Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ginjarou on January 21, 2012, 03:19:58 AM

Title: Predator or Prey
Post by: Ginjarou on January 21, 2012, 03:19:58 AM
I'm really struggling in the Predator or Prey mission.
My main problem is that my entire fleet just instantly flies to their death straight away and there's nearly nothing I can do about it.

If I tell them to assault the closest buoy they fly way ahead of me and end up dying before I've even got there. My frigate particularly dies no matter what I do. It flies a little faster than my flag ship but takes a load of torpedoes and instantly dies.

The only way I've managed to last more than a few minutes is by creating a defend waypoint right at the start as a way to muster my units and stop them from flying ahead of me. However they still spread out and die instantly as soon as the enemy approaches.

Any suggestions?  ???
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Kommodore Krieg on January 21, 2012, 07:36:57 AM
I struggled with this one a lot too.  The key is to destroy the carrier as soon as possible, pretty much ignoring everything else.  I did this by sending my fleet to the middle point with an assault order, with carrier rallied slightly behind.  They are basically just there to draw fire while you close on his carrier.  Keep shields down unless a torpedo strike needs to be blocked for maximum speed.  Once you know where his carrier is, line it up and start launching torpedoes.  They have a very long range so if you line it up well you can hit him from off screen.  If he doesn't get his shields up in time 3 torpedoes can kill him outright.  Once the carrier is down it's just cleanup.  If you DON'T get the carrier down fast, the fighter/bomber swarm will just whittle you down after they destroy the rest of your fleet, which just can't stand up to the wasp drones.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: floatercommander on January 21, 2012, 11:11:58 AM
I beat it by ordering my carrier near the nav buoy, sending all the fighters to escort it and hunting down the bomber wings. Then it was a simple matter of landing a torpedo volley on the carrier. You'll lose most or all of your fighters in any case, it's just a question of trading them for enemy bombers, since they're the only thing that can kill you.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: stonehand on January 21, 2012, 08:06:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0eIbZYiGzc

100% win by DukeVonBathrobe
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Ginjarou on January 22, 2012, 04:14:40 AM
Quote from: stonehand on January 21, 2012, 08:06:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0eIbZYiGzc

100% win by DukeVonBathrobe

Impressive! Still it's a shame you have to keep all your other ships at the very bottom of the screen like that  :-\
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Dark Neuron on January 22, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Alex can we get a "BE VERY CAREFUL"-order - to use when we know we are up against the wall?
The way your fleet just suicide in this mission makes it kinda hard. :)

Anyway, its just a thought. :)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Ginjarou on January 23, 2012, 05:36:25 AM
Quote from: Dark Neuron on January 22, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Alex can we get a "BE VERY CAREFUL"-order - to use when we know we are up against the wall?
The way your fleet just suicide in this mission makes it kinda hard. :)

Anyway, its just a thought. :)

Haha, agreed.

At the very least I think your units should stick with you until you give them orders or you should be able to have formations.
Formations would be good so you could have light units on the outside to protect to bigger ships and to deal with incoming torpedoes and such.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Icelom on January 23, 2012, 07:21:41 PM
Quote from: Ginjarou on January 23, 2012, 05:36:25 AM
Quote from: Dark Neuron on January 22, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Alex can we get a "BE VERY CAREFUL"-order - to use when we know we are up against the wall?
The way your fleet just suicide in this mission makes it kinda hard. :)

Anyway, its just a thought. :)

Haha, agreed.

At the very least I think your units should stick with you until you give them orders or you should be able to have formations.
Formations would be good so you could have light units on the outside to protect to bigger ships and to deal with incoming torpedoes and such.

In situations like that i asign escort orders, then give specific orders to the ships i want to escort me. Its all about use of command points, i have assigned a wing of fighters to escort the ship i am flying on many ocasions just to help with bombers and torpedoes and what not.

The tools to do what you want are there, its just a matter of choice, gaurd me? or go capture that thingy doodle, or do whatever you want at the cost of zero command points.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Cryten on January 24, 2012, 05:41:23 AM
Quote from: Ginjarou on January 23, 2012, 05:36:25 AM
Quote from: Dark Neuron on January 22, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Alex can we get a "BE VERY CAREFUL"-order - to use when we know we are up against the wall?
The way your fleet just suicide in this mission makes it kinda hard. :)

Anyway, its just a thought. :)

Haha, agreed.

At the very least I think your units should stick with you until you give them orders or you should be able to have formations.
Formations would be good so you could have light units on the outside to protect to bigger ships and to deal with incoming torpedoes and such.

Caww you just reminded me of a very cool thing. Good old babylon 5, dreadnaughts and cruisers would carry fighter wings and they would act as a screen intercepting heavy weapons fire with thier bullets and if not with thier spaceships. a cruiser/dreadnaught with out its fighter screen would be heavily vulnerable to spaces naturally super long range weaponry since gravity does not dimish payload only increase time till impact (and thus evasion /interception chances)

I loved watching those super long range fights where even 2-4 heavy impacts would sink a ship and so much was involved in intercepting weapons fire. It would be cool to have a fighter wing in Starfarer act as a screen in a similar fashion. Surrounding the captial ship except in its front weapon arcs providing cover fire to heavy ballistics.

Thanks for the cool image even if its not really that much to do with Starfarer. Ahh Nostalgia Trips.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: icepick37 on January 24, 2012, 09:33:05 AM
They do shoot down missiles and stuff if they are escorting you, right?
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: mendonca on January 24, 2012, 09:59:50 AM
Quote from: icepick37 on January 24, 2012, 09:33:05 AM
They do shoot down missiles and stuff if they are escorting you, right?
They do, if they have 'PD' weaponry, and they are flying near a missile or torpedo. They don't, if they have ran off to engage with something else. Not sure how the escort duty proritises positioning etc. but I suspect, especially for fighter escorts, there is a lot that could and will be done AI wise.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Sinloth on January 26, 2012, 09:43:49 PM
Yes! I've finally done it! Yesterday I must have sat at Predator or Prey for about 2 hours. In that time, I had three successfull goes... yes, THREE only! The first one was 54%, I lost many wings, then 59% where I lost one wing less and then I finally after a few more times scored a hundred! Initially I started with the same strategy that is presented in 100% Predator or Prey video somewhere here on the forum, hiding my carrier and wings by the edge of the map and taking care of a few enemy wings in my flagship. It's still a lot luck based because in the vid he gets attacked by one wing and then there comes a bomber wing which he disposes off and then calls Search and Destroy and goes straight for enemy Ephemeral carrier, whilst you'll often be engaged by 4+ wings at the same time right after you get to the first buoy. However, I did learn to control my flagship like never before yesterday, venting Flux as often as safe and neccesary, turning shield on just to take those few missiles that would really hurt me and turn it off immediately after not to get into an overload. Oh yes... Strategy is a basic, but the tactics... Starfarer truly is such an amazing game, my respect for it grows every day, although I spent majority of time last evening getting my ass kicked :)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: elite24 on August 08, 2012, 03:15:38 PM
Hey, I don't know if anyone's noticed yet, but it the new update (0.53a) this mission has become a lot harder. With the AI improvements and the new ship systems (the omen is much more deadly with the emp emitter and the astral is very hard to touch with its much improved point defense system).
I haven't been able to crack it, and all the old strategies don't quite work like they used too (try destroying the Astral by piloting your piloting your dominator right up to it... not so easy huh). Just wondering if anyone has figured out how to beat the mission yet. Thanks.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 08, 2012, 03:34:18 PM
Quote from: elite24 on August 08, 2012, 03:15:38 PM
Hey, I don't know if anyone's noticed yet, but it the new update (0.53a) this mission has become a lot harder. With the AI improvements and the new ship systems (the omen is much more deadly with the emp emitter and the astral is very hard to touch with its much improved point defense system).
I haven't been able to crack it, and all the old strategies don't quite work like they used too (try destroying the Astral by piloting your piloting your dominator right up to it... not so easy huh). Just wondering if anyone has figured out how to beat the mission yet. Thanks.

Yeah i beat it. Using tripple proximity charge is the key here, and having your entire fleet hang back for a while until you have dealt with the fighters. Then you use Mark IXs to kill the astral, and send your entire fleet to hunt the Omen.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Tarran on August 08, 2012, 03:39:50 PM
I beat it by making my main guns Needlers and having two twin flak and Auxiliary Thrusters, and attempting to destroy as many fighters and bombers as possible while sacrificing my other ships. The Omen is a particular problem, make sure to nail that as soon as you get the chance because it will give you A LOT of trouble if the Astral still has MIRV missiles and it will give your light ships a lot of trouble. The Astral and it's remaining Wasp wings was my last target.

When fighting, I actually ran out of Needler and missile ammo. What did I have left? My Vulcan guns. I had to knock out the Astral with Vulcans. And I actually did fairly significant damage before it got it's shield up again. Then it actually ran away from me off the map and I won. I captured it after the battle, funnily enough.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 08, 2012, 04:07:58 PM
Well guys this is the best i could do.

(http://i.imgur.com/NejFY.png)

Could probably do 100% if i tried abit more.

(If someone asks nice enough il may be reveal the genius strategy.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: elite24 on August 08, 2012, 04:52:37 PM
I just beat the mission a little while ago. I basically turned my dominator into a fighter mauler and used annihilator pods to overwhelm the astral's point defense and enemy fighters. I had storm needlers on the front and vulcan cannons in all the small emplacements. I never though about phase charges, I'll have to try them out. Thanks for the help guys.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Tarran on August 08, 2012, 05:17:21 PM
Quote from: Faiter119 on August 08, 2012, 04:07:58 PM
Well guys this is the best i could do.
Well, it's a hell of a lot better than I did. My Enforcer was the only survivor in my case.

Also, I like how you're putting your rear to the Astral.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 08, 2012, 05:23:04 PM
Oh you thought that was my best? NO!

(http://i.imgur.com/Mwg0Z.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/MEc5Q.jpg)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Thaago on August 08, 2012, 06:48:57 PM
Boom! Got one better! It was really hard to do but once you know the trick its not too bad!

(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1831/porp.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/porp.png/)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Tarran on August 08, 2012, 10:45:19 PM
Wait, what? There's secrets in missions?
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Avan on August 08, 2012, 11:34:17 PM
O_O
How... 110%... what?
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Reshy on August 09, 2012, 12:08:39 AM
Secrets???
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: DeMatt on August 09, 2012, 12:33:05 AM
I call shenanigans.
Spoiler
The Hound got mirrored, I assume deliberately.
[close]
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Tarran on August 09, 2012, 12:59:28 AM
Quote from: DeMatt on August 09, 2012, 12:33:05 AM
I call shenanigans.
Spoiler
The Hound got mirrored, I assume deliberately.
[close]
Oh, oh. I see. Tricky Thaago, I see that similar Dominator.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 09, 2012, 05:03:25 AM
No lol there are no secrets, he just edited my image.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Upgradecap on August 09, 2012, 06:39:29 AM
Quote from: Faiter119 on August 09, 2012, 05:03:25 AM
No lol there are no secrets, he just edited my image.

He didn't. You lost a broadsword. he didn't, however, could someone inform me on what exactly the shenanigan was? :D
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: arcibalde on August 09, 2012, 06:44:08 AM
Quote from: Upgradecap on August 09, 2012, 06:39:29 AM
He didn't. You lost a broadsword. he didn't, however, could someone inform me on what exactly the shenanigan was? :D

Watch carefully this image:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=555.msg57520#msg57520

He didn't lost anything. He wouldn't get 100% if he lost something.

shenanigan is nasty eye blood limit from Naruto anime. Really messy stuff. Don't go there you are way to young :)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 09, 2012, 07:01:17 AM
Quote from: Upgradecap on August 09, 2012, 06:39:29 AM
Quote from: Faiter119 on August 09, 2012, 05:03:25 AM
No lol there are no secrets, he just edited my image.

He didn't. You lost a broadsword. he didn't, however, could someone inform me on what exactly the shenanigan was? :D


(http://i.imgur.com/Mwg0Z.png)


Please tell me where i lost a Broadsword?

EDIT: You was probably referring to my first image. Look at my second one. And then look how his background combat is awkwardly the same, except for the image flipped.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Thaago on August 09, 2012, 09:56:04 AM
Haha yeah I'm just messing with you guys. I guess what I should have done was to play the mission myself to get a new background (the Dominator being the same is a giveaway :P) and they Gimp in the words and score. The horizontal line overlay meant that all I could do was flip the hound.

Can you spot all the differences? :D
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Tarran on August 09, 2012, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: Thaago on August 09, 2012, 09:56:04 AM
Haha yeah I'm just messing with you guys. I guess what I should have done was to play the mission myself to get a new background
Yeah, that would have fooled us even worse. :P

Quote from: Thaago on August 09, 2012, 09:56:04 AM
Can you spot all the differences? :D
Hound is on the other side, the destroyed Wasp on the right hand side under the hound is missing, and a Wasp is captured instead of the Omen. Oh, and of course the text is changed.

Don't see anything else.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Doom101 on August 15, 2012, 11:54:39 PM
See if he had gotten a changed background even if the secret was a lie Alex could have trolled us so hard by coming here and congratulating him to be the first one to find the aforementioned secret.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: mendonca on August 16, 2012, 02:24:59 AM
I was having a few goes at this last night - thought I would ease myself in with a custom fit-out on the Dominator.

I've got three words to explain how I got on:

Ha, ha and ha  :D

That damn Omen is an absolute pest.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 16, 2012, 02:26:24 AM
Quote from: mendonca on August 16, 2012, 02:24:59 AM
I was having a few goes at this last night - thought I would ease myself in with a custom fit-out on the Dominator.

I've got three words to explain how I got on:

Ha, ha and ha  :D

That damn Omen is an absolute pest.

Any good scores? :)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: mendonca on August 16, 2012, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: Faiter119 on August 16, 2012, 02:26:24 AM
Any good scores? :)

I didn't even come close to winning. I was starting to feel sorry for my poor, eternally blunted Dominator  :'(
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on August 16, 2012, 02:35:59 AM
Quote from: mendonca on August 16, 2012, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: Faiter119 on August 16, 2012, 02:26:24 AM
Any good scores? :)

I didn't even come close to winning. I was starting to feel sorry for my poor, eternally blunted Dominator  :'(

Yeah i probably spent 1 hour getting it right, but when i did...

Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/Mwg0Z.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Tarran on August 16, 2012, 02:37:01 AM
Quote from: mendonca on August 16, 2012, 02:24:59 AM
That damn Omen is an absolute pest.
Yeah, that Omen is horrible. The only time I've killed it was because it spent too much time in range of my needlers. Every other time it either ran away or I died.

I suggest putting priority on it after killing all the bombers. It's the single most dangerous thing after them. Not even the Astral is as dangerous as that thing. I mean, sure, the Astral and MIRV you, but chances are the only time you'll be getting hit on the armor and hull by those is when you're turned the wrong way... like after the Omen EMPs you.
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: TJJ on August 16, 2012, 04:05:43 AM
So has anyone managed it with default load outs in 0.53a?
Even a 1% victory is worth mentioning! ;D
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: Faiter119 on October 01, 2012, 07:18:07 AM
Undeniably proof has been acquired :)

New mission showcase about this mission!

100%! (http://youtu.be/_A6rOGHVYdo)
Title: Re: Predator or Prey
Post by: TJJ on March 05, 2017, 03:13:51 PM
Quote from: TJJ on August 16, 2012, 04:05:43 AM
So has anyone managed it with default load outs in 0.53a?
Even a 1% victory is worth mentioning! ;D

Thought I'd have another go at this before the .8 fighter revamp totally changes the mission.

Stock loadouts; 74%.
As you can see from my fleet, and hull, it was a close fight :)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WOuwQDPa6zCtqCfgPrhIEwKb3DtDeHsmGcgOXkh8QDFMd5zZ1Hw5tPe3mpYXtMmYpjLNOo1fTeerGdc=w1920-h960-rw)

Tbh though it was mostly a battle of wills.
My will to get the ships to do what I wanted them to..... and the AI's will to do the complete opposite; usually ending in death.

With a little more care, and luck, 100% with stock loadout should be perfectly achievable. (though you'll probably have to retreat your frigates when they hit low CR)

General strategy:

The trickiest parts are making sure: