Fractal Softworks Forum
Starsector => General Discussion => Topic started by: BillyRueben on August 20, 2012, 09:24:21 AM
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As the title says, does anyone actually use the Mjolnir Cannon? It just isn't a viable weapon. The flux build up is too fast, the damage is too low, and there are many other weapons that work better in the large slot.
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ya, no....
thinking of buffing them in my personal mod...
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It has flux efficiency more typical for energy slot weapon, but doesn't get same flux boost. Absolutely no match for any alternatives usable in heavy ballistic slot...
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yeah
i'm not seeing this "fast" flux buildup at all, atleast not on my max vented conquest.
edit: my loadout:
2x mjolnir 2x Hvel driver on one side
2x Hephaestus 2x chain gun on the other
the assault gun side is actually creating flux faster than the other side.
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It has flux efficiency more typical for energy slot weapon, but doesn't get same flux boost. Absolutely no match for any alternatives usable in heavy ballistic slot...
My personal solution is to change it to a large energy weapon. Can still load it using variants, and (I think) ships that have it pre-loaded get the flux bonus after that.
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It costs something like 600 flux per shot, horribly inefficent.
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It has flux efficiency more typical for energy slot weapon, but doesn't get same flux boost. Absolutely no match for any alternatives usable in heavy ballistic slot...
My personal solution is to change it to a large energy weapon. Can still load it using variants, and (I think) ships that have it pre-loaded get the flux bonus after that.
It also gets the bonus of the Odyssey's ship system, so its not bad right there =P
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Yup, I don't use it ever.
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And that's not even mentioning the OP cost. Gauss Cannons and Hellbores are a far better investment in my book, depending on the purpose.
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Maybe make mjolnirs have splash? that would be sorta neat, that or general flux reduction, personally it's as damaging as the heavy blaster, but it uses as much flux as one and most ships that can carry ballistics aren't as flux minded as high tech ships, it just makes the requirements more glaring.
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it has really good emp, but that doesnt make up for its flaws
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EMP is good, but large damage weapons disable enemy guns and engines very fast as is (I really like the EMP on the hyper velocity driver though). Does anyone know if the EMP 'spreads out' and disables a large radius or anything?
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Last update I used two Mjolnirs once on a Dominator because I found one on a pirate supply fleet and I wanted symmetry and didn't have enough money to buy two of anything else.
Other than that, I've never used them.
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edit: my loadout:
2x mjolnir 2x Hvel driver on one side
2x Hephaestus 2x chain gun on the other
the assault gun side is actually creating flux faster than the other side.
I guess I just don't see what the Mjolnir Cannons are bringing to the table in that build. I would think four HVD would bring down shields faster, have more range, and be more flux efficient.
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Maybe make mjolnirs have splash? that would be sorta neat, that or general flux reduction, personally it's as damaging as the heavy blaster, but it uses as much flux as one and most ships that can carry ballistics aren't as flux minded as high tech ships, it just makes the requirements more glaring.
i think the bolded part is part of the problem:
the mjolnir really isn't meant to be mounted on most ships. if anything, it was probably built with it being mounted solely on the conquest since it's the only midline with large ballistics and energy weapons was starting to make headway in that era ( you could probably say the mjolnir was the precursor to the heavy blaster ).
I guess I just don't see what the Mjolnir Cannons are bringing to the table in that build. I would think four HVD would bring down shields faster, have more range, and be more flux efficient.
- glorious EMP damage so that i don't take much return fire.
- shields don't last that long against the 4 weapons, plus once the shields go down, how are you going to damage the hull with 4 kinetics?
- flux efficiency is irrelevant since 1700 dissipation pretty much makes the buildup extremely slow / non existent.
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I've actually been running around with Mjolnirs on the basic Elite Onslaught and (Elite?) Conquest. They deal quite nasty damage, but should get a buff. They would be a great weapon
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I guess I just don't see what the Mjolnir Cannons are bringing to the table in that build. I would think four HVD would bring down shields faster, have more range, and be more flux efficient.
- glorious EMP damage so that i don't take much return fire.
- shields don't last that long against the 4 weapons, plus once the shields go down, how are you going to damage the hull with 4 kinetics?
- flux efficiency is irrelevant since 1700 dissipation pretty much makes the buildup extremely slow / non existent.
HVDs also have plenty of EMP IIRC. I assumed that the Mjolnir/HVD side was to take down the shields, the other side of your ship was to take out the hull.
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Personally, whenever I use ballistics, if it isn't Needlers, Hellbores, or Heavy Maulers, I'm probably not interested. For me, efficiency is king, and Mjolnirs are lacking in that department. They seem like a fun and interesting weapon, but their current implementation means I have no desire to use them.
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Maybe make mjolnirs have splash? that would be sorta neat, that or general flux reduction, personally it's as damaging as the heavy blaster, but it uses as much flux as one and most ships that can carry ballistics aren't as flux minded as high tech ships, it just makes the requirements more glaring.
i think the bolded part is part of the problem:
the mjolnir really isn't meant to be mounted on most ships. if anything, it was probably built with it being mounted solely on the conquest since it's the only midline with large ballistics and energy weapons was starting to make headway in that era ( you could probably say the mjolnir was the precursor to the heavy blaster ).
I guess I just don't see what the Mjolnir Cannons are bringing to the table in that build. I would think four HVD would bring down shields faster, have more range, and be more flux efficient.
- glorious EMP damage so that i don't take much return fire.
- shields don't last that long against the 4 weapons, plus once the shields go down, how are you going to damage the hull with 4 kinetics?
- flux efficiency is irrelevant since 1700 dissipation pretty much makes the buildup extremely slow / non existent.
The guns aren't effective at taking down shields because your ship overloads too quickly. Seriously any conquest that I've taken off the Mjolnir's and replaced with another weapon wins over it pretty much all the time. The cannons just aren't very good. They require more stats than a heavy blaster and aren't even as effective as they are because the ships that can mount them can't support their requirements.
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Maybe make mjolnirs have splash? that would be sorta neat, that or general flux reduction, personally it's as damaging as the heavy blaster, but it uses as much flux as one and most ships that can carry ballistics aren't as flux minded as high tech ships, it just makes the requirements more glaring.
I'd love to see the projectiles pass right through ships, damaging them as they pass through, also perhaps skip armour entirely.
These are micro-singularities we're talking about, they need some kind of unique damage mechanic.
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I guess I just don't see what the Mjolnir Cannons are bringing to the table in that build. I would think four HVD would bring down shields faster, have more range, and be more flux efficient.
- glorious EMP damage so that i don't take much return fire.
- shields don't last that long against the 4 weapons, plus once the shields go down, how are you going to damage the hull with 4 kinetics?
- flux efficiency is irrelevant since 1700 dissipation pretty much makes the buildup extremely slow / non existent.
HVDs also have plenty of EMP IIRC. I assumed that the Mjolnir/HVD side was to take down the shields, the other side of your ship was to take out the hull.
the mjolnir's fire rate is almost 3 times as fast, so i get a constant stream of EMP rather than an occasional burst, so it helps keeping their weapons suppressed. since the mjolnirs do energy damage(and the HvelD has a rather high per shot damage), there's no need to actually turn my vessel, plus i use MIRVs rather than reapers so they just guide themselves to their target. :P
The guns aren't effective at taking down shields because your ship overloads too quickly.
i don't know what you mean by overload too quickly, are you using the shield? cause i mean, -any- weapon will make the thing overload if you use the shield.
They require more stats than a heavy blaster and aren't even as effective as they are because the ships that can mount them can't support their requirements.
like i said in the quote :
the mjolnir really isn't meant to be mounted on most ships. if anything, it was probably built with it being mounted solely on the conquest since it's the only midline with large ballistics and energy weapons was starting to make headway in that era ( you could probably say the mjolnir was the precursor to the heavy blaster ).
Personally, whenever I use ballistics, if it isn't Needlers, Hellbores, or Heavy Maulers, I'm probably not interested. For me, efficiency is king, and Mjolnirs are lacking in that department. They seem like a fun and interesting weapon, but their current implementation means I have no desire to use them.
why pick on just the mjonlirs? is it because that's what we are discussing here?
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I've actually been running around with Mjolnirs on the basic Elite Onslaught and (Elite?) Conquest. They deal quite nasty damage, but should get a buff. They would be a great weapon
I also use the Mjolnirs on my Conquest, mostly because I can disable an enemy ships systems while doing a load of damage. I would be psyched if they got a buff, but still see them as a secondary weapon to the Heavy Maulers I also put on the Conquest, because they outreange the Mjolnirs and do more damage to unshielded targets.
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why pick on just the mjonlirs? is it because that's what we are discussing here?
"Pick on"? Yes, I'm being critical of just Mjolnir Cannons since that's the topic, but even still, the other ballistic weapons all have their uses. The Mjolnir Cannon is unique in how inferior it is to all of the alternatives, and how it doesn't seem like it's supposed to be as inferior as it is. You may like it, but that doesn't mean it's a good weapon.
If you can mount a Mjolnir cannon, you would be better off mounting just about any other weapon instead.
EDIT: Let me put things this way- if you can mount 2x Mjolnirs, you could mount a Storm Needler and a Hephaestus Assault Gun and it would do more dps to armor and shields than the Mjolnirs, but for ~2/3rd the flux cost. Even replacing the Storm Needler with a Mark IX Autocannon, it would still be better in just about every way.
EDIT2: I think it would need about a 100 dps increase, a 300 range increase, or 100 flux/sec reduction for me to even consider it.
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the mjolnir's fire rate is almost 3 times as fast, so i get a constant stream of EMP rather than an occasional burst, so it helps keeping their weapons suppressed. since the mjolnirs do energy damage(and the HvelD has a rather high per shot damage), there's no need to actually turn my vessel, plus i use MIRVs rather than reapers so they just guide themselves to their target. :P
The guns aren't effective at taking down shields because your ship overloads too quickly.
i don't know what you mean by overload too quickly, are you using the shield? cause i mean, -any- weapon will make the thing overload if you use the shield.
They require more stats than a heavy blaster and aren't even as effective as they are because the ships that can mount them can't support their requirements.
like i said in the quote :
the mjolnir really isn't meant to be mounted on most ships. if anything, it was probably built with it being mounted solely on the conquest since it's the only midline with large ballistics and energy weapons was starting to make headway in that era ( you could probably say the mjolnir was the precursor to the heavy blaster ).
Personally, whenever I use ballistics, if it isn't Needlers, Hellbores, or Heavy Maulers, I'm probably not interested. For me, efficiency is king, and Mjolnirs are lacking in that department. They seem like a fun and interesting weapon, but their current implementation means I have no desire to use them.
why pick on just the mjonlirs? is it because that's what we are discussing here?
Heavy blaster is 60 RPM while Mjonlir is 80, not that much. They also have the exact same damage except the Mjonlir has EMP. But even with that in mind it's not as accurate, requires ammo, and is only capable of being mounted on ships with poor flux dissipation. The Mjonlir costs 600 flux per shot so it's a bit more flux efficient than the heavy blaster's 720 per shot. BUT this gun costs twice as much as the heavy blaster in terms of OP and can fit into medium and large slots, meaning the heavy blaster is pretty much superior in any situation. What I think is that it needs a cost reduction since ships with it tend to be unable to vent even one firing much less two or three.
Basically the problem with the Mjonlir is a 'Mario' gun with no special niche in terms of kinetic or explosive damage, but with the flux cost of a burst damage weapon.
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I use it on mod ships, since they are often better than vanilla. I normally do however, reduce the flux to about 600/s, and reduce the range some.
So yes, they need a buff
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Let me put things this way- if you can mount 2x Mjolnirs, you could mount a Storm Needler and a Hephaestus Assault Gun and it would do more dps to armor and shields than the Mjolnirs, but for ~2/3rd the flux cost. Even replacing the Storm Needler with a Mark IX Autocannon, it would still be better in just about every way.
@ flux cost
unless you're using it on one of the low tech vessels(which you really shouldn't), it's fairly moot since you can augment the conquest to dissipate far faster than it can generate, even with the mediums firing i have very little buildup in my setup, so i don't see why cost should be a consideration factor when it can be made moot.
moot.
@ the DPS
2x mjolnirs = 1066
1x Storm Needler = 1498 (shields)
1x Hephaestus = 960 (armor)
combined(armor) = 1049
1x mark 9 = 696 (shields)
1x assault gun = 960 (armor)
combined(armor) = 1001
1x hellbore = 1000 (armor)
1x gauss cannon = 700 (shields)
combined(armor) = 1042
so yeah, the only weapon that really beats it is the storm needler. :P but they are so close together that unless you -really- need that extra few damage, you can pretty much go with any combination you'd like.
now, as for my take:
every other weapon (minus the assault gun) offers expediency, which is extremely valuable in large ship combat since it vastly lowers the damage your fleet takes thus letting you be more aggressive in the field. i think this is why the mjolnir feels bad, as it's basically a "chip away at the enemy" weapon on either a relatively fragile platform (the conquest) or being used on vessels that really can't use the thing (all the low tech ships).
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Sure, the damage is fine - but the flux/cost is ridiculous.
Every 10 flux/second generated costs you atleast 1 OP to negate it. (more if you generate so much flux you have to rely upon Flux Distributor)
So cost wise in Effective Ordnance Points (EOP = OP cost + fluxPerSecond/10):
mjolnirs = 24+80 = 104 EOP
Storm Needler = 28+50 = 78 EOP
Mark IX = 18+40 = 58 EOP
Heph = 20+48 = 68 EOP
Hellbore = 16+55 = 71 EOP
Gauss = 25+40 = 65 EOP
Applied to your suggested combinations:
Mjolnir + Mjolnir = 1066 shield + 1066 armor + 1066 hull + 208 EOP
Storm Needler+Hephaestus = 1738 shield + 1335 armor + 1230 hull + 146 EOP
Mark IX+Hephaestus = 936 shield + 1134 armor + 828 hull + 116 EOP
Hellbore + Gauss = 950 shield + 1175 armor + 850 hull + 136 EOP
For an even starker representation, here's dmg/EOP:
Mjolnir + Mjolnir = 5.125 S + 5.125 A + 5.125 H
Storm Needler+Hephaestus = 11.904 S + 9.144 A + 8.425 H
Mark IX+Hephaestus = 8.069 S + 9.776 A + 7.138 H
Hellbore + Gauss = 6.985 S + 8.640 A + 6.25 H
In my mind it's indisputable how numerically inferior Mjolnirs are.
Admittedly this analysis is somewhat flawed, as it ignores many important factors:
- Range
- Accuracy
- armour damage reduction Vs weak projectiles.
- EMP dmg
- Kinetic+HE combo can be selectively fired to dramatically increase efficiency.
- Combat tactics (hit&run tactics for instance can reduce the accuracy of the EOP simplification)
However, in regards to the first 3 unaccounted for factors the Mjolnirs are unspectacular; having only average range, above average accuracy, and above average projectile damage.
Their only saving grace is the EMP damage, but I honestly don't see how that can compensate for them being statistically 50-100% less efficient than the alternative weapons.
Especially when you're also sacrificing the ability to selectively fire your weapon types for greater efficiency.
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i don't see why cost should be a consideration factor when it can be made moot.
That's why you can't grasp why Mjolnirs are bad. In vanilla Starfarer, there's almost much no such thing as making flux costs moot. Flux efficiency is one of the most important stats for a capital ship. It gives you more flux to fire your guns and keep your shields up for longer. Having efficient weapons is both an offensive and defensive choice.
The only way for flux cost to be moot is if your dissipation is greater that your upkeep. 2 Mjolnirs on their own use up almost all of a Conquest's theoretical max dissipation, and uses that flux less efficiently than any other large ballistic weapon. (And so you know, every point of flux dissipation is more valuable than the last, since it dissipates a greater percentage of the remaining flux buildup than the last)
Even if you go for some combination other than Storm Needler and Hephaestus, it would give you more OP to spend on hull mods or additional capacitors. No matter how you look at it, Mjolnirs are bad.
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i don't see why cost should be a consideration factor when it can be made moot.
That's why you can't grasp why Mjolnirs are bad. In vanilla Starfarer, there's almost much no such thing as making flux costs moot. Flux efficiency is one of the most important stats for a capital ship. It gives you more flux to fire your guns and keep your shields up for longer. Having efficient weapons is both an offensive and defensive choice.
The only way for flux cost to be moot is if your dissipation is greater that your upkeep. 2 Mjolnirs on their own use up almost all of a Conquest's theoretical max dissipation, and uses that flux less efficiently than any other large ballistic weapon. (And so you know, every point of flux dissipation is more valuable than the last, since it dissipates a greater percentage of the remaining flux buildup than the last)
Even if you go for some combination other than Storm Needler and Hephaestus, it would give you more OP to spend on hull mods or additional capacitors. No matter how you look at it, Mjolnirs are bad.
i'd like to think i can't grasp why they are bad because i don't quite believe in this nonsense that you just presented to me.
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I'd like to think that a weapon should have more than one viable ship to be mounted on. You can say that it isn't bad, and you may be right, but I still find it to be inferior to ALL of my other options in the Large Ballistic category. It needs something.
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I'd like to think that a weapon should have more than one viable ship to be mounted on. You can say that it isn't bad, and you may be right, but I still find it to be inferior to ALL of my other options in the Large Ballistic category. It needs something.
see.
everyone says " it's inferior".
no ones explaining why (and not for my sake either, alex would probably appreciate the feedback to)
yeah, more ships being able to use it would be nice.
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I thought TJJ's post was pretty good.
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i don't see why cost should be a consideration factor when it can be made moot.
That's why you can't grasp why Mjolnirs are bad. In vanilla Starfarer, there's almost much no such thing as making flux costs moot. Flux efficiency is one of the most important stats for a capital ship. It gives you more flux to fire your guns and keep your shields up for longer. Having efficient weapons is both an offensive and defensive choice.
The only way for flux cost to be moot is if your dissipation is greater that your upkeep. 2 Mjolnirs on their own use up almost all of a Conquest's theoretical max dissipation, and uses that flux less efficiently than any other large ballistic weapon. (And so you know, every point of flux dissipation is more valuable than the last, since it dissipates a greater percentage of the remaining flux buildup than the last)
Even if you go for some combination other than Storm Needler and Hephaestus, it would give you more OP to spend on hull mods or additional capacitors. No matter how you look at it, Mjolnirs are bad.
i'd like to think i can't grasp why they are bad because i don't quite believe in this nonsense that you just presented to me.
Personally, I think he's got very good points and is right on them. Please, enlighten me as to how his post is nonsense.
Also, somehow this type of discussion seems familiar... I'm just saying.
I thought TJJ's post was pretty good.
Yeah, he explained it pretty well.
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Don't you guys find that it's just sometimes hard to hit things with the mjolnir? moreso that it makes it feel flux heavy because we often can't hit what we wanted/momentum throws the aim off?
Wouldn't making it basically " waste less flux/ammo " by making more shots count?
It's why I feel like making it have a slight proximity fuse would be nice in improving the hit chances,
To me the damage feels fairly nice, but it's the flux that makes me cringe 800/flux a second is nothing to scoff at.
But if the flux was properly translated into damage, we'd complain less right? :P
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I was writing quite an analysis here, but then I saw TJJ's post. Well done TJJ ;)
How to buff Mjolnirs? Make them unique, in someway - let it be the EMP alone. How about buffing the EMP damage to go through entire ship instead of just damaging nearby systems (just like normal weapons do)?
Suddenly, Mjolnirs are devastating, because with each shot that hits the hull (the actual hull or armour), the entire ship is closer to simply stopping working - engines, systems, even shields/phase?
NEED MORE EMP.
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I was writing quite an analysis here, but then I saw TJJ's post. Well done TJJ ;)
How to buff Mjolnirs? Make them unique, in someway - let it be the EMP alone. How about buffing the EMP damage to go through entire ship instead of just damaging nearby systems (just like normal weapons do)?
Suddenly, Mjolnirs are devastating, because with each shot that hits the hull (the actual hull or armour), the entire ship is closer to simply stopping working - engines, systems, even shields/phase?
NEED MORE EMP.
But then it can't penetrate shields and is therefore worthless.
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I used to think the Mjolnir was bad, but after forcing myself to use it extensively in order to get a feel for it, I have come to the conclusion that I was mistaken. It's actually very good, but only on the Conquest, because the Conquest has the dissipation and flux pool to support it. Also, you should only ever be firing from one side of the ship with your Mjolnir's because, while firing two of them at a time is sustainable for quite some time, firing four at once isn't. That's fine though, because when you're flying a Conquest you shouldn't be getting surrounded anyway; you're far too fast and maneuverable.
Why is it so good (on the Conquest)? First, it's an energy weapon. It's good against everything, which means you can be very flexible with your medium ballistic mounts because you aren't being forced to put whatever type of damage you didn't put into your large slot (kinetic or HE). Second, it is the best long range ballistic assault weapon bar none. It's very accurate even while firing non stop. The HAG sprays wildly at long ranges, and the Hellbore projectile travels slow enough to be easily avoided at long range. The Gauss Cannon is more accurate, but suffers from extremely limited ammo, a long firing delay, and does significantly reduced damage against armor. The Storm Needler comes close, but again, your not even going to scratch heavier armors with it. Mjolnir's are accurate at long ranges, even during sustained fire. You get high DPS, 100% damage vs all defenses, and a significant emp payload on top of that.
I use them with only 10 additional flux vents on my Conquest and I don't run into trouble with flux. I keep them off auto fire, and stay at max range (with an ITU) because I can due to maneuvering jets. Even with only 1300 (and you get get up to ~1700) dissipation you can fire 2 Mjolnirs, a pile of burst PD lasers, and your medium ballistic slots for at least 20 seconds before you need to think about letting off or venting. 20 seconds is plenty. When that time comes, you just back off with you maneuvering jets and cool down or your target is already dead. Fire some torpedoes at them while you cool off. I prefer Mjolnirs on my Conquest over just about anything else. They're useless on an Onslaught or Dominator though. Not enough dissipation or maneuverability to use them.
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The thing is, you can get better DPS by running Hellbore Storm Needler combination. And if you wanted EMP damage, you could just swap one of the small mounts with an Ion Cannon, and you'll be doing more EMP damage than three Mjolnirs. Even then with the added Ion Cannon, the dissipation of flux is still less than two Mjolnirs. OP wise, a Storm Needler and Hellbore combination is less than two Mjolnirs.
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i don't see why cost should be a consideration factor when it can be made moot.
That's why you can't grasp why Mjolnirs are bad. In vanilla Starfarer, there's almost much no such thing as making flux costs moot. Flux efficiency is one of the most important stats for a capital ship. It gives you more flux to fire your guns and keep your shields up for longer. Having efficient weapons is both an offensive and defensive choice.
The only way for flux cost to be moot is if your dissipation is greater that your upkeep. 2 Mjolnirs on their own use up almost all of a Conquest's theoretical max dissipation, and uses that flux less efficiently than any other large ballistic weapon. (And so you know, every point of flux dissipation is more valuable than the last, since it dissipates a greater percentage of the remaining flux buildup than the last)
Even if you go for some combination other than Storm Needler and Hephaestus, it would give you more OP to spend on hull mods or additional capacitors. No matter how you look at it, Mjolnirs are bad.
i'd like to think i can't grasp why they are bad because i don't quite believe in this nonsense that you just presented to me.
I give up arguing with you, forever, on any topic past, present, or future. My words are wasted on you.
Have a nice life.
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I can't stand Mjolnirs.
There are better weapons out there.
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Why is it so good (on the Conquest)? First, it's an energy weapon. It's good against everything, which means you can be very flexible with your medium ballistic mounts because you aren't being forced to put whatever type of damage you didn't put into your large slot (kinetic or HE). Second, it is the best long range ballistic assault weapon bar none. It's very accurate even while firing non stop. The HAG sprays wildly at long ranges, and the Hellbore projectile travels slow enough to be easily avoided at long range. The Gauss Cannon is more accurate, but suffers from extremely limited ammo, a long firing delay, and does significantly reduced damage against armor. The Storm Needler comes close, but again, your not even going to scratch heavier armors with it. Mjolnir's are accurate at long ranges, even during sustained fire. You get high DPS, 100% damage vs all defenses, and a significant emp payload on top of that.
I use them with only 10 additional flux vents on my Conquest and I don't run into trouble with flux. I keep them off auto fire, and stay at max range (with an ITU) because I can due to maneuvering jets. Even with only 1300 (and you get get up to ~1700) dissipation you can fire 2 Mjolnirs, a pile of burst PD lasers, and your medium ballistic slots for at least 20 seconds before you need to think about letting off or venting.
with my experience in "the last hurrah" mission 20 seconds was quite a different thing from how long i was able to last, or at least i think.
its 800f/533dps, which brings us down to around 1.5 flux for every point of dmg, which makes it THE most ineffecient weapon of the large ballistic category. second in line is the mark9 at 1.14, which is quite a distance from 1.5
the only reason i would mount a weapon with such low efficiency would either be because of enough alpha to justify, or the weapon is specialized in a specific role, i.e. bonus against shields, against which its efficiency would of have increased.
i personally am completely blind to how "equally effective against everything" is a legit justification for horrible flux efficiency. to me it would make up for a low dps with good efficiency, among other things.
i've found the mjolnir cannon to be ineffective against shields since i always endup going through my own capacitors long before i override their shield. and even holding the fire till the enemy's shield's down, then pouring everything i've got at him, the mjolnir again, maxes out my flux before the enemy is dead. decent damage, no doubt. but i would of prefered sustained firepower from something like the HAG. i doubt im the best at managing flux and shields, but i think every other large ballistic weapon has done better for me.
i think its abit of a shame that the mjolnir doessent live up to its epic lore of micro-singularity shells, since i was so pumped up upon it. i guess it will be buffed later.
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I was writing quite an analysis here, but then I saw TJJ's post. Well done TJJ ;)
How to buff Mjolnirs? Make them unique, in someway - let it be the EMP alone. How about buffing the EMP damage to go through entire ship instead of just damaging nearby systems (just like normal weapons do)?
Suddenly, Mjolnirs are devastating, because with each shot that hits the hull (the actual hull or armour), the entire ship is closer to simply stopping working - engines, systems, even shields/phase?
NEED MORE EMP.
But then it can't penetrate shields and is therefore worthless.
fairly certain that he's not saying let the thing do ALL emp damage, but rather let the current emp damage already attached to it spread through the ship rather than being localized around the point of impact.
which would be, incrdibly OP as you would basically be able to "stunlock" a ship to death.
IMO: i think this would be the perfect weapon to add a DoT ( Death over Time ) to, you can say it's something along the lines of the black hole ripping away at the armor/hull before it dissipates.
with my experience in "the last hurrah" mission 20 seconds was quite a different thing from how long i was able to last, or at least i think.
the stock one is terrible, plus any of use of the shield beyond blocking the occasional pilum missile / Reaper torpedo / piranha bomb run pretty much means you're in a situation where you're not going to win.
low dps
it has the second highest DPS overall, and depending on what it is hitting, it has higher DPS than some weapons. so yeah, not quite sure what you're saying here.
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IMO: i think this would be the perfect weapon to add a DoT ( Death over Time ) to, you can say it's something along the lines of the black hole ripping away at the armor/hull before it dissipates.
great idea
with my experience in "the last hurrah" mission 20 seconds was quite a different thing from how long i was able to last, or at least i think.
the stock one is terrible, plus any of use of the shield beyond blocking the occasional pilum missile / Reaper torpedo / piranha bomb run pretty much means you're in a situation where you're not going to win.
i had never considered mounting a mjolnir on a custom variant. its like i dont even see it as a valid weapon lol
low dps
it has the second highest DPS overall, and depending on what it is hitting, it has higher DPS than some weapons. so yeah, not quite sure what you're saying here.
[/quote]
did i say that? if i did i would of meant low dps/flux ratio. i dont doubt its dps but no ship is able to sustain fire it.
there is but one valid and VERY limited use i can perceive for the use of the mjonir, which is to periodically deal EMP dmg. and sacrificing an entire large ballistic weapon slot for it just isnt something i would do when there are plenty other weapons that could kill a ship outright in its place.
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but no ship is able to sustain fire it.
max dissipation on the conquest is 1700
2x mjolnirs flux/s is 1600
:P
though devoting an entire ship to -just- fire 2 cannons and 4 missiles (since they don't generate flux) is abit wasteful, i'm just kinda saying that there is.
my (full) setup is:
left side :
2x mjolnir
2x high velocity drivers
right side:
2x large assault gun
2x assault chainguns
not to be used to whittle down the armor, but rather to just shoot at anything trying to be clever and sneak up on you.
large missile:
MIRV ( since i suck with reapers :P )
once their shields go down, quickly toss out a salvo of these.
medium missile:
Pilum LRM
medium energy:
graviton beams
small energy:
tactical lasers
small energy covering the engines:
PD laser
50 vents
1 capacitor
even with the beams and high velocity drivers firing, the flux build up is -extremely- slow.
something i would do when there are plenty other weapons that could kill a ship outright in its place.
i showed this wasn't quite true back on page two:
basically, the only weapon combo that has a higher DPS than 2 mjolnir's is the storm needler and hellbore combo(which i actually neglected to do, since i thought i already did so), but then their DPS is only higher by 23 points (against armor, anyway, but then against shields the storm needler does a whopping ~350 more dps, but this is why i have the high velocity drivers in the mediums, to drop shields.), and that the rest of the combos are very close together so that, in the end, if you -really- don't care about maximum output, you can go with anything and be ok.
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I prefer dual storm needler, dual heavy mauler on the killing side. I don't feel any ship has enough armor to warrant the large slot anti-armor guns anymore - especially if you throw in a little missile support. Having 5 times the anti shield capabilities of HVD's is nice, though HVD's are very accurate and have EMP.
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Oh well. I guess the whole thing comes down to play style, but the Mjolnir could get a little love.
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something i would do when there are plenty other weapons that could kill a ship outright in its place.
i showed this wasn't quite true back on page two:
basically, the only weapon combo that has a higher DPS than 2 mjolnir's is the storm needler and hellbore combo(which i actually neglected to do, since i thought i already did so), but then their DPS is only higher by 23 points (against armor, anyway, but then against shields the storm needler does a whopping ~350 more dps, but this is why i have the high velocity drivers in the mediums, to drop shields.), and that the rest of the combos are very close together so that, in the end, if you -really- don't care about maximum output, you can go with anything and be ok.
i'll admit i never played with the mjolnirs much. but i felt the ship was just much better after i replaced them with HAG and heavy needler for the medium. with just the hypervelocity firing, it takes abit to take down shields and once you do you cant fire your mjolnir for crap (maby a dozen shots before you max out on flux and your weapons starts choking)
i think one of the biggest culprit for my despise for the mjolnir is actually the ingame graphic effects, which is totally underwhelming for a large ballistic weapon that supposedly fires black holes at your enemies. i suppose it may have gotten updated since i last played a mjolnir tho.
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i showed this wasn't quite true back on page two:
basically, the only weapon combo that has a higher DPS than 2 mjolnir's is the storm needler and hellbore combo(which i actually neglected to do, since i thought i already did so), but then their DPS is only higher by 23 points (against armor, anyway, but then against shields the storm needler does a whopping ~350 more dps, but this is why i have the high velocity drivers in the mediums, to drop shields.), and that the rest of the combos are very close together so that, in the end, if you -really- don't care about maximum output, you can go with anything and be ok.
Could you explain how you arrived at those "combined (armor)" values your posted back on Page 2?
For my calculations I computed armor dmg as 2*HE + kinetic/2.
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What's a Mjolnir? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF_DJzgNnF0) And no, i don't use it, i stick to energy or kinetic weapons because if the shields go down then it's already dead.
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Don't turn this into another piranhas vs talons :-\ (This one -> http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2097.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2097.0))
What would balance the Mjolnir with other ballistic weapons of its category? Maybe make the Mjolnir benefit from higher flux?
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for the whole piranha vs talon discussion, ill refer to you to thaago's post:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2097.msg26213#msg26213
read the crossed out words and the edit.
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Seriously? Lets everyone drop it and get back on topic.
...
What would balance the Mjolnir with other ballistic weapons of its category? Maybe make the Mjolnir benefit from higher flux?
What if we replace the ammo with a regenerating charge system - say max 3 charges? That way it could deliver a very strong initial punch and then settle into its regular rate. It would also give it a distinct flavor and advantage over other ballistic weapons - infinite ammo. The charge system would also work really well on the hit and run style Conquest. A reduction in flux cost would also help - nothing drastic though.
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A reduction in flux cost would also help - nothing drastic though.
Enough that it could be effectively mounted on ships other than the Conquest would be nice.
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I'd say that a small buff in flux/DPS would be nice, as it currently has Energy damage, but uses ammo, and it's flux/DPS is terrible. perhaps a small buff in it's ammo storage capacity too, but then that'd need a small nerf in OP too, perhaps 5 points?
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-snip-
We are dropping this. Nothing good is going to come from bringing it back up. Ignore it.
I thought the idea of a special effect from the weapon would be cool. Maybe a % of armor penetration, or (if it could be done) a lasting status effect along the lines of "ships hit with this weapon lose ____ flux dissipation for 5 seconds".
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One last post, not to add to the fuel of the fire, but just to end this discussion and prove us right.
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=3895318
Discussion about catra should hopefully end here.
Anyways, back on topic about the mjolnir cannon, i don't really like that idea of "Ship hit with this weapon loos a % of their flux dissipation", since, if timed correctly and all that, could be horrendously OP.
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Yeah, there's already other weapons that fill the "Shield Puncher" and "Armor Puncher" role. I think EMP is out of the question to, considering that the small mount Ion Cannon does much more EMP dps than the Mjolnir.
I remember someone saying it could be a DOTS (Damage Over Time) weapon, which might fit with the lore a bit too since it talks about singularities and other fancy stuff.
EDIT: We get it, the general opinion is that Catra is a forum troll. Don't have to exert this opinion EVERY OTHER POST :(
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A reduction in flux cost would also help - nothing drastic though.
Enough that it could be effectively mounted on ships other than the Conquest would be nice.
i think the issue with flux dropping is that it would be amazingly OP on the conquest.
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The flux drop doesn't have to be that much. Maybe by 80-160 flux per second.
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What would balance the Mjolnir with other ballistic weapons of its category? Maybe make the Mjolnir benefit from higher flux?
I'd say that a small buff in flux/DPS would be nice, as it currently has Energy damage, but uses ammo, and it's flux/DPS is terrible. perhaps a small buff in it's ammo storage capacity too, but then that'd need a small nerf in OP too, perhaps 5 points?
i think for an energy weapon, which is equally effective against everything, and therefore a jack-of-all trades, master of none, should have flux efficiency better than most weapons of its type. tho i dont think this would be a good idea for the mjolnir without changing its damage output, as i think it would suddenly turn it into the ultimate weapon of choice.
my opinion is that the mjolnir rof should be nerfed to hell, with a significant increase in alpha damage and EMP. flux efficiency can remain as it is or even be nerfed, making it a large weapon emplacement AM blaster.
i think this fits in better with the concept of "firing black holes" (i cant imagine throwing them at the rate of 80/m), with the increased dmg, and i cant imagine firing singularities to be "efficient" at the least either.
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Yeah, there's already other weapons that fill the "Shield Puncher" and "Armor Puncher" role. I think EMP is out of the question to, considering that the small mount Ion Cannon does much more EMP dps than the Mjolnir.
I remember someone saying it could be a DOTS (Damage Over Time) weapon, which might fit with the lore a bit too since it talks about singularities and other fancy stuff.
EDIT: We get it, the general opinion is that Catra is a forum troll. Don't have to exert this opinion EVERY OTHER POST :(
ya know what
il lask again
and again
until i get an aanswer:
HOW
AM
I TROLLING?
im giving an opinion, and then when someone disagrees with me, IM the troll?
the hell is that crap?
thank you, moderators for doing your jobs, lazy slouches. good to know that you let this sort of behaviour strive.
edit: go ahead mods, prove me right. come and *** at me for getting mad at what others are saying.
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Oh dear god. Oh dear god, this is not going to go well.
HOW can mjolnir cannons do DOT? :o
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Oh dear god. Oh dear god, this is not going to go well.
HOW can mjolnir cannons do DOT? :o
the mjonlnir cannons essentially shoot mini black holes.
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It's an opinion, it doesn't need to be based on fact. People can think whatever they want to think. And Catra, you're no tyrannical thought police, you're a normal human being like the rest of us. You definitely have opinions about us that might be unwarranted or extreme, but oh well! Get over it and let's keep talking about Mjolnir balance.
I guess the Mjolnir kind of fits with the Heavy Blaster, and they're pretty in line with each other. Yet considering the variance in OP cost as well... Mjolnir might need a damage and flux boost to fit with the Heavy Blaster model.
Oh dear god. Oh dear god, this is not going to go well.
HOW can mjolnir cannons do DOT? :o
the mjonlnir cannons essentially shoot mini black holes.
And those black holes stay there for a little while at least.
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Well, yeah, that's true, but i don't really see any effect of those "Mini black holes" as of now. Perhaps we'll be needing some special stuff for it to work properly? :D
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Haha I remember all of those posts about damage over time in the suggestions, incendiary weapons and acid weapons and everything, how they wouldn't be viable. Now we're suggesting it again :P
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Haha I remember all of those posts about damage over time in the suggestions, incendiary weapons and acid weapons and everything, how they wouldn't be viable. Now we're suggesting it again :P
Well, we essentially have a weapon that screams DOT at us, but it doesn't do anything as advertised, perhaps make you die faster.
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Maybe it could make the ship more vulnerable to damage, like increase damage by a percentage. It's able to be done as seen through HEF.
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Well, yeah, that's true, but i don't really see any effect of those "Mini black holes" as of now. Perhaps we'll be needing some special stuff for it to work properly? :D
according to the lore, they're super tiny, so you really aren't going to see them.
edit: i think, my metric is fail :P it says something like 1.8 millimeter (IIRC)
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1.8 mm Black Hole would rip apart anything. How it's suppose to go away/die and not just feed endlessly?
And i read somewhere that if Earth would be black hole it would be big as taw (marble) like small glass ball ~10mm in diameter.
1.8mm black hole would have 2x Mass of Mars. (if i didn't get this wrong).
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Description says the Mjolnir fires micro singularities.
And micro- (μ) a prefix in the SI and other systems of units denoting a factor of 10−6 (one millionth)
So yeah, really small.
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- Significantly reduce the damage
- keep flux cost as-is.
- Make the projectile not die upon impact.
So it'll travel through shields and hull doing damage each tick.
The projectile only dies when it reaches its maximum range.
This would make the weapon totally unique, both in game mechanics and in strategic use.
Such a weapon would be less effective against small targets but deadly against voluminous ones.
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- Significantly reduce the damage
- keep flux cost as-is.
- Make the projectile not die upon impact.
So it'll travel through shields and hull doing damage each tick.
The projectile only dies when it reaches its maximum range.
This would make the weapon totally unique, both in game mechanics and in strategic use.
Such a weapon would be less effective against small targets but deadly against voluminous ones.
Sounds awesome, but spamming them would probably be tac lance OP.
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- Significantly reduce the damage
- keep flux cost as-is.
- Make the projectile not die upon impact.
So it'll travel through shields and hull doing damage each tick.
The projectile only dies when it reaches its maximum range.
This would make the weapon totally unique, both in game mechanics and in strategic use.
Such a weapon would be less effective against small targets but deadly against voluminous ones.
that doesn't make any sense since it shoots solid slugs and detonates on impact.
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- Significantly reduce the damage
- keep flux cost as-is.
- Make the projectile not die upon impact.
So it'll travel through shields and hull doing damage each tick.
The projectile only dies when it reaches its maximum range.
This would make the weapon totally unique, both in game mechanics and in strategic use.
Such a weapon would be less effective against small targets but deadly against voluminous ones.
that doesn't make any sense since it shoots solid slugs and detonates on impact.
He is proposing a change. As in not the same.
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Lemme just post the lore here for convenience's sake:
A medium range cannon that delivers superior damage over time and also has a significant EMP payload.
A very advanced design, the Mjolnir is technically a magneto-gravitic shell projector, not a standard cannon. The micro capacitors within each shell are able to deliver enough energy to create a localized singularity with a Schwarzschild radius of 1.8 millimeters. The built-in gravitic lens devastates all nearby matter and creates the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) effect, disabling the target's weapons and systems.
He is proposing a change. As in not the same.
I guess we can alter the lore a bit. But it does shoot solid slugs.
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Played with this weapon for a bit because of this thread and it just lacks the wonderful stuff that makes ballistics good. The fact that it does 100% to everything is its biggest weakness. I'd much rather have 2 different guns, one Kinetic and one explosive. the gun doesn't have any real advantages over other weapons that i've seen. Its a fine gun but there's much better ones for less OP and cost.
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How about instead of full penetration, partial penetration. Instead the 'Initial' impact makes the shot act like it just hit maximum range and starts to fade. But the bullet doesn't disappear until this occurs. So while each tick does damage it's not likely to go through both sides or do full damage per tick.
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I lurves lore! Just saying, to get a blackhole the size of 1.8 millmeters, it'll have to have atleast 1/5th the Earth's mass 3:
Edit: I like partial penetration more than full penetration, full pens tend to lag, and how about this, maximum partial pen damag,e and then the shell disappears, but the moment the shell contacts the hull, a minimum damage is applied.
I'll just Elaborate on Reshy's Example:
Shell does max 700 damage
Shell enters hull
250 damage instantly
+ 150 tick of damage ( or half it to 75 and make it require longer contact)
+ 150
+ 150
Max damage reached
Shell disappears,
Maybe if shields are still up, only Reduced tick damage is applied.
+75
+75
+75
For a max of only 225
On smaller ships they'll recieve less damage ( which to me seems strange since blackhole but anyway)
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How about instead of full penetration, partial penetration. Instead the 'Initial' impact makes the shot act like it just hit maximum range and starts to fade. But the bullet doesn't disappear until this occurs. So while each tick does damage it's not likely to go through both sides or do full damage per tick.
or no penetration since the bullet detonates ( implodes? i suppose ) and creates a matter destroying singularity at the impact point. <.<
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What if the black hole stays for a while at the point of impact and DOT anything that runs over it? Would force ships to redirect themself.
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That would need a lore article on shields which would prob make alex spew out some fluff :P
But as is shields are king, they blockz evarything.
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How about just giving it higher muzzle speed ?
Something like lets say twice or 1.5X the speed of a normal bullet
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A schwarzchild radius is not how big it is, but how far from it's center light has to be to be able to escape it's gravity field. Black holes are all infinitely small according to theory.
But arcibalde was right - with a schwarzchild radius of 1.8 millimeters a black hole would be very heavy. Not twice the mass of mars, more like twice the mass of the moon.
Or maybe it is not inaccuracy. We don't know how big these ships are, do we? :o
On the penetration idea, it does make sense, but I think it would make the game less fun. Either you can stomp all big ships easily, or it is still under-powered because it can't kill small ships yet is not great against big ships either.
And no, I do not use this weapon.
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- Significantly reduce the damage
- keep flux cost as-is.
- Make the projectile not die upon impact.
So it'll travel through shields and hull doing damage each tick.
The projectile only dies when it reaches its maximum range.
This would make the weapon totally unique, both in game mechanics and in strategic use.
Such a weapon would be less effective against small targets but deadly against voluminous ones.
that doesn't make any sense since it shoots solid slugs and detonates on impact.
As of now it does, but if alex changes the system it might not
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i don't see why cost should be a consideration factor when it can be made moot.
That's why you can't grasp why Mjolnirs are bad. In vanilla Starfarer, there's almost much no such thing as making flux costs moot. Flux efficiency is one of the most important stats for a capital ship. It gives you more flux to fire your guns and keep your shields up for longer. Having efficient weapons is both an offensive and defensive choice.
The only way for flux cost to be moot is if your dissipation is greater that your upkeep. 2 Mjolnirs on their own use up almost all of a Conquest's theoretical max dissipation, and uses that flux less efficiently than any other large ballistic weapon. (And so you know, every point of flux dissipation is more valuable than the last, since it dissipates a greater percentage of the remaining flux buildup than the last)
Even if you go for some combination other than Storm Needler and Hephaestus, it would give you more OP to spend on hull mods or additional capacitors. No matter how you look at it, Mjolnirs are bad.
i'd like to think i can't grasp why they are bad because i don't quite believe in this nonsense that you just presented to me.
If you really, honestly care why some people here think you're a troll, this little exchange shows off most of the problem. I'm not going to sugar coat this at all, but please understand that my intent here is not to aggravate you.
The starting point is that you don't understand game mechanics. While not getting the nuts-and-bolts of a video game certainly doesn't make you a bad person, it does mean you end up in a lot of arguments, which is where things start to go downhill. Naufrago has done a very good job of illustrating exactly what makes the Mjolnir not worth using, but his point goes over your head. What really gets people riled up isn't that you disagreed, but that you often come across as disrespectful in doing so. In this case, you're dismissing his entire statement as nonsense. Even if you weren't trying to be rude, it certainly sounded that way to everyone else. The combination of being wrong and disrespectful absolutely drives people crazy and it's why you get so much anger thrown at you. You also have a habit of getting worked up when people repeatedly disagree with you, which means that these arguments have a tendency to turn ugly. It even happened on the forum thread that was cross-posted here. People will always disagree with you on the internet, even when you're right, but as a general rule the first person to get angry ends up looking like a jackass and is probably going to bear the brunt of the moderation.
In this particular instance, you need to understand resource management. Flux and OP are limited resources. They aren't the only resources a ship has, but they're probably the most important when it comes to design. The heart of making a good ship is to use these limited resources to the greatest possible effect. That's what makes the Mjolnir bad. The damage output is fine; it's pretty typical for a weapon in that category. However, other large ballistics can give you the same damage for a much lower flux cost. This means the Mjolnir is a poor choice, because why would I use one thing when something else can do the same job cheaper? You can build your ship to compensate for the Mjolnir's high flux cost, but that's not really solving the problem. That's flux you can't use to keep shields up or fire other weapons, or maybe it's OP you had to spend on vents instead of something else. If you went for a more efficient option, you could get the same damage output and something else in addition using the same amount of your resources.
This doesn't mean you can't use the Mjolnir or that it doesn't work. You can certainly throw some on a ship, go click on things, and have them blow up. It's just worse than other means to the same end, which means it should be changed to be competitive with the other options. That's another thing you should understand. If something is working badly (or too well), the best thing you can do for the game is to call attention to it and explain why it should be changed. Defending something that's bad does nobody any favors. It's not a matter of sticking up for the underdog; pointing out problems so they can be fixed helps the game get better, which I'm sure is something you want. This game is very early in development, so balance will be changed regularly and user feedback is one of the best tools Alex has for this. Think of everyone as a playtester. We aren't just here to fly around and blow up spaceships; we're here to help making flying around and blowing up spaceships as much fun as it can possibly be, and that means giving feedback on potential improvements.
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I think this comes down to the point that flux does matter, just making sure its clear and in a single sentence... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex)
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No need for any personal attacks or bashing on this forum. Enough is enough and we're almost at the point where we can say we're somewhat civilized, that the moment any of us express an opinion or a confusion we don't get immediately shut down by the community. That being said, I hope that Catra as well as the rest of us can restrain ourselves (including yourself voyager).
Now back on the topic of Mjolnir balance, anyone like the idea of the Mjolnir being a way to suddenly slow down other ships? (like how the graviton beam gradually reduces speed, but instead of a beam, implemented in one powerful shot)
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No need for any personal attacks or bashing on this forum. Enough is enough and we're almost at the point where we can say we're somewhat civilized, that the moment any of us express an opinion or a confusion we don't get immediately shut down by the community. That being said, I hope that Catra as well as the rest of us can restrain ourselves (including yourself voyager).
Now back on the topic of Mjolnir balance, anyone like the idea of the Mjolnir being a way to suddenly slow down other ships? (like how the graviton beam gradually reduces speed, but instead of a beam, implemented in one powerful shot)
Easy , just increase the Impact of it, using that, I just made a tractor beam and DAMN it is AWESOME!
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not in particular, there's enough ways to close / widen the gap.
i think we just gotta settle that it's a novelty weapon that is supposed to be used by one ship with one specific loadout.
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For the time being at least. Who knows what'll happen in regards to its versatility. Just look at how the Omen changed: From a joke, around the level of the Buffalo to something that makes most people crap themselves. Now, the Mjolnir might not get that kind of beefing up, but it could become quite a niche weapon further than "Yeah, only this ship can mount it for practical reasons"
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not in particular, there's enough ways to close / widen the gap.
i think we just gotta settle that it's a novelty weapon that is supposed to be used by one ship with one specific loadout.
If alex wanted that he would make it a built in weapon like he did with the onslaught
However, he didn't and so the community is proposing ways to make the weapon balanced
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If alex wanted that he would make it a built in weapon like he did with the onslaught
Not true. Making it a built in weapon would force you to use it, while not having it as a built in lets you use other weapons instead.
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not in particular, there's enough ways to close / widen the gap.
i think we just gotta settle that it's a novelty weapon that is supposed to be used by one ship with one specific loadout.
If alex wanted that he would make it a built in weapon like he did with the onslaught
However, he didn't and so the community is proposing ways to make the weapon balanced
Frankly, it's not good even on the Conquest. The Conquest is just the only ship that can even try to use it.
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Technically the Mjolnir is used on two ships, the Elite Onslaught and the Conquest :P
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Technically the Mjolnir is used on two ships, the Elite Onslaught and the Conquest :P
If alex wanted that he would make it a built in weapon like he did with the onslaught
Not true. Making it a built in weapon would force you to use it, while not having it as a built in lets you use other weapons instead.
beat me to it
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I think everyone is forgetting it deals EMP damage too.
Which puts it up there as a really good support weapon that deals good damage. Even more so when tacking high armour targets. Who cares if its not munching their armour when they can't fire back! Phase beams and Mjolnir and EMP oh my!
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personally I think if you're spending a large ballistic slot for the weapon, it better be able to hold a spearhead...
Maybe if it had a tad more range that would be more forgivable... not sure about that.
the dominator, onslaught, and conquest are mostly frontliners anyway...
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Who knows how it will be in finished game. Maybe you ain't gonna find that easy large weapons so when you finally find one Mjolnr you gonna jump sky high ;D Then you ain't gonna look its flux/dmg/bla output you gonna be plain happy. ;D
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Who knows how it will be in finished game. Maybe you ain't gonna find that easy large weapons so when you finally find one Mjolnr you gonna jump sky high ;D Then you ain't gonna look its flux/dmg/bla output you gonna be plain happy. ;D
yeah thats what i think as well even though id probably still take few HVDs+some medium HE gun or two over Mjolnir
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I think everyone is forgetting it deals EMP damage too.
Which puts it up there as a really good support weapon that deals good damage. Even more so when tacking high armour targets. Who cares if its not munching their armour when they can't fire back! Phase beams and Mjolnir and EMP oh my!
It actually is pretty decent, but only against low-tech that don't have shields. High-tech ships can just shrug it off because of the low(relatively) DPS.
I think it's main aspect is that it does energy damage, so it isn't gimped against shields or armor(But is doens't have an advantage over one either, unless you take the EMP into account). It's also the most(or at least one of the most) damaging guns that do energy damage, and it can be fitted on low-tech. Maybe he could make the gun itself universal(So it can be fit on ballistic and energy)?