Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Suggestions => Topic started by: CrashToDesktop on November 25, 2012, 09:28:41 AM

Title: New Crew Types
Post by: CrashToDesktop on November 25, 2012, 09:28:41 AM
Since there's now character skills and aptitudes, why not add crew that provide a similar benfit?  There might be Engineers, who improve weapon reapairs during battle and improve ship repair/hull mod attaching outside of combat.  There might be a Logistics Officer, who adds command points or adds fleet points.  Of course, just one one these crew wouldn't provide the same effect as an aptitude point or skill point.  You might need more of each, perhaps 50 or 100 of them, to provide the same bonus.  They wouldn't affect if you could add more skill points to an aptitude, though.

They also might not count as regular crew, so having 50 of them would not crew a lasher or a wolf.  They also would need more crew ot cargo space to hold them, to house thier items that make them special.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Coolrah on November 25, 2012, 12:48:31 PM
I think something along the lines of what your suggesting would work for the game.  They may not have to necessarily be crew but they could be special equipment/artifacts/ ect that give arbitrary bonuses to yer fleet or individual ships. These items can be destroyed/lost in certain cases such maybe you losing a particular ship in combat which has the item onboard. (Not tryna hijack your suggestion or anything just offering alternatives if someone may not like the crew idea)
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Thaago on November 25, 2012, 12:50:56 PM
I'm not so in favor of this because there will be officers we can place on each ship - I think crew types in addition to that would lead to way too much micro... maybe its just me.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: arcibalde on November 25, 2012, 12:53:39 PM
I'm not so in favor of this because there will be officers we can place on each ship - I think crew types in addition to that would lead to way too much micro... maybe its just me.
This. We will have officers for that.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Gothars on November 25, 2012, 12:56:44 PM
Was there ever any mention what officers will do? 'cause I have no clue...
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: CrashToDesktop on November 25, 2012, 02:16:17 PM
There is a tab for them. :) I suppose they're going in.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Gothars on November 25, 2012, 02:37:00 PM
There is a tab for them. :) I suppose they're going in.

Well, that I know, but there are no clues what Officers will do in the end, are there?

The only thing I can guess is that they will somehow be related to /represent the (afaik deactivated) AI personalities.


Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: CrashToDesktop on November 25, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
Hmm...yea.

Anyways, back on topic, I just want to know how everyone might react to a way of getting the skills without leveling up.  The crew would be about as expensive as elite crew, if not more, to keep people form spamming them, and might be rarer then them.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Talkie Toaster on November 25, 2012, 03:06:32 PM
Well, that I know, but there are no clues what Officers will do in the end, are there?
The only thing I can guess is that they will somehow be related to /represent the (afaik deactivated) AI personalities.
Well, pretty sure Alex mentioned that the skills are set up such that they can be applied to AI fleets as well as the player one. So, they could just be NPCs using the same rules. Not quite sure how that'd interact with effects like the +OP ones, perhaps some skills will be PC-only or perhaps only the 'Admiral' of a fleet can have their fleet-wide abilities active and everyone else's would only affect their own ship?
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: naufrago on November 26, 2012, 09:49:30 AM
My guess is that if there's an overlap in fleet-wide skill bonuses, only the highest would take effect.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Veneke on November 26, 2012, 03:13:18 PM
This is pretty much what I thought Officers were going to be - minor characters that provide bonuses to the specific ship(/outpost?) that they're posted on.

There are only two different crew types that might be worth including: 1. A separate fighter/bomber crew unit. 2. An officers crew unit. However, Crew is rather abstracted at the moment and works rather well so I'm not even sure if any such a distinction is warranted.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: CrashToDesktop on November 26, 2012, 03:36:35 PM
More crew that specializes in different things is that thought that I have.  Fighter crews are welcome, and I'm not even sure if Officers would even count as crew (they're commanding a ship, just like your do).
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Hopelessnoob on November 26, 2012, 04:21:19 PM
How would we promote crew to these spots would it be the same way with just randomly selected jobs or could we promote individually? Either way would be great.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: ThePinkPanzer on November 26, 2012, 04:39:10 PM
Hmm...yea.

Anyways, back on topic, I just want to know how everyone might react to a way of getting the skills without leveling up.  The crew would be about as expensive as elite crew, if not more, to keep people form spamming them, and might be rarer then them.

Rookie engineer, regular engineer, veteran engineer, elite engineer?
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: CrashToDesktop on November 26, 2012, 04:43:13 PM
Not really leveling up.  They're just there to provide support that's not directly related to combat.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Veneke on November 26, 2012, 04:52:11 PM
More crew that specializes in different things is that thought that I have.  Fighter crews are welcome, and I'm not even sure if Officers would even count as crew (they're commanding a ship, just like your do).

Sorry, I should've been clearer. When I said an officers crew type, I mean junior officers (executive officers, department heads etc). A crew type that would give a small overall boost to the crew perhaps only in a few areas. The purpose of this, such as I've given any thought to it at all, would be to offset some of the overall experience loss moving from a smaller vessel to a larger one, reducing the number of regular crew needed to man a ship (which could be interesting as a smaller crew is unlikely to have the same staying power in terms of damage as a larger one, officers or not) or something in that vein.

This is, of course, based on the presumption that the to-be-implemented officers feature deals with high-ranking officers like fleet quartermasters, captains etc.


The biggest problem with adding in new crew types at all, however, is that I'm struggling to see a need for their inclusion. Yeah, they're interesting but it could very well be that Officers (the to-be-implemented feature) will satisfy all of our desires on this point.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: ArkAngel on November 27, 2012, 04:46:24 AM
Adding extra crew we be a rpgish addition so why not? I say medical crew would be a cool thing
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Gothars on November 27, 2012, 05:43:53 AM
I don't get what we would need specialized crew for. Sounds as if it would just add needless complexity, like splitting up supplies in multiple categories.

We already have fleet size, ship loadout, crew level, character level and possibly officers for rpg-like progression, isn't that enough? Now I'd rather see more fleshing out of the universe to utilize all that improvement.

Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: CrashToDesktop on November 27, 2012, 12:53:32 PM
First, the Universe, then the crew. :)
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: ThePinkPanzer on November 27, 2012, 05:25:38 PM
I don't get what we would need specialized crew for. Sounds as if it would just add needless complexity, like splitting up supplies in multiple categories.

We already have fleet size, ship loadout, crew level, character level and possibly officers for rpg-like progression, isn't that enough? Now I'd rather see more fleshing out of the universe to utilize all that improvement.

in order for it to be overly complex it would need to be moderately complex to start. Ship load out and fleet sizes are necessary for the game, I don't see why expanding the crew system hurts anyone.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: DJ Die on November 28, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
yeah i thought about this as well.....
it would be good if you had different crew requirements i.e. an onslaught would require quite a few normal crewmen and gunners while ships like a paragon would require more engineers....
the general crew we have now could add some bonuses just like they do now but if you put the specialist in their place the bonus would be somewhat higher...
so you would still need 400 crew to fully man an onslaught but you could add/replace some engineers for better engine and shield performance, gunners for better spread etc.
specialists should be more expensive and almost never available at any level except green as new graduates and would require way more exp to level up than regular crew
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Cosmitz on November 28, 2012, 02:47:43 AM
A good alternative would be to upgrade Elites into specializations. That would create a flow of crew instead of the bottling up at Elite and sitting with unused 200 veterans/regulars.

Though we would need, and actually appreciate, setting a particular number of crew per ship instead of the way crew is assigned now.. left to right ships based on fleet screen.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: JT on November 28, 2012, 03:03:07 AM
I wonder if the features that get rolled into the officers when they get added could simply be altered to apply also to the crew -- i.e., that crew would be subbed from the exact same type as officers, with the only difference being that the crew's benefit would be proportional to their percentage out of the entirety of the crew instead of simply an all-or-nothing affair like an officer. Therefore they would simply have a single flag denoting them as either "crew" or "officer" which determines which inventory tab they should appear in, whether they have the uniqueness of officers (assuming that officers will learn just like the player does), and whether this proportionality applies (all-or-nothing, or based on percentage of crew complement).

That way, even though the core game likely will *not* specialise crew types, you get to roll the same features into the crew without any significant addition of work: it flows naturally from the work done on the officers system. That enables modders to "over-complicate" the crew if they so desire, creating a wonderful have-cake-and-eat-it-too scenario.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: ThePinkPanzer on December 08, 2012, 04:25:30 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/FltQi.png)(http://i.imgur.com/ZvDYs.png)(http://i.imgur.com/htae7.png)(http://i.imgur.com/qlJfG.png)(http://i.imgur.com/zDrsS.png)(http://i.imgur.com/P9MC3.png)(http://i.imgur.com/DGIST.png)
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: theSONY on December 08, 2012, 04:46:04 PM
I remember when i was posting about that idea but then every one was like
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNRkzU_59JR5OOFktRfd-3dKHejlpH43cM6_7n5DKVzQZmqxMQ)
oh well, things change  :D
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: BillyRueben on December 08, 2012, 04:50:22 PM
oh well, things change  :D
They haven't.

Still against this idea, and this
I don't get what we would need specialized crew for. Sounds as if it would just add needless complexity...
is still the same reasoning I have.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: jimy on December 09, 2012, 12:06:30 PM
I don't think the game is too complex that this would hurt anyone.
The thing is those crew members should feel more like real humans than a second sort of supplies.
And adding special kinds would force the player to spend time thinking what crew members he should get on his ship rather than just selecting a pile of 50 items that you need to keep your ship combat ready.

This may sound like the job of the officiers but I imagine them more of a coordinator than someone who does something.
A single doctor for example wouldn't be able to increase effectivly the medical knowledge of a lot of greenies. For sure they would know a little bit more about first aid and stuff but this won't make a big difference. But if you give him a team of capable medics he can run a highly efficient medic bay and save lots of lifes.

Sorry for my bad english. :)
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Upgradecap on December 09, 2012, 12:11:42 PM
I don't think the game is too complex that this would hurt anyone.
The thing is those crew members should feel more like real humans than a second sort of supplies.

Question is, though, do we really need to feel the crew as real humans? Remember that your standard capital has ~800-1000 crewmen aboard. Do we really need every average John Doe aboard that ship to feel like a real human? I think it is fine to have the commanding officers feel like human and all that, but having a thousand crewmembers onboard a capital just seems redundant. This problem would increase aswell when you have an trade corp/empire set up, as it requires enormous levels of micro-ing the supplies then.

In short, i oppose this idea simply because it feels redundant having every crewmember feel like a real human. I would be fine with the officers feeling like that, though.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: BillyRueben on December 09, 2012, 12:12:57 PM
I want to play Starfarer, not The Sims: In Space.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: ThePinkPanzer on December 09, 2012, 12:57:10 PM
I want to play Starfarer, not The Sims: In Space.

How the hell would it be the sims at all? You aren't customizing them, you aren't intricately designing their lives. Useless overreactions like this add nothing to suggestion posts.

I don't think the game is too complex that this would hurt anyone.
The thing is those crew members should feel more like real humans than a second sort of supplies.

Question is, though, do we really need to feel the crew as real humans? Remember that your standard capital has ~800-1000 crewmen aboard. Do we really need every average John Doe aboard that ship to feel like a real human? I think it is fine to have the commanding officers feel like human and all that, but having a thousand crewmembers onboard a capital just seems redundant. This problem would increase aswell when you have an trade corp/empire set up, as it requires enormous levels of micro-ing the supplies then.

In short, i oppose this idea simply because it feels redundant having every crewmember feel like a real human. I would be fine with the officers feeling like that, though.

I don't think we should give them all individual names and back stories and have to write their loved ones about their deaths after they die or anything but it could certainly be fleshed out a slight tad so it isn't just "welp six hundred people died, no biggy, just gonna go buy another six hundred."
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Cosmitz on December 09, 2012, 01:10:29 PM
Or 'damn it, need a hundred credits more to finish up this ship build.. hey, how do you like those strong specimens over there, worth enough for that extra antimatter blaster?'.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: BillyRueben on December 09, 2012, 01:36:44 PM
I want to play Starfarer, not The Sims: In Space.

How the hell would it be the sims at all? You aren't customizing them, you aren't intricately designing their lives. Useless overreactions like this add nothing to suggestion posts.

Overreactions indeed. The way it works now is simple: put the ships you want given the best crew first in the your fleet list, and the game does the rest for you. I like it this way, because it minimizes the amount of time I have to spend doing management crap and it gets me back in to the action faster. If you add multiple crew types, the game wouldn't know on what ship you want your gunners on, what ship you want your navigators on, ect.  Which means that you'll be manually assigning crewmen. Not fun.

"Oh, but what about the buffs they give?" We already have crew experience levels, character skills/apptititudes, and (Coming Soon!) officer... "bonuses". Not to mention the slew of hull mods. How many more buffs do we really need?

I don't think we should give them all individual names and back stories and have to write their loved ones about their deaths after they die or anything but it could certainly be fleshed out a slight tad so it isn't just "welp six hundred people died, no biggy, just gonna go buy another six hundred."
I cringe every time I lose elite crewmen in a fight (and I don't like losing Veterans either). Granted, I don't really care when I lose green or regular crewmen, because they are so easily replaced, but losing too many can really cripple you.
Title: Re: New Crew Types
Post by: Rowanas on December 09, 2012, 02:12:35 PM
I'm also not a huge fan of extra crew types, as Reuben says, when do we have enough bonuses? I've got hullmods, crew levels, captains, skills, ship designs, formations and nodes. What will more-extra-uber-additional-doubleplusgood-crew do? I'm happy with the amount of micromanagement I have to do, and when you put something like this in, it becomes either mandatory or meaningless. Leave it to the mods.