:22 AM
Well I have been contributing to one project that is hosted on Google Code (which uses SVN repo) so I am used mostly to it. BitBucket is Git but it would work too, I have to learn Git eventually anyway. Well I heard SVN is better for projects that contain a lot of non-code files, such as images, sounds etc, which is what most game mods have, as does Exelerin.
But whatever You prefer is ok for me.

PS. It would be ideal if you could set the repository using Exelerin v0.55 initlally and only then commit the changes you made since then (even as one big commit). This would make it easier to merge my changes to it.

Yeah will do. I only really thought Git because I also haven't used it. They are all so similar anyway :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Bobakanoosh on June 28, 2013, 04:42:15 PM
Just make a Drop-box account and share a repository file with anyone who asks from these forums. simple. I'm a field engineer and I use drop box all the time to deposit files for people from other vendor companies like the one I work for.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on June 29, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
It doesn't sound any simpler than just setting online repository with version control system like SVN, where everyone can see other people changes immediately.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on June 30, 2013, 01:09:56 AM
I'm confused. What would all these tweaks and fiddles with Zaphide's rigging be for?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 30, 2013, 04:06:09 AM
Okay, I have setup a Git repository at bitbucket.org (http://bitbucket.org) that I will use for Exerelin.

If anyone wishes to contribute (or merely use the dev version), please PM me your email or bitbucket.org username (if you dont have a BitBucket username, please just PM me your email so i can refer and get another free user allowance) and I will add you to the users. Please also specify:
 - What access level you want
   - Read (you just want access to the current in-development version, download only)
   - EDIT: I'm actually going to make this a public repository, so no need to apply for read access, apologies to those who already did so!
   - Write (you want to contribute changes to Exerelin)
 - The reason you want access
 - Any work you have done so far and you think should be included in Exerelin main (if you have any)
 - Your plans for future development work (if you have any)

A couple of notes about repository setup
I have done the initial commit at the released v0.55 code base. I have then (as an ugly massive commit) committed my changes I have done so far for v0.56.

The repository is just the mod files without any IDE-specific project setup (I use IntelliJ-IDEA); it is just the mod files themselves. This means:
 - You should be able to use whichever IDE you like, just include the Exerelin mod files in whichever project structure your IDE uses
   - I just use a dummy IntelliJ-IDEA project
 - You will probably not be able to use any IDE-integrated version controls
   - I am using SourceTree to manage my interactions, and just using IntelliJ-IDEA as an editor
   - I have managed to have everything working nicely just through IntelliJ-IDEA's Git integration :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on June 30, 2013, 08:00:48 AM
PM sent.

Thanks for all your effort!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on June 30, 2013, 02:34:04 PM
Slight change of plan:

I will make the repository public so that if you just wish to get the latest development version you don't have to sign up for an account etc etc.  Otherwise we will rapidly hit the 5 user limit :P

It is here:
https://bitbucket.org/zaphide/exerelin/overview (https://bitbucket.org/zaphide/exerelin/overview)

To download the latest development version:
Just use the link on the right of the overview page
OR
Downloads -> Branches -> master


To re-download an old version:
Downloads -> Tags -> {release}

As with all in-development projects, use at your own risk :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: LazyWizard on July 02, 2013, 10:41:27 AM
Your issue tracker is currently set to private, so we can't see what issues need to be fixed. :)

If the git dashboard is set up the same as it is for Mercurial projects, you would go to https://bitbucket.org/zaphide/exerelin/admin/issues if you wanted to change this setting.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Simone on July 02, 2013, 02:47:42 PM
Great mod, especially the war aspect!

Some feedback:
The Council steamrolls everything, every time. (8+ games now)
Their shields really needs a nerf.

There is something with the save function in the game that is borked atm.
After a number of saves the game slows down significantly, while saving and loading.
So much, in fact, that the game eventually crashes when i load.
A reboot of the program helps a bit, and a reboot of the computer helps a bit more, but only temporarily.
Is this something that the vanilla game has problems with when there is a lot of factions involved?

I have a 4 core 3.6 Ghz processor and 8 gigs of ram. The game is far from taxing the system to the max.
Java memory leaks?

Ps. i don't have these problems when i play the Corvus mod.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 02, 2013, 03:01:27 PM
It is a memory leak issue that happens when lots of stuff is loaded at once. It actually happens regardless, apparently, but the effect is exaggerated when large mods and thus more content is in the game.

I seem to be the only person who has not had this experience with the Council, as I play as them and they have been pushed from the system more times than I care to remember.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 02, 2013, 03:15:31 PM
Your issue tracker is currently set to private, so we can't see what issues need to be fixed. :)

If the git dashboard is set up the same as it is for Mercurial projects, you would go to https://bitbucket.org/zaphide/exerelin/admin/issues if you wanted to change this setting.

I have changed the issue tracker and wiki to both be public. I didn't initially as BitBucket doesn't really give you fine-grained controls over access (I wanted public read and private read/write) as I assume they want you to go with Jira/Confluence. So we'll see how it goes like this :)

Great mod, especially the war aspect!

Some feedback:
The Council steamrolls everything, every time. (8+ games now)
Their shields really needs a nerf.

There is something with the save function in the game that is borked atm.
After a number of saves the game slows down significantly, while saving and loading.
So much, in fact, that the game eventually crashes when i load.
A reboot of the program helps a bit, and a reboot of the computer helps a bit more, but only temporarily.
Is this something that the vanilla game has problems with when there is a lot of factions involved?

I have a 4 core 3.6 Ghz processor and 8 gigs of ram. The game is far from taxing the system to the max.
Java memory leaks?

Ps. i don't have these problems when i play the Corvus mod.

The Council faction is not really vanilla balanced; think of them as more as a elite faction. Harder if you play against them, easier if you play with them. I'm not really too concerned about individual faction balance at the moment, as StarSector 0.6 will allow a few extra ways to balance the system without resorting to tweaking individual faction ships. You can remove certain factions if you like (instructions in first post of this thread).

I'm not actually sure what causes the crash on load, but Exerelin saves quite a bit of extra data to the save file, causing it to balloon out. It is normal that you will see increasing load times, as it does actually take a certain amount of time to write/read data from the HDD. I think some people have had more success by turning on save game file compression (there should be some info on it somewhere on the forums).

EDIT: you can also increase the max memory that is allocated to Java (there are a couple of threads in the Bugs section of the forum, and previously in this thread with instructions), which may help :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Simone on July 03, 2013, 07:53:30 AM
Thank you for taking the time helping me Zaphide.

Increasing the memory allocation for java seems to have helped a little bit.
Now i only need to reboot the game every 20 min or so. Somewhat playable.

Still haven figured out how to compress the save file though.
I have tried to search the forums for an answer, but its hard to find the information i need.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 03, 2013, 08:41:48 AM
Go into the starfarer folder
Starfarer core -> data -> config -> settings.json

Open that in Notepad.
http://scr.hu/0zoz/d65a2
The line highlighted by the blue circle, change that to true. Next time you save the game, it'll compress.
Note that this means you can't start doing any savehax on it. No editing yourself a couple million credits or doing transforming ship hulls.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Gabriel_Braun on July 03, 2013, 11:38:55 AM
Btw, in systemmanager.java the run weekly method contains the line:

         if(diplomacyManager.playerRecord.hasWarTagetInSystem(false))

Is that a typo that should be hasWarTargetInSystem to pay the 5000 peacetime wage or is it supposed to be spelled that way as I've been too lazy too look?


Peace bro, awesome mod!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Simone on July 03, 2013, 11:50:37 AM
Go into the starfarer folder
Starfarer core -> data -> config -> settings.json

Open that in Notepad.
http://scr.hu/0zoz/d65a2
The line highlighted by the blue circle, change that to true. Next time you save the game, it'll compress.
Note that this means you can't start doing any savehax on it. No editing yourself a couple million credits or doing transforming ship hulls.

Thank you for trying to help me.
It didn't make any difference though, sadly.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Gabriel_Braun on July 03, 2013, 12:21:10 PM
Oh sorry Simone that wasn't in relation to the memory leak issue but rather a general code query   :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 03, 2013, 01:28:41 PM
Go into the starfarer folder
Starfarer core -> data -> config -> settings.json

Open that in Notepad.
http://scr.hu/0zoz/d65a2
The line highlighted by the blue circle, change that to true. Next time you save the game, it'll compress.
Note that this means you can't start doing any savehax on it. No editing yourself a couple million credits or doing transforming ship hulls.

Thank you for trying to help me.
It didn't make any difference though, sadly.

You can also try lowering the java allowances instead of raising them. That seems to work for a lot of people, including myself. Instead of a 512-1024 min-max allowance, I've set it to 512-512 and it's worked fine since.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 03, 2013, 03:52:08 PM
Thank you for taking the time helping me Zaphide.

Increasing the memory allocation for java seems to have helped a little bit.
Now i only need to reboot the game every 20 min or so. Somewhat playable.

Still haven figured out how to compress the save file though.
I have tried to search the forums for an answer, but its hard to find the information i need.

20 min...? I wouldn't really call that playable :( Please let me know if Silver Silence's advice helps. I may just change the mod to default to compressed save.

Btw, in systemmanager.java the run weekly method contains the line:

         if(diplomacyManager.playerRecord.hasWarTagetInSystem(false))

Is that a typo that should be hasWarTargetInSystem to pay the 5000 peacetime wage or is it supposed to be spelled that way as I've been too lazy too look?


Peace bro, awesome mod!

Haha 'WarTaget'... :P Nice catch, are you going through with a fine toothed comb? :D it wouldn't compile if the method invocation was spelt different to the implementation, but I will fix as it is a bit untidy. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Tonny on July 05, 2013, 04:46:12 PM
Great mod, especially the war aspect!

Some feedback:
The Council steamrolls everything, every time. (8+ games now)
Their shields really needs a nerf.

There is something with the save function in the game that is borked atm.
After a number of saves the game slows down significantly, while saving and loading.
So much, in fact, that the game eventually crashes when i load.
A reboot of the program helps a bit, and a reboot of the computer helps a bit more, but only temporarily.
Is this something that the vanilla game has problems with when there is a lot of factions involved?

I have a 4 core 3.6 Ghz processor and 8 gigs of ram. The game is far from taxing the system to the max.
Java memory leaks?

Ps. i don't have these problems when i play the Corvus mod.


weird, tho, my laptop can't beat yours, also 8gb of memory, a 64 bit OS. Using the suggestion for using 4gb with java x64. I usually only deal with fps drops when there are many large fleets (respawn: 2 months) or large fights, and i m finally getting some fleet together now, in 210. But i never have to reboot the game, never! Maybe a backgroundprocess? Another suggestion: video/audio drivers uptodate?

Tho, to the developper: awhile ago i met a typo, but unsure if it was only with that fleet, but the reinforcement fleet of the Tri corp was a 'reinfocement fleet'

awesome mod, not easy to play, and i try to be gentle with all corps, but it is hard to stay updated of changed 'relationships'
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Simone on July 06, 2013, 02:28:28 AM
Quote
weird, tho, my laptop can't beat yours, also 8gb of memory, a 64 bit OS. Using the suggestion for using 4gb with java x64. I usually only deal with fps drops when there are many large fleets (respawn: 2 months) or large fights, and i m finally getting some fleet together now, in 210. But i never have to reboot the game, never! Maybe a backgroundprocess? Another suggestion: video/audio drivers uptodate?

Tho, to the developper: awhile ago i met a typo, but unsure if it was only with that fleet, but the reinforcement fleet of the Tri corp was a 'reinfocement fleet'

awesome mod, not easy to play, and i try to be gentle with all corps, but it is hard to stay updated of changed 'relationships'

I don't actually have any lag issues while playing, the game is choking whiles writing save games to memory and retrieving data (loading save files). (ps. I don't have any problems with my hard drive)
The background is flashing faintly (while saving and loading) and eventually (after several save loads), loading a save file chokes the game completely and crashes.
No idea why  ??? :-[
Ive fiddled around with memory allocation for java as suggested by other nice folks in the thread, that helps a bit.
I can actually play massive battles without slowdowns.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Gotcha! on July 06, 2013, 04:10:38 AM
I am most likely going to say something stupid, but have you installed the java version that matches your OS' platform, 32-bit or 64-bit?
E.g. might you be running a 32-bit java version on a 64-bit OS?
Also, and this is even more stupid to ask, have you installed the latest java version?

Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Tonny on July 06, 2013, 10:13:00 AM
I am most likely going to say something stupid, but have you installed the java version that matches your OS' platform, 32-bit or 64-bit?
E.g. might you be running a 32-bit java version on a 64-bit OS?
Also, and this is even more stupid to ask, have you installed the latest java version?



 Secunia PSI (http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/?utm_expid=629622-6&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fsecunia.com%2F) is a free tool to keep an eye on out-of-date software, but also vulnerabilities. its not perfect, but it helps for sure, and......free
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 06, 2013, 10:48:21 AM
It's also just as easy as going here (http://java.com/en/) and updating. Driver updates you get from your gfx card's maker. New game? Give it a week or so, check for new drivers for supporting that game. Takes literally 10 minutes.

I'm a consololo player and I know how to do that. And I'd rather avoid having my craptop bloated with programs that are around for one problem that crops up every, what, few months?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Nanostrike on July 07, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
The council is stupidly OP.  I can kill multiple Vanilla Destroyers with a single Frigate of theirs.  It's ridiculous.  But other than that, I'm having fun with the scale of the battles.

Fleets of 8+ Onslaughts or 2-3 Paragons make for some fun fights.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: ValkyriaL on July 07, 2013, 05:48:10 PM
Well, council aint tagged as a vanilla balanced mod so its working as intended, and if you don't like em, theres a guide on how to add/remove factions on the OP. :3
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Cerevox on July 07, 2013, 06:14:41 PM
I don't get the complaints about the council. They are strong but not that strong. Neutrino is so brokenly OP it isn't even funny and no one mentions them. Or the valkyries. From cruiser on down the valks are just slightly above average, but their cap ships are unbeatable. I mean that literally. If you have a decent level char flying a vatican mark4 valk cap ship no fleet can beat you, they simply can't field enough ships at one time to overwhelm you. Actually, forget overwhelm ,they can't even force the shields down.

There are quite a few OP, and some absurdly OP, things floating around in here. If you want to start lists of OP stuff, the better place to do it would be to start with what actually is balanced. Its a much shorter list.

Seriously though, this mod is awesome. I just wish it felt like I was having an actual effect on the wars. It just feels like the only thing that matters is who is getting the outsystem attack forces at that moment to back them. I wish there was some way I could dump supplies or cash into my faction to help them. Even with my vatican I can only lock down one planet.  :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on July 07, 2013, 06:56:50 PM
The council is stupidly OP.  I can kill multiple Vanilla Destroyers with a single Frigate of theirs.  It's ridiculous.

It sounds like you played the Sparrow-class frigate.
I just played it too and I can say that is MASSIVELY overpowered. I just killed whole Independent Out-System Station Attack fleet in three battles using just one Sparrow frigate with default loadout. All this while playing with "Damage taken by your ship: Full" option (so not easy mode).

Some facts about the Sparrow:
- it has armament comparable to heavy destroyer or light cruiser (3 medium slots, 7 small slots) Well this is actually coparable to other Council frigates and not really a big issue by itself
- it has insane pool of 110 Ordnance Points. You can give it all weapons, maximum flux capacity and dissipation, and like 10 different hull mods before you run out of Ordnance Points.
- it has powerful shield with ONLY 0.4 FLUX/DAMAGE and good amount of flux capacity. It can face to face cruisers and make them run out of flux without being any close to get overloaded...
- it is very fast at 170 combat speed and has excelent maneuverability
- it has PHASE TELEPORTER! This is probably what makes it most overpowered in actual combat. It can teleport whole 7 times in a row before running out of flux. This means you can teleport into the middle of enemy fleet to an unshielded side of enemy ship, fire at it and then run away using teleports and repeat this ad infinitum. Your speed and teleport means you can never get caught and energy weapons mean you never run out of ammo. Killing whole fleets is easier than ever!
- It costs only 16560 credits and only 10 fleetpoints... Seriously WTF!

Imho it needs massive nerf in all mentioned stats and huge cost and fleetpoints increase before being any close to balanced.
Other Council ships are powerful too but nowhere near as bad as this.


Neutrino is so brokenly OP it isn't even funny and no one mentions them. Or the valkyries. From cruiser on down the valks are just slightly above average, but their cap ships are unbeatable. I mean that literally. If you have a decent level char flying a vatican mark4 valk cap ship no fleet can beat you, they simply can't field enough ships at one time to overwhelm you. Actually, forget overwhelm ,they can't even force the shields down.

I got the same feeling while playing. Neutrino and Valkyrians are definitely the strongest factions. No idea which units exactly as everything was killing me when I tried fighting them. :P
But the Council is very strong overall too, and has at least one absurdly OP unit (look above) and possibly more.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: sirboomalot on July 07, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
Zaphide did not create the council, and probably isn't going to alter another person's faction. He did however give you a way to remove them from the mod, and plenty of other factions to play as if the council feels too easy.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: ValkyriaL on July 07, 2013, 08:38:16 PM
Vatican Mk.IV is purposely overpowered as an end game boss ship, the only way to acquire it in the standalone is to beat it, which is fairly simple if you take a look at its overall profile, tbh its kinda silly having it running around in normal fleets, however, my next version should sort that out for Exerelin.

For what i have seen, Vat IV is the only ship causing trouble and headaches for people, which is understandable as i've stated above, simply taking it out from the random fleet generator would make things a lot more balanced on the Valk side. :) 
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Cerevox on July 07, 2013, 09:35:33 PM
Playing against it wouldn't be that hard. Most valk ships seem to have problems controlling their flux when firing and the Vatican is so slow to turn you can get a cruiser like the aurora and just sit right in front of it where it doesn't have any heavy guns and pound it down. The vatican only really becomes absurdly OP when a player is using it, although I imagine it is quite strong in ai vs ai battles too, since the ai wants to flank things and that is a bad idea with the vatican. You might actually want to leave the vatican in a few fleets though, multiple mods have super capital ships like it running around and without it the valks will get walked over by several factions.

The valks actually feel pretty balanced, they just have a huge amount of front loaded damage with their incendiary ammo. If you take them slow and careful they are pretty easy to pick apart in the AI's hands though. Honestly, the most annoying valk ship to play against is that horrible little jammer ship. That thing drives me crazy, but I love it being in there. It really fills a roll I don't see anywhere else. Valks are one of my favorite factions, and like I mentioned above, don't start feeling broken unless a player has certain of their ships set up in certain ways. Also, I don't know if the RNG is just trolling me, but there are a couple of cruisers/destroyers I never see that might be nice to have.

Yes, the sparrow is obviously made to be absurd. It can walk all over capital ships once you start shifting some of its equipment around. Most of the other council ships though only feel a level or two higher than average. The catch is that they are stronger across the board, they don't have any easy weakness to exploit which makes them an actual challenge for the player, for which I am glad.

The gedune would be massively strong if they actually had a cap ship, but without one they tend to get smashed by sheer size. As long as the fight sticks to cruiser size and down though they seem to win, simply because their ships are so mobile and have such a heavy punch right after moving.

I feel sorry for the antideluvians and the asp, they just get crushed. Anti's have that great armor and health, but without shields it is just too easy to cripple and destroy them. Asps, I think their weakness is obvious.

Nomads/Junk Pirates/Lotus/Interstellar Federation all have something interesting about them, but they are balanced to vanilla so they get walked on.  :-\

Shadowyards are really cool, and have some solid weapons, but so much of their stuff just feels flimsy or weak, I really don't play them much but they never put up much of a fight when I go after them.

Blackrock looks super cool, and their 2 cruisers, the stormcrow and nevermore, are monsters, but all the rest of their stuff feels weak. I would rather fight several of their cap ships than a single one of their cruisers.

Nihilic have incredible weapons, and their ships are strong stat-wise but due to their layout they are actually pretty easy to exploit. Nihilic do better on non-Nihilic ships. They just don't seem to have the kind of damage output they need to make them dangerous on their own.

Thule feel like a series of gimicks. Very cool gimicks that can catch you off guard if you don't know about them, but most thule ships seem to just fall apart in a standup slugfest, which is pretty easy to force. Their ships and weapons are creative and interesting but simply can't go toe to toe with most other ships it feels like.

Relics have some very unusual guns and strong shields, but with almost no armor and low hull they tend to get peeled apart fairly easily. The strange guns allow them to pull off some silly wins though. That Zapp :P

And finally the neutrino. The guys with those horrible little tiny shields. And those wacky infinite range photon things . And those splinter missiles. And those blasters, the really fast ones that make a huge amount of flux but hit like torpedoes. They are one of the few factions that I avoid fighting no matter what I am flying. They just have such massive damage output and they have those shields.... I think everyone knows what I am talking about with them.

If I was ranking factions by overall strength, with default load outs, and no shenanigans, in this mod, it would go something like this. Although keep in mind, some factions do better against one faction than another.

Neutrino, Council, Nihilic, Valkyrians, Gedune, Thule, Blackrock, Relic, Tri-Tachyon, Nomads, Intersteller Federation, Junk Pirates, Lotus, Independents, Shadowyards, Hegemony, Antediluvians, Pirates, ASP

Wow, that turned into quite a little essay.

Edit: I forgot the pirates!

Edit2: Was that council ship the sparrow or the dragonfly, I suddenly am not sure on the name.

Edit3: Upon further consideration, I am not sure how the thule actually win anything. Their cruisers/capital ships and half their destroyers are unable to actually do any real combat. An yet somehow, the ai losses to them. Go figure.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on July 07, 2013, 11:13:46 PM
Shadowyards are really cool, and have some solid weapons, but so much of their stuff just feels flimsy or weak, I really don't play them much but they never put up much of a fight when I go after them.

They are cool and each of their ships has some special ability which makes them interesting, but they suffer from lack of weapons diversity as most of their weapons are various types of CEPC, which have two problems:
- they have no accurate weapons to hit mobile targets. You can defeat their ships easily by strafing around them.
- they have no long range weapons, so it is easy to just skirmish and outrange them.


Yes, the sparrow is obviously made to be absurd. It can walk all over capital ships once you start shifting some of its equipment around. Most of the other council ships though only feel a level or two higher than average. The catch is that they are stronger across the board, they don't have any easy weakness to exploit which makes them an actual challenge for the player, for which I am glad.

The most absurd thing about Sparrow is that it is available to the player as starting ship, and on top of that it is already loaded with 10 different hull mods, which player doesn't otherwise have unlocked yet.
It can stay as elite unit but doesn't need to be so absurd, as right now it is far better than any of the other Council frigates which are very strong already. So this one unit definitely needs some manual tweaking to the stats, and definitely to cost and availability.

As for overall faction balance:
Zaphide's plan is to leave the factions units as they are and balance the factions using diplomacy. So strongest factions will be hated and fought by everyone or at least much more likely to be.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Tonny on July 07, 2013, 11:53:25 PM
my setup so far (year 210):

Tenzen class cruiser x 3
Sandstorm X 2
Oppressor Heavy Interceptor Wing x 4
Venator Heavy Carrier
2 freighters from Council, now replaced by a Vatican mk III Supercarrier

i m so tired of my freighters getting damaged in autocombat. I have avoided it for awhile by reducing the crew, so they are not combat ready, but when you start to loose crew with your interceptors, the freighters do eventually get manned, even in they are on the very end of my fleetlist, and that is  a n n o y i n g. I can take on every battle now, but sometimes it is scary to fight against bigger (high tech) fleets

i love this mod and the game, but the first years it is very difficult to build up something without loosing it :-). Now, when all tech weapons are available, the game does (finally) change :-)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Thule on July 08, 2013, 01:53:42 AM
Spoiler
Playing against it wouldn't be that hard. Most valk ships seem to have problems controlling their flux when firing and the Vatican is so slow to turn you can get a cruiser like the aurora and just sit right in front of it where it doesn't have any heavy guns and pound it down. The vatican only really becomes absurdly OP when a player is using it, although I imagine it is quite strong in ai vs ai battles too, since the ai wants to flank things and that is a bad idea with the vatican. You might actually want to leave the vatican in a few fleets though, multiple mods have super capital ships like it running around and without it the valks will get walked over by several factions.

The valks actually feel pretty balanced, they just have a huge amount of front loaded damage with their incendiary ammo. If you take them slow and careful they are pretty easy to pick apart in the AI's hands though. Honestly, the most annoying valk ship to play against is that horrible little jammer ship. That thing drives me crazy, but I love it being in there. It really fills a roll I don't see anywhere else. Valks are one of my favorite factions, and like I mentioned above, don't start feeling broken unless a player has certain of their ships set up in certain ways. Also, I don't know if the RNG is just trolling me, but there are a couple of cruisers/destroyers I never see that might be nice to have.

Yes, the sparrow is obviously made to be absurd. It can walk all over capital ships once you start shifting some of its equipment around. Most of the other council ships though only feel a level or two higher than average. The catch is that they are stronger across the board, they don't have any easy weakness to exploit which makes them an actual challenge for the player, for which I am glad.

The gedune would be massively strong if they actually had a cap ship, but without one they tend to get smashed by sheer size. As long as the fight sticks to cruiser size and down though they seem to win, simply because their ships are so mobile and have such a heavy punch right after moving.

I feel sorry for the antideluvians and the asp, they just get crushed. Anti's have that great armor and health, but without shields it is just too easy to cripple and destroy them. Asps, I think their weakness is obvious.

Nomads/Junk Pirates/Lotus/Interstellar Federation all have something interesting about them, but they are balanced to vanilla so they get walked on.  :-\

Shadowyards are really cool, and have some solid weapons, but so much of their stuff just feels flimsy or weak, I really don't play them much but they never put up much of a fight when I go after them.

Blackrock looks super cool, and their 2 cruisers, the stormcrow and nevermore, are monsters, but all the rest of their stuff feels weak. I would rather fight several of their cap ships than a single one of their cruisers.

Nihilic have incredible weapons, and their ships are strong stat-wise but due to their layout they are actually pretty easy to exploit. Nihilic do better on non-Nihilic ships. They just don't seem to have the kind of damage output they need to make them dangerous on their own.

Thule feel like a series of gimicks. Very cool gimicks that can catch you off guard if you don't know about them, but most thule ships seem to just fall apart in a standup slugfest, which is pretty easy to force. Their ships and weapons are creative and interesting but simply can't go toe to toe with most other ships it feels like.

Relics have some very unusual guns and strong shields, but with almost no armor and low hull they tend to get peeled apart fairly easily. The strange guns allow them to pull off some silly wins though. That Zapp :P

And finally the neutrino. The guys with those horrible little tiny shields. And those wacky infinite range photon things . And those splinter missiles. And those blasters, the really fast ones that make a huge amount of flux but hit like torpedoes. They are one of the few factions that I avoid fighting no matter what I am flying. They just have such massive damage output and they have those shields.... I think everyone knows what I am talking about with them.

If I was ranking factions by overall strength, with default load outs, and no shenanigans, in this mod, it would go something like this. Although keep in mind, some factions do better against one faction than another.

Neutrino, Council, Nihilic, Valkyrians, Gedune, Thule, Blackrock, Relic, Tri-Tachyon, Nomads, Intersteller Federation, Junk Pirates, Lotus, Independents, Shadowyards, Hegemony, Antediluvians, Pirates, ASP

Wow, that turned into quite a little essay.

Edit: I forgot the pirates!

Edit2: Was that council ship the sparrow or the dragonfly, I suddenly am not sure on the name.

Edit3: Upon further consideration, I am not sure how the thule actually win anything. Their cruisers/capital ships and half their destroyers are unable to actually do any real combat. An yet somehow, the ai losses to them. Go figure.
[close]

Cool personal breakdown of your mod experience.
If it is okay with you i would like to use your input over here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6371.15)
We could use guys like you who put down their knowledge and maybe have suggestion as to achieve a more balanced experience overall.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 08, 2013, 02:57:57 AM
The council is stupidly OP.  I can kill multiple Vanilla Destroyers with a single Frigate of theirs.  It's ridiculous.

It sounds like you played the Sparrow-class frigate.
I just played it too and I can say that is MASSIVELY overpowered. I just killed whole Independent Out-System Station Attack fleet in three battles using just one Sparrow frigate with default loadout. All this while playing with "Damage taken by your ship: Full" option (so not easy mode).

Some facts about the Sparrow:
- it has armament comparable to heavy destroyer or light cruiser (3 medium slots, 7 small slots) Well this is actually coparable to other Council frigates and not really a big issue by itself
- it has insane pool of 110 Ordnance Points. You can give it all weapons, maximum flux capacity and dissipation, and like 10 different hull mods before you run out of Ordnance Points.
- it has powerful shield with ONLY 0.4 FLUX/DAMAGE and good amount of flux capacity. It can face to face cruisers and make them run out of flux without being any close to get overloaded...
- it is very fast at 170 combat speed and has excelent maneuverability
- it has PHASE TELEPORTER! This is probably what makes it most overpowered in actual combat. It can teleport whole 7 times in a row before running out of flux. This means you can teleport into the middle of enemy fleet to an unshielded side of enemy ship, fire at it and then run away using teleports and repeat this ad infinitum. Your speed and teleport means you can never get caught and energy weapons mean you never run out of ammo. Killing whole fleets is easier than ever!
- It costs only 16560 credits and only 10 fleetpoints... Seriously WTF!

The Defender is my WMD of choice in the Council arsenal.  ;)
Cheaper than a Sparrow, two lasers that give the ship a combined DPS in the region of 1000+ and a complimentary set of 16 torpedoes for when you need that extra oomph.


I don't get the complaints about the council. They are strong but not that strong. Neutrino is so brokenly OP it isn't even funny and no one mentions them. Or the valkyries. From cruiser on down the valks are just slightly above average, but their cap ships are unbeatable. I mean that literally. If you have a decent level char flying a vatican mark4 valk cap ship no fleet can beat you, they simply can't field enough ships at one time to overwhelm you. Actually, forget overwhelm ,they can't even force the shields down.

There are quite a few OP, and some absurdly OP, things floating around in here. If you want to start lists of OP stuff, the better place to do it would be to start with what actually is balanced. Its a much shorter list.

Seriously though, this mod is awesome. I just wish it felt like I was having an actual effect on the wars. It just feels like the only thing that matters is who is getting the outsystem attack forces at that moment to back them. I wish there was some way I could dump supplies or cash into my faction to help them. Even with my vatican I can only lock down one planet.  :P
ur

The Council are just an overall better fleet of ships, thus everyone cries OP, though they were never made for vanilla balance so yup....

The Neutrino, their smaller ships are kinda meh. They generally don't have the durability to stand up to much, even with a 0.2 shield.  However their capital ships, notably Banshee and Hildolfr with those neutron cannons (the ones that fire slow moving sparkles of doom at you)..... I just don't have words to describe. The splinter missiles I've never found to be much of a problem, flak will deny them pretty well as will burst PD if you have enough of it.

Valkyrians, eh, that jammer ship infuriates me and I will focus those down regardless of what else might be lurking around, but I think that means it's doing it's job successfully. Many Valk weapons are at that typical assault range of ~900SU, which makes it easy to kite them with 1000+ ranged weapons like Maulers or Gauss Cannons. They're powerful, but they're slow, so it's almost a case of it being your own fault if they've caught up to you seeing as they only creep along at like 60-70m/s at best. They're also rather ponderous with their turning, to the point that you can get some of the faster capitals in the game to face hug the engines of the Vaticans.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 08, 2013, 04:42:37 AM
I love how everyone writes to Zaphide to do something about xx factions balance, but no-one posts about it in the mod in question parent topic  :D

Anyways, regarding my Old Council Loyalists - namely the Sparrow and Defender, both were nerfed in the next update.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 08, 2013, 05:10:16 AM
First off, feedback is great and quite a bit of the mod has been based on feedback so far, so thanks and please keep it coming :)

In general, I'm probably not going to do a lot to balance individual factions. This is for a number of reasons:
 - It would take a lot of time and I feel it is somewhat wasted work for the immediate future (perhaps post StarSector 0.6 though).
 - I don't mind a faction being more/less powerful per ship IF the game systems/structures can even it out in other ways ( a big if).
 - I like a lot of the individuality of the modded factions, some of which are the very things people think make them OP.
 - Everyone has a slightly different opinion on balance, so I would prefer to offer more customisation for those that want it rather than tinker myself.
 - Some factions (i.e. Neutrino) feel a bit more OP as the auto-resolve favors them more than it should.

I realise that this approach will probably annoy some people but I feel it is better to provide support for a larger number of factions, which can then be trimmed as the player likes.

Cerevox, I mainly agree with your assessment (perhaps Neutrino lower, and Shadowyards slightly higher but similar enough), but as you say some factions do better vs. others, and some faction ships are more receptive to player control and the increased OP spending.  I am very keen to see how StarSector 0.6 shakes up the balance between factions, as something like CR could play a massive role in bringing higher tech/deploy cost factions (TriTachyon) down a peg or two, while at the same time lifting the lower tech factions (Hegemony, Pirates).

Time to respond to a couple of points :)

Council Sparrow
I agree it is massively OP (especially when the player is controlling it and with extra ordinance points) and given it soundly defeats even other council ships that should tell you something :P I originally didn't include it (for this very reason) but added it in later. Potentially it could be removed from appearing again, or perhaps it could only be available as a starter ship (OmniFactory though... hmmm) so that a rookie player can start with an 'easy mode' ship :)

Disabling Factions
Most people know this but just in case: It is trivially easy to disable any factions, please see the first post in this thread for instructions.

Neutrino
Neutrino profit from an issue with the auto-resolve calculation that gives them a massive advantage. I suspect that come StarSector 0.6 this will become a non-issue. I am hopeless at piloting Neutrino ships :P but sometimes the AI can use their great shields to good effect.

Valkyrian
Yeah their cap ships are pretty good. Perhaps we need a list ships that only appear extremely rarely for each faction. I dislike the idea of removing things entirely, but locking them away a bit more could work.

Lack of player impact on faction outcomes
Yeah I think this really needs to be the next development focus (after the current one :P). I'm fairly keen to have the player have a greater impact on faction diplomacy and fleet direction, and have a few ideas that will (hopefully) be great once implemented :)

Development Involvement
Not everyone is interested but if you do want to get involved with the development in anyway, please feel free to send me a PM or checkout the in-dev version (details in first post) :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 08, 2013, 05:11:12 AM
I love how everyone writes to Zaphide to do something about xx factions balance, but no-one posts about it in the mod in question parent topic  :D

Anyways, regarding my Old Council Loyalists - namely the Sparrow and Defender, both were nerfed in the next update.

Ah well, maybe I should start forwarding it on ;)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 08, 2013, 05:24:17 AM
Indeed. Even though Zaphide has provided instructions to easily remove a faction's presence in Exerelin, people still feel the need to yabber on about the imbalance of the factions here. Even though Zaphide's OP states that his intention with Exerelin was to bring together several mods he liked, people still demand balancing. My only issues are that virtually every large Valkyrian fleet has a Vat IV in it, and in the original mod you only see that thing once. And that I've noticed medium sized IFed fleets using freighters like combat ships. Pretty funny when a fuel barge strolls into the fray in the middle of a skirmish.  :D


EDIT:
Ninja'd...

Autoresolve does tip the balance quite a bit. Autoresolve lets the ASP Syndicate roll over fleets, when in combat those things are just armed merchant ships. A lot of people go on about the Neutrino having better autoresolve due to their shields, but I still see them getting wrecked quite often. Maybe I should stalk their fleets and study them. The Antediluvians are another case where autoresolve lets them do things I really don't think they can. I mean, 5-6 Omens could probably bring down most large Antediluvian fleets simply because they have no shields and are always vulnerable to EMP, so 5-6 Omens can pretty much disable entire ships and pew away with IR Pulse Lasers at their leisure.

DOUBLE EDIT:
Ninja'd AGAIN...
Put it in big bold capital letters on the OP of the Council Loyalists "DEFENDER NERFED. SPARROW NERFED. EVERYTHING NERFED. PAINTBALL GUNS AND LASER POINTERS FOR EVERYONE."
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 08, 2013, 07:38:28 AM
Ah well, maybe I should start forwarding it on ;)

At this point, I was able to deduce, that Defender and probably Sparrow need a little nerfy.
 :D

No, on a serious note. I dont want this come out as if the player feedback was a bad thing, just that I think its not your duty.. task whatever to forward feedback for individual mods,
for your mod it makes perfect sense, but why should you get negative feedback for my s***, when I dont.. actually.. now that I think about it, I should like it, hm.. moving on.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on July 08, 2013, 11:42:20 AM
Indeed. Even though Zaphide has provided instructions to easily remove a faction's presence in Exerelin, people still feel the need to yabber on about the imbalance of the factions here. Even though Zaphide's OP states that his intention with Exerelin was to bring together several mods he liked, people still demand balancing.

We just exchanged each others experiences and opinions about factions balance. Noone demanded anything from Zaphide.
The best place to discuss factions balance in Exelerin is here, not in factions threads, as Exelerin has its own rules for creating fleets and selecting which ships from the certain faction are spawned so the faction may behave quite differently from what the original author created. A good example is the Vatican Mk. IV which spawns far too often in Exelerin, but I already have the code ready for Zaphide which will allow to change spawn chances of certain ships types.

As for balancing actual stats of certain ships I just wanted to see if others agree with what I observed about Sparrow. If we get a consensus that some ship is seriously OP then the faction creator will welcome some feedback about it. In this case MrDavidoff was then ahead of us and already made some balance changes.

@MrDavidoff:
Thank you for your fixes. Also I will post balance feedback directly in your thread next time. :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 08, 2013, 12:31:19 PM
Oh, if you scroll back to around about page 10-20, you'll find a lot of QQ about Nihil and Neutrino from Lopunny. There is at least one post where Lopunny accuses Zaphide of bad mod management, something like "shouldn't it be your responsibility to make the mods play nice?".

Yeah, the Vatican IV does spawn pretty often even though in the plain Valkyrians mod, it's just a part of a single boss fleet that tries to hunt you down at about lv30 or 40. I say try, because although the message that comes up implies it will pursue you to the ends of the galaxy, it prefers to just run around roflstomping the Valkyrians' enemies until you're in the same general area as it, at which point it actually tries to go after you instead.

I would like to see...
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on July 08, 2013, 01:17:29 PM
I would like to see...
  • The supply fleets of each faction using their freighters, if they have them. IFed using those hypertug barges, Neutrino using the Nausicaa, Hegemony using Tarsuseseseses (I don't know the plural), TriTach using Buffalos, so on, so forth.

Don't the factions which have custom freighters do exactly this already?
The problem is that apart from IFed and Neutrino most new factions don't have any custom freghters so they have to use vanilla Tarsuses, Buffalos, Valkyrie troop transports and those small tankers whatever the name is.[/list]
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Nanostrike on July 08, 2013, 01:39:29 PM
I never said to actually do anything about the Council, specifically.  Just that they ARE insanely powerful.  I haven't seen the Neutrino or whatnot in action, but I suspect they're the same.

In and of themselves there's nothing wrong with these factions.

It's just when you put them against the vanilla ones, the Vanilla has no chance.  That's all I was saying.




If you want to talk about Balance...the Vanilla Pirate faction gets decimated currently by all the other Vanilla factions on there right now.  Due to lots of unshielded ships and no capital ship, it's just sorely outclassed.




Also, is there a way you could make some sort of diplomacy menu?  In big, multi-faction wars, I tend to forget who's fighting who.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Lord_Gantrithor on July 08, 2013, 02:23:36 PM
Hello all. just want to start by saying thanks for an excellent mod. i have a quick question for you. im playing as shawdowyard and finally captured an atlas class ship. can i use it to capture facilities? i have had no luck with it so far. thanks in advance for the help.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Cerevox on July 08, 2013, 02:42:32 PM
My post was very much a "How I see the balance right now", not a request to change anything. Well, I did ask for a few things, but I clearly marked those bits with "I wish...."

I kind of like that some factions are stronger than others. If the Hegemony has to sling two or three onslaughts at every neutrino cruiser just to knock them down, that just makes the game more interesting.

I do wanna clarify a few things I said though.

On the Thule, their frigates and some of their destroyers are top notch and their kinetic guns and SRM missile pods are also great. However they seem lacking in cruisers and cap ships that are actually capable of doing anything. All of my stations fill up with troop transports and hospital ships, which do not make a good armada. They also have that missile cruiser, which would be a beast if only they actually had any large missiles to put on it. I never saw any large missiles other than the meteor show up for sale.

On the neutrino, the shields are not actually the big issue that makes them so strong. The shields are just the obvious one. Neutrino ships also have very high armor and hull amounts and high flux pools for the weapons they mount. Several of their weapons are also either OP or just pure BS. The photon canon revolver thing comes to mind. I am not sure if yall are aware, but those photon shots are infinite range. They also function as missiles so PD fires on them but because of their speed nothing but a solid wall of burst PD can kill them. The AI doesn't really abuse it, but it is entirely possible to kill opposing ships right at the start by spamming it at the other side of the map where you expect the enemy fleet to be. The Neutrino are so OP because of the combination of numerous factors all coming together, and the auto-resolve sees that their stats are just too high in many many places. Personally, I think the auto-resolve is correctly assigning them wins. I think they are slower to repair though because of their lower crew count, which means they get worn down faster than most factions by repeated battles. Just my personal impression, I could be very wrong.

Antediluvians really are not a good balance mark, because it is so easy to specialize ships to kill them. However, the AI doesn't do this, so they can legit win if they are fighting default loadouts. The Antis actually should be winning some of their ai vs ai matchs because they do have some incredible stats.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 08, 2013, 03:06:37 PM
---snip---
I would like to see...
  • The supply fleets of each faction using their freighters, if they have them. IFed using those hypertug barges, Neutrino using the Nausicaa, Hegemony using Tarsuseseseses (I don't know the plural), TriTach using Buffalos, so on, so forth.
  • Fleets having more understandable names instead of things like the Out-System Station baserape fleet.
  • Fleets making sense. I said this a couple posts ago, but I've noticed mid-sized IFed fighting fleets with barges taking up large amounts of their FP, often two or three barges in a fleet. Now the Hypertug by itself is pretty awesome, but the barges that it attaches to, not so much and having multiples of them really gimps the combat abilities of the fleets.
  • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.

Yeah as Carabus says, the first point is done as much as possible. Most modded factions don't have any cargo/fuel/personnel ships.

That name is perfectly understandable :P but fitting? Yeah not so much...

Thanks, will check it out. Freighters and civilian ships should only appear in the supply fleets.

Nice ideas. I'm also thinking that perhaps if a faction is pushed down to it's last station it could make a last stand with said elite-crewed capital ship.

---snip---
Also, is there a way you could make some sort of diplomacy menu?  In big, multi-faction wars, I tend to forget who's fighting who.
Not yet, but StarSector 0.6 will allow custom UI elements. It will be the first thing built :)

Hello all. just want to start by saying thanks for an excellent mod. i have a quick question for you. im playing as shawdowyard and finally captured an atlas class ship. can i use it to capture facilities? i have had no luck with it so far. thanks in advance for the help.

Alas not yet. At the moment you have to wait for the AI controlled fleets to takeover stations. It's something that will get done, but I think such an action would also be better with a UI element or two.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on July 09, 2013, 01:58:00 AM
Thanks, will check it out. Freighters and civilian ships should only appear in the supply fleets.

I thought small freighters are put intentionally in Attack and Defense fleets so they have supplies and fuel reserves for longer missions?
If this is not the case then the code to remove civilian ships from a fleet is already there, I just enabled it only for Patrol fleets which have to be fast to raid other fleets properly.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 09, 2013, 04:21:09 AM
Thanks, will check it out. Freighters and civilian ships should only appear in the supply fleets.

I thought small freighters are put intentionally in Attack and Defense fleets so they have supplies and fuel reserves for longer missions?
If this is not the case then the code to remove civilian ships from a fleet is already there, I just enabled it only for Patrol fleets which have to be fast to raid other fleets properly.

I *think* they should have enough reserves ... I probably just left them there by mistake :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 09, 2013, 04:39:02 AM
We just exchanged each others experiences and opinions about factions balance. Noone demanded anything from Zaphide.
The best place to discuss factions balance in Exelerin is here, not in factions threads, as Exelerin has its own rules for creating fleets and selecting which ships from the certain faction are spawned so the faction may behave quite differently from what the original author created. A good example is the Vatican Mk. IV which spawns far too often in Exelerin, but I already have the code ready for Zaphide which will allow to change spawn chances of certain ships types.

As for balancing actual stats of certain ships I just wanted to see if others agree with what I observed about Sparrow. If we get a consensus that some ship is seriously OP then the faction creator will welcome some feedback about it. In this case MrDavidoff was then ahead of us and already made some balance changes.

@MrDavidoff:
Thank you for your fixes. Also I will post balance feedback directly in your thread next time. :)

Your right, totally forgot about the different fleet compositions in Exerelin! So yeah, that makes sense to discuss it here, but balance issues of individual ships, yeha that would be ncie to post in the individual mods topic. :)

P.S. Just to be perfectly clear and I apologize to Zaphide, cause its offtopic - my mod hasnt been updated yet(standalone or in Exerelin), havent finished working on it yet, but I did made changes to the sparrow loong before Exerelin came to be, it will be there once the update is up and when zaphide has time to implement it in his own mod.


  • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.


Im reworking the sprite, so I wouldnt like to see that old kitbash in game, wouldnt put my name under it. :D But.. even when it looks good enough, i dont think It should be present in the mod, as it is rlly OP, that thing was neevr made for balance, just.. fun endgame for the player. Here, i fear it would mess up things, as noone would have anyhting to counter with.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: ValkyriaL on July 09, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
Aaah you can keep the omega, soon, i'll have a new monster available in my arsenal that can take it on. ::)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 09, 2013, 08:32:37 AM
  • Perhaps also "Elite" warfleets comprised of all elite-crewed ships along with "optimal" loadouts for the ships in the fleet. Ships designed to kill and kill efficiently. These warfleets could also contain ships like the Vatican IV or the Neutrino Unsung or the TriTachyon Omega (from the Council Loyalists mod). Perhaps individual modmakers could chip in, creating what they think would be the best loadouts for the flagships of their factions with the weapons they use. Nothing silly like Unsungs with 6 Hadrons, though. That'd be both terrifying and rather lulzy to watch, though. :P These fleets can spawn if a particular station is building up quite the excess of supplies, crew and marines.


Im reworking the sprite, so I wouldnt like to see that old kitbash in game, wouldnt put my name under it. :D But.. even when it looks good enough, i dont think It should be present in the mod, as it is rlly OP, that thing was neevr made for balance, just.. fun endgame for the player. Here, i fear it would mess up things, as noone would have anyhting to counter with.

But that'd be the general idea. If a faction is on a roll, or if it's in it's final last stand, then it would roll out it's finest.

And I'd love to see the new Omega.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Nanostrike on July 09, 2013, 08:34:49 AM
Any chance of getting the Tore Up Plenty ships put in as options to start with?

I'd love to use some of those instead of starting with a default Vanilla ship when I use a vanilla faction.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: ciago92 on July 09, 2013, 09:38:33 AM
Any chance of getting the Tore Up Plenty ships put in as options to start with?

I'd love to use some of those instead of starting with a default Vanilla ship when I use a vanilla faction.
I would second this request, the TUP ships are a lot of fun to mess around with
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Cerevox on July 09, 2013, 01:45:11 PM
Aaah you can keep the omega, soon, i'll have a new monster available in my arsenal that can take it on. ::)

Awesome, an arms race between mods to see who can make the OPest ship while still pretending to be legit would be great. And by great I mean hilarious.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 09, 2013, 02:10:59 PM
Well as the Council doesn't try to be vanilla balanced, instead being just that little bit better.... I know who I'm putting my money on, sorry, Valk.  :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Cerevox on July 09, 2013, 02:40:23 PM
Naw, people will build up, do crazy stuff, and then timcorp will fly by and obliterate entire fleets in an instant. There are some truly OP mods out there. No need to imitate them. Also, valk actually has a pretty good shot, the ether driver or whatever their gauss cannon is called is a real monster.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 09, 2013, 03:03:25 PM
Maybe the Ether Driver was tweaked since I last played around with them, but when I messed with it, it was just a weaker Gauss Cannon. Lower DPS, an odd mechanic where it shot slower than it regenerated ammo resulting in a higher listed DPS than it was actually capable of (the sustained DPS was about 20% than normal DPS). It sounded pretty cool and the shots were practically instantaneous hits, but an IFed Cain could perform a similar job with higher overall DPS, flux costs and blinding white/blue flashes of light upon striking a target. Every. Couple. Seconds. God, if you value your eyesight, don't use multiple Cains with the lights turned off. Your screen just whites out and stays like that till the Cains stop shooting.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on July 09, 2013, 10:31:17 PM
Maybe the Ether Driver was tweaked since I last played around with them, but when I messed with it, it was just a weaker Gauss Cannon. Lower DPS, an odd mechanic where it shot slower than it regenerated ammo resulting in a higher listed DPS than it was actually capable of (the sustained DPS was about 20% than normal DPS). It sounded pretty cool and the shots were practically instantaneous hits, but an IFed Cain could perform a similar job with higher overall DPS, flux costs and blinding white/blue flashes of light upon striking a target. Every. Couple. Seconds. God, if you value your eyesight, don't use multiple Cains with the lights turned off. Your screen just whites out and stays like that till the Cains stop shooting.

Cains are nice..

Have you tried multiple hadron accelerators? (the other big cannon from the IF)

It doesn't blind you, but can 2-3 shot an onslaught, where 1 shot overloads it for about 30 seconds..
it fires real slow, and the chargeup is a pain, but dear god it's a beast of a sniper..
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 10, 2013, 02:51:27 AM
Awesome, an arms race between mods to see who can make the OPest ship while still pretending to be legit would be great. And by great I mean hilarious.

Not pretending anything  :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 10, 2013, 04:39:29 AM
Cains are nice..

Have you tried multiple hadron accelerators? (the other big cannon from the IF)

It doesn't blind you, but can 2-3 shot an onslaught, where 1 shot overloads it for about 30 seconds..
it fires real slow, and the chargeup is a pain, but dear god it's a beast of a sniper..
I've always figured anything more than just the one Hadron is overkill, what with that 10k alpha damage. I had one for when I used an Auria in Uz's Corvus, but most of the time it wasn't even mounted unless I was planning on busting capitals all day long. I used 3 on the ballistic variant of the Council Venator, that was pretty silly. 6 on the Unsung, it's just nasty.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on July 10, 2013, 10:13:16 AM
Cains are nice..

Have you tried multiple hadron accelerators? (the other big cannon from the IF)

It doesn't blind you, but can 2-3 shot an onslaught, where 1 shot overloads it for about 30 seconds..
it fires real slow, and the chargeup is a pain, but dear god it's a beast of a sniper..
I've always figured anything more than just the one Hadron is overkill, what with that 10k alpha damage. I had one for when I used an Auria in Uz's Corvus, but most of the time it wasn't even mounted unless I was planning on busting capitals all day long. I used 3 on the ballistic variant of the Council Venator, that was pretty silly. 6 on the Unsung, it's just nasty.

Tbh 6 large turrets of anything on the unsung is nasty.. and that HERP emitter (built in) is just ludicrous..
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Nanostrike on July 10, 2013, 08:33:16 PM
So after playing the mod for a couple days off and on, it started inexplicably slowing the crap out of my computer until I restarted my system.

Is this a common thing?  Cuz I haven't had that with any other mods that I know of yet.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 10, 2013, 09:58:23 PM
So after playing the mod for a couple days off and on, it started inexplicably slowing the crap out of my computer until I restarted my system.

Is this a common thing?  Cuz I haven't had that with any other mods that I know of yet.

As in, slowed the computer down even after you exit starsector? That seems a bit strange.

I have left starsector+Exerelin running for multiple days without any issues, and it would be strange to affect your whole system, not just the starsector executable. I also normally play on a 2011 MacBook air so it's by no means a powerhouse computer :P

Has it happened just one or multiple times? If you haven't already, I would ensure you are running the latest java version.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Nanostrike on July 10, 2013, 11:21:30 PM
So after playing the mod for a couple days off and on, it started inexplicably slowing the crap out of my computer until I restarted my system.

Is this a common thing?  Cuz I haven't had that with any other mods that I know of yet.

As in, slowed the computer down even after you exit starsector? That seems a bit strange.

I have left starsector+Exerelin running for multiple days without any issues, and it would be strange to affect your whole system, not just the starsector executable. I also normally play on a 2011 MacBook air so it's by no means a powerhouse computer :P

Has it happened just one or multiple times? If you haven't already, I would ensure you are running the latest java version.

So far just once.  But apparently Java was trying to update as I was playing so that probably caused some issues...
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Gotcha! on July 11, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
Hi Zaphide,

Apparently you can make supplies/pilots/fuel disappear from stations (to avoid them from stocking up to ridiculous amounts).
Could you teach me how?
Edit: Reading the 0.6 notes tells me that this won't be an issue in the upcoming update. :)

Also, I am peeking through some of your java files and StationRecord.java has a typo at line 60, the word being 'abandonded'.
The horror!


Edit2: Ah, had this thread open in my browser, didn't see you replied. Thanks though.
Glad it gets a vanilla solution because I have no idea how I'd do what you're telling me. :-[
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 11, 2013, 03:20:40 PM
Hi Zaphide,

Apparently you can make supplies/pilots/fuel disappear from stations (to avoid them from stocking up to ridiculous amounts).
Could you teach me how?

Also, I am peeking through some of your java files and StationRecord.java has a typo at line 60, the word being 'abandonded'.
The horror!

Thanks! Shall fix :)

There is a method in ExerelinUtils.java "decreaseCargo" (or similar) that will safely remove an amount of supplies/crew/fuel/marines.

There are also two other methods in ExerelinUtils.java that add ships and weapons, that also have code in each method to remove ships/weapons when they go over 30 at that station.

removeRandomShipsFromCargo()
removeRandomWeaponsFromCargo()

You'll have to call your removing code from something. Some of Exerelins is from a script attached to a fleet assignment, and others from a spawnPoint advance().
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 11, 2013, 10:26:03 PM
... Or StarSector 0.6 will handle it for you :)

Man, having multiple systems will up the complexity of this mod just a bit...
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on July 12, 2013, 12:12:12 AM
... Or StarSector 0.6 will handle it for you :)

Man, having multiple systems will up the complexity of this mod just a bit...

wait, 0.6 has multiple systems?!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Silver Silence on July 12, 2013, 01:49:07 AM
... Or StarSector 0.6 will handle it for you :)

Man, having multiple systems will up the complexity of this mod just a bit...

wait, 0.6 has multiple systems?!

Yeah, check out the new patch notes, dude.  ;)
I can imagine seeing entire systems controlled by single factions.

Also, Sparrow OP (http://scr.hu/0zoz/8qnyk). Zaphide as modpack creator, you shoulld totally fix this.  :P
To be fair, that was my first time (huehue) fighting Sparrows. Having HE-dmg dealing weapons doesn't help shake teleporting frigates off your ass.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Plasmatic on July 12, 2013, 11:17:01 AM
... Or StarSector 0.6 will handle it for you :)

Man, having multiple systems will up the complexity of this mod just a bit...

wait, 0.6 has multiple systems?!

Yeah, check out the new patch notes, dude.  ;)
I can imagine seeing entire systems controlled by single factions.

Also, Sparrow OP (http://scr.hu/0zoz/8qnyk). Zaphide as modpack creator, you shoulld totally fix this.  :P
To be fair, that was my first time (huehue) fighting Sparrows. Having HE-dmg dealing weapons doesn't help shake teleporting frigates off your ass.


I have read them, but I must've missed that part.. *Goes back to reread again*
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Carabus on July 12, 2013, 04:40:28 PM
Also, Sparrow OP (http://scr.hu/0zoz/8qnyk). Zaphide as modpack creator, you shoulld totally fix this.  :P
To be fair, that was my first time (huehue) fighting Sparrows. Having HE-dmg dealing weapons doesn't help shake teleporting frigates off your ass.

I have already made them spawn two times less often in the fleets.
As for their stats MrDavidoff said they are more balanced in next Council version, so we will update them when he releases.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Pentarctagon on July 12, 2013, 05:03:36 PM
I tried using this mod on a fresh install. I enable it, click Play Starsector, and as soon as the loading bar finishes I get this error:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/KKfr3c3.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: The Soldier on July 12, 2013, 05:10:18 PM
You load LazyLib along with it?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 12, 2013, 05:11:16 PM
I tried using this mod on a fresh install. I enable it, click Play Starsector, and as soon as the loading bar finishes I get this error:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/KKfr3c3.png)
[close]

You will need to also load the LazyLib mod (link in the first post in this thread) :)

EDIT: beaten :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Pentarctagon on July 12, 2013, 05:23:17 PM
Awesome, thanks!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.55
Post by: Zaphide on July 16, 2013, 01:56:16 AM
Update time!

Many thanks to Carabus who has joined in with the development of Exerelin :)

Unfortunately it is not save compatible.

https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.56.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.56.zip)

Code
v0.56
- Added asteroid mining fleets for stations
  - Mining fleets go to the nearest asteroid and slowly mine to create supplies
- Added gas mining fleets for stations
  - Mining fleets go to the nearest gas giant and slowly mine to create fuel
- Added escort ships to supply and station attack fleets
  - Extra escorts in wartime
- Added new alliance mechanics
  - If two factions are allied, they must now also each be at war with each others enemies (think coalitions)
  - Once in an alliance, a factions diplomacy is handled by the alliance until they leave the alliance
- Added starting option to set system size at 15000(small), 30000(medium) and 40000(large)
  - An additional asteroid belt is added around star per system size increase
- Added starting option to start with nine other factions
- Added starting option to respawn factions only up to the starting number (will cycle through factions)
- Added starting option to have no asteroid belts (apart from one around the star)

- Changed system to always spawn with an asteroid belt around the star
- Changed system to spawn with at least one gas giant
- Changed Patrol Fleets to take on extra assignments (raid, attack) when at war
- Changed attack, defense and patrol fleets to not have civilian ships
- Changed In System Supply Convoys (spawned form stations) to also deliver ships/weapons if delivering to player stations
- Changed Allied In System Supply Convoys to deliver allied faction ships/weapons if delivering to player stations
- Changed Rebels to always be hostile to Trade Guild

- Fixed a null reference exception with in system supply convoys
- Fixed issue with catastrophic station accidents not occurring
- Fixed (another) issue with ships/weapons not clearing properly on station takeover
- Fixed issue where factions could respawn even though respawn was off
- Fixed issue calculating last faction in certain circumstances
- Fixed issue where trade guild conversions could happen multiple times to same supply fleet
- Fixed issue with stations not updating at the correct rate
- Fixed fleet cost calculation issue
- Fixed issue with trade guild converted fleets not correctly despawning in some situations
- Fixed issue on loading save games not loading the correct settings before doing anything else

- Factions are less likely to declare war on factions that are far away
- Various resource level and transfer amount changes to account for new mining fleets
- Added some missing ships to IFed
- Removed Sparrow as a start ship for Council, and reduced the likelihood of it spawning
- Added cooldown time between system events, and the same system event cannot occur twice in a row
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Silver Silence on July 16, 2013, 02:08:20 AM
Mining fleets sound cool but almost unnecessary as I've never seen stations with supply issues. (Well aside from when I play council who always seem to be on the back foot. >.>)

Liking the idea of the alliances forcing certain allegiances.

Mining fleets sound like they should add some life to the system regardless.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 16, 2013, 02:37:50 AM
Mining fleets sound cool but almost unnecessary as I've never seen stations with supply issues. (Well aside from when I play council who always seem to be on the back foot. >.>)

The other resource amounts were updated to take this into consideration. Now you should see the majority of supplies come from asteroid mining, fuel from gas mining, and crew/marines from supply convoys and generated by the station. Also, a station that is close to a gas giant and/or asteroid belt will obviously have an advantage over one that is far away.

Mining fleets sound like they should add some life to the system regardless.

That's the idea :) It's all a bit bleak and lonely in the depths of space!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: theSONY on July 16, 2013, 04:04:53 AM
is it just me or download isn't working ?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: ValkyriaL on July 16, 2013, 04:32:02 AM
It's not working, but i guess he is still uploading. x)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: The Soldier on July 16, 2013, 05:03:02 AM
And it's working. :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 16, 2013, 05:31:08 AM
Yeah sorry should be all good now :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Nanostrike on July 16, 2013, 01:16:06 PM
After playing the mod for a bit, I have one pretty large criticism:

Getting the needed weapons seems almost completely random and involves a ton of flying in circles or waiting at a planet and hoping a supply shipment gives them to you.

Depending on your faction and starting ship, with their default weapons and the possibility of not getting any weaponry you need to re-outfit your ship, you could be left nearly-useless.

Is there any way to make your faction get more of it's weapons faster or something?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Silver Silence on July 16, 2013, 03:03:49 PM
Omnifactory. Just take one of everything your faction produces and haul it the Omnifactory.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: cell on July 16, 2013, 03:05:09 PM
first of all thank you very much for bringing the community this outstanding mod!

is it possible to remove codex information and main menu background ships for the factions i prevent from spawning?

also are you aware that you included a 50MB Git folder in 0.56? you should probably re-upload.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: cell on July 16, 2013, 03:08:06 PM
Omnifactory. Just take one of everything your faction produces and haul it the Omnifactory.

where is the Omnifactory exactly? is it just the abandoned storage facility? or is it a station literally called "omnifactory"?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Cerevox on July 16, 2013, 03:12:33 PM
You have to select to have it during the initial game options. If it is in the game, then it will be orbiting the same planet as the storage station and is actually called "omnifactory".
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: cell on July 16, 2013, 03:30:33 PM
You have to select to have it during the initial game options. If it is in the game, then it will be orbiting the same planet as the storage station and is actually called "omnifactory".

thanks
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Silver Silence on July 16, 2013, 03:33:52 PM
Omnifactory. Just take one of everything your faction produces and haul it the Omnifactory.

where is the Omnifactory exactly? is it just the abandoned storage facility? or is it a station literally called "omnifactory"?

You have to have selected it at the start of your game, the option should simply be along the lines of "Omnifactory?" to which you answer yes or no. If you answered yes, then once your faction establishes it's first base, your abandoned station will set up in orbit of the nearby planet and the Omnifactory will follow shortly after. Note that the Omnifactory is invisible on your map unless Zaphide changed that in 0.56. If your faction has lost their original base, the Omnifactory and your abandoned station will still be in orbit of that original planet. The station is indeed simply known as the Omnifactory and ships and weapons sold to the Omnifactory will be processed and then constantly reproduced up to a cap. A small weapon would typically be processed in 5 days, then production would start and it would be another 5 days before the first of said weapon is ready to buy. And then every 5 days, another weapon will be produced up to a max of 20 at which point the Omnifactory will stop producing until the supply falls below 20.


Something I've noticed which I thought was cool at the time, the abandoned station and Omnifactory will only set up on planets. If your faction has taken a base orbiting a moon, then the two stations will still set up shop in orbit of the planet that the moon is linked to. Probably to stop 3 huge stations sitting on top of each other in orbit of the moon.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 16, 2013, 03:40:19 PM
After playing the mod for a bit, I have one pretty large criticism:

Getting the needed weapons seems almost completely random and involves a ton of flying in circles or waiting at a planet and hoping a supply shipment gives them to you.

Depending on your faction and starting ship, with their default weapons and the possibility of not getting any weaponry you need to re-outfit your ship, you could be left nearly-useless.

Is there any way to make your faction get more of it's weapons faster or something?

As others have mentioned, the OmniFactory is a good way around this.

EDIT:
One of the best things about moddable mods is you can change it yourself!

In mods/Exerelin/data/scripts/world/exerelin/ExerelinUtils.java:
Code
public static void addWeaponsToCargo(CargoAPI cargo, int count, String factionId, SectorAPI sector)
...
if(factionWeapons.length > 0)
{
for(int i = 0; i < count; i = i + 1)
...
Change the "i < count" to "i < count*2" (for double) or "i < count*3" for triple etc etc. There is a similar method for adding ships that you could change in the same way.

One thing that is irritating is only having frigates with small energy mounts available, and the only weapons available being large ballistics :P Another thing that will wait till StarSector 0.6 to improve.

first of all thank you very much for bringing the community this outstanding mod!

is it possible to remove codex information and main menu background ships for the factions i prevent from spawning?

also are you aware that you included a 50MB Git folder in 0.56? you should probably re-upload.

You're welcome :)

Unfortunately this is not possible. When disabling factions, all the assets for those factions are still included in the game, they just won't spawn.

And yes, I realised when the upload was taking so long :P I will upload a different ZIP later without the hidden Git folder

---snip---
Note that the Omnifactory is invisible on your map unless Zaphide changed that in 0.56.
---snip---

Unfortunately it is still invisible on the map... it should probably be changed at some point...

Something I've noticed which I thought was cool at the time, the abandoned station and Omnifactory will only set up on planets. If your faction has taken a base orbiting a moon, then the two stations will still set up shop in orbit of the planet that the moon is linked to. Probably to stop 3 huge stations sitting on top of each other in orbit of the moon.

Haha this was a result of me being slightly lazy, but then I decided the end result was better :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Nanostrike on July 16, 2013, 09:43:48 PM
I know how to use the Omnifactory and all that.  It's getting that first weapon (Or ship!) that tends to be the problem.

The "Only large ballistics in the shop, but Frigate needs Small Energy weapons" comes up a TON.  As does the problem of having only Kinetic or only HE weapons.

And the problem of needing Frigates/Destroyers, but only having Fighters, Cruisers, and Capital Ships.


It's actually stopped several of my games before they even begin, as my faction will get swarmed and wiped out while I'm stuck in the starter ship with no ability to really rearm it or buy additional Frigates for support.




I like the mod and love the large-scale battles, but this is a pretty constant source of frustration.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 16, 2013, 09:49:09 PM
I know how to use the Omnifactory and all that.  It's getting that first weapon (Or ship!) that tends to be the problem.

The "Only large ballistics in the shop, but Frigate needs Small Energy weapons" comes up a TON.  As does the problem of having only Kinetic or only HE weapons.

And the problem of needing Frigates/Destroyers, but only having Fighters, Cruisers, and Capital Ships.


It's actually stopped several of my games before they even begin, as my faction will get swarmed and wiped out while I'm stuck in the starter ship with no ability to really rearm it or buy additional Frigates for support.




I like the mod and love the large-scale battles, but this is a pretty constant source of frustration.

Perhaps the best solution is to "jump start" the players first station with a few frigates/destroyers and appropriate weapons to get them started?

In my own play throughs this is only really a problem right at the start, as once I start fighting other fleets I normally end up with way too many ships/weapons/money!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Flare on July 16, 2013, 11:30:08 PM
In my games I usually always attack the neighboring faction before things heat up, especially if they're already at war or are a weak faction. It doesn't always mean that my faction doesn't get crushed, but it does seem to give them a better fighting chance especially if the orbits aren't all that favorable.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 17, 2013, 05:50:30 AM
---snip---
also are you aware that you included a 50MB Git folder in 0.56? you should probably re-upload.

I have uploaded a new version without the extra files, comes in at a much more normal 54Mb :)
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.56.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.56.zip)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: eneaunu on July 17, 2013, 11:15:18 AM
Could someone tell me what i gotta do to buy weapons and ships from other factions , at least that are neutral to me .
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Silver Silence on July 17, 2013, 11:57:12 AM
As far as I know, you can't.


Pillage and burn in the quest for lewts.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: cell on July 17, 2013, 02:10:11 PM
when i select a medium system planets get pushed off the map grid and into the black area surrounding it. selecting large results in planets being pushed even further than the black area and some i suspect are not even on the map anymore. is this a known issue? or is this just an unavoidable side effect of modding the system size?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 17, 2013, 03:06:54 PM
Could someone tell me what i gotta do to buy weapons and ships from other factions , at least that are neutral to me .

You can only buy weapons/ships from your factions stations.

when i select a medium system planets get pushed off the map grid and into the black area surrounding it. selecting large results in planets being pushed even further than the black area and some i suspect are not even on the map anymore. is this a known issue? or is this just an unavoidable side effect of modding the system size?

Yeah unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to increase the grid (or remove it entirely) :( The map also doesn't behave 100% correctly outside the grid but it is quite workable. It's not ideal but I figured it was best to leave the option in as I quite like playing with a bit of space between planets.

All planets should still be on the playing map. You will most likely have to move the map around to see them.

Just in case anyone doesn't know, you can right-click and drag on the map screen to look around a bit easier.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: NITROtbomb on July 19, 2013, 04:48:42 AM
I am having a problem where the player faction does not capture stations, but the other factions do, leading to a very imbalanced gameplay... no idea what is wrong :(
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: echosierraalpha on July 19, 2013, 04:57:47 AM
I just installed the mod, and can confirm that the above is true for me as well. :-\ help?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Flare on July 19, 2013, 06:34:18 AM
Are you two also playingbthe interstellar feds?

Also, even when peace has been announced between two factions, station attack fleets still proceed to the ex enemy stations where they attempt to take it over. I once lost the main station to the shadowyards through this trick.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: PCCL on July 19, 2013, 02:31:42 PM
Might be kinda obvious, but this fooled me a few times:

in the beginning of the game we took over a home base, then our atlases would just sit on the station with the mission being proceeding to [target station] and it looks like they're doing nothing when they're in the process of boarding the station

if that's what you guys are seeing, maybe wait a few days (in game ofc) and see if anything happens then?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Shield on July 19, 2013, 02:52:40 PM
sometimes it takes 10 days to capture a station
sometimes it takes 2 days.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: echosierraalpha on July 19, 2013, 05:09:38 PM
For the record, yes, I was playing as the interstellar feds. the main problem is not capturing stations per se. the problem is that the feds never deploy station capturing atlases at all for me.  :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 19, 2013, 05:15:29 PM
For the record, yes, I was playing as the interstellar feds. the main problem is not capturing stations per se. the problem is that the feds never deploy station capturing atlases at all for me.  :P

Damn, there is a bug with IFed station attack fleets causing them to despawn immediately. I have another couple of fixes as well so I'll create a new version today sometime to fix it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention :)

Also, even when peace has been announced between two factions, station attack fleets still proceed to the ex enemy stations where they attempt to take it over. I once lost the main station to the shadowyards through this trick.

Hmmm this shouldn't happen. I'll check it out.

sometimes it takes 10 days to capture a station
sometimes it takes 2 days.

Yeah station capture is currently a random time (it's kind of a placeholder until something better is developed).
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.56
Post by: Zaphide on July 20, 2013, 03:22:48 AM
Okay, more update fun times :)
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.57.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.57.zip)
Unfortunately it is not save compatible.

Mainly this is going out as a bugfix but I had a couple of new things so I've included them too:

Player Mining
Players can now mine for supplies (asteroids) and fuel (gas giants). To mine, your fleet will need 1 or more mining drone wings. Click on the asteroid/planet and once your fleet centred on the asteroid/planet you will mine (50 x number of mining drone wings) of supplies/fuel per day.

The storage facility contains 2 mining drone wings when it is built.

Diplomacy Items
Two new items have been added that appear at the Storage Facility from time to time. An 'Agent' who can be traded to another factions station to incite a disagreement between them and another faction (a chance of it backfiring!), and a "Prisoner Of War" who can be traded to another factions station to increase your factions standing with that faction. It may take a couple of game days for factions to notice your trades.

Generally, the relationship changes are not enough to move a faction from war -> peace (or similar) but can make the difference in edge cases. It may be best to save up these items for a rainy day :)

The storage facility contains 2 POW's and 2 agents when it is built.

Code
v0.57
- Added 'prisoner of war' item that can be traded to other factions to increase relationship
- Added 'agent' item that can be traded to other factions to cause a rift between 2 factions (10% chance to backfire)
- Added player mining for fuel (gas planets) and supplies (asteroids)

- Changed neutral colour to tradeguild colour

- Fixed IFed station attack fleets not passing isValidStationAttackFleet check
- Fixed bug with distance based relationship calculation
- Fixed message missing from Alliance Betrayal if only 2 in alliance
- Fixed bug when player attacked one of their allies, not correctly handling alliance

- Alliance Betrayal is now less likely
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Cerevox on July 20, 2013, 11:39:21 AM
This is awesome. Not even kinda awesome, or sorta awesome. This is just straight up awesome. I can only imagine that soon enough we will be building our fleets/weapons/stations and once .6 comes out we will be building entire empires.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Zantiszar on July 20, 2013, 11:40:14 AM
Just one question how will we get more PoW and agents ? will they spawn x amount of times or are they random drops ?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Zaphide on July 20, 2013, 03:02:43 PM
Just one question how will we get more PoW and agents ? will they spawn x amount of times or are they random drops ?

There will spawn from time to time at the Storage Facility (you will get a message notifying you when this happens).
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: eneaunu on July 21, 2013, 01:41:58 PM
EDIT : Problem solved , i deleted lazylib folder , and installed it again .
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Silver Silence on July 21, 2013, 02:50:47 PM
Would appear you are missing LazyLib (http://www.mediafire.com/file/e2sfsfems6lih57/LazyLib_1.4.zip).

Try grabbing that and enabling it along side Exerelin.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: cell on July 21, 2013, 03:15:27 PM
awesome work! the mining and diplomacy additions are great.

i found a very minor "bug" if you can even call it that. in the game launcher where you select your mods 0.57 is displayed as 0.56 and 0.56 is displayed as 0.55.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Zaphide on July 21, 2013, 03:42:22 PM
awesome work! the mining and diplomacy additions are great.

i found a very minor "bug" if you can even call it that. in the game launcher where you select your mods 0.57 is displayed as 0.56 and 0.56 is displayed as 0.55.

Thanks I'll fix it up for the next versions :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Cerevox on July 21, 2013, 10:21:16 PM
It can have the best changelog ever.



Version .57

-Incremented version number
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Fishst on July 22, 2013, 10:26:37 AM
If I may make a suggestions, would it be possible to put some kind of way to show another fleet's alliance before it comes into view? For example, a small toggle-eable window that shows the current diplomacy states with the fleets in-system (Hostile/Neutral/Alliance/Friendly), or a tooltip when hovering over a faction's fleet?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Fishst on July 22, 2013, 02:02:18 PM
Additionally: a manual trigger for station attack fleets to attack a point would be great. It's kind of annoying seeing station fleets depart for utter failure when you have another faction's station locked down with fleets.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: zaszella on July 23, 2013, 04:15:36 AM
Some suggestions.
Suggestion A:Faction conquer a station by a lot of 'Attack Fleet'(include player fleet or not).If a station is  attacked by 4-8 more Attack Fleet and its Defend Fleet is less than 2.If this situation last 5-10 days,then this station will be lost.
Reason of A-1:This can make player's fleet more (a bit) useful on station attack/defend instand of just killing fleets.
Reason of A-2:I can't be patient by waiting for a stupid/slow/weak fleet to attack a station!

Suggestion B:Will you add a special faction just like TradeGuild which is used as 'Pirate'?Not the faction appears in original statrsector,but a faction hostle to all other factions.It will appears sometime by time/by some math fuction/by otherthings you like.It will attack mining fleet,supply fleet or even station!If a station is conquer by them,then this station will be abaddon.
Reason of B-1:Add something that 'unexpected/surprising/WTF!'.
Reason of B-2:There must be some crazy guy.Carzy than rebel.They just want supply/ship/win/yourlife.
Reason of B-3:My Fleet is powerful!No one can Defeat Me!I am the Dominator!!!!!Wait?Who is that???
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Chronosfear on July 23, 2013, 10:15:57 AM
+ for A
+ for B

just my 2cent ^^
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: sirboomalot on July 23, 2013, 11:25:44 AM
A rare raider from out of the system that's hostile to all? I like it.

As for the first idea, I kinda think that it should be kept with the atlas fleet. Shift can be held to speed up time when there is a bit of distance for the fleet to travel.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Ravendarke on July 23, 2013, 11:32:31 AM
A rare raider from out of the system that's hostile to all? I like it.

As for the first idea, I kinda think that it should be kept with the atlas fleet. Shift can be held to speed up time when there is a bit of distance for the fleet to travel.

That´s the part of what I am working on for some time.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: sirboomalot on July 23, 2013, 03:55:05 PM
Oops, found a bug. A faction previously neutral to me joined an alliance with an enemy faction, and sent attackers and boarders to my station without actually changing to hostile.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Cerevox on July 23, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
If you attack a member of your own alliance, the alliance decalres war on itself, and the attacked member leaves and becomes hostile to the alliance. If the alliance has 3 or more members, the non-attack members and your faction stay in, but the other non-you members become hostile. Its, very strange.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: zaszella on July 24, 2013, 06:02:23 AM
Oops, found a bug. A faction previously neutral to me joined an alliance with an enemy faction, and sent attackers and boarders to my station without actually changing to hostile.
I notice this too.If faction A has on war with faction B,then faction C(neutral to A&B) found an alliance with A/B.Then C will send fleet to attack B/A's station.But C will not hostile to any one.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Zaphide on July 24, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
If I may make a suggestions, would it be possible to put some kind of way to show another fleet's alliance before it comes into view? For example, a small toggle-eable window that shows the current diplomacy states with the fleets in-system (Hostile/Neutral/Alliance/Friendly), or a tooltip when hovering over a faction's fleet?

Not yet, but perhaps with StarSector 0.6 :)

Additionally: a manual trigger for station attack fleets to attack a point would be great. It's kind of annoying seeing station fleets depart for utter failure when you have another faction's station locked down with fleets.

Yes, StarSector 0.6 might allow me to implement this the way I want. Otherwise, I might just end up adding a item like "attack beacon" that you can place at a station to cause your ships to target there. We'll see.

Some suggestions.
Suggestion A:Faction conquer a station by a lot of 'Attack Fleet'(include player fleet or not).If a station is  attacked by 4-8 more Attack Fleet and its Defend Fleet is less than 2.If this situation last 5-10 days,then this station will be lost.
Reason of A-1:This can make player's fleet more (a bit) useful on station attack/defend instand of just killing fleets.
Reason of A-2:I can't be patient by waiting for a stupid/slow/weak fleet to attack a station!

Suggestion B:Will you add a special faction just like TradeGuild which is used as 'Pirate'?Not the faction appears in original statrsector,but a faction hostle to all other factions.It will appears sometime by time/by some math fuction/by otherthings you like.It will attack mining fleet,supply fleet or even station!If a station is conquer by them,then this station will be abaddon.
Reason of B-1:Add something that 'unexpected/surprising/WTF!'.
Reason of B-2:There must be some crazy guy.Carzy than rebel.They just want supply/ship/win/yourlife.
Reason of B-3:My Fleet is powerful!No one can Defeat Me!I am the Dominator!!!!!Wait?Who is that???

Suggestion A: Yes, the station takeover process will get a large revamp at some point that will include a method for the player to take over stations. I suspect the idea of specific boarding fleets will carry through (I like the idea of having to outfit your fleet especially for station boarding) but we'll see.

Suggestion B: I was thinking about this the other day :) It probably won't happen to after StarSector 0.6 but there will be a faction (or a number/group of factions) that will perform the role of a universal aggressor. Think the Shakuri in Distant Worlds.

Oops, found a bug. A faction previously neutral to me joined an alliance with an enemy faction, and sent attackers and boarders to my station without actually changing to hostile.

Thanks, I'll put up a fix soon.

If you attack a member of your own alliance, the alliance decalres war on itself, and the attacked member leaves and becomes hostile to the alliance. If the alliance has 3 or more members, the non-attack members and your faction stay in, but the other non-you members become hostile. Its, very strange.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Just out of curiosity, are you playing with the latest version (0.57)? (unfortunately I forgot to change the version number in the mod so both 0.56 and 0.57 both come up as 0.56 :P so if not sure it may be best to re-download the mod files from the 0.57 link)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Cerevox on July 24, 2013, 03:28:57 PM
I always download whatever the latest version is, so I think that was on the latest version, but I can't be sure. It happened a little while ago. But the alliance was actually naming itself, so I assume that is latest.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Zaphide on July 24, 2013, 03:39:30 PM
I always download whatever the latest version is, so I think that was on the latest version, but I can't be sure. It happened a little while ago. But the alliance was actually naming itself, so I assume that is latest.

0.56 & 0.57 do that, But I will check it out anyways :) note to self, don't mess up version numbers :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.57
Post by: Zaphide on July 26, 2013, 07:48:10 PM
Another update, this one should be save compatible :)

https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.58.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_0.58.zip)

Main change is bug fixes to alliance changes not being applied properly.

I also added support for running Gotcha's Bushi (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6413.0) and Hiigaran Descendants (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6347.0) faction mods in conjunction with Exerelin. The other mods need to be installed alongside Exerelin and ticked in the StarSector launcher.

I think this is a better approach as other mods can be updated/changed/removed without requiring Exerelin to be changed. I will probably move to this style with most of the other factions in Exerelin eventually. It is also a lot easier than merging everything with Exerelin :)

Code
v0.58
 - Added small possibility of industrial ships (and mining wings) appearing in stations
 - Added support for running the Bushi and Hiigaran Descendants mods in conjunction with Exerelin

 - Changed Exerelin to no longer be a total conversion to support above change

 - Fixed possible duplicate station names
 - Fixed issue with StarSector FactionAPI's not getting updated properly on Exerelin alliance changes

 - Changed SyndicateASP mining fleet to 2 drone wings, two transports
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: zaszella on July 27, 2013, 07:55:08 AM
Bushi and Hiigaran?That is great.
Even I want to make a mod to add in Exerelin.But I can't draw a 'beautiful" ship... :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Admiral Loverod on July 27, 2013, 11:59:00 AM
I want to start by saying that this is a very good mod, and I can tell a lot of work has gone into it. It's just awesome in general, and feels very full featured.

I've been having a problem, though. My games don't want to load. If I try to load a save game it gets most of the way down the bar, then stops moving entirely. It's not a problem between different versions; all my games are from .58. I've been thinking it could be a problem with running the mod on a mac, but I don't really know.

Any help is much appreciated  ;D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 27, 2013, 02:54:46 PM
I want to start by saying that this is a very good mod, and I can tell a lot of work has gone into it. It's just awesome in general, and feels very full featured.

I've been having a problem, though. My games don't want to load. If I try to load a save game it gets most of the way down the bar, then stops moving entirely. It's not a problem between different versions; all my games are from .58. I've been thinking it could be a problem with running the mod on a mac, but I don't really know.

Any help is much appreciated  ;D

Hi Vlitzen,

Thank you for the praise :)

The load game issue is a fairly common one and can be somewhat solved by changing the memory levels allocated to StarSector. See the following for details:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1822.msg102996#msg102996 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1822.msg102996#msg102996)

Changing the lower and upper memory levels to 512/512 or 1024/1024 seem to have helped a lot of people.

Unfortunately it is an issue with StarSector itself and usually only occurs when a lot of textures are loaded (like in a compilation mod like Exerelin). By increasing the memory it only really extends the game time, and it will eventually hit the same wall. If you continue to have issues I would perhaps limit the number of other factions (in the options at the start of a new game) to 1/3/6.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 28, 2013, 03:00:15 PM
In case anyone prefers this, I have setup a (DEV) version of the mod that does not contain any extra factions:
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip)

It will support the factions that are included in the normal version (except for Relics) but you will need to download them separately and run concurrently. A couple of factions were slightly amended for use in Exerelin so the experience may not be quite the same.

This version will also support the Tore Up Plenty additional starting ships. Tore Up Plenty also needs to be downloaded separately and run concurrently.

The main reason for this version is if you are having trouble with memory constraints and/or save game issues, you can pick and choose which factions get loaded into StarSector, which should reduce the errors. The downside is it is not a single download.

EDIT: I probably should add that this version is similar to a DEV version, there may be some rough edges :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on July 28, 2013, 05:34:47 PM
Maintaining two versions of the mod sounds like it could become quite a chore, but at the same time, I kinda like this idea of Exerelin with no additional factions.

The way I see it (with my limited (read: no) experience of Java), one could set up a sort of framework for the factions to fill. So then, if the faction is present, Exerelin has all the fleets for that faction all laid out with no need to mess around on the part of the user. This would make it easier than the current system of having to manually integrate the faction and set up it's fleets appropriately as it's already been done by you, Zaphide. The problem my limited experience sees, is that when the faction's not present, all this extra code is referring to non-existent stuff, which will make Starsector go "OHGODWHY" and spit out errors and crashes. See any sort of typo in variant and faction files for such errors. Again, my limited experience figures that a check could be made that hopefully doesn't throw an error. If a faction is present, load it's framework, if no such faction is present, then this is not the code you are looking for.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 28, 2013, 08:28:00 PM
Maintaining two versions of the mod sounds like it could become quite a chore, but at the same time, I kinda like this idea of Exerelin with no additional factions.

The way I see it (with my limited (read: no) experience of Java), one could set up a sort of framework for the factions to fill. So then, if the faction is present, Exerelin has all the fleets for that faction all laid out with no need to mess around on the part of the user. This would make it easier than the current system of having to manually integrate the faction and set up it's fleets appropriately as it's already been done by you, Zaphide. The problem my limited experience sees, is that when the faction's not present, all this extra code is referring to non-existent stuff, which will make Starsector go "OHGODWHY" and spit out errors and crashes. See any sort of typo in variant and faction files for such errors. Again, my limited experience figures that a check could be made that hopefully doesn't throw an error. If a faction is present, load it's framework, if no such faction is present, then this is not the code you are looking for.

This is exactly how it works already :) Exerelin is just a framework, there is no faction specific code. To create a no modded factions version all I have done is remove the other mods texture and resource files. There are a few extra lines of code to detect whether a mod is installed but that's it. Maintaining the two versions will be simple :)

The no included factions version still supports the other factions, you just have to run both mods together. No extra changes are required by the user :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on July 28, 2013, 08:30:47 PM
I think I will still continue to play just using the full download of Exerelin, but it'll be good for the people who cry OP in the direction of the Neutrino or the Council. I also really need to play Exerelin with the Hiigarans and the Bushi involved. I've yet to try the Bushi and now might be a good a time as any.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 28, 2013, 08:39:02 PM
I think I will still continue to play just using the full download of Exerelin, but it'll be good for the people who cry OP in the direction of the Neutrino or the Council. I also really need to play Exerelin with the Hiigarans and the Bushi involved. I've yet to try the Bushi and now might be a good a time as any.

Yeah I suspect the single download will still be the most used version. The no included factions is also an option for those that suffer from crashes :(

The Bushi are great :) I haven't played with the Hiigarans much though.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on July 28, 2013, 09:11:43 PM
I've had a second to take a look at this.

It's neat; the extended way you've generated and manage the System, alliances and all that is great.  It's a lot cleaner than my early attempts and certainly a lot more complete.

What files would I have to change to make my factions, weapons and other things fit into the mod's framework?  I'm rather interested in seeing what it's like to have a three-way war with the Glaug and seeing the bases change hands and so forth.

The main issue here is that what I've got is not a faction mod.  I basically built a TC but it's mainly concerned with completely starting over again, in terms of weapon balance and physics and a bunch of other core stuff; none of what I've got plays very nicely with others. 

What would I need to hack to get that done, and if I do it, can I release it?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on July 29, 2013, 01:08:18 AM
I got it done- not too hard, really :) 

I need to hack in the ShipLists / WeaponList methods I was using to give each Faction unique ships / weapons (it's really easier to keep those files separated for easier maintenance; can't wait 'til we can make Faction tags part of JSON descriptors and read them from the files without having to build lists all the time, but it's working at a basic level.  I also need to adjust the fleets and suchlike; the different factions have unique fleets now, with all 4 of the core Factions using unique ship lists. 

A few questions:

1.  My character joined Hegemony. Now my fleet is Hegemony brown; it's hard to see when lots of Hegemony fleets are around.  Is there any way to fix that?
2.  Shouldn't mining asteroids generate a unique resource?
3.  How is capturing of Stations triggered?  Is it the presence of the Atlas in the fleet, or just the named fleet being within X distance?  I'd rather have more realistic attacking fleets so that attack / defense matchups were a little different.
4.  One idea I've had for a while is that each Station should have a fleet that is forced to stay put at its position, keeping the player out of bases that are hostile to them.  This would make joining a side a bit more interesting, because we couldn't just go to a hostile base and buy / sell ships and guns; the current penalty of merely not being allowed to insta-repair is far too lenient, imo. 

Any ideas about how to get this done?  I thought about doing an iterator and just matching up the nearest Station that's of the same Faction, then moving the fleet to the Station's location but I'm not sure where your timing loop is and this has to be done every frame.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 29, 2013, 01:31:02 AM
I've had a second to take a look at this.

It's neat; the extended way you've generated and manage the System, alliances and all that is great.  It's a lot cleaner than my early attempts and certainly a lot more complete.

What files would I have to change to make my factions, weapons and other things fit into the mod's framework?  I'm rather interested in seeing what it's like to have a three-way war with the Glaug and seeing the bases change hands and so forth.

The main issue here is that what I've got is not a faction mod.  I basically built a TC but it's mainly concerned with completely starting over again, in terms of weapon balance and physics and a bunch of other core stuff; none of what I've got plays very nicely with others. 

What would I need to hack to get that done, and if I do it, can I release it?

Yeah I'm fairly happy with the approach. There's still a few bits here and there which aren't great but it's mainly because I haven't fixed them up and/or can't fix yet.

You will only run into issues if you rely on generators (as Exerelin overrides generators.csv) and any initial character stuff (as Exerelin overrides CharacterCreationPluginImpl.java). If you can avoid this, then you should be able to run the mods side by side. If you want to change these then you will need to merge the two mods.

Apart from those two, everything else should be fairly straightforward :) Exerelin only really changes the campaign level stuff.

Start from the factions not included version of Exerelin, as it has removed most of the extra assets (that you probably don't want):
 - Add your factions to ExerelinData.java
   - You can add it to the array of possibleFactions (remove the other factions if you don't want them)
   - Or you can add a check for a class from your mod to addModdedFactionsToList() and add the appropriate faction ID's if that class is loaded
 - Add your faction specific weapon sets to ExerelinUtils.getFactionWeapons()
  - If you don't, it will just add randoms
 - ExerelinUtils.isCapitalInFleet() checks for atlas-like ship specs for station takeover fleets so you may need to add your equivalents to that
 - There are a few of other methods at the bottom of ExerelinUtils to do with mining checks you may want to add more ship specs too
   - Depends on how much you are changing
 - Check ExerelinUtils.addRandomFactionShipsToCargo() in case you need to add exceptions to translate from ship spec to hull spec
  - There are some examples already in there
 - Finally, add the Exerelin specific fleets to your faction file
  - See the blackrock, bushi or hiigaran ones for the best examples

A while back I had Exerelin merged with Ironclads and it worked fairly well :)

Feel free to release it but maybe just credit :)

Haha beaten :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Okim on July 29, 2013, 01:40:56 AM
Hmm. With Ironclads you say. So its possible to run these two mods? Interesting ))
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 29, 2013, 02:01:20 AM
I got it done- not too hard, really :) 

I need to hack in the ShipLists / WeaponList methods I was using to give each Faction unique ships / weapons (it's really easier to keep those files separated for easier maintenance; can't wait 'til we can make Faction tags part of JSON descriptors and read them from the files without having to build lists all the time, but it's working at a basic level.  I also need to adjust the fleets and suchlike; the different factions have unique fleets now, with all 4 of the core Factions using unique ship lists. 

A few questions:

1.  My character joined Hegemony. Now my fleet is Hegemony brown; it's hard to see when lots of Hegemony fleets are around.  Is there any way to fix that?
2.  Shouldn't mining asteroids generate a unique resource?
3.  How is capturing of Stations triggered?  Is it the presence of the Atlas in the fleet, or just the named fleet being within X distance?  I'd rather have more realistic attacking fleets so that attack / defense matchups were a little different.
4.  One idea I've had for a while is that each Station should have a fleet that is forced to stay put at its position, keeping the player out of bases that are hostile to them.  This would make joining a side a bit more interesting, because we couldn't just go to a hostile base and buy / sell ships and guns; the current penalty of merely not being allowed to insta-repair is far too lenient, imo. 

Any ideas about how to get this done?  I thought about doing an iterator and just matching up the nearest Station that's of the same Faction, then moving the fleet to the Station's location but I'm not sure where your timing loop is and this has to be done every frame.

1. Sorry but that is pretty systemic to the whole framework. The player fleet is actually part of that faction, rather than the player faction. It just makes everything a lot easier that way. I had it the other way round initially but there was a lot of exception code all over the place :P
2. Maybe, but I didn't really think it would add too much depth. If there was actually a construction part of the game implemented then I think it could be worthwhile.
3. There are specific fleets that do station takeovers, see InSystemStationAttackShipSpawnPoint.java. Each station has one of these spawnpoints.
4. Nice idea :) Agree with the too lenient, I guess I'm a bit wary doing something like this in case Alex includes this kind of thing in StarSector 0.6 (which I think should be possible by changing the interaction dialogs)

To implement the last idea I would probably just create another spawnpoint for each station that spawns one fleet that then just has a loop (see InSystemStationAttackShipSpawnPoint.java or GasMiningFleetSpawnPoint.java for examples) to go to their anchor station. Essentially a while(true) :P

One thing I have noticed is that cycling through every asteroid, planet, station etc. to calculate distances is pretty slow, which is why each station actually calculates targets for fleets for that station, and it only updates every few days or so.

Hmm. With Ironclads you say. So its possible to run these two mods? Interesting ))

It is :) but there is a bit of work involved. Same approach for Ironclads as I set out above for Xeno's mod. It depends on whether your happy with the total randomness system generation. If you wanted to just use the diplomacy and fleet stuff, then it would be a bit more work (mainly just changing the SectorGen.java file but still...)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: cell on July 29, 2013, 05:07:18 AM
In case anyone prefers this, I have setup a (DEV) version of the mod that does not contain any extra factions:
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip)

thanks for this. exactly what i wanted. the only "bug" ive noticed so far is that when starting a new game all the portraits are missing except for the default one. theres also a bunch of faction specific Atlas left in the codex, but im assuming that was left for compatibility.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on July 29, 2013, 09:02:11 AM
Quote
1. Sorry but that is pretty systemic to the whole framework. The player fleet is actually part of that faction, rather than the player faction. It just makes everything a lot easier that way. I had it the other way round initially but there was a lot of exception code all over the place :P
Perhaps a faux "fleet", neutral to everybody but with a green color like the player's, should be spawned, then forced to stay at the player fleet's location?  They could have some sort of marker vessel type that gave them more FP than the player, keeping their ring a little bigger?  Not quite sure how to go about it, but it's a thought about how to handle this visually.  I don't think that in 0.6 we're going to be able to code UI elements that can constantly float over the rest of the game, so this might work.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 29, 2013, 02:58:51 PM
Quote
1. Sorry but that is pretty systemic to the whole framework. The player fleet is actually part of that faction, rather than the player faction. It just makes everything a lot easier that way. I had it the other way round initially but there was a lot of exception code all over the place :P
Perhaps a faux "fleet", neutral to everybody but with a green color like the player's, should be spawned, then forced to stay at the player fleet's location?  They could have some sort of marker vessel type that gave them more FP than the player, keeping their ring a little bigger?  Not quite sure how to go about it, but it's a thought about how to handle this visually.  I don't think that in 0.6 we're going to be able to code UI elements that can constantly float over the rest of the game, so this might work.

Maybe, but I think it would be difficult to get right, and unfortunately you could always just click on the fleet and it would bring up the comm dialog box which would be annoying.

I haven't really had troubles determining which fleet is mine. It is always the center of screen and if you hover your mouse over it no fleet info box comes up :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 29, 2013, 02:59:53 PM
In case anyone prefers this, I have setup a (DEV) version of the mod that does not contain any extra factions:
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.58.zip)

thanks for this. exactly what i wanted. the only "bug" ive noticed so far is that when starting a new game all the portraits are missing except for the default one. theres also a bunch of faction specific Atlas left in the codex, but im assuming that was left for compatibility.

Yeah no idea why the portraits are missing. Hopefully I will find a fix soon :)

Yep the atlasi (hah) are there for compatability.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: enigma74 on July 29, 2013, 11:27:31 PM
I just wanted to say, thank you for this mod!!!  It really scratched that "mount and blade" itch, but with spaceships.  I hope the vanilla game actually turns out to be something like this mod.

I also had some problems with running out of memory, but using Java 7 64-bit and upping the memory 800m (800 megabytes) seemed to solve the problem.  I'm actually running starsector on a laptop with an integrated graphics card, I'm surprised it works.  However, I can't go above small map size and 5 starbases, haha.

Also, council ships are totally overpowered.  Starting frigate starts with 80 ordanance....before adding in character bonuses.  I used the frigate to win the map, I didn't even bother to upgrade even when I got heavier ships.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on July 30, 2013, 03:40:10 AM
Also, council ships are totally overpowered.  Starting frigate starts with 80 ordanance....before adding in character bonuses.  I used the frigate to win the map, I didn't even bother to upgrade even when I got heavier ships.

(http://dashie.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw9256-1355596323292.gif)

You can whup their asses just as easily as everything else in Exerelin. The Defender's guns are being nerfed (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2820.msg88674#msg88674). The only thing that stands to prove annoying is the Spearhead Frigate, which is a much improved Hyperion with the triple laser cannon that makes it very difficult to get off your back without support. And as I do not fly with support (I almost always fly a solo battleship), I always endeavour to pick out such targets first.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 30, 2013, 04:57:07 AM
I just wanted to say, thank you for this mod!!!  It really scratched that "mount and blade" itch, but with spaceships.  I hope the vanilla game actually turns out to be something like this mod.

Your welcome :) I suspect the vanilla game will go well and truly above and beyond this mod :)

I also had some problems with running out of memory, but using Java 7 64-bit and upping the memory 800m (800 megabytes) seemed to solve the problem.  I'm actually running starsector on a laptop with an integrated graphics card, I'm surprised it works.  However, I can't go above small map size and 5 starbases, haha.

Interesting, I assumed the numbers had to be powers of 2.

Also, council ships are totally overpowered.  Starting frigate starts with 80 ordanance....before adding in character bonuses.  I used the frigate to win the map, I didn't even bother to upgrade even when I got heavier ships.

Silver Silence is on the case :P

Still, the council ships tend to display their more OP-nature in the hands of the user and the extra skills.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on July 30, 2013, 07:13:44 AM
Even without the extra skills, you can start a game as the Council, pick up a Defender, chuck on the Unstable Injector and you have a ship that's almost as fragile as the Hyperion but has the firepower of a destroyer or light cruiser focused into it's two main laser cannons and the speed to run rings around most capitals you'll encounter. And that's just at the start of the game. Even with such power, you can't relax though. A single Pilum hit is often enough to knock out the engines and leave you adrift for quite some time along with trashing like half the Defender's armour. And I don't mean it got through half the armour. I mean it got through -all- the armour and it got through so much armour that only the wingtips on the oppposite end of where you where struck still have armour intact. I've been shot down so many times by a good Pilum hit when not going full speed and having to sit and watch a Lasher cautiously twirl around me while going pewpewpew with autocannons till I asplode. The best one was probably facehugging a Buffalo with the shields lowered because it was nearly dead and the Buffalo won the fight with a single AM-Blaster shot to the face. And all I can do is sit there and giggle like a child at the fact that what's usually cannon fodder for 99% of the ships in the game just handed my ass to me, with it's engines out and on like 5% HP.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 30, 2013, 07:41:09 AM
For once I would be happy, if ppl actually called the faction by its name, Ive come up with.. nothing mayor, just.. details  :D

Theere has been enough said about this, please be patient till next update, then we can tweak balance on further. Minor note,
Ive neevr noticed ppl writting down how hard its to beat the Old Council Loyalists( :P ) they are suposed to be an enemy to
fight agaisnt, not an easy one, playing with them, yeah..  ;)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on July 30, 2013, 07:44:31 AM
Which would you prefer, Davidoff? Council? Or Loyalists? Or the full Council Loyalists name?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 30, 2013, 08:03:16 AM
Which would you prefer, Davidoff? Council? Or Loyalists? Or the full Council Loyalists name?

I would settle even with OCL  :D Loyalists would do, um.. dont wanna go offtopic, but essentially.

Spoiler
"description":"The Council loyalists are made up of volunteers from across the entire sector, with the bulk of this force made up of formal Hegemony officers, space marines, ship personal etc, who felt that they have no future inside the Hegemony, or simply lost faith in the old order of things, that has allowed the sector to survive for millenia and saved it from falling into total chaos. Others were volunteers from various law-enforcing agencies, independent traders or simple civilians, who grew tired of their every day struggle, filled with constant fear of death and fight for survival. Those who lose faith and see no light at the end of the tunnel were mesmerized, when they saw the Old Council Remnant Armada reappearing out from hyperspace and the technologies they brought along with them. To all these people the service under the Old Remnant offered a new hope and focus, to restore order. Most of them were easily persuaded to join the Council Loyalists, as the Old Council Remnant called them."
[close]

The Loyalists are recruited "fodder"(to put it bluntly) from the known sectors of Starfarer, the ships, weapons they use are given to them by the OCR, Old Council Remnant.
(Remnant isnt present anywhere, till we can have new sectors modded in, the "lore" was made, to put essentially a "foreign" technology into the otherwise ruined sectors)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 30, 2013, 02:18:14 PM
Which would you prefer, Davidoff? Council? Or Loyalists? Or the full Council Loyalists name?

I would settle even with OCL  :D Loyalists would do, um.. dont wanna go offtopic, but essentially.

Spoiler
"description":"The Council loyalists are made up of volunteers from across the entire sector, with the bulk of this force made up of formal Hegemony officers, space marines, ship personal etc, who felt that they have no future inside the Hegemony, or simply lost faith in the old order of things, that has allowed the sector to survive for millenia and saved it from falling into total chaos. Others were volunteers from various law-enforcing agencies, independent traders or simple civilians, who grew tired of their every day struggle, filled with constant fear of death and fight for survival. Those who lose faith and see no light at the end of the tunnel were mesmerized, when they saw the Old Council Remnant Armada reappearing out from hyperspace and the technologies they brought along with them. To all these people the service under the Old Remnant offered a new hope and focus, to restore order. Most of them were easily persuaded to join the Council Loyalists, as the Old Council Remnant called them."
[close]

The Loyalists are recruited "fodder"(to put it bluntly) from the known sectors of Starfarer, the ships, weapons they use are given to them by the OCR, Old Council Remnant.
(Remnant isnt present anywhere, till we can have new sectors modded in, the "lore" was made, to put essentially a "foreign" technology into the otherwise ruined sectors)

Ah OK, this is mostly my fault  :-[ I got confused when adding them between Hegemony Core (which is used a bit in the code) and Council Loyalists. I kind of combined Hegemony Core and Council Loyalists names in my head to mean a core of the Hegemony that was the Council. I should have read closer.

I will change the factionID to councilLoyalists. For technical reasons, the factionId has to match faction name so unfortunately it looks a bit ugly. Hopefully I can change that in StarSector 0.6.

And yeah, IMO I wouldn't worry too much about their balance (outside of a couple of obvious ships :P ). I hardly ever play as them, mainly be cause it does become very easy. But playing against them, yeah that is much more fun than mowing down pirate fleet after pirate fleet in +50% OP TriTachyon ships. Perhaps they should be a non-playable faction? But I like options... hmmm... :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MrDavidoff on July 30, 2013, 04:25:08 PM
Ah OK, this is mostly my fault  :-[ I got confused when adding them between Hegemony Core (which is used a bit in the code) and Council Loyalists. I kind of combined Hegemony Core and Council Loyalists names in my head to mean a core of the Hegemony that was the Council. I should have read closer.

Well, then technically its my fault, because loong ago, before I had any sprites done I actually used the faction ID hegemony_core for testing, made the "lore" faction names much later on, but I was lazy to change the ID since then.  :-X

Making them unplayable faction would essentially lock the games difficulty on "hard", if they were present, which would serve the purpose, but also I think it would escalate the hate :D and.. i laos prefer to have options :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Fishst on July 31, 2013, 02:28:50 AM
Has the bug when playing with ISF been resolved so that they make actual station attack fleets now?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 31, 2013, 03:14:26 AM
Has the bug when playing with ISF been resolved so that they make actual station attack fleets now?

Yes :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Fishst on July 31, 2013, 04:28:01 AM
Has the bug when playing with ISF been resolved so that they make actual station attack fleets now?

Yes :)

huzzah!

My first foray into exerelion was with ISF and not being able to assault extra stations was bugging me :).
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on July 31, 2013, 10:12:57 AM
@Zaphide:

1.  Thanks so much for allowing me to release my mod of your mod, I'm very excited about it, it's already playing very well.
2.  I wrote up new code that:
A. Gives Factions a ship-list they use internally when determining what to put into their inventories.  Same with weapons; an external file for mod-specific stuff means easier maintenance and potentially mods could be built with an Exerelin-compatible config, so that Exerelin does not need to have any internal references to Factions at all any more (well, provided that the mod authors don't do certain bad things with names).
B. Gives the mod a unique substance to mine (called "Germanium"- it's both a real thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanium) and it's a very old sci-fi reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_in_Flight)).
C. Tweaks how the Factions work a bit.  Still working on that one.  Basically, I am trying to get the Station-defense idea working.

3.  Some ideas about how to further enhance the gameplay:
A.  If player level > 10, stock their friendly Stations with Assault Troops, a Resource that, if "sold" to another Faction's station, gives a chance of taking it over.  This isn't necessary past 0.6, where it should be possible to just invade the place with Marines (finally, yes!).
B.  If player level > 30, the Storage Depot should spawn an item called "Strategic Target", that, if placed in another Faction's station, re-targets the strategic AI of your Faction on that location until the player buys it back and moves it somewhere else.  I don't know if 0.6 will obsolete that; it may be possible to write a dialog option that will allow players to cycle through the enemy-held Stations instead.
C.  I think that the player's actions in general needs to influence things economically /strategically more.  For example, if the player's really destroying a lot of the enemy, there should be a much higher chance of friendly invasion fleets coming in to finish the job.
D.  There aren't quite enough signals about why your Faction's not building new fleets or fleets with enough power to tackle the huge enemy fleets that can build up if one of the Factions gains a lot of Stations.  I'm going to look at that and see if I can make it so that if the player delivers Germanium and Fuel to the friendly Stations, they get a big boost in productivity, giving the player something to do besides just kill stuff once they're past the early phase.  Once combat gets heavy, many Factions can't mine and are effectively dead economically, which is a drag if you happen to belong to one of the dead factions.
E.  It'd be nice if the faction names had their first names capitalized in statements.
F.  It'd be nice if, instead of 'Exerelin' the statements used the System name.  Pretty important when we're able to have more than one System.
G.  It'd be nice, in a game where the Factions can't respawn, for there to be an item the player could use to revive his / her Faction, if he/she can stay alive long enough.
H.  The bare-bones version should have the faction files standardized to just have the "exerelin_blah" fleet types, as a clear guide.  That was one of the longer grinds, in terms of getting my mod set up, since I have all of the Factions using unique ships (no more Heg / Pirate being pretty much the same, etc.).

Anyhow, just some preliminary thoughts; getting the mod ported is pretty much feature-complete, so I'm looking for ways to further enhance things so that the five-way wars can be really interesting and the player can help create the outcome if they play it well.

Oh, and ... I've noticed that at Stations, only my Faction's Stations get any ships or weapons delivered.  Is that a feature, and if so, how do I disable it?  It's a real drag having no way to get a lot of things other than capture --> OmniFactory.  I've played tonight and have > $500K in the bank, wiith nothing to spend it on because my Faction got kicked around in early game, and there aren't any capital ships to buy, so I can't quite get my fleet to the point where it can be expected to single-handedly slay all the defending fleets around an enemy base.  Bit of a deadlock atm, until I manage to capture an enemy capital ship.
[EDIT]
Forgot that I fixed that last evening, when I started writing this.  Fixed, got a capship finally, from one of the Trade League runs :)
[/EDIT]
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: sc90 on July 31, 2013, 12:01:02 PM
Great mod :D btw is there a way to have everything for free ? im tired of waiting to get enough cash to start actually fighting any faction -_-
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: CopperCoyote on July 31, 2013, 01:21:45 PM
Is corrupt_10y a legit ship name?
I think it was an interstellar federation ship that had that name. If it is then it doesn't mesh with their other names, but I kind of like it. If it isn't then its a non-break-stuff bug because i killed the ship and looted it and every thing just fine.

On a side note Exeralin is progressing fantastically. I hadn't play since .5 and i'm rather enjoying the ability to have shadow wars and mining.
I'd like to request a trickle of XPs for mining please. I spent most of the first year waiting for someone to declare war with me & we had all the supplies ever. Some bonus XP would have been nice. Not a lot, maybe 50.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 31, 2013, 02:49:49 PM
@Zaphide:
---snip---

1. No worries :) glad to hear it!
2. All sounds good.

A quick note on weapons and ships; in StarSector 0.6 I think it will be possible to get the weapon list of a ship variant in the campaign mode and so there will be no need to maintain weapon lists for factions as it can just get the ship variant from fleet, then get the possible weapons from those variants. I like the idea of just using the .faction file fleets as it means the list is only in one place but it is more restrictive.

If you can do your changes in such a way that you can easily update as Exerelin gets updated it that would be easiest for the future. There is/will be quite a few changes to support multiple systems (among other things).

3a. I was imagining implementing this as a kind of reverse-mining. If the player fleet is on top of a station, and it has marines, minus marines from the fleet and station until either the station has no more (player wins) or the player fleet has no more (attack unsuccessful). In fact this is how I'll probably change the AI controlled station takeover fleets too.

3b. Yeah I'm really hoping for the dialog option, otherwise what you suggest is what I have in mind. I was also thinking that it could act as a fleet rally point, so your fleets will rally around your fleet if carrying it, your station if you put it at a friendly station and attack an enemy station if you put it there. Unfortunately I haven't started on the strategic AI (soon! tm) but it will quickly become a necessity with multiple systems.

3c. Agreed, and StarSector 0.6 should have a few more options in this area.

3d. There is an efficiency value for each stationRecord that affects internal resource generation that may suit this purpose. i.e. delivering Germanium increases efficiency.

3e. It would :) I need to write a messaging system properly (so in StarSector 0.6 have different message lists for different event types, which are displayed in different UI elements etc).

3f. The refactor I am working on at the moment should make it so that it theoretically supports multiple systems.

3g. The non-respawn doesn't apply to the players faction (or at least shouldn't).

3h. Yeah I will clean them up at some point :P

Any chance we can have a look at your mod soon?  :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on July 31, 2013, 02:53:28 PM
Great mod :D btw is there a way to have everything for free ? im tired of waiting to get enough cash to start actually fighting any faction -_-

Unfortunately not anymore.

Is corrupt_10y a legit ship name?
I think it was an interstellar federation ship that had that name. If it is then it doesn't mesh with their other names, but I kind of like it. If it isn't then its a non-break-stuff bug because i killed the ship and looted it and every thing just fine.

Yeah it's actually the Nihil names, but it seems to use them for things it shouldn't. So a bug, but only an extremely minor one :)

On a side note Exeralin is progressing fantastically. I hadn't play since .5 and i'm rather enjoying the ability to have shadow wars and mining.
I'd like to request a trickle of XPs for mining please. I spent most of the first year waiting for someone to declare war with me & we had all the supplies ever. Some bonus XP would have been nice. Not a lot, maybe 50.

Yeah it's is on the (fairly extensive) todo list :)

Also looking at adding some character skills for mining, diplomacy and faction fleet management.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on July 31, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
Quote
If you can do your changes in such a way that you can easily update as Exerelin gets updated it that would be easiest for the future. There is/will be quite a few changes to support multiple systems (among other things).
Yeah, that sounds wise.  Let's compare notes after I release :)

Quote
Any chance we can have a look at your mod soon?
As soon as I'm happy with the changes I've made to the economy, I think it's finally ready-enough :)  I got "Germanium" working, but it's not limiting fleet growth right just yet- lots of it is getting dumped per cycle.  I haven't quite figured out where my changes went awry yet :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zantiszar on August 01, 2013, 02:50:12 AM
Great mod :D btw is there a way to have everything for free ? im tired of waiting to get enough cash to start actually fighting any faction -_-

Get console comand mod thats how I do it sometimes just to troll the AI
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: GruntyThrst on August 01, 2013, 02:52:22 AM
Excellent mod, Zaphide. I've been having a lot of fun tooting around Exerelin representing Blackrock with a massive doomfleet of Nevermores and Stormcrows. I have a question and a suggestion:

I assume limited the player to buying weapons/ships from only associated faction station is a balance/flavor choice? It's entirely understandable but it also tends to make player fleets really "same-y" because boarding is such an undependable source of hulls. I don't know anything about the feasibility of this code wise, but what about loosening the restrictions just a bit? Maybe neutral factions would be willing to sell weapons and lighter (Fighters/Frigates/Maybe Destroyers?) hulls, and allied factions would allow full access?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: sirboomalot on August 01, 2013, 12:30:09 PM
Along with being able to capture hulls there are also trade guild fleets that sell weapons and ships from other factions to your station, along with supply fleets from allies that also come with that allies weapons and ships. Plus there is the omnifactory, which slowly makes copies of any weapon or ship that you sell to it. I kinda like that it is hard to get weapons or ships from other factions, it makes your choice of faction have some weight behind it, means that you have to actually be a part of that faction until you get the omnifactory well stocked, instead of just supporting the faction.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 01, 2013, 03:00:39 PM
Thanks for the praise :)

Identifying with a faction is one of the key goals of Exerelin so it's unlikely it will change too much.

An idea I have been thinking about is 'Unidentified Ship Blueprints' and 'Unidentified Weapon Blueprints' dropping after combat, which could then be given to a research facility (or perhaps just one of your factions stations) which could then (at the cost of supplies/fuel/time) be turned into a random ship/weapon from another faction. Then it is up to the player whether they want to buy it, give it to OmniFactory etc.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 01, 2013, 04:05:23 PM
So, after taking over a Bushi station, the Nomads seem to have reverse engineered Bushi replication technologies because they've been spewing out this nonsense (http://scr.hu/0zoz/avvtt) ever since. That's 16 full size fleets they've got going there.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: echosierraalpha on August 01, 2013, 07:04:12 PM
Lol,
Ok, who forgot to put the replication limiting codes in their nanobots?
that stuff's important :P
Spoiler
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3069/2977755032_4e00ed687c_o.jpg)
[close]

in all seriousness though, maybe that station had a glutt of supplies that didn't have an oppurtunity to be used? would explain where all those fleets came from :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 01, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
So, after taking over a Bushi station, the Nomads seem to have reverse engineered Bushi replication technologies because they've been spewing out this nonsense (http://scr.hu/0zoz/avvtt) ever since. That's 16 full size fleets they've got going there.

Hmmm I assume your playing the factions included version and are running the bushi mod alongside? Any chance you could upload or PM me your save file?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: DarkAlbino on August 01, 2013, 10:03:55 PM
Don't know if this happened to anyone else, when playing 0.58 as Bushi the in-system station attack fleets don't spawn, Hiigaran Descendants work just fine for me.
Bushi sits and waits and does not expand.

Only thing i changed was some faction colors in the x.faction files.

I also get the feeling that they don't spawn as much as the others, but that's maybe just a false impression, tried it in about 5 different games.

Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 01, 2013, 10:48:21 PM
Don't know if this happened to anyone else, when playing 0.58 as Bushi the in-system station attack fleets don't spawn, Hiigaran Descendants work just fine for me.
Bushi sits and waits and does not expand.

Only thing i changed was some faction colors in the x.faction files.

I also get the feeling that they don't spawn as much as the others, but that's maybe just a false impression, tried it in about 5 different games.



Thanks I'll have a look. Changing faction colors shouldn't matter.

Spawn rates are the same for all factions but fleet costs can differ depending on ship type composition.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 01, 2013, 10:57:05 PM
So, after taking over a Bushi station, the Nomads seem to have reverse engineered Bushi replication technologies because they've been spewing out this nonsense (http://scr.hu/0zoz/avvtt) ever since. That's 16 full size fleets they've got going there.

Hmmm I assume your playing the factions included version and are running the bushi mod alongside? Any chance you could upload or PM me your save file?

Uploading now. Note that a while has passed in game-time since I took that picture. The Nomads have since driven the Bushi out of the sector and the Bushi immediately re-established themselves by taking over a Thule station instead. I ventured down towards the old Bushi station and the Nomads seem to have tucked away their grey goo fleets. So I went over to the station that caused this mess and this is what their inventory currently looks like (http://scr.hu/0zoz/h1rqj). This is a couple in-game months down the line, though, so maybe those grey goo fleets ate themselves. 4 of them should have been the Out-of-System megafleets, the rest were just huge L4 fleets. Which is funny, considering before that, the Bushi were struggling to send out more than a couple cruisers at a time.

Of curious note, the mod seems to have either gone back a few steps, or the Bushi and Hiigarans are above such events. The station's inventory has not been cleared out of Bushi ships.

Drawpbawx (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ticdbz9yp8qp52w/elLKOVUde8).
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 01, 2013, 11:13:41 PM
So, after taking over a Bushi station, the Nomads seem to have reverse engineered Bushi replication technologies because they've been spewing out this nonsense (http://scr.hu/0zoz/avvtt) ever since. That's 16 full size fleets they've got going there.

Hmmm I assume your playing the factions included version and are running the bushi mod alongside? Any chance you could upload or PM me your save file?

Uploading now. Note that a while has passed in game-time since I took that picture. The Nomads have since driven the Bushi out of the sector and the Bushi immediately re-established themselves by taking over a Thule station instead. I ventured down towards the old Bushi station and the Nomads seem to have tucked away their grey goo fleets. So I went over to the station that caused this mess and this is what their inventory currently looks like (http://scr.hu/0zoz/h1rqj). This is a couple in-game months down the line, though, so maybe those grey goo fleets ate themselves. 4 of them should have been the Out-of-System megafleets, the rest were just huge L4 fleets. Which is funny, considering before that, the Bushi were struggling to send out more than a couple cruisers at a time.

Of curious note, the mod seems to have either gone back a few steps, or the Bushi and Hiigarans are above such events. The station's inventory has not been cleared out of Bushi ships.

Drawpbawx (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ticdbz9yp8qp52w/elLKOVUde8).

Thanks I'll have a look :)

Did the nomads own quite a few stations? The patrol fleets can help attack/defend so it is possible that a number of fleets could legitimently end up defending/attacking a station. Also, as you said it just got captured the attacking fleets may not have gone home yet.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 01, 2013, 11:33:15 PM
No, that was the Nomads making their incursion into the sector, thus the 4 huge roflstomping Out-of-System fleets they had, on top of all the other super huge fleets they were fielding. The Bushi had two stations on that planet and the second one was basically made irrelevant due to cruisers and frigates spawning into full-on multi-battleship fleets.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: DarkAlbino on August 03, 2013, 02:15:02 AM
My issue has been resolved, I forgot that i changed the atlas in the bushi fleets into the bushi transport. Do station attack fleets only work with atlas for bushi?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 03, 2013, 02:59:15 AM
My issue has been resolved, I forgot that i changed the atlas in the bushi fleets into the bushi transport. Do station attack fleets only work with atlas for bushi?

Ah OK yeah that'll do it :P They are not specific to a faction, rather there are only 3 ship types that are considered valid for a boarding fleet.

There is a method in ExerelinUtils.java:
Code
public static boolean isValidBoardingFleet(CampaignFleetAPI fleet)
{
List members = fleet.getFleetData().getMembersListCopy();
Boolean hasLargeFreighter = false;
for(int i = 0; i < members.size(); i++)
{
FleetMemberAPI fmAPI = (FleetMemberAPI)members.get(i);
if(fmAPI.getSpecId().contains("atlas") || fmAPI.getSpecId().contains("mazerk") || fmAPI.getSpecId().contains("neerin"))
{
hasLargeFreighter = true;
break;
}
}

return hasLargeFreighter;
}
NOTE: The above is from the DEV version so it may be slightly different in your version.

You could edit this to add in the spec types as per the if(fmAPI.getSpecId().contains("atlas") line which should allow you to customise it.

I think (could be wrong) the Bushi large freighter is actually a cruiser rather than a capital ship class, and capital ships incur a larger construction resource penalty than other ship types, so it would make the Bushi station takeover fleets less expensive compared to other factions.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Rhoastabotch on August 03, 2013, 07:51:28 PM
This is really fun, thanks for making it!  It took me a while to find settings that worked for me, but starting in a fairly big system with only two factions then having the others start to show up 2-4 months later seem to be the sweet spot for me.

If I can make an enhancement request, as a fan, I would really like to decide which other factions show up.  Most of the factions are quite balanced and fun but some are more balanced than others.  Blackrock being a glaring example in my humble opinion.  Seems like on the campaign map blackrock fleets are > any other and in the battles the battlecruisers have way too much firepower for how maneuverable they are (and how many fleet points they cost, 18 feels stupid low when compared to other cruisers and BCs).  I understand that this is a compilation with a bunch of other peoples work put together, so I'm not blaming you.  I'm also not trying to be inflammatory, others likely feel differently about the balance.  That's why it would be awesome if we could pick what factions we find fun to play with *and* against.

Anyway, thanks again for your time putting this together, but also FU for costing me so much sleep.

-Rhoastabotch

-edited for not great engrish-
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 03, 2013, 08:45:04 PM
Comments on balance are better directed at the faction's thread in particular. Though, I find the Blackrock battlecruiser to be very lightly armed. 18FP is pretty low, but it brings solar panels and a heavy solenoid gun into the mix.... And that's about it.... The dinosaur ship (Gonodactylus or something insane like that) with the Hammerclaw missile is something I find much more intimidating. Or the Stormcrow. If I'm facing the blackrock capital and a Stormcrow, I will always prioritize the Stormcrow. Those squall cannons might be short ranged but they are certainly not to weapons to joke around with.

The battlecruiser used to be more heavily armed, bringing two of those heavy solenoid guns to the fray, but now it only carries one. It also doesn't hit all that hard, it's only like 250dps while most large battleship guns are doing in excess of 300dps, often closer to 400 or even 450. But I feel the smaller Blackrock ships do a much better job of terrorizing and marauding than the battlecruiser does.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Cerevox on August 03, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
It seems to me that balance comments are far better here than in any other thread, since we are talking about the balance in Exerlein, not anywhere else. Also, it isn't possible to balance a faction by itself, it has to be compared to something.

I do have to agree, the blackrock cap ship feels weaker than the 2 arrow looking cruisers by a decent margin.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 03, 2013, 09:05:02 PM
And you know what? I quite like that. The blackrock battlecruiser capital ship is NOT the epitome of blackrock power like the Onslaught is for the Hegemony or the Paragon for the Tri-Tachyon. I think a Nevermore or a Stormcrow will readily trounce the blackrock battlecruiser. Also, for funsies, go into the Exerelin files, check the graphics and move to the "BR" folder, then to the "graphics" and check out the little gem listed as "sachumodo2 (http://i.imgur.com/1uibBRe.png)".
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: CaveBacon on August 03, 2013, 09:18:56 PM
I had hoped that my first post on these forums would be something more intellectual than this, but:
@sachumodo2: SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 03, 2013, 11:22:29 PM
So it happened again. Reverse engineered Bushi replication technology (http://scr.hu/0zoz/fprjp) that is.... Station was taken a couple days ago in game time. Some of those fleets are the Out of System roflstomping fleets. Fortunately, my shoving a ton of PoWs onto the Council Loyalists paid off, allied with them and the Relics under the Galactic Coalition. Unfortunately, the pirates couldn't care less and redeclared war like, the next day.


Drawpbawx (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ticdbz9yp8qp52w/elLKOVUde8), should you wish to take a gander, Zaphide.

Bushi seems to have forgotten how to use this replication technology though because despite dumping ~6000 men, ~4000 supplies and ~3000 marines, the Bushi stations still couldn't produce large numbers of full size fleets. They still much preferred sending out tiny scouting parties instead. I thought maybe the 700 remaining supplies was the issue, so I dragged another few thousand supplies from other stations, to no effect. Oh well, the Pirates have made good use of that crazy excess of resources.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Cycerin on August 04, 2013, 04:40:12 AM
For some reason the Stormcrow, which was supposed to be a ship used by one fleet boss in Uomoz' Corvus, has been implemented as a regular cruiser in this mod. It was not intended, and I've talked to Zaphide about it. It's an imbalanced ship that doesn't really count as a cruiser.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on August 04, 2013, 08:46:47 AM
For some reason the Stormcrow, which was supposed to be a ship used by one fleet boss in Uomoz' Corvus, has been implemented as a regular cruiser in this mod. It was not intended, and I've talked to Zaphide about it. It's an imbalanced ship that doesn't really count as a cruiser.

Kind of like the Vat-IV for Valkyrians, Which isn't supposed to appear in normal fleets either.  ::)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Cerevox on August 04, 2013, 11:38:18 AM
But those fleets kind of need those super ships. Many fleets have that level of power in their regular ships, so without the Vat4 and the Stormcrow those factions would just get walked on by other factions. Although the valks could probably still hold their own, the blackrock simply doesn't have the same strength in its lower tiers. It needs the Nevermore and the Stormcrow to compete.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Cycerin on August 04, 2013, 12:09:52 PM
I find it pretty funny how few posts it takes inbetween someone calling Blackrock overpowered and someone calling them underpowered. ;D The game is about to change a lot, that's all I'll say for now.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 04, 2013, 12:16:33 PM
The Valkyrians compress so much firepower onto their larger ships, I'm sure they'd be fine with VatIVs only occasionally making an appearance in their fleets.

And I don't know how well Blackrock fleets handle themselves in autoresolve, but in actual combat, those nippy frigates and destroyers can happily terrorize larger ships with ease. The Nevermore is a part of regular Blackrock fleets while the Stormcrow is not. But I'm fine with the Stormcrow's presence in Exerelin, I know there are a couple ships that are tucked away, out of sight and out of mind, like the Unsung, I never see that in Neutrino fleets and I would love to, but alas.


EDIT:
Ninja'd
Well, this gives me an opportunity to ask. Cycerin, will that mystery ship (http://i.imgur.com/1uibBRe.png) make an appearance? I just took a look through the ship data files and didn't see any names that I didn't recognize in the Blackrock fleet.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MShadowy on August 04, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
BRDY's forces can be a surprising challenge sometimes, but I think their challenge level is just about right.  Especially the cruisers; their special weapons and general mobility make them a serious threat without being completely overwhelming.  Also, they aren't a horrible slog like Neutrino ships... but then I am prone to unnecessary soloing, so I guess I've got it coming.  Anyway, the point BRDY is fun to fights against or for.

Also, looking back through the thread apparently SHI is made of paper or something, but I'm not sure I should consider balancing my mod in comparison to other mods.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 04, 2013, 09:29:28 PM
I'm sure it was you who said your ships' armour constituted space-grade tissuepaper armour. If not you, then someone else.

I find the Morningstar to be rather durable, considering it's near frigate size. I kept thinking it was just a heavy frigate till I looked at in the overviews and saw it was actually a destroyer. Mimir is god awfully annoying to get off your ass with it's ability to just make 3 decently ranged blinks into your face. My current bushi cruiser is armed with a standard phase skimmer and barely jumps more than the length of the ship itself. Charybdis is fairly weak, but it's a carrier, I don't expect it to take a pounding like the Mimir does.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 05, 2013, 02:50:03 AM
This is really fun, thanks for making it!  It took me a while to find settings that worked for me, but starting in a fairly big system with only two factions then having the others start to show up 2-4 months later seem to be the sweet spot for me.

Thanks Rhoastabotch :) and I agree, it takes a bit of time to find what works best for you.

If I can make an enhancement request, as a fan, I would really like to decide which other factions show up.  --- snip ---

The first post in this thread has details on how to remove factions you don't want to play with/against. See the 'Restricting Certain Included Factions' guide.

--- snip ---
Drawpbawx (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ticdbz9yp8qp52w/elLKOVUde8), should you wish to take a gander, Zaphide.
--- snip ---

Thanks! I'll have a look when I get a chance :)

Quote
Regarding OP ships

A few pages back (or maybe quite a few, or maybe somewhere else, I forget :) ) it was discussed having a list of ships per faction that are included in fleets under certain conditions, and that do not appear in stations for sale. Examples would include the Unsung, Vatican IV, Stormcrow etc.

It seems a bit of a shame to have these interesting ships that do not get used, so I would prefer to look for a way to include them even if they are super rare :)

Quote
Regarding cross-faction balance discussion appearing in this thread

I think Exerelin sets up a pretty good stage for faction vs. faction, and so perhaps differences are more noticeable (and irritating :P )
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on August 05, 2013, 03:41:21 AM
Got a release out... I suspect I haven't squished all the bugs out, but I think the main issues with a different economy are now working.  I need to take long hard look at how the bigger fleets get spawned and make some sort of strategic AI; I want to see early-game after declarations of war, lots of small stuff that early players can kill and then scale things up when the players above level 25 or so.  But features like having to pay your crew wages and other things like that are working at this point, so you might want to take a look.  Feel free to use anything you like, of course- I think the economic stuff will be pretty cool when the balance is a little tighter :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Uomoz on August 05, 2013, 04:18:51 AM
Quote
Regarding cross-faction balance discussion appearing in this thread

I think Exerelin sets up a pretty good stage for faction vs. faction, and so perhaps differences are more noticeable (and irritating :P )

I think that some factions are not supposed to win an equal fp-fp battle. Think about it, a fleet of Atlases will never be able to face any opponent. Same thing happens for not militarized factions, like ASP. Not every faction is supposed to be on par with TT or Heg for example.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 05, 2013, 04:50:18 AM
Got a release out... I suspect I haven't squished all the bugs out, but I think the main issues with a different economy are now working.  I need to take long hard look at how the bigger fleets get spawned and make some sort of strategic AI; I want to see early-game after declarations of war, lots of small stuff that early players can kill and then scale things up when the players above level 25 or so.  But features like having to pay your crew wages and other things like that are working at this point, so you might want to take a look.  Feel free to use anything you like, of course- I think the economic stuff will be pretty cool when the balance is a little tighter :)

Very nice! Glad you got it all working :) Yeah the strategic AI is in the back of my mind; it will be much more important when there is multiple systems.

Quote
Regarding cross-faction balance discussion appearing in this thread

I think Exerelin sets up a pretty good stage for faction vs. faction, and so perhaps differences are more noticeable (and irritating :P )

I think that some factions are not supposed to win an equal fp-fp battle. Think about it, a fleet of Atlases will never be able to face any opponent. Same thing happens for not militarized factions, like ASP. Not every faction is supposed to be on par with TT or Heg for example.

True but I do think though there is an general expectation of (approximate) ship to ship balance. The ASP or the Atlas have other things going for them besides their combat ability, so their FP cost is justified not just by their combat potential.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 05, 2013, 05:40:37 AM
So it happened again. Reverse engineered Bushi replication technology (http://scr.hu/0zoz/fprjp) that is.... Station was taken a couple days ago in game time. Some of those fleets are the Out of System roflstomping fleets. Fortunately, my shoving a ton of PoWs onto the Council Loyalists paid off, allied with them and the Relics under the Galactic Coalition. Unfortunately, the pirates couldn't care less and redeclared war like, the next day.


Drawpbawx (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ticdbz9yp8qp52w/elLKOVUde8), should you wish to take a gander, Zaphide.

Bushi seems to have forgotten how to use this replication technology though because despite dumping ~6000 men, ~4000 supplies and ~3000 marines, the Bushi stations still couldn't produce large numbers of full size fleets. They still much preferred sending out tiny scouting parties instead. I thought maybe the 700 remaining supplies was the issue, so I dragged another few thousand supplies from other stations, to no effect. Oh well, the Pirates have made good use of that crazy excess of resources.

OK so finally had a look at this, I think what happened (and it wouldn't be super uncommon) is that 3 Out System fleets took over that station, which dumps a LOT of resources in it (kind of a kickstart). So you have those 3 fleets, plus then it will spawn 2 defense fleets, plus 2 attack fleets, plus 2 patrol fleets, plus 1 Station attack fleet. Kind of a lot in a small space but yeah :P

At least you still have your Council allies?  :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MShadowy on August 05, 2013, 07:10:12 AM
I'm sure it was you who said your ships' armour constituted space-grade tissuepaper armour. If not you, then someone else.

I find the Morningstar to be rather durable, considering it's near frigate size. I kept thinking it was just a heavy frigate till I looked at in the overviews and saw it was actually a destroyer. Mimir is god awfully annoying to get off your ass with it's ability to just make 3 decently ranged blinks into your face. My current bushi cruiser is armed with a standard phase skimmer and barely jumps more than the length of the ship itself. Charybdis is fairly weak, but it's a carrier, I don't expect it to take a pounding like the Mimir does.

I did indeed say that thing about space tissue armor, heh.  I suppose what I should have said was that there was some suggestion (way back on page 30 something) of the faction being overall fairly easy/not very challenging to fight against, which I kinda suspect may mean not very fun to fight either.

Quote
Regarding cross-faction balance discussion appearing in this thread

I think Exerelin sets up a pretty good stage for faction vs. faction, and so perhaps differences are more noticeable (and irritating :P )

I think that some factions are not supposed to win an equal fp-fp battle. Think about it, a fleet of Atlases will never be able to face any opponent. Same thing happens for not militarized factions, like ASP. Not every faction is supposed to be on par with TT or Heg for example.

And this is definitely true.  I suppose I shouldn't worry about it after all.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Infinite Monkeys on August 05, 2013, 02:27:49 PM
How do I find the Omnifactory? I spent like 20 minutes hunting through the map and couldn't find it, so I looked in the campaign file and changed the location of my fleet to the location of the factory (I think) but when I loaded the save I was still in the same place I was when I saved it...

e: Found it, it didn't pick a planet without any other stations for some reason.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 05, 2013, 02:42:42 PM
How do I find the Omnifactory? I spent like 20 minutes hunting through the map and couldn't find it, so I looked in the campaign file and changed the location of my fleet to the location of the factory (I think) but when I loaded the save I was still in the same place I was when I saved it...

Provided you selected it in the system setup options, it will appear on the map as a purplish station (the same color as the Trade Guild fleets).

Quote
Regarding cross-faction balance discussion appearing in this thread

I think Exerelin sets up a pretty good stage for faction vs. faction, and so perhaps differences are more noticeable (and irritating :P )

I think that some factions are not supposed to win an equal fp-fp battle. Think about it, a fleet of Atlases will never be able to face any opponent. Same thing happens for not militarized factions, like ASP. Not every faction is supposed to be on par with TT or Heg for example.

And this is definitely true.  I suppose I shouldn't worry about it after all.

Yeah I wouldn't worry about it :) SHI is well balanced I think.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Infinite Monkeys on August 05, 2013, 03:10:11 PM
Why am I being paid wages? I have loads of credits pretty early on because I keep getting paid wages of like 5000 or something, it feels like I'm cheating.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 05, 2013, 04:35:03 PM
How do I find the Omnifactory? I spent like 20 minutes hunting through the map and couldn't find it, so I looked in the campaign file and changed the location of my fleet to the location of the factory (I think) but when I loaded the save I was still in the same place I was when I saved it...

e: Found it, it didn't pick a planet without any other stations for some reason: http://puu.sh/3UCyq.jpg

The Omnifactory sets up at the first station your faction makes home at. So if you faction makes home at a station called "Hell Terminal", it'll set up in orbit over Hell as well. The storage facility will also make home at Hell. If you lose Hell, though, the Omnifactory and storage facility will not relocate.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Infinite Monkeys on August 05, 2013, 06:43:18 PM
Oh, the OP of the Omnifactory mod page says it picks a random uninhabited planet. Also that puu.sh didn't capture right for some reason, it was meant to be the 3 stations.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 05, 2013, 08:08:55 PM
That's what the Omnifactory does normally, but Zaphide changed that about for Exerelin.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 14, 2013, 04:53:43 AM
DEV Update
I have put together another DEV version with no included factions for those who are interested.
https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.59.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_NoFactions_0.59.zip) NOT SAVE COMPATIBLE

Due to some ship name clashes between Avan's Mod and other mods, avoid running it with Tore Up Plenty or Independent Defense Force. I haven't been able to contact Avan to get his OK to support his mod in Exerelin, so Avan if you have an issue with it please let me know :)

Unfortunately there are not a lot of obvious changes (other than the increased faction support). Most of the work was done to prepare some groundwork for multiple systems :)

Development Plans
It is unlikely I'll release another stable version with included factions to replace the current 0.58 version until after StarSector 0.6.
I'll continue to work on development and will release new development versions if things are in a good state :)

Changes
Code
- Added EliteShips list for various factions that contains unbalanced or dreadnaught-style ships
  - Only spawn occasionally as part of a fleet, never delivered

- Added support for Relics (elder+purifer)
- Added support for Directorate (Avan's Mod)
- Added support for Isora (Avan's Mod)
- Added support for Ceredia (Avan's Mod)
- Added support for Independant Mining Faction
- Added support for Scrappers
- Added support for Shadow Order

- Updated Valkyrian supported version
- Updated Shadowyards HI supported version
- Updated Bushi supported version
- Updated Thule Legacy supported version
- Updated Tore Up Plenty supported version

- Renamed Out System Attack Fleet -> Command Fleet
- Command fleets now always defend even at start of game
- Renamed Out System Supply Convoy -> Supply Convoy
- Renamed InSystem Station Attack Fleet -> Boarding Fleet
- Renamed InSystem Supply Convoy -> Resource Convoy

 - Fixed check no rebels already in system when creating more rebels against faction

 - Refactored a lot of code for multiple system support (BIG changes, included a lot of pesky fixes, probably introduced a more bugs) :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on August 14, 2013, 11:55:23 AM
I'm interested in doing a merge; what are the areas I should be looking at to import, so that my project doesn't get completely bit-rotten?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: DarkAlbino on August 14, 2013, 12:29:45 PM
Hey Zaphide, I made Ceredia into a working faction:

Spoiler
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8419/escl.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/escl.png/)

[close]

It's ready for integration into exerelin, I already play with them. It has a freighter, tanker and a capital seized boardingship.

I also made some portraits:

Spoiler
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/543/6jy.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/6jy.png/)

[close]

I also didn't get an answer from Avan or Wolfy as he's called on Transcendence forum http://forums.kronosaur.com/
He's active there but no answer.
What you think?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on August 14, 2013, 02:10:48 PM
Avan ain't here anymore, hes left the forum, that might explain why he doesn't reply to anything here. :I
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 14, 2013, 02:50:01 PM
Hey Zaphide, I made Ceredia into a working faction:

Spoiler
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8419/escl.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/escl.png/)

[close]

It's ready for integration into exerelin, I already play with them. It has a freighter, tanker and a capital seized boardingship.

I also made some portraits:

Spoiler
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/543/6jy.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/6jy.png/)

[close]

I also didn't get an answer from Avan or Wolfy as he's called on Transcendence forum http://forums.kronosaur.com/
He's active there but no answer.
What you think?

 --- Reply moved to Avan's thread ---
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 14, 2013, 02:55:52 PM
I'm interested in doing a merge; what are the areas I should be looking at to import, so that my project doesn't get completely bit-rotten?

Haha most of it :P

You can see the diffs on the BitBucket project.

A lot of changes were done in the various Manager classes, and the SpawnPoint classes all got changes too. I also added a couple of new classes.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: xenoargh on August 14, 2013, 09:56:37 PM
Hrmm.

Well, I hate to have to re-write everything I've added, but I need to have reasonable future-proofing, so I'll have to see what can be done.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 14, 2013, 10:51:59 PM
You could branch/fork the BitBucket project, and then you could pull changes and have Git handle the merges?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on August 16, 2013, 01:36:53 AM
Just a quick note:

I will be out of town for a couple of weeks and may not be checking in much. I know there is an issue around loading/starting different games in a row under certain conditions in Dev 0.59, which you should be able to work around by just quitting and loading StarSector (it'll crash anyway).

Anyways, I may not be able to respond very quickly until I get back :)

Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: OrangeLazarus on August 16, 2013, 08:50:43 AM
So how exactly do I capture another station?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: SirPeter on August 17, 2013, 05:44:28 AM
Awesome game and awesome mod!

Would like to beable to capture a station also.

And is there a way to let my faction increase its spawning of fleets? I mean I kill most of the enemy fleets near the station and hoping that my faction will spawn an invasion fleet. However usually I see the enemy faction spawn a huge new defensive fleet and I need to start all over again.

Maybe related but if I give my station loads of materials and fuel will it spawn fleets faster? Or whats the trigger? Trigger seems to be when the faction is in trouble.   
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: DragonV2 on August 18, 2013, 03:29:22 AM
just logged in to say i noticed a planet name i was very surprised and glad to see: Tyrian

all we need now is microcorp trying to take over the sector... and the carrot ship
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: restore on August 21, 2013, 08:47:33 PM
Id like to ask, is there everything right with thule ships? I have got a problem with them, and i need to find out, if its on my side...
I got a Berghast ship. In some battle (not the first one) i saw a wierd explosion particle through whole screen and after that it started. When i shoot, a purple particles are generated in middle of the ship where no turret is. They got 0 speed and are generated in great numbers. They can be also thrown away with special ship power(with good aim, it can oneshot almost everything :D ). After some time, if theres many of them, some interface disappear or other particles get missing.
Btw, dps on meteor gun is right? It looks more like max range of some variable with 10 digits...
I can provide some screenshots if needed.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on August 21, 2013, 09:23:29 PM
The DPS on the Thule Meteor is incorrect. A Tungsten (the ship that carries a Meteor into battle) only ever has one shot. DPS is irrelevant. Some Thule ships have a Heimdahl Pulsator or a Heimdahl Generator, which upon activation will explode, sending out a wave of purple energy, damaging ships and blasting away unshielded ships. The Pulsator is equipped on destroyers and other such small ships and can be set off in quick succession, making for a series of loud pops in the process. The Generator is fitted to the Thule battleship, the Herzog. It takes considerably longer to spool up for a discharge, but the effect is more pronounced. Both systems also have a very distinct sound, the full sound can be heard on the Herzog. (Several alarms followed by a sound of building power before the system discharges)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: EvilWaffleThing on August 22, 2013, 05:17:37 AM
I'd like to see some features from fleet control in this. Such as the ability to construct a station yourself and produce the various fleets (mining, defense, station assault, etc.) at it. Might give you the option of joining the game independently as the player faction instead of with one of the various factions.
Being able to capture stations by yourself would be awesome as well or at the very least the option to initiate a station assault.
Great mod by the way. I love the challenge of not being able to instantly get any ship you want.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: LostInTheWired on August 22, 2013, 11:13:17 AM
Man, it's been such a long time since I posted.  Been crazy lately.

Was finally able to download your git version and able to start on those diplomacy/station inventory changes I talked about frickin' months ago.  It will definitely be nice to be able to purchase weapons/ships from your allies.  It honestly looks easier than I first anticipated, so we'll see how it goes!  It's definitely good to see how well your mod is going, Zap.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: silentstormpt on August 22, 2013, 07:45:40 PM
Theres alot of work that its pretty damn useful for the economy mod being worked, check if theres anything you may need from here:
https://bitbucket.org/silentstormpt/starsector-utility-mods/

Specially the FactionEntity and PlanetEntity
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Ronald Klein on August 25, 2013, 10:00:56 AM

 I keep getting a fatal: null error everytime I try and fight anything. I'm only using exerelin and lazylib. Makes the game completely unplayable. Any thoughts?

 
Spoiler
223866 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
   at sun.misc.Unsafe.allocateMemory(Native Method)
   at java.nio.DirectByteBuffer.<init>(DirectByteBuffer.java:99)
   at java.nio.ByteBuffer.allocateDirect(ByteBuffer.java:288)
   at org.lwjgl.BufferUtils.createByteBuffer(BufferUtils.java:60)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ooOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ooOO.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.String.while$super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.A.ÖÖ?000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.A.A.new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$2.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: sirboomalot on August 25, 2013, 06:32:55 PM
Its the out'a memory bug, basically a bug in the vanilla game that becomes more frequent the more stuff you have going on in the game. The bug was never seen in the vanilla game, with only 3-4 factions to worry about, but with large mods such as this one that add a dozen or so more, the bug can show its face quite often. The usual solution is to save your game often and close and re-open the game if you've been playing a while, but if it is happening every battle that probably won't solve much. People have had some success in fixing or postponing the bug by opening the vmparams file with notepad and changing the numbers around a bit on the part that says -Xms512m -Xmx1024m, either by lowering both numbers or raising them a bit, and usually making them the same. There is a thread somewhere telling about this but I'm not sure where to find it at the moment; it basically changes how much memory the game is aloud to use.

The creator of starsector is aware of the bug and has fixed it for the next version.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Ronald Klein on August 26, 2013, 05:05:22 AM

  Ok got it sirboomalot.Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 01, 2013, 01:37:38 PM
Sorry for the late replies all! I have been away for a couple of weeks.

So how exactly do I capture another station?

You can't (yet). Your faction will automatically capture stations with certain fleets.

--- snip ---
And is there a way to let my faction increase its spawning of fleets? I mean I kill most of the enemy fleets near the station and hoping that my faction will spawn an invasion fleet. However usually I see the enemy faction spawn a huge new defensive fleet and I need to start all over again.

Maybe related but if I give my station loads of materials and fuel will it spawn fleets faster? Or whats the trigger? Trigger seems to be when the faction is in trouble.   

If you give your station fuel/supplies/regular crew they will spawn bigger fleets, more often. The trigger is a time delay, and once the time delay is met the station must have sufficient resources to spawn a fleet. The fleet sizes are adjusted to how many resources are available.

I'd like to see some features from fleet control in this. Such as the ability to construct a station yourself and produce the various fleets (mining, defense, station assault, etc.) at it. Might give you the option of joining the game independently as the player faction instead of with one of the various factions.
Being able to capture stations by yourself would be awesome as well or at the very least the option to initiate a station assault.
Great mod by the way. I love the challenge of not being able to instantly get any ship you want.

The fleet control mod probably more contains more micro-management than I would like this mod to have, but it will certainly have more options for the player to direct their faction. At the moment it is somewhat limited in what can be achieved via modding without resorting to fairly roundabout coding :)

Yeah allowing the player's fleet to act as a station capture fleet is on my things to do :)

Man, it's been such a long time since I posted.  Been crazy lately.

Was finally able to download your git version and able to start on those diplomacy/station inventory changes I talked about frickin' months ago.  It will definitely be nice to be able to purchase weapons/ships from your allies.  It honestly looks easier than I first anticipated, so we'll see how it goes!  It's definitely good to see how well your mod is going, Zap.

Sounds good :) The FactionsRemoved branch has the latest code (v0.59_DEV). The Master branch is still at v0.58. If you do wish to contribute any changes please let me know and I'll add you to the BitBucket project. I would prefer to manage things via Git rather than doing manual code merges all over the place  :P


  Ok got it sirboomalot.Thanks for the info!

Thanks sirboomalot, and glad you got it working Criticopulus  :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Lopunny Zen on September 02, 2013, 04:12:34 PM
can Nihil get balanced please...they are too strong...hell even their fighters shoot to far/ are too fast and do too much damage....you cant shoot at a target that goes that fast....and all their ships are overpowered and weapons are too perfectly placed...it gets annoying to play a game where one team is infinitely better...even worse they almost always win the auto matches without losing a single ship..just getting bigger..i hate that team...it has no fair play or weaknesses
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 02, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Say that to the mod author, Zaphide isn't the modder for Nihil, and if i remember correctly, they weren't tagged as balanced to begin with, much like council, which ain't tagged either (i think)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on September 02, 2013, 04:43:40 PM
Lopunny, you sure do complain a lot of the factions.  :-\


The "Anti" wings (which I think were meant to be called Anti Fighter but the Fighter part is just a designation, not a name, so they're just called Antis) are incredibly fast, yes, but are also incredibly weak. Fast reacting PD weapons (burst PD) will kill them, while weapons like Dual Flak will easily knock out their engines and send them spiralling away at incredible speed.

Larger Nihil ships are painfully slow. That dreadnaught, despite it's size and the capabilities of it's weapons, is little more than a punch bag. That thing must creep along at like 10SU/s. If it's in range, it's because you LET it get in range. Pretty much any capital ship should be able to move out of it's way and if a capital ship can do it, so can anything smaller.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Lopunny Zen on September 02, 2013, 07:06:16 PM
I complain alot because if i dont noone does...shouldnt they be balanced then...this is a collab after all and one should abide by the rules...(there better be ground rules) i mean what your saying is they can pump their ego by making their team better then the others...seems like a childish approuch...if the mods imbalanced..then dont put it in collabs like these..and yes i complain alot because when im nice noone listens to me which is always...i love this game and this mod...id hate to see it spoiled by imba teams for no reason. I bet anti stands for Anti Everthing...because frigates...which should be missles and FIGHTER counter cant hit them...the creator doesnt relize there are teams like to lotus that CANT equip those burst PD things...so its impossible...and the big guy is a problem...his flux is so freakin high and computers are stupid so naturally they get close and die...and i cant flux it on my own v.v
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: sirboomalot on September 02, 2013, 07:45:04 PM
Lopunny, this mod is a compilation, not a collab. The factions in this mod were not made specifically for this mod, they were not balanced specifically for this mod, and a few of them weren't meant to be balanced at all. There were not any ground rules for mods being balanced in this mod, because those factions were made before this mod even existed. The creator of this mod decided to add in the mods that might not be very balanced, knowing that they weren't quite perfectly balanced, because he knew that some people wouldn't mind that those factions were slightly more of a challenge, and because he had added an option to disable those factions for the people who did mind. The creators of the factions which are overpowered did not create those factions to boost their ego, they created those factions for the people who find the balanced factions too easy to beat.

This mod is not spoiled by unbalanced teams, because each and every person playing the mod has the ability to disable the teams that they think are unbalanced. The factions you choose to play with or as basically determines the difficulty of the game with this mod. To play on uber hard, play as the pirates or ASP, to play on easy, play as the council. To play on medium, you might play as the blackrock or shadowyards, and disable the council or nihil faction. How hard the game is is entirely up to you.

Please stop playing on hard and then complaining about the difficulty level, when the creator has given you ways to change that difficulty level.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Borgoid on September 02, 2013, 08:12:46 PM
Not only does blame not rest on the mod pack itself but.. Regarding Nihil's actual balance:

Their ships while having reasonably good weapon positioning are actually fairly poor in terms of flux dissipation/capacity, they have average high tech shields but are made of paper similar to the Tri-T ship design so I don't see what the issue is there.

The real issue has nothing to do with the faction, the ships, or even the fighters - Which by the way get shredded by even a single burst PD laser - It's entirely down to the weapons which are too efficient in terms of flux->damage ratio and range... but they're weapons.
The solution is to either fight fire with fire and load up any energy ship with Antimatter Throwers or Void Drivers and simply burn them down or if you're after a different approach bias your ships towards Kinetic loadouts, my personal suggestion is kinetic weapons such as the HVPC from Thule, the Railgun or Light Needler ( Or any of their larger equivalents ) from vanilla combined with any high explosive missile....  Or Bulwark missiles since Nihil armor is so flimsy on the smaller ships and the dps on Bulwarks is extremely high on raw hull.

Regarding the Irritum dreadnought: It has a frontal shield and basically can't turn, stay behind it and either burn its rear armor down or EMP it once it lowers its shields, I'd suggest any generic energy weapon that generates hard flux no matter how inefficient it is since the rear defense on the Irritum is poor at best and it has quite a lot of hull so ammo might be an issue with a Ballistic weapon.

Nihil are FAR from unbeatable, especially in THIS modpack, Blackrock basically hardcounters the entire Nihil fleet with high mobility and alpha strike damage when played properly.

Edit: if you'd like I can record a video of a Thule capital ship cutting down frigates, fighters, destroyers and Cruisers solo :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Lopunny Zen on September 02, 2013, 08:54:26 PM
yes but thule are based on carefully placed guns en-mase of course they can d it...sadly no shields
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Borgoid on September 02, 2013, 09:04:03 PM
yes but thule are based on carefully placed guns en-mase of course they can d it...sadly no shields

I fail to see how " No shields" is a valid criticism since it's clearly not getting in the way of dealing with the Nihil.

Then what's your problem? I could probably do it with a Paragon, Auria, Centaur, Banshee, could definitely do it with a Conquest, any of the Hawk ships, an Intrepid would have no issues, a Mimir would run circles around them, a well played Odyssey... a Vanquish could probably do it too. And that's not even mentioning any of the Vatican capitals.

A well played Eagle, Lathe, Nevermore, Raven, or any of the Council and a good chunk of the Valk cruisers could do it, Goat's typically do pretty well as well if outfitted with something that can generate hard flux in the large slot.

Edit: Oh I forgot Komodo destroyers, Rive, Medusa... the Sunder is pretty good as well at Nihil in general. All of those punch well above their weight when it comes to Nihil when played properly.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on September 03, 2013, 12:11:14 AM
I complain alot because if i dont noone does...shouldnt they be balanced then...this is a collab after all and one should abide by the rules...

There are no rules.
Zaphide built Exerelin with the intention of taking factions that he liked and putting them in the playground all together. This is not Uz's Corvus. It is not vanilla balanced, nor does it strive to be.

I bet anti stands for Anti Everthing...because frigates...which should be missles and FIGHTER counter cant hit them...
Already mentioned that Anti wings have the durability of tissue paper.

the creator doesnt relize there are teams like to lotus that CANT equip those burst PD things
And what you don't realise is that the Lotus Conglomerate is not made to equip energy weapons. Can't equip Burst PD? Load up on Flak. Fight the Thule Legacy and make use of their Bulwark SRMs. Fill out your small slots with revolver autocannons because those are HE damage and will rip through Antis.

and the big guy is a problem...his flux is so freakin high and computers are stupid so naturally they get close and die...and i cant flux it on my own v.v
The "big guy" is even less maneuverable than the Vaticans. As I said, if you're letting that thing pummel you, it's entirely your own fault for wandering into it's path. It's incredibly easy to flank and with 1000+ range guns and with range upgrades, you can whale on it's shields from well outside of it's own ranges.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Lopunny Zen on September 03, 2013, 04:27:48 PM
its not me getting pumbled its my allies...and because the things stats are too high all the auto resolved battle from other fleets against it always lose...because they dont hardly take things like their weakness into account with fleets like this
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: DarkAlbino on September 04, 2013, 12:25:02 PM
Suggestion:

Why not tag some of the habitable planets as having population and "mine" them for crew?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: angrytigerp on September 04, 2013, 01:06:07 PM
I feel like Council is a bit unbalanced. Yes, I saw:
Zaphide built Exerelin with the intention of taking factions that he liked and putting them in the playground all together. This is not Uz's Corvus. It is not vanilla balanced, nor does it strive to be.

but still, I chose Council because I liked the design of their ships, both sub-, trans-, and true capitals, but I'm finding a fleet of myself in a Hawk II and 4 Spartakans can easily wreck almost anything. This is especially since I have my skills set so that my shields are pretty much impenetrable. 4 Void Beams plus 2 Autoblasters plus Medium CEPCs (with Augmented Magazines to increase the latter twos' burst DPS) and I can pretty much go face-to-face with pretty much anything, up to and including ramming them with my shields to generate flux to boost my weapons' damage because my ship is expelling it faster than my weapons and the enemies' fire generates.

The one weakness I have is getting swarmed, but usually the only ships that are fast enough to do that (augmented engines and manuevering, both from hullmods and skills) also explode within seconds of me targeting them. The only guys I kind of find tricky to fight are Tri-Tachyon because of all the phase cloaking and teleporting, makes it hard to draw a bead... except I outrun almost anything except frigates.

As a side note, are skills really this broken in Vanilla? That would solve half of my gripes. I never played Vanilla after the skills update came out, so I don't know if it's normal for you to just have a ship that can outrun anything while putting out as much DPS as two battleships combined.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Silver Silence on September 04, 2013, 01:47:24 PM
Yes, it's quite normal. Once you have a fair few of the combat skills (75 0-flux bonuses up to 25% max flux, high velocity ammo for those slow moving shots like Hellbores, super fast venting, passive shield dissipation), just about the only ships that don't turn into killing machines are the freighters. Any battleship that is respectable in it's vanilla form, after hull upgrades, skills and perks will find itself being able to cruise through 3rd and 4th level fleets with some ease. The Antediluvians can counter this playstyle pretty hard though, thanks mainly to their fighters which come in wings of 4 and do NOT die to PD simply looking in their general direction. Having 4-5 wings of those things pewing away at your shields will drive even Neutrino shields up pretty fast and especially in the case of the exposed Neutrino ships, all that pepper fire will disable weapons and engines all over the place. Then the meatier Antediluvian ships catch up with their Solon guns and torpedoes and you find yourself dead pretty quick.


The Council Loyalists are known for being a spot above the rest, with 0.4-0.6 shields across the board and deceptively powerful weapons like the triple blasters, gladiator beams or the built-in weapons of the Defender, Alliance or Venator. All of which have the combined DPS of a light cruiser channeled into two mounted guns at their fronts. Even the Defender puts out about 1000 DPS on paper. Then add the RoF perk in there, damage skills and the skill that allows you to punch through armour faster and yeah.... That dinky frigate with Unstable Injectors can and will solo 4th level fleets. Davidoff is very freaking aware of it because there has been more than enough QQ about it. Ships like the Defender are being toned down for the next version of the Loyalists.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 05, 2013, 02:04:47 AM
its not me getting pumbled its my allies...and because the things stats are too high all the auto resolved battle from other fleets against it always lose...because they dont hardly take things like their weakness into account with fleets like this

Lopunny, I appreciate the feedback but as others have said it is quite easy to remove factions you do not like. In fact, you could download the NoFactions version and then download whichever supported faction mods you like and build your own faction list like that :) You just have to run the mods at the same time and Exerelin will detect the other mod(s) and allow you to use the factions.

Personally I have no issues with the OP'ness or UP'ness of certain factions; it doesn't detract from the experience for me, therefore I will not be removing/adjusting them.

The auto-resolve issues unfortunately impact more than just the Nihil. Alex has mentioned there will be a customizable auto-resolve plugin for StarSector 0.6, with which I will be able to tweak the results to give a more balanced outcome. In my mind this is the main issue, and I would fix it if I could.

Suggestion:

Why not tag some of the habitable planets as having population and "mine" them for crew?

Haha :P Well, I was thinking of recruitment fleets that go from stations to habitable planets to pick up recruits, dropping them back to stations thus turning them into marines/crew that way. Or maybe planets can be conquered by factions, and once conquered send out crew/marine supply fleets to friendly stations. Similar thing I guess.

--- snip ---
As a side note, are skills really this broken in Vanilla? That would solve half of my gripes. I never played Vanilla after the skills update came out, so I don't know if it's normal for you to just have a ship that can outrun anything while putting out as much DPS as two battleships combined.

Yeah the skills seem to make existing imbalances even worse :(

--- snip ---
All of which have the combined DPS of a light cruiser channeled into two mounted guns at their fronts. Even the Defender puts out about 1000 DPS on paper. Then add the RoF perk in there, damage skills and the skill that allows you to punch through armour faster and yeah....
--- snip ---

Yeah their weapons are slightly too powerful. Still, they are great fun to play against, and the designs are too good to just leave out :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Axiom on September 05, 2013, 11:25:46 AM
Easy remedy to playing an OP faction- Play Tri-Tachyon or Hegemony. The AI is incapable of truly abusing the broken-ness of a few of the factions, so it should be more challenging but not impossible. For additional challenge make sure your playing on "Player takes 100% damage"
in settings, and skill up your leadership skills or non pilot specific skills instead of those broken combat (or even more broken imho) tech skills.

If you do all of that, Fleet composition, weapons load out, Tactical awareness, and raw skill all count for a LOT more.

As to AI fleets getting pummeled- yeah, that sucks and there is nothing you can really do about it. The best way of dealing with it is to ensure your faction has the economy to rebuild faster and better then your enemy and/or  fly in and pick off half the enemy fleet just before they fight.

But that kind of comes back to "Tactical awareness and raw skill" right?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Borgoid on September 05, 2013, 11:16:45 PM
If you're after more challenge you might also consider not using any of the Nihil weapons or the Council Autoblasters as the break some of the basic mechanical "Rules" in that in the case of Nihil they're far too efficient in terms of Flux and OP->Damage -along with high range- and in the case of Autoblasters they're better than 1-1 hard flux generating energy weapons..... Compare them to the Heavy Blaster, Pulse Laser, Mining Blaster... Gedune Repeater, the built-in Scorpion, Photon Cannon... Well you get the idea.

Oh you might want to Avoid Light(And Medium if you can EVER find one) Blasters too from Council as they too are better than 1-1 hard flux generators but that's a bit more questionable as they're small with short(ish) range.

The Council ships are definitely powerful in terms of raw stats and design but they're MUCH harder to play with limited weaponry, you might also want to turn off the Omnifactory if you're the kind of person who's okay with terrible drop rates :P

Alternatively as suggested simply don't play AS the Council, you'll have to work MUCH harder to obtain their ships -especially without the omnifactory- and that in itself feels pretty damn rewarding
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MrDavidoff on September 06, 2013, 06:38:37 AM
Loyalists. Pls. Loyalists. Council Loyalists.
 ::) :D
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 06, 2013, 06:41:30 AM
or Hegemony_Core ::)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MrDavidoff on September 06, 2013, 08:05:48 AM
or Hegemony_Core ::)

Noone knows that, unles they dig inside the mods files :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 06, 2013, 11:41:13 AM
Anyway, is the insurrection bug with Valkyrians fixed in the next update Zaphide? because i haven't captured my 4th station yet and i've already had 2 insurrections and accidents in stations. :-\
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 06, 2013, 03:16:25 PM
Loyalists. Pls. Loyalists. Council Loyalists.
 ::) :D

haha coincidence? https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/commits/2fc007e5fec3930d821f7d8f64c8ae2b1ad2b9cc (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/commits/2fc007e5fec3930d821f7d8f64c8ae2b1ad2b9cc) :) (I did this just before your post!)

Still, I think people will still call them council over loyalists  :-\ we'll see

Anyway, is the insurrection bug with Valkyrians fixed in the next update Zaphide? because i haven't captured my 4th station yet and i've already had 2 insurrections and accidents in stations. :-\

Hmmm there is nothing specific that singles out and punishes the Valkyrians :P but maybe I need to dial down the chance of random events?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 06, 2013, 06:08:40 PM
well, there is totally something odd, because i played with interstellar federation to level 50, i didn't get a SINGLE insurrection, and then played with valks and i haven't captured my first 3 stations yet and boom double  insurrection and i lost.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Borgoid on September 07, 2013, 12:40:35 AM
I'll start calling them Loyalists the second that the visible names imply that they're called Loyalists :P

Frankly the insurrections aren't so bad... it's when the new factions entering the system declare war on you... every time... with three out-system fleets each... six times in a row... and you're playing Nomad with one station and your fleet consists of a Komodo.

Poor luck really... By the way is it possible for the out-system fleets bugger the hell off once they capture a station? As is they just float around being dicks until you yourself have something large enough to kill them which usually involves a Valk or Council(Muhaha) super-cruiser. The system doesn't seem to be able to handle them at all because of the nature of auto resolve fights, those fleets never get worn down.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: MrDavidoff on September 07, 2013, 10:25:12 AM
I'll start calling them Loyalists the second that the visible names imply that they're called Loyalists :P

Council Loyalists  :P (not just Bond.. James Bond  :D)

And yay..

haha coincidence? https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/commits/2fc007e5fec3930d821f7d8f64c8ae2b1ad2b9cc (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/commits/2fc007e5fec3930d821f7d8f64c8ae2b1ad2b9cc) :) (I did this just before your post!)

So.. in a way, double yay :D


Still, I think people will still call them council over loyalists  :-\ we'll see

Well, I guess then I will have to win a million in a lottery, buy lots of bean cans, chat with alex on his idea of lore(how stuff looked like before the
eletricity went off gates went down..) and make Remnant into full faction and actually make a true Council faction (which will be OP OP  ;) )

Edit - for if the Sarcasm was not obvious  :P Ive put up a sarcasm sign.
Spoiler
(http://www.downloadcheapapp.com/appimg/37638/sarcasm-sign-for-iphone-screenshot-1.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 07, 2013, 10:40:04 AM
They will be so overpowered, that overpowered factions will be balanced in compare. ::)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 08, 2013, 02:39:45 AM
v0.59 DEV Update 2
Now available for those that are interested. Like the previous DEV, this version of Exerelin does not include any modded factions. You can download the supported modded factions (including all those included with v0.58) and run those mods concurrently with Exerelin to include those factions in your Exerelin gameplay. This does have the added bonus of being able to use the most up-to-date versions of those mods.

Download: https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_DEV_NoFactions_v0.59.zip (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/downloads/Exerelin_DEV_NoFactions_v0.59.zip)

Main New Features
Changes to the station boarding mechanics. Marines now slug it out dice rolling for station ownership. Player fleets can conquer stations if they have the correct composition. Early support for Erick Doe's Zorg (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6522.0) and DarkAlbino's Qualljom Society (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6537.0) Work-In-Progress factions. As these factions are WIP I'm sure their authors would welcome any constructive feedback :)

Previous DEV changes are here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6053.msg106311#msg106311) (also listed below if interested). Note the previous DEV added support for the following faction mods:
Avan's Ceredia, Isora and Directorate (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=977.0) factions (NOTE: There are compatability issues between Avan's mod and the Tore Up Plenty and Interstellar Federation mods)
Verrius's  Shadow Order  (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3710.0)
Verrius's  Scrappers  (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1344.0)
TheCounter's  Independant Mining Faction  (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2673.0)
Erick Doe's Tore Up Plenty (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.0) start ship options

I suggest you don't try to include all the supported faction mods at once, but it is good to mix and match :)

If you do test out this version, please let me know if any issues you find :) Happy playing!

Mod Development
As before, it is unlikely I will release a stable included factions version before StarSector 0.6 rolls around. I will release further DEV versions if things are proceeding well. You can view what I'm working on  here (https://bitbucket.org/Zaphide/exerelin/issues?status=new&status=open). As always, if you would like to contribute to development please let me know :)

Changes
Code
v0.59 (DEV2)
 - Player can now take over stations (requires at least one superfreighter, one troop transport and minimum 3 ships total in fleet)
   - Hover fleet over station for one day to initiate boarding
 - Boarding fleets now use marines to fight defending marines
   - If attacking fleet loses all marines damage is taken by the attacking fleet
   - If defending station loses all marines station is taken over and the attacking fleet loses it's superfreighter and transport
 - AI controlled Boarding fleets now defend stations they take over
 - Player now starts with a boarding-capable fleet
   - Player faction does not start with a command fleet
   - Player must capture first station for their faction
 - Stations being boarded (within last 3 days) do not spawn fleets or generate resources
 - Station efficiency value increases amount of dropped off mined resources from mining fleets (if in bonus state)
 - Added elite fleets to factions that didn't have them specified
 - Added support for Zorg faction
 - Added support for Qualljom Society faction
 - Renamed Council -> Council Loyalists (Sorry MrDavidoff :) )
 - Amended fleet compositions for Pirates
 - Added additional ships and start ship to Isora faction

 - Changed color of abandoned faction so stations are visible on map at start
 - Changed faction respawn time to be time BETWEEN faction respawns rather than time till the first respawn and then every month afterwards
 - Changed number of attack/defense fleets to 1 per station
 - Changed patrol fleets to now attack/defend if their home station is threatened
   - Otherwise, they can attack/defend/raid
   - In peace they patrol

 - Fixed issue where portraits were not selectable on new game
 - Fixed issue starting a new game throwing a OutOfRange during system lookup on the detected sector change
 - Fixed neutrino support issue

 - Renamed Resource Convoys -> Logistics Convoys
 - A few performance improvements
 - Increased minimum wait time between system events

v0.59 (DEV1)
- Added EliteShips list for various factions that contains unbalanced or dreadnaught-style ships
  - Only spawn occasionally as part of a fleet, never delivered

- Fixed support for Relics (elder+purifer)
- Added support for Directorate (Avan's Mod)
- Added support for Isora (Avan's Mod)
- Added support for Ceredia (Avan's Mod)
- Added support for Independant Mining Faction
- Added support for Scrappers
- Added support for Shadow Order

- Updated Valkyrian supported version
- Updated Shadowyards HI supported version
- Updated Bushi supported version
- Updated Thule Legacy supported version
- Updated Tore Up Plenty supported version

- Renamed Out System Attack Fleet -> Command Fleet
- Command fleets now always defend even at start of game
- Renamed Out System Supply Convoy -> Supply Convoy
- Renamed InSystem Station Attack Fleet -> Boarding Fleet
- Renamed InSystem Supply Convoy -> Resource Convoy

 - Fixed check no rebels already in system when creating more rebels against faction
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Erick Doe on September 08, 2013, 05:07:01 AM
I love that you can now capture stations yourself!
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 08, 2013, 05:19:37 AM
I love that you can now capture stations yourself!

Yeah it is slowly getting there :)

Next thing I am working on is a skill tree for improving and leading your faction to victory, and a skill tree for improving your fleets mining/boarding capabilities.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 08, 2013, 05:37:03 AM
Quick change (sorry to those who have already downloaded):
I missed a couple of variants for Zorg ships.

I have updated the DEV_v0.59 download (same link).
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: sirboomalot on September 08, 2013, 05:40:15 AM
Just downloaded the new dev version and disregarded all warnings and recommendations by launching it with all the available mods but tore up plenty, and I seem to have encountered my first bug: asp and relic fleets are pursuing each other, overlapping each other, and seemingly pretending to fight, without anything actually happening to the fleets. There are about four overlapping fleets of medium size sitting in the exact same space "pursuing" each other whilst absolutely zero explosions happen whatsoever, and every now and then a fleet will temporarily break off only to immediately dive back into the pile of fleets.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 08, 2013, 05:50:43 AM
Just downloaded the new dev version and disregarded all warnings and recommendations by launching it with all the available mods but tore up plenty, and I seem to have encountered my first bug: asp and relic fleets are pursuing each other, overlapping each other, and seemingly pretending to fight, without anything actually happening to the fleets. There are about four overlapping fleets of medium size sitting in the exact same space "pursuing" each other whilst absolutely zero explosions happen whatsoever, and every now and then a fleet will temporarily break off only to immediately dive back into the pile of fleets.

Thanks I'll check it out :)

EDIT: Ah OK I see the problem. Maybe avoid the Relics until I can get a fix together :)
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 08, 2013, 06:34:29 AM
with the dev version, the option to select how many planets/stations/ belts and stuff is gone, you also cannot select what faction you want to play, i suspect this is intended?

also, it doesn't work, because it spawns 3 stations on a game start, but 4 factions are spawned (with yours included) so 1 faction will wander around forever looking for a station.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Erick Doe on September 08, 2013, 06:59:36 AM
with the dev version, the option to select how many planets/stations/ belts and stuff is gone, you also cannot select what faction you want to play, i suspect this is intended?

also, it doesn't work, because it spawns 3 stations on a game start, but 4 factions are spawned (with yours included) so 1 faction will wander around forever looking for a station.

I do not have this issue. I can select those options just fine.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 08, 2013, 07:44:19 AM
Then i must have screwed something up :P
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Zaphide on September 08, 2013, 02:36:04 PM
with the dev version, the option to select how many planets/stations/ belts and stuff is gone, you also cannot select what faction you want to play, i suspect this is intended?

also, it doesn't work, because it spawns 3 stations on a game start, but 4 factions are spawned (with yours included) so 1 faction will wander around forever looking for a station.

Hmmm it sounds like you might be playing with a mod that overrides the character creation stuff. Those are the default options.

Exerelin (although not a Total Conversion) will not play-nice with any mod that overrides the character creation options.

Which mods are you playing with?
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: ValkyriaL on September 08, 2013, 06:36:43 PM
all of em! =D il remove em and try again.
Title: Re: [0.54.1a] Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.58
Post by: Tchey on September 09, 2013, 01:13:53 AM
Hi there,

I'm running the last StarSector 54.1a release Linux version. I'm using Linux Lubuntu on a laptop and the vanilla game runs great.

I wanted to play again after several months away from Starsector, and try some mods. So, i D/L the LazyLib and unzip it to my /mods folder, and do the same with Exerelin. I have nothing more installed,

Then, i selected both mods from the game's mods menu.

And it crashed.

Quote
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [graphics/portraits/Nihil.png] resource, not found in [/home/tchey/Jeux/starsector/./mods/Exerelin,/home/tchey/Jeux/starsector/./mods/LazyLib,../starfarer.res/res,CLASSPATH]<