And yes, if you blow these fleets up, it’ll make the Knights really unhappy with you.So would I still be able to visit Gilead since Gilead isn't technically controlled by the Knights of Ludd per say...
SpoilerWill the Knights of Ludd "faction" exist a-kin to the Lion's Guard or will they still be a part of the Luddic Church?
I'm thrilled to see that there is probably no "pope" (?) in-game wise and there are many shrines (or sects) that make up the Church's membership. This gives up much lore to build off for modded Luddic factions.[close]
Either way the dichotomies of the Church are RIGHT up my alleyway, especially considering the very real in-universe examples of rampant technological development biting humanity in the rear.
And there's also the fact that, looking at some of the technologies available to the player now that colony items are a thing, what we know of Ludd's teachings about "devouring God's creation" have a bit more bite to them. The Mantle Bore, for example, given that it raises planetary ore and organics productions by three units, or three powers, would in fact be capable of hollowing out a planet completely and collapsing it, albeit on a timescale longer than the game is (generally)assumed to run. So you benefit, but it is in fact destroying a whole planet. You are devouring God's creation.
But then, of course, you get around to the fact that abandoning much of this sort of thing would lend a lot more proportional power to terraformed or naturally-terran-climate worlds like Gilead, and how that'd just so happen to give the ruling bodies of world like that more influence and power...
Honestly the Luddites might seem totally at odds with science fiction and generally everything that a person, or player, might want. But from my own life as I have gotten older I find the ideals and concepts of not wanting to accept every little new bit of technology as fast as it can be made to be more and more alluring. Or perhaps I simply missed the train to the front?
But then, of course, you get around to the fact that abandoning much of this sort of thing would lend a lot more proportional power to terraformed or naturally-terran-climate worlds like Gilead, and how that'd just so happen to give the ruling bodies of worlds like that more influence and power...
And I'm just dying to know how Mazalot Works™ in general. A Luddic-majority planet under the effective Kazeronian boot? The mind whirls at the possibilities...
In my head canon, Ludd was right. The Domain's reach was beyond its grasp and the Collapse was as catastrophic as it was predictable. Ludd didn't need to be a literal prophet to see the writing on the wall but anyone butting against the status quo tends to get put down pretty hard by the system. I would absolutely *love* to see a return of Ludd, as I don't think too many sci-fi stories try to wrestle with the ramifications of the savior of faith returning as promised. Of course, "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." Would the Church and the Path split? Would the Sector at large change in any meaningful way? Would Ludd's return, and of course, whatever revelation he brings even be accepted by the faithful (or by the skeptics)? Would his return be heralded with signs and wonders or would it come not as a bang, but a whimper?
Hmmmm! (Yeah, the League needs a lot of love as well. Don't worry- we know.)On a side note, happy to hear PL's on your radar, too! I heard Stian has cooked up the long overdue PL theme, so I'm looking forward to experience how you continue balancing out the TT-Heg axis of story with the rest of the factions.
I really enjoyed the blog post. I've always been fascinated by advanced civilizations and their relationship with religion especially ones where the ramifications of faith are really explored.
What I appreciate about the Church in Starsector is that it's not the joke faction (that belongs to the Diktat and there was weeping and gnashing of teeth...:))
Fascinating stuff. Though, I have to ask... "look out for cliffracers"?
One thing I've idly thought about re. Luddics is how different persons in the faith might react to meeting an AI character in a social context or similar (there's a few such characters in the modiverse, I wrote one of them). Could they hold a civil conversation with it? Would they be metaphorically warding off the demon every half-minute, or start hurling accusations of various evils? Would they try to destroy it immediately after, assuming they possessed the means to do so?
I like it, can't wait for the release btw :)
And I'm just dying to know how Mazalot Works™ in general. A Luddic-majority planet under the effective Kazeronian boot? The mind whirls at the possibilities...I don't remember Mazalot being controlled by Kazeron, only by an oppressive regime that was kept in power by the League (and I can hardly imagine that Kazeron is the only player interested in keeping the status quo), has it changed recently?
I think it's because the League is more like a Kazeron Hegemony in all but name under the 'stated' goal of being anti-hegemony.
Sorta like how the ancient Delian League was more of an Athenian "Empire" in practice.
I think it's because the League is more like a Kazeron Hegemony in all but name under the 'stated' goal of being anti-hegemony.
Sorta like how the ancient Delian League was more of an Athenian "Empire" in practice.
It's a league of equal planets, but some are more equal than others. Kazeron is just the most equalest, but others still have power.
Maybe other League members should be made stronger, then.
What power do the other League members have? Madeira has fuel, Olinadu has volatiles, and Mazalot has people and food, but what does Cibola, Mayasura, Salamanca, Laicaille Habitat, and the whole Westernesse system have to justify their positions in the League and the game? They basically just exist in little lore bubbles.Westernesse is a cultural powerhouse. Mayasura holds political significance, even if it has little political power by itself. Laicaille is a recreational hotspot, kinda like irl Monaco. Salamanca, on the other hand, is the spoiler that signals independent worlds that the doors to the League are open to, well, anyone. Cibola is... a s**thole, everybody has one...
Re. Space Pope: Right, yeah. My intent is for the Church's ruling body to be a sort of council, which... something will get into, at some point, probably.
Mayasura is the one that got "colony dropped" not long before the game start, right?no, that's Mairaath. And it was like ~120 years before the game start iirc. Before the League formed.
I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.You know, as much as I would love that real life Churches led by example, I can't really say they have ever shied from "high elf" architecture when they could. I'd say the Luddics are fairly realistic.
For a person that usually doesn't care much about lore posts, this was very interesting. I really like where the game is going, having a world where each corner of the sector has a unique feel to it.
Oh, a quick question, David: Can the more overlooked Independent worlds like Eldfell or Cethlenn expect someuniquificationidentity upgrade, too? Being Independent is a downgrade in appeal by itself, but colonies like Nomios and Maxios manage to leverage the faction theme to feel peerlessly unique. Agreus got its little spotlight in the Gate campaing; can we expect more of these in the future?
Mayasura is the one that got "colony dropped" not long before the game start, right?
Though I do wish more about how the politics work got more detail. It kinda sounds like the Persean Sector almost still operates as a polity under Domain law? Maybe the courts operating in different star systems still use the same body of law, but interpret it differently? Because while the Hegemony is fine as just an army, how a corporation exists without a government to define it boggles the mind (a corporation is literally a limited legal exemption from liability if you spend money how government tells you).
I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.
...
Luddics have so much potential please do not *** this up so bad
(What's a corporation whose 'parent' state has withered away? Maybe just another state with a peculiar theory of legitimacy and rights/responsibilities that probably resembles feudalism in some way? Just speculating off the cuff here; talking about Tri-Tachyon is, alas, outside the scope of what I want to get into here ... )
I'm feeling charitable today, so here's a reply: I think there's an argument to be made for the architectural style of "solarpunk-gothic", but I actually don't love that a lot of people immediately think "Rivendell", so... I'll think about how to better visually express what I'm going for.
Might be better to add a bank somewhere in the background that's printing money to continue old Domain economic policies, and the other factions are tolerating it because that continues the status quo.
(Ooh, I was toying with the bank idea purely in my head a few years back. It was going to be called "The Human Trust" or something along those lines for maximum ironic set-ups, but it just kept coming back to being a bit too esoteric for this kind of game.
Similarly, what the heck is a "credit"? Fans have called it "space bitcoin", but... credits are actually useful and stable. I'm not answering anything at all besides "scifi money".)
The Luddic church is an institution of immense piety compared to the rest of the sector, standard architecture in the sector is extravagant so it would make sense for the church to want more simplicity, especially a church *against* technology and extravagance. Their ships look simple, their outfits too, their structures should also be simple. The presence of God is only in places where the presence of Man is weak, extravagant churches go against that, frescos, statues, it all goes against thatAnd I thought only SD gets unironic fanboys :D Care to roleplay an in-universe theological dispute? :^)
Slap down a delta core AI into every hyperspace relay, and you can have a centralized blockchain.If you've got a centralized authority anyway, there's no reason to use a blockchain instead of any of the many faster and more efficient databases. Just use a standard digital currency.
The Luddic church is an institution of immense piety compared to the rest of the sector, standard architecture in the sector is extravagant so it would make sense for the church to want more simplicity, especially a church *against* technology and extravagance. Their ships look simple, their outfits too, their structures should also be simple. The presence of God is only in places where the presence of Man is weak, extravagant churches go against that, frescos, statues, it all goes against that
Back to Luddism: no religion is a monolith of belief. Keeping doctrinal purity, particularly over interstellar distance and across borders, is like building a tower out of dry sand. It’s a constant effort to pull outliers back into line, and meanwhile all sorts of people keep finding all sorts of ways of relating to and interpreting the tenets of the Luddic faith.
Shrines give us a way to show this: each shrine is on a different world with its own problems, factions, and people, and themes.
It's taken me a little while, but I've finally pinned down what shrinequest reminded me of.
Remember Homeworld?
Okay. Well, it had a standalone half-sequel called Cataclysm that was a essentially a closer focus on one specific nation/clan within that group after they made it "home".
The game itself is standard Homeworld RTS stuff, if a little goofy (read: amazing). But that's not relevant. So where's the dumb hors going now then...?
It came with a fairly chunky thermal-bind instruction manual, as was normal at the time. (PDF (http://sierrachest.com/gfx/games/Homeworld_C/box/Homeworld_-_Cataclysm_-_UK_Manual_-_PC.pdf))
And about 20% of this manual was basically a story/"history" book, full of all kinds of stuff about how this one group changed over the years leading up to the game etc.
And specifically how they built a "trail" of temples along a hard to follow path that ended up becoming a sort of religous tourist attraction.
And that's what my memory pinged on. Funny what meat recalls...
Kinda happy I remembered that game, cos now I'm gonna find where it's gotten to and see if it will work on a modern system.
You should really try to express the pious nature of the church, yes gothic architecture exists, but the catholic church was never the most pious institution, or the most orthodox when it came to rules. The church gives me eastern orthodox vibes, bending rules, reading through the lines, and the general dislike for technology with them trying to have everything as simple as possible. It could all just be my headcanon, but the church and the path are my favourite factions. Gothic architecture in my opinion comes off as a middle finger to God, building as high as possible and desecrating the sky. The luddics also exist in a world where high class architecture is normal, if their nature is to contradict the world, they should be building basic, yet still expert crafted stone structures.For a person that usually doesn't care much about lore posts, this was very interesting. I really like where the game is going, having a world where each corner of the sector has a unique feel to it.
Well, thank you!Oh, a quick question, David: Can the more overlooked Independent worlds like Eldfell or Cethlenn expect someuniquificationidentity upgrade, too? Being Independent is a downgrade in appeal by itself, but colonies like Nomios and Maxios manage to leverage the faction theme to feel peerlessly unique. Agreus got its little spotlight in the Gate campaing; can we expect more of these in the future?
Ah, answering is outside the scope of this blog post. (But, ahem, the logical conclusion of the approach thus far described is to emphasize unique interests of various underserved locations.)Mayasura is the one that got "colony dropped" not long before the game start, right?
I want to say yes to troll everyone, but no.Though I do wish more about how the politics work got more detail. It kinda sounds like the Persean Sector almost still operates as a polity under Domain law? Maybe the courts operating in different star systems still use the same body of law, but interpret it differently? Because while the Hegemony is fine as just an army, how a corporation exists without a government to define it boggles the mind (a corporation is literally a limited legal exemption from liability if you spend money how government tells you).
Yeah, my model is (perhaps obviously) the post-Roman Empire. Everyone appeals to (or against) a formerly shared source of legitimacy (or illegitimacy) but is starting to drift in their own directions.
(What's a corporation whose 'parent' state has withered away? Maybe just another state with a peculiar theory of legitimacy and rights/responsibilities that probably resembles feudalism in some way? Just speculating off the cuff here; talking about Tri-Tachyon is, alas, outside the scope of what I want to get into here ... )I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.
...
Luddics have so much potential please do not *** this up so bad
Hi! Welcome to the forums.
While I think there is a compelling point at the core of your post, you've managed to botch it by coming off as a huge jerk in how you've said it. Please take a moment to review the forum rules (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2668.0), particularly the first rule. If you want to persuade people of anything through writing you are going to have to seriously re-think how you're expressing your thoughts here.
I'm feeling charitable today, so here's a reply: I think there's an argument to be made for the architectural style of "solarpunk-gothic", but I actually don't love that a lot of people immediately think "Rivendell", so... I'll think about how to better visually express what I'm going for.
Their space architecture should also look a lot more like current "low tech" space architecture, especially russian stuff.Oh man, have you picked a terrible combination of time and topic to spout that something should "look like russian stuff" xD On a related note: Have you thought that perhaps in game, Pathers are thinking what you are thinking and have about as much power as you do to change something about that?
The Luddic Church never struck me as particularly iconoclast. They don't like the rampant use of advanced technology or the abuse of luxuries, but that doesn't mean that they dislike architecture or artwork praising of the divine. If anything, grand temples, extravagant shrines, and other theocratic art is on point considering we already had Beholder Station.Beholder station is a modified research outpost, the inside of it is pretty empty and lacks iconography.
And that's my point, the church hates luxury and extravagance, so their architecture being extravagant is a slap to the face
Yeah, I got the notion of post-Roman Empire, but feudalism was largely a reform of the de facto slavery of the late Roman Empire.Feudalism was a product of unstability. Free men would become serfs and pay various taxes, while the nobility would protect them. It worked well enough at the time.
Similarly, what the heck is a "credit"? Fans have called it "space bitcoin", but... credits are actually useful and stable. I'm not answering anything at all besides "scifi money".)A fiat currency. Unless it can be used for something and absolutely cannot be replicated with something else. For example, you can make a knife out of copper or iron, if you lack one or the other. If ship loicences charge you 500 crabbits commission and you cannot make that ship (or a substitute ship) without them, then they actually get some intrinsic value. Also, just like in real life, they're the funny numbers that stop the gov't from throwing you in jail for not paying taxes.
this is all great stuff, it's lovely to see that the two most "nothing" factions (SD & LC) are getting some much-deserved attention!You wrote "SD" instead of "PL" there. SD was characterised alright as a totalitarian dictatorship, run by a egotistic dictator elevated by a cult personality, who rose to power during an intervention in a volatile system. PL, on the other hand... is not Hegemony.
You're missing my point, i'm not saying they should live in mudhuts, i'm saying the church should take more inspiration from less famous real life architecture that might not be so well known to westerners.And that's my point, the church hates luxury and extravagance, so their architecture being extravagant is a slap to the face
Just because they hate the reckless consumption of worlds done by the Domain, doesn't mean they all have to be poor, know-nothing people living in dirt or stone huts. There may be some sects that follow that, but the Luddic faith is a relatively new and evolving one, the doctrine is still forming, and the ideas of what it should be are vague. Boiling down the entire group into anti-tech dirt-eaters makes the faction a cardboard cutout to laugh at. The extremists are either going to be pathers, or completely irrelevant farming communities, not the ones with the major churches. The Luddic church is at the end of the day, still a space-faring polity, they need technology, they just don't want to use it as excessively as the Domain did.
And anyway, what better way to show the glory of God than a massive, awe-inspiring cathedral. That's why people made them.
[...] The church gives me eastern orthodox vibes, bending rules, reading through the lines, and the general dislike for technology with them trying to have everything as simple as possible. [...]
Russia was historically a west LARPer[...] The church gives me eastern orthodox vibes, bending rules, reading through the lines, and the general dislike for technology with them trying to have everything as simple as possible. [...]
If the church gives you eastern orthodox vibes, then you should be totally happy that the image looks as it does tbh.
(https://i.imgur.com/k5YFCgm.png)
(https://fractalsoftworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/shrine2.jpg)
Yeah I don't know of a religion that doesn't want big grand buildings for prayer other then those that cannot afford to build them. Definitely not just a western thing.Yeah but those look way more humble than anything western, because that's the whole point.
The Hagia Sophia, Dome of the Rock, and Saint Basil's Cathedral to name a few.
Bit of a contradiction there to say that these massive monuments are humble.On my phone so can't post images, but googlenplaces like šibenik, split, zadar, rovinj, dubrovnik and their old city centers and cathedrals, the haiga sophia is also a good example. Just look at it, you'll get what i mean. They're large structures, large domes, but that's it, no big gothic spires or butresses or windows, imo it's more sacred than any gothic church because it's supposed to lack "human" elements
I mean a church next to my local workplace is small and humble without embellishments but that's because it's supposed to service a village.
A Gothic cathedral is far less grand then the Hagia Sophia or Dome of the Rock personally.
Perhaps I am simply having difficulty distinguishing what you mean?
What is this wacky timeline when I'm hearing about my (mostly) Dalmatian cities in a game forum that's talking about a blog post which gives more lore to the religious fanatics of said game. It would be hilarious if one of the arts in the game reminded me of a building I see almost every day...Odakle si
From what I can see you have a real penchant for the Pre-Romanesque and Romanesque architecture, with one of the examples presented being described as being Baroque (Church of St. Euphemia, Rovinj) which is hilarious as that style is FAR from being humble with all the embroidery and paintings.I was reffering to the church of saint donat
Gothic architecture is just the evolution of this style of this construction anyway built in places that didn't see the development of Romanesque architecture as they weren't the core parts of the Roman Empire. Not that I am saying we can't or shouldn't have it mind, but one of the reasons we even had Romanesque architecture wasn't because it was supposed to be humble, but more because people didn't know how to build stuff any taller then it was.
It's just the change of style over time by the people who lived and in and took part in the faith and wanted to emulate the styles used by the former Roman Empire.
By extension to Starsector, would they be building Domainesque architecture? Who knows really. Gothic or Romanesque are not too removed from one another really, just styles of building a really big building as it took people at the time, not greater or lesser.
Church of Saint Donat isn't what I would describe as humble but more, recycled.Ok so there is no need to be insulting.
But yeah anything and everything could appear to be more humble then a cyberpunk dystopian Domain planetwide city. Which could include every modern day city on earth in it.
So I don't really see what the difference is between the Church in Starsector using the old Domain cities and not expanding them, and Croatia recycling old Roman temples and forums into new churches.
Like that isn't humble, it's more just cheap.
Why would the planets and factions of a fictional space society parallel historical earth?Because it's cool as ***
Ok so there is no need to be insulting.
You get what i mean, i'll assume you've never been to any of those places, but it's this awesome mix of roman/medieval architecture and modern wires, pipes, antenna and stuff on top. Sure it sjouldn't look as old, but it should look inspired by it, cause imo those places are just so cool and it's a shame the only famous things shot there are game of thrones and like 2 minutes of one of the new star wars movies. Maybe i'm project nationalism here, but it's cool and underappreciated architecture that deserves a real spotlight.
Imo starsector hss the problem of just being kinda generic, the church has the most potential to not he generic and the lord of the rings stuff just bothers me. It's honestly a unique faction in general, in any scifi fiction, it should parade that instead of snuffing it. I just like the whole second coming of christ vibes
If you want my honest opinion, the new church lore feels like it was written by a westerner, someone who doesn't live in a society that actually holds the Church and religion very highly, here the idea of a church shooting up to the sky was almost heresy until just 200 years ago
I'm calling it now, we could ban this kid today and nothing of value will be lost. I give him six months tops, but we could start a pool.This type of behaviour is even worse than the original rude posts...
I'm calling it now, we could ban this kid today and nothing of value will be lost. I give him six months tops, but we could start a pool.
Please treat other forum members with respect. This is completely uncalled for.Noted. I found the posts aggravating, but I should have left that out, yes.
Being respectful to others is a rule for everyone, no matter what others are posting, but modder privilege I guess.I got my warning, just like anyone else would, and I took my lumps. I don't see any special privileges being applied here.
All i'm saying is this new luddic *** is turnung out generic and am offering different examples to how it can be betterIf you want my honest opinion, the new church lore feels like it was written by a westerner, someone who doesn't live in a society that actually holds the Church and religion very highly, here the idea of a church shooting up to the sky was almost heresy until just 200 years ago
have you considered that different cultures and societies may show their high regard for the church in different ways
"only x region REALLY values the church, everywhere else has always been degenerate sinners" is the most milquetoast form of religious elitism and applying it to videogame architecture because you headcanon them as Chad Ultra Orthodox Traditionalists(tm) is pretty funny, if not exactly productive
Ooh, this reminds me of my first naive steps on the internet when I was milked as lolcow before being uncompromisingly banned forever on a pokemon forum xD Speaks volumes of the community that there are actually voices against being cynical jerks towards fans with childlike mentality (no offense, Neldonax, you do come off like that). I applaud that.I'm calling it now, we could ban this kid today and nothing of value will be lost. I give him six months tops, but we could start a pool.This type of behaviour is even worse than the original rude posts...
All i'm saying is this new luddic *** is turnung out generic and am offering different examples to how it can be better
Because if i just outright say i don't like it i need to provide a reason, so i provided my reason. If i don't provide a reason i get harped for not doing that, i don't get the issue.
i believe you said quite a number of other things that (imo) paint a pretty clear picture of your issue with it
including but not limited to arguing against the piety of the catholic church, describing gothic architecture as "a middle finger to god", explicitly describing any culture other than small eastern european nations as never having placed faith highly, insisting on the idea that actually it's visually complex architecture that's advanced and not holy and visually simple (but no less complex or, arguably, ostentatious) architecture is great and pious (even though understated-but-grand architecture is still plenty showy, just in a different way), and also outright admitting that it's probably just your headcanon
spoiler: it is in fact your headcanon, yes
my gripe personally isn't with you wanting them to be different in a certain way - everyone wants some part of just about anything to be different in some fashion
it's with you awkwardly masking it behind weird proxy arguments about piety and religious architecture when it's just not liking them not fitting the mental image you had for them in all respects (which is an especially odd decision when you're talking about a group that explicitly don't have a truly centralised standard, and whose faith is shaped heavily by location and local populace)
it's different when it's official, sure i can just make my own illustrations but that's just not the same.
@Neldonax
Why do you insist on the developer submitting to your ideas when you could draw them up yourself and mod them in? If your idea's as cool as you're trying to make us believe, convince us. (And no, spamming googled images doesn't count, nor do arguments)
Yeah i may have gone too far with my opinions, but it all plays into the fact that the luddic church has way more potential than just being the space papacy.
Your headcanon about the church might differ from mine, it might align with the devs views, but i payed full price for this game and i get to have a voice if i feel it's going in the wrong direction.oh what i'd want is pretty different from their actual direction too, don't get me wrong
I like the luddics and i don't want them to go in the complete opposite direction of what i wanted them to be
Because they’re sticklers for rules, for self discipline, for restraint, for acting piously. Basically nothing like the average player.Nonsense, me starting the Third AI War to get more profit out of my genetically engineered dinosaur parks is the height of...well, I'll get back to you on that one ;).
Very much looking forward to the update, and seeing if taking a pilgrim's tour can change my mind about the Luddic Church faction (my current view of them is...one dimensional, I guess is the best way to put it). That said is the mechanic where Luddic Church/Pather worlds will install colony items (fusion lamp, mantle bore, etc.) as readily as any other faction, only without suffering from pather cells because of pather interest, changed at all? If not I'm foreseeing the possibility of ironic text if, for example, one of the shrine keepers talks about the destructive side of the old Domain terraforming practices/projects while the planet is currently using a mantle bore to generate more resources.
I was not aware that was a mechanic, testing that immediately.Very much looking forward to the update, and seeing if taking a pilgrim's tour can change my mind about the Luddic Church faction (my current view of them is...one dimensional, I guess is the best way to put it). That said is the mechanic where Luddic Church/Pather worlds will install colony items (fusion lamp, mantle bore, etc.) as readily as any other faction, only without suffering from pather cells because of pather interest, changed at all? If not I'm foreseeing the possibility of ironic text if, for example, one of the shrine keepers talks about the destructive side of the old Domain terraforming practices/projects while the planet is currently using a mantle bore to generate more resources.
You can get the Pathers to leave you alone if you make the Pathers friendly to you too. That's the reason that the church isn't targeted by Pather cells, they start the game with a high opinion of one another.
pather cells and pather faction are two different unrelated things, think of it like being friends with ISIS but that doesn't stop terrorism cause most terrorists aren't directly affiliated with ISIS. But yeah the chances for cells should still get reduced, are you still using AI cores and stuff on your colony, brotha?I was not aware that was a mechanic, testing that immediately.Very much looking forward to the update, and seeing if taking a pilgrim's tour can change my mind about the Luddic Church faction (my current view of them is...one dimensional, I guess is the best way to put it). That said is the mechanic where Luddic Church/Pather worlds will install colony items (fusion lamp, mantle bore, etc.) as readily as any other faction, only without suffering from pather cells because of pather interest, changed at all? If not I'm foreseeing the possibility of ironic text if, for example, one of the shrine keepers talks about the destructive side of the old Domain terraforming practices/projects while the planet is currently using a mantle bore to generate more resources.
You can get the Pathers to leave you alone if you make the Pathers friendly to you too. That's the reason that the church isn't targeted by Pather cells, they start the game with a high opinion of one another.
...No, even at 100 relationship with the Path I'm still getting an active cell, which church/pather planets don't get if they get 8+ interest. Do I need 100 relationship with the church as well or something else?
The colony I tested has...eh, only a modest 50 pather interest worth of buildings and AI cores (lightly modded game, so yeah, I went a little overboard), so if being friends with the pathers only raises the limits I can believe I still crossed the line. And circumnavigated a the globe crossing it several more times afterwards. I'm not sure, though.
I didn't insult anyone, i stated my honest opinion on somethingClaiming that other religious/social groupings are lacking in piety (don't "hold the Church and religion very highly") and no-true-Scotsmanning examples that happen to fall within your own group ("west LARPer") is an insult to anyone in one of those groups who believes their faith is important to them. This is something you presumably immediately understand were someone to claim that your community is impious, unless you actually think being irreligious is NBD, and the fact that you turned this into a competition about who is more faithful suggests otherwise.
Blog post here (https://fractalsoftworks.com/2022/07/19/the-pilgrims-path/).I love these new pieces! Great job!
@NeldonaxHow exactly is he harrassing the developers? He is typing out posts in the developers own forum, using said forum to its purpose, to give an opinion. The developer holds all the power here, and can can silence him at will if Alex chooses to do so. Harrassment this is not. I sure hope the developer cares for all our opinions, and indeed has been responsive to complaints and open to discussions in the past. If you truly think the developer does not care, then why even have a forum and why would you be posting in said forum about the direction of the game?
You act like harassing the developers over artistic decisions means caring about the game, but in fact you’re just demanding that the devs care about you. Buying the game is just you appreciating a product, it does not entitle you to make demands on its creators. If you care so much about the game that you want to improve it, take your free time and make an artwork or a mod. Better yet, buy the game to friends who might like it. But if you want Starsector to be your own thing, go on, the devs kindly left the tools available.
How exactly is he harrassing the developers?We're starting to get really off topic about something that wasn't even my main point, but it wouldn't be polite not to answer your question. Don't take this as mudslinging, but for the sake of the question, here are the examples:
I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.
Luddics have so much potential please do not *** this up so bad
All i'm saying is this new luddic *** is turnung out generic and am offering different examples to how it can be betterSure, implying it's harassment might be a stretch, but what I was trying to say is that this tone and attitude aren't going to get him anywhere. I also wonder how you got the impression that I think that devs don't care, I was trying to showcase the opposite and show Neldonax how he can get his point across.
I'd think that anyspace suit that doesn't mess with space time, nor turn you into some kinda transhuman cyborg unnecessarily would be fine to wear.I'm referring to the game mentioning in a couple places that pilgrims are wearing hand woven fabrics.
I'm referring to the game mentioning in a couple places that pilgrims are wearing hand woven fabrics.
I was thinking, some of factions as they are currently are more of a reflection of current and past times than they are of the future, barring the spacefaring part.
Speaking from a strictly practical point of view, Starsector appears to me to be focused on entertainment. Now it's possible that we will see some narrative experiments from David, but afaik those can easily alienate the audience that isn't looking for them. Therefore I expect the writing to be complementary to gameplay, even if potentially competent on its own.
...comes if you become friendly with the Path as well. You probably wouldn't notice the subtle change from the hostile Luddic theme to the similar neutral one. But the friendly one represents the Pather's view perfectly at that point: they don't see themselves as different from the Church, they are fighting the same holy war against the evil of machines, albeit with different methods. After all, there are no "Pather" and "Church" themes, only the Luddic ones.And this is why I consider all Ludds - Church AND Pathers - more or less evil.
A different situation happens if you befriend the Path, but remain neutral with the Church. You could start seeing the difference in Luddic themes as the Pather's twisted epiphany; that the salvation of the true path elevates one above the ordinary, misguided believer of the Church.
You know, I gotta applaud the devs for making all factions feel naturally ambiguous when it comes to morality, including the darker factions. It makes for a world where I can encounter morally clear characters without feeling like they stick out from their environment. And because they fit into the grey moral ambiance, I can't allow myself to judge them until my last encounter with them when I'm trying to take the narrative seriously. I feel like this makes for a great personal Rorschach test, since you will get to see which ideals you are susceptible to.
The only little complaint I have at this point is that the moral positives of the Tri-Tach, the welcoming liberalism and progressive open-mindedness, aren't displayed well enough. The closest we get is when meeting Gargoyle, we get to see a kind of eccentric that I couldn't personally imagine surviving outside the hi-tech social biome of Tri-Tach worlds. However, the air of untouchability from the character buildup makes Gargoyle seem like a faultless, if erratic mastermind in a ruthless, Darwinistic environment, without seeing how he depends on it to survive. I don't see it as a problem for the character, but as a missed opportunity for the worldbuilding, where Tri-Tach has been consistently portrayed as a borderline villainous faction, even if deservedly.
they just don't want dehumanising technology like unnecessary cybernetics, total automation, non human intelligences controlling us, planet destroying equipment, and things that manipulate space time in unsavoury ways.Come on man! What's life without a few genocidal AI killbots trying to exterminate humanity, or planets being turned into asteroid fields, or a portal to Hell being opened up!?
I thought Asher was LC's Cruor.Cruor = Dissident exiles/slave labor + middle/upper class of loyal people + tolerated black market. Sorry if I'm coming off as nitpicky I just had a very specific idea in mind.
Oh and my (possibly unwanted) opinion on Luddic architecture? Starsector as a setting is, despite everything, actually pretty high-end on the tech scale. Like, a POS duck-tape-is-a-significant-percentile-of-total-structural-mass Pirate Carrier still reliably (well, mostly) uses a whole bunch of tech that to us would be borderline magic.
A 'humble, borderline primitive church' using materials, equipment and techniques literal centuries more advanced than what we have to stretch hundreds upon hundreds of meters into the sky would still be a, well, humble, borderline primitive church.