Honestly i haven't used the phase ships much, mostly because they are generally useless. since they are so vulnerable without shields and you can't do anything while phased AND your flux is pretty much a delayed deaths sentence. 1v1 works, sure, but anything more than that is kinda useless. IMHO it all comes down to Dakka: When there is not enough Dakka means you need more Dakka.
hell, i should make a video for you folks.
hell, i should make a video for you folks.DOOOOO IIITTT :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Particularly for that sodding 'Doom' class….
As far as I can tell its worthless. Just about anything else is better i.e. costs less, easier to use, provides better results.
Particularly for that sodding 'Doom' class….
As far as I can tell its worthless. Just about anything else is better i.e. costs less, easier to use, provides better results.
This isn't true!
I ran a simulation and found that if you replace the 4 sabot missiles with 4 light needlers you can quite easily go toe to toe with a Dominator.
Just use the needler to take down the shields and, provided you have better aim than I do, let the reaper torpedoes do the talking. Repeat this process a few times and then BOOM! Its not hard.
I very much doubt that a doom could go 1v1 with it.It can 1v1. Great. Awesome.
Dominator's a cruiser IIRC.
ya... unless that thing can 1v1 an onslaught (equal FP) it doesn't really pull its weight...
plus it can only fight for so long if it relies on reapers as main damage dealer...
A speed bonus while phased would be kinda fun.Also added maneuverability. As it is, it's not always easy to approach a capital ship from behind. They just keep turning and you have to keep up. Perhaps easy for some of you pro pilots, but I'm merely average.
So the entire point of phase ships is the alpha strike. They are very good at it. Since they can phase out they can choose the perfect moment to strike.
They are amazing when used properly, but it's fine if you don't like them. They aren't for everyone.
I dare say that Alpha Strike is almost useless in Starfarer, most of the time. Exceptions being 1 vs. 1 battles (only simulation case, or very early in campaign), or enemy venting/overloading (that's what for we have Harpoons). Every other time, there is little use of massive alpha, because you can take the damage on shields and run&vent (as long as you are as fast/faster than enemy). It's the prolonged fire that works best (on shields). If that wouldn't be the case, we would all use Antimatter Blasters instead of Pulse Lasers.Alpha Strike is impossible with the current balancing. If there was a way to cumulatively generate more ships and blow them up more often at the same time (net result stays the same~ish) then Alpha Strikes would be more useful. If the survivability of ships decreases together with their acquisition effort, or increase firepower together with cost to have it then we could have something like that. Increase the number of ships available, make the cheaper, increase the cost and damage of weapons, increase shield efficiency while at the same time reduce it's effectiveness (less flux per dmg + less hitpoints/speed/arcº), etc... A number of things must change at the same time to keep the game balanced and allowing for alpha strikes.
In order to take advantage of huge alpha strike, you need to either overload enemy ship or make him vent. Both are pretty much impossible in Doom, or not very effective (mega sabot salvo works for shields, but what after that, to take down armour?). You could make one of your allied ships fight with the enemy, while you wait phased in. But hey, good luck pulling that off with Doom, and making it worth the trouble.
Phase frigates, fine, I see their use. Doom? Not so much.
I haven't used phase ships since patch-day mega-testing, when I came to realise that I'm not spending FP effectively if using them. A Tempest will most of the time perform better than Shade or Afflictor, because it can outrun rockets, evade projectiles, and shield itself from other threats (such as beams, or fast fighters).
Uhh, sorry for messy post.
But that would change the whole pace and feel of the game. Would be more arcady, more call-of-duty (lol). Part of the game is knowing that there are people inside those ships, and those ships are big. Trivialising their lifetime would trivialise alot of what the game stands for. So moving forward i don't think alpha strikes are going to matter at all.
PPS: Hey Alex, you gotta make tiny little people flying off our spaceships whenever a rocked smashes into the armor and vents the atmosphere in those compartments, hence the crew lost at the end of a fight.They did that in SPAZ and it looked pretty weird. I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea.
So the entire point of phase ships is the alpha strike. They are very good at it. Since they can phase out they can choose the perfect moment to strike.
They are amazing when used properly, but it's fine if you don't like them. They aren't for everyone.
I dare say that Alpha Strike is almost useless in Starfarer, most of the time. Exceptions being 1 vs. 1 battles (only simulation case, or very early in campaign), or enemy venting/overloading (that's what for we have Harpoons). Every other time, there is little use of massive alpha, because you can take the damage on shields and run&vent (as long as you are as fast/faster than enemy). It's the prolonged fire that works best (on shields). If that wouldn't be the case, we would all use Antimatter Blasters instead of Pulse Lasers.
In order to take advantage of huge alpha strike, you need to either overload enemy ship or make him vent. Both are pretty much impossible in Doom, or not very effective (mega sabot salvo works for shields, but what after that, to take down armour?). You could make one of your allied ships fight with the enemy, while you wait phased in. But hey, good luck pulling that off with Doom, and making it worth the trouble.
Phase frigates, fine, I see their use. Doom? Not so much.
I haven't used phase ships since patch-day mega-testing, when I came to realise that I'm not spending FP effectively if using them. A Tempest will most of the time perform better than Shade or Afflictor, because it can outrun rockets, evade projectiles, and shield itself from other threats (such as beams, or fast fighters).
Uhh, sorry for messy post.
Actually, I have just found a way to fix Doom!Hmm.... Let me consult the board.
The problem with it is that it doesn't have enough weapon power to make use of phase/unphase hit'n'run tactics. It works on the Frigate scale, but only there.
So what's the solution? Give it better weapons! Now, you might say, "I'm just gonna mount 3 Plasma Cannons on it, and roll around being OP.". Well, instead giving it weapon slots, let's use the newly introduced built-in weapons!
Weapons that have rather low flux cost, giant alpha damage (bigger than AM blasters), but incredibly slow fire rate, plus not so good accuracy. All this while sustaining current Doom weaponry. That's a ship I would like to use, because it can be an Onslaught killer, a killer that doesn't have to care about giant wall of projectiles the Onslaught can shoot.
Criticism appreciated.
Are they the ship version of missile systems - massive burst and no sustainability? Have them kill two other ships very suddenly, then flee the field? Seems like to do that, they just need to do their current thing, but moreso.
20fp is not that far off. Maybe some slight tweaking is in order, but it's not ridiculous.20FP is a lot to ask for in any ship. That's a 1/5 of your max fleet size and roughly a 1/3 of your initial deployment in an engagement. If something is going to cost that much, it would have to be the linchpin of the fleet. The Doom isn't that kind of ship.
You are not supposed to be able to be phased forever. It requires judicious use of your resources.
Alpha strike is easy with amblasters or kinetic damage. The thing is covered in universals. It requires a lot of tweaking to find a good build, but it's not impossible.
Phase ships are fast and have lots of flux. And they can go invulnerable for short periods of time. 20fp is not that far off. Maybe some slight tweaking is in order, but it's not ridiculous.
I'm not sure what phase ships are supposed to do in a fleet.
...
Once I know what they're supposed to be doing, I'll know what's holding them back.
I wonder if Alex would prefer to power up the Doom until it is worth 20 FP, or to lower its FP?
Right now my feeling is it's only a tad overpriced - but it's hard to say just how much versatility is worth. Aside from changing individual ships, there's also the possibility of giving phase ships some special campaign-level mechanics.
Having a phase cloak doesn't determine a ship's role any more than having shields does. The weapons and the system are the determining factors there, and since phase ships tend to have more than their share of universals, there are plenty of roles they can fill. Of course, the phase cloak does play into how they go about filling them..True.
Right now my feeling is it's only a tad overpriced - but it's hard to say just how much versatility is worth.
Right now my feeling is it's only a tad overpriced - but it's hard to say just how much versatility is worth. Aside from changing individual ships, there's also the possibility of giving phase ships some special campaign-level mechanics.
Thant would be neat, would it be something like being able to chose were on not to engage an enemy fleet if all of you ships are phase or something more subtle...
Right now my feeling is it's only a tad overpriced - but it's hard to say just how much versatility is worth. Aside from changing individual ships, there's also the possibility of giving phase ships some special campaign-level mechanics.
Okay. So how is a phase ship supposed to go about its role differently?
Okay. So how is a phase ship supposed to go about its role differently?
in other words, give phase ships a ton of armor. That way, it can choose to fire instead of phase without being so harshly punished for doing so.
My problem with phase ships boils down to this: other ships can shoot while under fire due to the way soft flux works. Phase ships often have to choose between shooting or living for a few more seconds, since shooting essentially generates hard flux for them. The only way to avoid this dilemma is to use hit-and-run tactics or outrange the opponent. As close support, it's really hard for a frigate or the Doom to outrange many opponents, even with light needlers. As a strike craft, getting in close to the target, firing, and getting out without dying somewhere along the line is harder for a phase ship than most alternatives, particularly with an AM blaster equipped since it generates so much flux.
Aside from changing individual ships, there's also the possibility of giving phase ships some special campaign-level mechanics.
How about the ability to spawn at a different location then the lower border, maybe in the top right and left corners? Phase ship might be able to sneak behind the enemy fleet unnoticed (prior to the actual battle) and thus gain an advantage at capturing points or assaulting carriers. Would make most sense with defensive fleet behavior.
Okay. So how is a phase ship supposed to go about its role differently?
On individual ship level, phase cloaking is no different from invulnerable (better) version of fortress shield. Only thing they can't do is take shots for other ships.
One suboptimal way to fix that would make phasing act almost identically to Fortress Shields. By that, I mean have phasing generate hard flux, but be able to dissipate soft flux while phased. The other way would be to make phase ships able to take a few hits... in other words, give phase ships a ton of armor. That way, it can choose to fire instead of phase without being so harshly punished for doing so.
Do you want the ai doing it to you?
One suboptimal way to fix that would make phasing act almost identically to Fortress Shields. By that, I mean have phasing generate hard flux, but be able to dissipate soft flux while phased. The other way would be to make phase ships able to take a few hits... in other words, give phase ships a ton of armor. That way, it can choose to fire instead of phase without being so harshly punished for doing so.
Hmm. I actually like the hard flux idea. It does add some gameplay similarity to Fortress Shields, but the differences are still enough for my taste - instant activation and not actually destroying missiles on impact are both game-changers as far as any similarity is concerned. And, hiding out in phase while you flux comes down a bit just feels "right". This also gives hard flux a role for phase ships, which is a nice touch.
that actually works pretty well...
Made a quick mod in case anyone wants to try it
http://www.mediafire.com/?c7o0gkkeoqqdtiu
hoping this becomes official
that actually works pretty well...
Made a quick mod in case anyone wants to try it
http://www.mediafire.com/?c7o0gkkeoqqdtiu
hoping this becomes official
Yep, it does. Made the change earlier today :)
Yep, it does. Made the change earlier today :)
Added a tip for now, but yeah... definitely something that needs to be explained better.well once you get into the campaign there should be some kind of tutorial built into it....just few scripted things like taking dmg to shields showing the difference between dmg types etc.
Added a tip for now, but yeah... definitely something that needs to be explained better.well once you get into the campaign there should be some kind of tutorial built into it....just few scripted things like taking dmg to shields showing the difference between dmg types etc.
A separate, in topics divided tutorial like the one we have now seems better. You don't have to do/skip it every time you start a new campaign, but can revise it at any time.well you should be able to skip it of course ;)
On individual ship level, phase cloaking is no different from invulnerable (better) version of fortress shield. Only thing they can't do is take shots for other ships.
This is interesting, because they do look similar at first glance, but key differences get lost in reducing it to "absorbs damage at constant flux cost".
These differences are enough so that it plays very differently than a full fortress shield would. In the end, it’s still a defensive system – but imo, it’s about as different from shields as you can get.
Great! Maybe with this increasing importance of hard/softflux differentiation it would be good to have a better visible marker? I went weeks without even noticing the current one.
Something like this maybe? :Spoiler(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8604/53068272.png)
Or this?
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7613/92427796.png)[close]
^^ Good idea, the mechanic for hard flux has been catching people out alot. I know seasoned pros who only just learn't about it. making it more obvious is a good way to draw attention to it. Also i suggest putting it into the tips on the main menu.Really?
Really what? ???^^ Good idea, the mechanic for hard flux has been catching people out alot. I know seasoned pros who only just learn't about it. making it more obvious is a good way to draw attention to it. Also i suggest putting it into the tips on the main menu.Really?
Really somebody could have this game for more than 10 minutes and not know what hard flux isReally what? ???^^ Good idea, the mechanic for hard flux has been catching people out alot. I know seasoned pros who only just learn't about it. making it more obvious is a good way to draw attention to it. Also i suggest putting it into the tips on the main menu.Really?
Really somebody could have this game for more than 10 minutes and not know what hard flux isi didnt know it for some time as well.....i just didnt notice
Em. What`s a hard flux, guys? :)
I don't think drained is appropriate term here :P Dissipate is much better.Em. What`s a hard flux, guys? :)
Flux that cannot be drained with shields activated.
I don't think drained is appropriate term here :P Dissipate is much better.Em. What`s a hard flux, guys? :)
Flux that cannot be drained with shields activated.
It's generated by projectiles hitting your shield, that is any weapon or missile, or ship, or space debris. The exception being beam weapons, these generate soft flux on your shield.
Firing your weapons generates soft flux.
The phase change is not just a buff to survivability, but a massive increase to their damage output as well. Now that survivability and damage are not on the same "bar", they can put out a ton more damage too. Have you tried swapping out some of the missiles on the Doom for Antimatter Blasters?
But besides all that, they don't play at all like other Hi-Tech ships (I'd really recommend to try not looking at them as that kind of ship). They don't have the same speed, mobility, or sustained damage that other high tech ships have, and fit into their own category.